Venting sexual frustrations

[marklang500]

HI, I'm new. I've been dealing with this issue with my wife for a few years now, and I've never quite put my finger on the problem. But basically it is the same old story: I want sex more often than she does.

On the surface, it seems pretty cut-and-dry...it's nothing new to mankind.

But I am a thinker, and I'm not content to just "deal" with it. I also am not a sicko pervert. I consider myself a normal guy with a healthy sexual perspective.

I could write a whole book on the issues I've faced, but I guess it's probably best to just throw out my thoughts as of right now.

We had sex on Saturday, and then on Sunday I playfully tried to initiate again. She was shocked, because it had only been a day. "Give me a day at least!" she said. I don't typically try the night after having sex, but Sunday was full of laughter and chemistry, and well, It all seemed right. Monday, I tried, Tuesday I tried, Wednesday I tried. Never pushy, never mad. I just went on with the next day as if everything was fine. But in my head it wasn't fine. I felt rejected 4 nights in a row. The first night was OK I guess, because she was right, we did have sex the night before after all.

Sometimes I think she may be oblivious to my advancements. Other times I think she purposfully stays up too late before getting ready for bed so that there "isn't enough time".

Now we are in the situation where I am bitter. And women don't feel attracted to men that are bitter about not getting sex. It's a spiral that pushes intamacy away.

Her solution: stop wanting sex and we'll have sex.
My solution: Stop rejecting me when I want sex and I won't want it an unreasonable amount of time.

I've tried her solution. She doesn't realize it, but I have. Her solution is just an excuse for me to stop wanting sex. The other half of it, the having sex part, only happens once or twice a cycle. Tha's not a soultion. It's an excuse for me to just be content with what she gives me. "Stop wanting sex and then we'll have sex" really just menas "stop wanting sex and we'll have sex about as often as we do now. It just won't bother you anymore."

Something that I've noticed with my own brain, that I wish she understood: If I want sex, and she turns me down (this all is unspoken by the way. I initiate through action or flirtation and she rejects by just going to sleep.) Anyway, If I want sex, and she turns me down, a sort of "doomsday clock" gets started. Every single night after that that we don't have sex is like another rejection. When I am rejected the first time, it's like a raincheck that's only good for 26 hours. I try to redeem it night after night only to get another raincheck. I think 4 or 5 rejections is where I start venting. And venting is bad for my cause!

I think in HER mind, it's not so much a raincheck, but just off the agenda altogether, so I shouldn't be so surprised when I get rejected the next night--on a Tuesday night of all times! Of course nobody has sex on Tuesdays! Right?

But if I don't try for 4 nights at all, and then I try and get rejected, it only really counts as the first rejection. I'm cool with it. Her solution starts to make sense. But then she takes advantage of it. SHe rejects 3 mights in a row ON TOP of the 4 nights off that I didn't try. The doomsday clock speeds up...

The other thing that happens in my crazy head is scheduling. If I know that her period is coming in 8 days, I would like to have sex 2 times before that happens. But it seems as though she purposly delays sex in order to limit it to only once. For me, we could have sex on day 3 and day 6. For her, if we can delay to day 5, she's home free because we never have sex 2 nights in a row, and then the next night is the night before she starts, so it's unreasonable for me to even try.

Same thing applies in other times where we know we can't have sex. Like if we are staying the weekend at her parents house. I know sex is off limits Friday and Saturday night. So I will try on Wednesday and Thursday. If she rejects me both nights, I won't get a wink of sleep Thursday because I am in such disbelief and almost anger that she either doesn't think this through, or that she DOES think this through. Either way I am bitter. And if that happens at the tail end of a 4 night "raincheck rejection parlay" and I will be out of my mind. Laying there rejected on Thursday, not having had sex for 4 days, knowing you won't get to even try again until Sunday, is torture. I don't sleep. Not because I'm not getting sex. I don't sleep because she clearly isn't on the same page as me when it comes to this. And then I question how she feels about me altogether. All this, and she is oblivious to what it does to me.

Now, I take all that emotion, and I cover it up. Because I have tried in the past talking about it, and it makes it worse. Suddenly, sex is in the spotlight. And she hates that. So in essence, she has succeeded in forcing her solution: stop wanting sex and we'll have sex. Except I am still wanting sex. I am just ACTING like I am not wanting sex. Taking dumb "swingmaster" advice on the internet. Teasing and showing indifference to sex. Basically, lying and not being myself.

Just so you know, she is a stay home mom. I provide all the money, AND I do half the dishes, half the laundry, and half of the bathing the children. I'm a good dad. I'm a good husband. I don't party with the guys anymore. I don't go to strip clubs, I don't watch porn. (I don't even masturbate unless sh'es on her period, because I never know when she'll finally want sex.)

Oh, but I never say, "I deserve sex" or surely not "you owe me sex". I really don't ever think that way...that is, not until the sleepless 4th night of rejection. The sex we have is good. Unless she's just faking it. If she is, she's convincing. And my self evaluation is that it IS good. I'm not a premature "E" kind of guy. I just don't get it. Sometimes I catch myself browsing the "enlargement" websites. Do you see what this does to me? I should be more confident than resorting to that.

Uhhg. If I'm a jerk, then let me know. I really feel like I'm not. I just want her to want me as much as I want her. And I HATE feeling like she's avoiding me because that just makes it feel like even when we do have sex, she doesn't really want sex. I wish we were lovers. Not just a married couple that has sex. I don't think she knows the difference. I love her. But when I try to talk about this, she thinks I just love sex.

The part I hate the worst, though, is that all of the above just makes the situation worse.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Hey, Mark. I don't know that I have the solution to your problem, but I wanted to say that as a woman, I don't think you are a jerk at all. It may be that she doesn't have a very high sex drive and can't really understand why you want sex so much. It may be that she's feeling badly about something else entirely and can't get excited for sex. I don't know. Have you tried talking to her, not in the moment of initiating a sexual encounter, about her reasons for not wanting sex much? Has it been like this throughout your relationship?

I don't think that anyone should have sex when they don't want to, but I do think that it's a big part of a relationship and that if one partner is not satisfied there is something to look at. Counseling may even be in order. I know I wouldn't be happy for long without regular sex if I didn't know the reason. Ask your wife to sit down and talk with you honestly about the topic and see what you two can discover together.

I wish you the best of luck. And I hope you get some good advice here.

[JimOfferman]

I sorta skimmed through your post, but the vibe I'm getting here is "I AM RIGHT, SHE IS WRONG!!!"

That's not a very, erhm, fruitful attitude.

Have you considered that you might be going about this the wrong way? You mention that you refrain from pleasuring yourself in the off chance that she might be 'good to go' that night... though, from the sound of it, you might easily do two laps a night, while she doesn't. Not by a stretch.

Why not worry about your own needs first? If you need to jack off, just do it... once your own needs are taken care off, then you can -maybe- start worrying about improving her sexual desires in your favor.

You are the one who is sexually frustrated, but that is not her fault!

[Angela]

Have you talked with her about this, in a neutral, out-of-the-bedroom setting?

[carenkh]

I would be very frustrated, too!

Have you tried really seducing her - not just being flirtatious, but really, really taking care of her - massaging her feet, doing kind things - and, here's the key - not to get sex, but because you love and care for her?

How old are your kids? If they're still nursing, it's possible she's "touched out" by the end of the day, and you may just need to hang in there until the kids don't have such a high need to be held.

Those were my initial thoughts -

[Brien]

Originally Posted by marklang500

...
Just so you know, she is a stay home mom. I provide all the money, AND I do half the dishes, half the laundry, and half of the bathing the children. I'm a good dad. I'm a good husband. I don't party with the guys anymore. I don't go to strip clubs, I don't watch porn. (I don't even masturbate unless sh'es on her period, because I never know when she'll finally want sex.)

Oh, but I never say, "I deserve sex" or surely not "you owe me sex".

Of course you never say it, you're displaying classic Nice Guy behavior. You're making an imaginary contract by being the provider, by doing half the chores, by being a NICE GUY. Naturally, you think that by being good, you will get what you want, sex. Your wife never agreed to that. She probably doesn't understand you think this way.

You have needs, be upfront about them. Forget about trying to earn what you want by being a good husband and good dad, etc. You must say what you want. It'll be a good conversation; she probably has unfulfilled needs too. Be frank with eachother.

For more on nice guy mistakes, read No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover.

[darthangel]

"Start having sex with me, or I'm turning to pornography."

If that doesn't work then masturbation... well it seems to me you have deep-seated beliefs against it, but I suggest you do it for the sake of the harmony in the marriage.

Women, always ungrateful and always demand more from you.

Another tip: MAKE HER MISS YOU. It will leave a vacuum and she will understand your worth.

[marklang500]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I've tried talking about this before, but unfortunatley it always times with a drought. There really isn't a good time to talk about it, and from my experience talking about it just makes it worse for 3 months until the conversation fades away from memory and we can settle back into our old ways (which is a step up from the 3 months of awkwardness).

One big issue is whenever I talk about it, she thinks I just love sex, not her. I do show her in many ways that I love her every day.
As far a massaging her feet, I have. On average once a year. (She's never rubbed my feet) It never leads to sex though. Because if it did, she'd be like "I can't even get a foot massage without you wanting sex".

I don't meant to sound like "I'm right and she's wrong". I can respect and discuss. But she can't do that. Heck, she doesn't have to. Since she is in control of the "commodity", I have to play by her rules. (I am not a rapist).

Sometimes after a week of rejection, she'll say, "You had a rough night sleep tossing and turning last night. What's wrong? Are you stressed at work?"

I'll say, "well, I am feeling a bit rejected. I've wanted sex for the last 4 nights."

She'll say, "Are you kidding, this is all about sex? WIll you just let it go already? I am so tired of this argument. I'm so tired of feeling bad because I just want to go to sleep"....

Then it blows up and settles down over a couple months. I've been trained to not talk about it.

I guess I should talk about it during the good times. But somehow that seems like it would be a slap in the face.

Our youngest is 5. Great kids. As far as her being "touched out", why doesn't she see the importance of touching me? It's alkmost like she says "well, I won't do that and this relationship is not that important for me to worry about you leaving me."

Of course, I would never, and never have, threatened to leave her. But she must be really confident that she can treat me like this without fear.

To be honest, our relationship is perfect in all other regards. She really can't complain about anything and neither can I. We have lots of fun together and our kids. It's just touching, and sex that are lacking. I rub her neck when she's at the computer and I'm looking over her shoulder. I rub her back when we hug after I get home from work. Her hands don't really touch me sometimes when we hug. Just her arms. I swear sometimes I think she just doesn't love me anymore, but she's stuck with me because she has no means to support herself and the kids, and she has no grounds for divorce becasue to all of our friends, we are the greatest couple they know. It's all just feels fake, though, if we aren't lovers.

Now, I may be wrong too. For over-analyzing, for my fixation. WHat do we do if we have to be true to ourselves and we find out that we just aren't sexually compatible?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Counseling!

Will she agree to go?

[kboleski]

Wow, there have been a lot of interesting replies. So, I will also give mine. I do not feel you are being a jerk. You actually are really trying to be understanding. Being a good husband and father is paramount. It seems you are giving enough. I think the problem is with her. It could be that she has needs that are unfulfilled. When that happens in a woman, especially if it is emotional, the desire for sex tanks. She could just have a low sex drive. I bet you she is too serious about sex and can't just relax and have fun. I have been in both mindsets and I tell ya, being relaxed and looking at it that it can be fun is the way to go. If she can't relax, can't forget her day, doesn't feel good about herself, she won't want to have sex. So, you both have to work on figuring out what the problem(s) are.

I understand men need to have sex and that some men think that meeting their needs outside of the relationship is ok, but I have to tell you that that is treading on thin ice. It is only a small step from just a release here or there, to that becoming the way you have your sexual needs met without rejection, fear, or effort. ESPECIALLY if you get into porn. It is erotic and can make the experience enjoyable, but it is also addictive. In cases like yours, if you can't help your wife get to the bottom of her issues, if she can't relax and turn sex into something fun, you will avoid the rejection and hurt by turning to what is easier. Porn in this instance, will usually replace sex with your wife altogether, and that won't help your relationship. Even though your physical needs are being met, your emotional needs are not getting fulfilled. You won't forget that she put you in that position. You will start to resent her for making you have to do this. It just will not help your relationship in the end.

I have already had the wonderful opportunity to discuss this type of thing with the "do what ever you want to do", "do whatever makes you feel good" posters on this forum, so I know I am going to get pummelled, but what I am saying is true for someone that making the right marital relationship choices is important. In the end, those types of decisions will not help your relationship with your wife. Working on the problems is the only way to make it better. You haven't turned to porn because it goes against your nature. I believe you would have already turned to it if you were a lesser man with lesser standards of what being faithful in the marriage means.

I commend you for your honesty. You really are trying to be understanding. But that only works for so long. You have needs that need to be fulfilled, and I am not just talking sexual needs. There are so many other emotional and physical needs that are met by having a close, intimate, sexual relationship with your wife. You HAVE to tell her that you have needs and that this is important to you. You HAVE to tell her that you can't go through the rest of your life unfullfilled with your sexual life. You HAVE to tell her that you want and need it more and everything that comes along with it. If she is a good, understanding wife, she will realize that she is asking you to give up sex. She will also realize that something like sex can't just be on her terms. If she realizes those things, she will probably realize her responsibility to fulfill your needs. Besides, she doesn't want you to find it somewhere else. I have gone on long enough. I hope my take on it helps you. I am a woman, so don't think it is impossible for your wife to understand. It might take a lot of work, but if you can both attack it positively, it might just be rewarding.

[kboleski]

Ask her if she is still in love with you. Tell you you seriously think that she doesn't love you anymore. She is wrong to tell you it is all about sex or use that as an excuse to justify her lack of wanting to do it. Of course sex is an important part of a marriage, but it isn't everything. If she is controlling the "commodity" because she isn't in love with you, doesn't desire you, etc... you deserve to know the truth then. You don't have to threaten anything, but you deserve the honest facts, the honest truth. Only then, will you be able to make different decisions for yourself. She is being stupid to think that if she just pulls the blanket over her eyes, the problem will go away. If she acts like sex isn't important, then it won't be important to you is selfish and disrespecting your basic needs.

She is in denial. She knows it isn't "all about sex" or "all you want is sex". That is how she is getting away with it and forcing you away. The fact that she doesn't want to touch you is an important one. Ask her why. It is time to have that serious conversation with her. Believe me, she has to know it will come some day. You can't continue to sacrifice your own needs for her selfishness. She can't continue to not meet your needs when SHE KNOWS it is her responsibility and she should be taking care of you in every way a wife should take care of you. She is stupid then to think that she doesn't want to have sex, so you can leave if she has no means to support herself. That is crazy thinking. Who thinks like that? You have to have that serious discussion with her and let her know that you deserve better and that you are serious. Be confident that you are not wrong here and that you deserve for your needs to be met. To me, this isn't a case of making someone have sex when they don't want to. This is a case of the wife not giving you sex because she is selfish and doesn't want to and you deserve better consideration.

[marklang500]

We've talked about counseling before. She had her own run in couseling (non-marrital) during post-partum depression 4 years ago. (can-of-worms...I won't go on about it, though it's probably all connected)

The problem with couseling is, things are going pretty good right now. And it's not like we don't have sex. We do, 2 or 3 times a month. She "hangs her hat" on that fact. So it is ME who is unreasonable.

If I had my druthers, we'd have sex 3 times a week,(6-8 times a cycle). Why am I so fixated on the quantity? That's just my body. I know what I want. That may be unreasonable. But for her, a well planned raincheck scheme will get her down to 2 or 3 times.

You are right about her not just having fun with it. It is serious. Sometimes she reminds me a a male preying mantis. She doesn't want to for some reason, but eventually when we do, it is great and explosive. I'm like "why don't you want to do that all the time?"

She gets mad if I pinch her butt in the afternoon. She doesn't like me to think of her in a sexual way. But then we have sex and she's suddenly a sexual being. It's like bi-polar sexuality or something! It's off or it's on. And it's only ON during sex itself.

I'll try to talk with her. But it's tough. RIght now I'm on day 5 without sex when I originally wanted it 4 days ago. I'm hopeful for tonight, so I don't want to get all heavy on the talking! On and on it goes....

Should I tell her after dinner that I "want her tonight"? You know, the direct approach? Or should I open the can of worms and tell her about my sexual frustrations?

[Angela]

For me, the best warm-up starts long before physical contact. Just sudden startling contact, like pinching my butt, is a huge turn-off for me -- pinching or going straight for an erogenous zone is different from a passing caress or kiss, though. You might want to try heating her up psychologically, by making her feel very desired without making a demand for sex. Make a phone call, leave her a note, take her out on an ultra-romantic date, the aim of which is to let her know that you find her totally sexy and you feel like the luckiest man in the world to be married to her. Sometimes the biggest turn-on for a woman is feeling desired and desirable, and strangely, just making an overture for sex does not provide that feeling. Funny, huh? It probably would for a man, right? But a woman loves to hear the words, and to receive the gestures, and to really feel her man's desire (not mere lust, but desire) for her, and that can really get her juices flowing.

You might want to suggest a night of high-school style play -- that is, make out with a rule of no penetration of any kind. See how hot you can get each other, and have fun teasing her -- you get to be the powerful partner this time, because in high school the girl got to decide how far to go, but this time YOU have set the rules -- you are in charge.

[Sanity Panda]

This rainchecking scheme doesn't sound very effective, in fact... when you start asking several times in a row, It becomes so obvious what you are after. Perhaps doing checks more spaced (randomly- not every 3rd day or such) out would be better?

Counselling sounds like a good idea. The way you describe her, it's almost as if she still has hangs up with sex and sexual image.

[marklang500]

The rainchecking scheme is entirely in my own head. She never says "how about a raincheck?" . It's in my head that she's putting it off by a day. It's in her head that she's just putting it off. No warranty is expressed or implied that the urgency for the following night is increased in her mind.

You are right. I end up after one thing. She sees I'm after one thing. Intamacy is killed. It would have been better to just have sex when I initiated the first time....you know, when the intamacy WAS there!!! By rejecting me it is like popping a balloon. An intamacy balloon. Having sex the next night just can't happen with a popped balloon. The focus shifts. The paradigm shifts. So much for the chemistry.

I swear, if women are in a good relationship, no abuse, and no addictions, good advice would be to 'just say yes'. Keep the balloon from popping.

I'm just really sad. Thanks for all your replies. I'll keep an eye on this thread. For now I have to go. Thanks again!

[Bitsy]

marklang500:

This is a sad situation and I have 0 experience and 0 knowledge about relationships of any kind involving sex. But I want to commend you, because I am surprised and very impressed with you, because you are a man who is not getting sex in a marriage and who has not cheated and refuses to cheat. That your wife thinks you want her just for sex is unbelievable. If you read other posts I've made, that very issue is one I have too.

IMO, you have to work this out with your wife. It is your wife's responsibility to tell you if you are not meeting her needs in some way. I wouldn't give much mind to people on a forum guessing what the problem is with her or with how you are relating with her. If she chooses not to tell you what is going on with her, that is her choice and her perogative. She must then deal with the consequences, your response. For your part, you let her know in as good and as sincere a heart-to-heart as possible what the problem is (get in touch with your love for her before this talk). Find out what she is willing to do to fix the problem and once you know, you respond. It's a relationship between you and your wife and you can only work with what she gives you to work with. If you decide it's not worth it to stay with her, make sure you get divorced first...so you won't ruin your good track record with fidelity.

I want to commend you. It's a shame I had not found someone as devoted and faithful as you before it got too late. Don't ingratiate yourself too much. I think your wife has a problem relating to sex and her own sexuality, even in a marriage with a faithful man.

Good luck.

[kboleski]

I came back because I felt the need to write a little in support of your wife, and when I read Angela's post about warming up first and the different ways to warm up, it fit in with what I was thinking.

It really does appear that she has a problem with being comfortable with herself. That also means a lack of confidence. And more, anyway, if she is not getting an emotional needs met (you may not realize) she really can't feel comfortable opening up to sex, opening up, taking her clothes off or be comfortable with what should be normal sexuality.

Angela said a lot of great things. If she is emotionally shut down and not feeling the love and ______ (you name it), she isn't going to be open to a pinch on the butt, or a hey there seductive look or caress. That is for women who are secure and for a relationship that has a healthy sex life. When you do that, she knows what that means. That you are going to want sex. So, she instantly closes down and forces you away. Because sex is the last thing she wants. Again, it is her. But, please think about what you could be doing (criticizing) or not doing (accepting, supportive, whatever,) to close her down and not meet her emotional needs. That said, you can't give it to her. She has to rise to the occasion and meet her own needs. She is probably failing in that department and really unrealistically needing you to fulfil her obligations to herself. And because you are not (can not) do that, she is shifting blame to you and turning off even more to you. Am I making any sense?

So, that means that there is a psychological aspect to this. I have some of these tendencies, so I understand maybe a little better than someone who doesn't experience it. It is in MY court, to make it better. My husband can help make it fun, and be loving and supportive and that REALLY HELPS.

But, you can start to make a difference by doing what may seem like little things, a special thinking of you call, leaving a little love note, sending her a little surprise in the mail, etc. Making her feel romantic is a hard thing to do, but try. She has a hard time feeling romantic because she feels bad about something about her self or in her life. Always do things, show her that you do find her incredibly sexy. It will take time, but I bet you if she can let go and trust in your love and believe that you find HER sexy, thinks will get better. Making a woman feel desired is more than a pinch on the butt, OK? Other actions speak louder than words or a pinch on the butt. If you can get her more confident in herself, and stay positive, keep it fun, supportive of her lack of confidence (maybe without letting her know that is what you are doing - just do it) you will see the sex kitten start to come out.

[kboleski]

OK, I thought I was stop for a while, but I have to say, YEAH!!!! to what Bitsy said. Perfect. If it means anything, we would like to help you, at least support you to help you not feel so sad, if that is possible. Please stay in contact with us.

[ThoughtAddict]

One thing that jumped out at me was your explanation of how she puts off sex... sleep. You feel like she spends too much time doing other things before getting ready for bed, where you want to have sex. Part of the problem may be that she's not really excited about having sex because it isn't exciting. I'm not saying that you need to start groping her in the middle of her pilates workout, but it does sound like there needs to be a healthy dose of desire.

Angela's advice was excellent (as always). Men and women do get mentally excited differently. I'm almost embarrassed to explain it this way, but it is the difference between gasoline and diesel engines. With guys, a quick spark is often all it takes. For women, there's gotta be some kind of warm up or else there won't be an explosion.

Take a day, preferably one where you're not sexually frustrated, and use that day to make your wife feel like the most desired creature on the planet. Take every action you can think of to make her feel that you love every inch of body, every ounce of her personality, and every thought she has. Do this without ever making a sexual advance. A tender kiss, sure. Caressing the cheek or arm, fine. Your goal is to let her know that you love, respect, and desire her. Don't do anything that says that you love the feeling of sex, or the experience of sex, or anything that centers around your pleasure. It is obvious that you love this woman. Do all the little things to show her.

[marklang500]

Thanks kboleski, Bitsy, and Angela. I know what you mean by the warm-up. I do try. It has gotten to the point now where whatever I do is just "trying to get sex, again".

I used to bring her flowers on a friday every other month or so for just no reason. Until one time she verbally connected it with the sex that we would be having later that night. "Ohh flowers! Hmmm...I guess you want sex tonight, huh..." From happy to suspicious in 5.4 seconds.

She went out of her way to make certain we didn't have sex that night, because she wanted to show me that flowers don't equal sex. (an unspoken lesson, anyway...she didn't actually tell me that)

SO that whole thing turned me off of buying flowers. So I guess she was right. No sex, no flowers. I wasn't meaning it to be like that, but it just kinda turned into that. So now flowers have a bit of a stigma. Once we had sex on a thursday, and I brought the flowers on friday. She was like "gee thanks. I guess I know what I did right". I was like "I always bring flowers on friday!" and she was like "but this time it's different, right?"

I'm painting a pretty ugly picture here. It's not all bad like this. She's really a great girl and I love her for good reasons. I'm picking on our one weakness. It's just physical intamacy that's the problem.

Thanks again for your support. I'll check back in sometime.

[Sanity Panda]

Just a crazy idea that I had... especially given the title.

Abstain from sex for a while. The idea is to get rid of the idea that romantic actions are there purely for the sake of sex, that it's possible to be romantic without being sexual. Afterwards you'd have to deal with the idea of why sex can't be romantic for two people.

Does she not enjoy sex?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

It sounds like she has some real aversion to sex for some reason, and even some resentment. I don't think that this issue will be solved unless you get to the bottom of that.

I'm not sure when you'll see this, but I'll ask again in case you missed it before:

Is this a recent development or has it always been like this?

It really sounds like there's something there, much more than her just denying you out of coldness or to be contrary.

[derrick555]

I read the first few posts but just skimmed through the rest. Look, my wife and I have a very similar issue that you're going through. Except sometimes she wants it constantly, then I'm burned out. It's like our schedules are off or something.

When I'm in the mood and she's not, I masturbate. Sometimes a few times in one night. When she's in the mood and I'm not, she masturbates.

If you're really not okay with this, then talking about it would really be a good thing to try. Good luck!

[Angela]

Mark, please forgive me for what may be seen as presumption since you've posted only a few times, but I have gotten a sense from you and my intuition has been on fire lately, so I'd like to share it with you.

It seems to me that there's a kernel of a way of being in people's posts that shows up in a larger way in "real life" -- how you are here is often how you are in life in a way that you can't see because what I call your "gremlin" -- your habitual thought patterns -- wants to keep you thinking that "that's just the way it is." For everyone, I mean, not just you.

Pardon the pun, but you seem to be half-in and half-out. You're clearly a very loving man who is committed to his marriage, and yet there seems to be a big part of you that isn't willing to go all the way (again, pardon the pun!). Are there other areas of your life in which you have one foot out the door, without letting anyone see that? Maybe without even admitting it to yourself? Is it possible that in this issue your wife is your mirror buddy -- that she is showing you something about yourself that limits full engagement? On the occasions that you do make love with your life, how present are you with her -- are you actively and dynamically and generously listening to her body and to what she says with her mouth?

Just something to look at.

[Mewwy]

Hello Mark, I really empathize with your situation. From a female point of view, I see nothing wrong about what you've been doing. You are a patient husband

I don't really have any solutions on this, but I hope to provide possible reasons why your wife isn't responsive to your needs:

First, women need lots of criteria fulfilled, such as from emotional trust, to physical turn on, to security, to good techniques in bed, in order to really enjoy sex...maybe she cannot define what is lacking for herself.

Secondly, for many women, sex requires a greater deal of "sacrifice." To paraphrase from Christian Carter's analysis on women's mentality on sex, women often feel "conquered" by men in the act of sex. This ignites the biological instinct to stay loyal to a man and proceed to nurture his children. This implies a lot of effort. Therefore women may feel like sex itself is a lot of effort due to this very subtle and underlying mentality.

Or maybe it's simply that getting physically excited takes a lot of effort, or tending to your needs requires a lot of energy, or doing some compromising positions (being blunt here ) is tiring for her. Of course, it's not your fault, but you have lots of work to do or changes to you need to adapt to, since it's possible that she doesn't feel rewarded, emotionally or physically, after all that work.

Third, your wife thinks sex is only for your own good. From the flower example, she only choose to believe that you do things to exchange for sex. Tell her that's not the real value of sex. Sex is mutual, not some trade. Sex should be for her own good too. So far it seems she cannot/refuse to benefit from sex.

Fourth, deep down in her heart, she doesn't realize how important sex is to you.

Finally, if your wife naturally have low sex drive, it will remain really difficult for her to be responsive to your needs. It'll be ideal if she shows more affection or care about your needs more, but she can't do much sexually. Imagine if you have to eat more when you are completely full. It will make you more disgusted than happy. She may feel "constantly full."

I really hope this will somewhat help you. I will pray that your frustration will be dissolved.

[SomeRandomGuy]

A couple things jumped out at me while reading through this thread.

First, has the frequency with which you have sex changed? Did you have sex 3 times a week earlier in the relationship and only recently she has started being less interested? Or has this always been the pattern? This is an important piece of the puzzle. If her sex drive has declined recently, then this seems to indicate that something has changed, and that change has caused the two of you to be out of sync with your sexual needs. If this has been the pattern for your entire relationship it seems that you have always had different sexual needs.

Secondly, I have been in similar situations before and think I recognize a pattern. You have received advice to try "warming her up" before initiating sex (or without sex even being on the agenda). This is good advice, but I see where it could be a problem in your situation. Lets say that you have sex on day 1, then on day 2 you try to initiate again and are turned down. Then on day 3 you try warming her up, she seems to enjoy it but it doesn't lead to sex. So on day 4 you try initiating sex again and she turns you down. So on day 5 you try warming her up again, then try initiating sex and she turns you down again (likely making a comment about how you were doing those things just to get sex). So in this scenario, not only have you been 4 days without sex, but have gone through the extra effort on two of those days with no results. I can see where this rejection would feel even worse, and where it could lead to some resentment. I can also see where the attempts at warming her up will be short lived if you start to feel that they are just a waste of time. This is a tricky situation, because she might be enjoying the attention, and see you stopping that as a punishment for her not giving you sex. Whereas you may see it as her not being appreciative, and it just being a waste of your time.

I don't think that following this advice is a waste of time, and there is a good chance that it may work. Just wanted to put out a disclaimer that I can see the potential for it backfiring and complicating the issue.

I agree very strongly with what others have said. It sounds as though there is some larger issue that needs to be resolved. Perhaps if you could talk with her outside of the context of sex. Explain that you know something is wrong, because her sex drive has decreased. Explain that you are not brining it up because you want sex, rather because you love her and want to help resolve any issues that are having a negative affect on her.

This situation sounds to me like a downward spiral. This can't be good for your relationship, and if something doesn't change I suspect it will get worse. I don't think your expectations are out of line. If your needs continue to go unfulfilled I suspect you may either find a way to fulfill those needs in some other way, or will at the very least be resentful and miserable. On the flip side, if she were to be convinced to give you sex more often she would likely feel resentful of feeling forced to do it, and this might create even less of a sexual desire than she has at the moment. I think the solution to this starts with communication. The two of you are obviously coming at this from totally different angles, and I suspect that neither fully understands the position of the other. Until you can get her to sit down and talk this through with you I think it will be difficult to solve.

[The Cloud]

I'm by no means an expert in this area, but have you offered to, uh, "service" her "free of charge"? That may impart on her that it's not sex that you want so much as it is intimacy with her (that seems to be at least half your issue, is not feeling desired yourself). At least this way you can find out if it's just her sex drive that is low, or if it's more about her perception of how you go about sex. She may not realize that you equate sex with closeness. If you let her know that you feel as if she is pushing you away emotionally, and that it's not so much the lack of sex as it is the rejection that bothers you, then she may be more able to understand. Perhaps she will be more able to relate to you if you make it an intimacy issue rather than a sex issue.

[Erock]

I know you guys favor the emotional stuff, but I think biologically women are not wired to want sex as much as guys. I'm not a woman so I have no idea, but considering how many pregnancies women would ensue without birth control if they had sex as much as guys it makes sense. On the other hand, I think guys are wired to masturbate to keep the most fertile sperm ready to inseminate women. So that would be my suggestion.

Erock

[m18pak]

I know absolutely nothing about this sort of thing, but I wanted to help so I did a google search and I found this website:

Super Sex Power: Magnetism

Good luck.

[Revolution]

My God! You Marry her... and then whats the thanks you get? She wont even have sex with you!!!

LOL!

Seriously though, it is patently obvious that she don't want it? So... why do you?