What do woman look for in a man?

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

Yeah you interpreted that pretty good! Real,yeah...like a guy who lets his insecurities show. But,ironically,thats probably why i tend to like bad boys because i know deep down they ARE real (i mean,obviously EVERYONE is real),i just want to dig down to that part and get him to trust me enough to expose it. I want to work for it.

Here's a good analogy. You're walking through a field of flowers and you want to pick one. All the flowers are beautiful,in full bloom,waving in the wind practically begging for you to pick them. I'm the girl who looks for the flower that is a little bit smaller than the others,that hasnt fully bloomed yet,was stepped on a few times,and is afraid that,in the shadow of all the other flowers,he will never be able to bloom and never be seen as beautiful. But i find this flower,pick it,and take care of it,knowing that soon it will completely bloom and be thankful that i saved it,out of ALL the flowers,i chose to believe in the one no one else was willing to save.

Damn that was beautiful if i do say so myself!

Just from what you've said here, I've dated women like yourself on more than one occasion. It's always been a good relationship, a good mix (not that I'm trying to hit on you, btw). They appreciate me for being a man, if that makes any sense. They want to be a feminine woman in a relationship and me to be the masculine man ("a man's man" type thing).

In my experience one of two reason's caused the relationship to come to an end. One is that whole clingy thing you mentioned. I start being a ♥♥♥♥♥ in other words. The other reason is that she becomes too controlling (smothering). To go along with your analogy, if you don't give your flower some water and a place in the sunshine, it dies. Sometimes it dies even when you do. Either way, you can't make it do anything. All you can do is create the best conditions and see what happens.

That's just my experience and also I could be totally off about who you are. Not trying to put you in a box or anything.

[Bitsy]

Hasn't there already been a thread like this? Or is this it?

What traits do woman look for in a man?
And
What traits do woman hate finding in men?

I'm going to ignore everything that has been written in this thread until now, so I can delve into my heart and imagination and find my own answer...

Honesty.
Wisdom and common sense.
Fidelity.
Backbone, strong moral backbone.
High moral standards and principles (that match my own).
Has an idea of sex and what it should be that matches my own.
Has an idea of love between a man and a woman that matches my own.
Truth as his life compass.
A poetic mind.
Profound.
Emotionally intelligent.
Compassionate.
Increasingly self-aware.
Working on himself as a person.
Treats others respectfully, no matter what the situation.
Respects himself.
Priorities and values that match my own.
Devoted.
Tender and loving towards me.
Affectionate.
Affectionately protective and caring.
Loves me.
Understands me...

...sigh...

[Mr_A]

So women want a man who is strong, but not rude; kind, but not weak; bold, but not a bully; is thoughtful, but not lazy; is humble, but not timid; proud, but not arrogant; has humor, but without folly.
Edited quote by Jim Rohn

You dont need to be a prick or a wuss to be a Man

[september]

My SO has been both strong and weak, brilliant and forgetful, proud and humble, funny and serious.

I look for dynamic people who aren't afraid to change. Laying out the requisite personality traits for a man or a woman isn't going to help you find a right person for you. Then you're effectively looking for a static person. I think it takes intuitive experimentation to find out which people best complement each other, because they tend to showcase certain elements and play down others... but this changes. What's great is when you find someone who changes naturally with you, and whom you change naturally with. You both grow together.

The chauvinist snips toward the women who have posted so far have not gone unnoticed. Most people don't bother to do intensive introspection about every area of their lives, both men and women. Locating one contradiction in a post doesn't necessitate your superiority over women, nor does it invalidate everything the poster tried to contribute to the thread in the maybe 15 minutes it took to write the post. This kind of pseudo-rationalist d**kwaving wouldn't stand outside these forums, where sexism is sanctioned in this bizarre ritualistic pseudo-religious masculine/feminine divide.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by callum828

Look at the guys women actually date and have sex with. That's what they want in a guy.

Well i didnt have sex with 99% of the guys i dated. And the one i did have sex with,i hated it,and that led me down the road to leaving him. Not because sex was important (it WASNT) but because that helped sign and seal the deal,i didnt like him much but was too used to being with him to see that.

And i dont know if its fair to look at the last guy a woman dated...because obviously she didnt want him otherwise she'd still be with him.

[driven1]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I'm not a girl, but..

One thing that occurs to me, is a guy should not change or mold his character, in order to fit what pleases, a (typical) woman. He should live his life, and be the person he wants to be, for himself; not to make anyone else happy.

A woman can sense when a man is adapting himself to her. To fit in with her needs and wants. If she senses him changing to fit her, she'll rightly conclude that he lacks integrity and inner strength. She's more likely to want a man who has his act together, and has internal strength, knows himself, knows his own mind, and cannot be manipulated.

So, really, I'd say the whole precept of this thread is flawed.

Don't be the kind of man that you think women will want, be the kind of man, that YOU, will feel proud to be. Women can then, either take you or leave you, that's up to them.

Exactly. Women want a man with high social value, which equates to a man with high self-esteem, which is revealed not so much by his appearance, but by his behavior. A man with high self-esteem doesn't need approval from anybody, he is in control of his own world and his own sense of purpose. But it's not in a "screw you, man, I don't care what you think cuz you suck anyhow!!" sense, but in a "hey, if you don't like me, that's completely fine. I love you just the same." sense.

Furthermore, he seeks not to raise his own self-esteem further -- he doesn't need any more! -- but to lift that of those around him. He's not arrogant; rather, he's so convinced of his own value, that he has no need to show it to others. Indeed, he might conceal it so that those around him don't feel lesser by comparison. He's so incredibly strong inside that he can let his weaknesses show, bare, without fear of losing respect or value in another's eyes. He can cry, in public, without feeling self-conscious.

His friends love him, and he loves them back double-fold. Heck, anyone he meets loves him because he makes people feel better about themselves. He makes people happy not because he needs them to like him, but because he genuinely wants them to be happy. His motivation is not one of neediness, but rather love. He raises their self-esteem without a trace of concern for his own, because in terms of self-esteem, he is wealthy beyond belief.

I'm convinced that if you can be this man, you will have not only more women, INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL women, than you know what to do with, but you will have more great friends, more success in life, however you yourself might define that, and more happiness than you ever thought possible.

And, frankly, if you can be that man, you deserve it.

Re-reading that, it sounds like I'm channeling Jesus or Buddha or something! How ironic is it that this pseudo-religious philosophy of Love Everybody stems directly from the atheistic realization that THIS ONE LIFE is all you get, that there is no eternal bliss waiting after you die, so you'd better make the best of it and help others do the same.

[september]

Originally Posted by driven1

Exactly. Women want a man with high social value, which equates to a man with high self-esteem, which is revealed not so much by his appearance, but by his behavior.

...I'm involved with someone with comparatively low social value. But there are other values people can see in one another. Sure, if you have high social value, you'll attract a woman... with high social value. That doesn't imply that women go crazy over social value -- it just means that according to evolutionary modules, people tend not to date out of their respective leagues. This has been the result of a few biological studies I've seen. To assume that the center of womanly desire is social value is to entirely misunderstand desire, in what one might call a chauvinistic way.

Originally Posted by driven1

A man with high self-esteem doesn't need approval from anybody, he is in control of his own world and his own sense of purpose. But it's not in a "screw you, man, I don't care what you think cuz you suck anyhow!!" sense, but in a "hey, if you don't like me, that's completely fine. I love you just the same." sense.

Furthermore, he seeks not to raise his own self-esteem further -- he doesn't need any more! -- but to lift that of those around him. He's not arrogant; rather, he's so convinced of his own value, that he has no need to show it to others. Indeed, he might conceal it so that those around him don't feel lesser by comparison. He's so incredibly strong inside that he can let his weaknesses show, bare, without fear of losing respect or value in another's eyes. He can cry, in public, without feeling self-conscious.

His friends love him, and he loves them back double-fold. Heck, anyone he meets loves him because he makes people feel better about themselves. He makes people happy not because he needs them to like him, but because he genuinely wants them to be happy. His motivation is not one of neediness, but rather love. He raises their self-esteem without a trace of concern for his own, because in terms of self-esteem, he is wealthy beyond belief.

I'm convinced that if you can be this man, you will have not only more women, INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL women, than you know what to do with, but you will have more great friends, more success in life, however you yourself might define that, and more happiness than you ever thought possible.

And, frankly, if you can be that man, you deserve it.

I like this. It describes well how I think about my own life right now. Only I attract the men.

[Mr_A]

Originally Posted by september
This kind of pseudo-rationalist d**kwaving wouldn't stand outside these forums, where sexism is sanctioned in this bizarre ritualistic pseudo-religious masculine/feminine divide.

If I could make an observation you don’t like to be labelled, you love control and I believe your Pissed Off, correct me if im wrong
You use words such sexism to describe this “bizarre ritualistic pseudo-religious masculine/feminine divide".
Sexism is related to gender, masculinity and femineity is not determined by gender. In the Gay and Lesbian world men and woman still follow masculinity and femineity principles. But ordinarily the nature of human beings is that women are core feminie beings and men are core masculine beings. Why? this is what creates a passionate relationship.
Saying this no one is totally masculine or totally feminie, a health person has both feminie and masculine traits but they known what their core is and they work and live from there.

[september]

Originally Posted by Mr_A

But ordinarily the nature of human beings is that women are core feminie beings and men are core masculine beings. Why? this is what creates a passionate relationship.

This, along with the ad hominem comments, misses the point of what I was saying in the meat of the post. I think it's useless to go with the core conception of masculine and feminine. I see it broken all the time.

I'm not mad at the concept, though I think it's wrong. I'm frustrated that it's being abused to make fun of women, by way of bits like these:

Originally Posted by cylon

Take everything the women say they want in a guy, do the opposite, and you're set.

Originally Posted by blazer1

What woman want is a man who is the total opposite of what they need. They are sexually attracted to men who are selfish, arrogant, cocky ... basically more masculine.

Originally Posted by callum828

For some bizzare reason, women never tell the truth when you ask them this. Ask a woman if she likes a guy who is rich. She will either say no or give some euphemism for rich like 'hard-working', very rarely will a woman be honest about it. Yet if you look at who women marry, money is a huge factor.

...

Here's an idea. Start a new thread, and ask any women on the board to describe their last boyfriend, completely honestly, warts and all, without trying to sanitise the description. Your answer is what women want.

They're not directly hurtful things... they're just shoving words into women's mouths that most thinking women wouldn't agree to. Making generalizations like these are disastrous. They're the result of shallow thinking and the misinterpretation of the distinctions being made. If women are unsure about what they want in a man, mightn't it be because women change, as well as men? I think the "we're different, so I'll blame it on that" argument parallels the "God of the gaps" argument in many ways -- where if we can't explain this or that argument, it must be a reason God exists.

Now, I'm a big advocate of discernment. It's not that I want to sanitize thought, and that whatever you say is fine as long as it's not sexist. People can be non-sexist and wrong, and people are often sexist but right about other things. But when making distinctions in the ways men and women think and act rides down the slippery slope into stereotyping, it confuses and conflates what issues you're actually referring to. And it happens a lot in here because Steve and Erin "went there" on the gender issue.

Is that a bit more cool-headed for you?

[Apple Eye]

Good points, September. I agree with you. That's all I have to say.

[cylon]

September--I stand by my lighthearted comment. I enjoyed writing it and I enjoyed your response to it. Grouping all those quotes together helped to tell the story better.

[driven1]

Originally Posted by september

...I'm involved with someone with comparatively low social value. But there are other values people can see in one another.

I think we may be using different definitions of "social value"? By "social value" I don't mean "wealth" or "class status". Rather, I means "attractiveness to the opposite sex". A woman's social value, her attractiveness to men on a gut, animalistic level is determined by her physical appearance.** A man's attractiveness to a woman, again on an animalistic level, is determined by his behavior.

For example: Are you attracted to the person that you're with? (By "attracted", I mean on a gut, animalistic, I-wanna-jump-ur-bones level.) Yes? Then that person HAS high social value to you, by (my) definition. Conversely, the arrogant rich prick who treats service people like crap, who has very few friends (because people don't like him!), is super-defensive about everything and always cutting other people down... he has LOW social value and, hence, is not attractive despite his wealth and class. I hope that makes sense.

Originally Posted by september

Sure, if you have high social value, you'll attract a woman... with high social value. That doesn't imply that women go crazy over social value -- it just means that according to evolutionary modules, people tend not to date out of their respective leagues. This has been the result of a few biological studies I've seen. To assume that the center of womanly desire is social value is to entirely misunderstand desire, in what one might call a chauvinistic way.

I feel like we're talking past each other here based on semantics, i.e., how one defines "social value". Maybe I should have used "attractiveness", but that's so easily confused with "physical attractiveness" -- and that's only true for men's attraction to women.

I hope I'm not belaboring the point, but I want to be clear: I'm certainly not implying that women go for rich guys, for example. An insecure rich guy will have massive trouble getting women. It's almost worse to be rich if you're insecure, actually -- it's like, "You have all this money and cool possessions and you're STILL not happy with yourself?? Wow, you must really be rotten on the inside..." Now, I'd argue that very secure guys tend to be more successful with life in general, and are therefore more likely to achieve financial success, but the reverse is not necessarily true. Also, having sufficient money can certainly help drive a man's attractive behavior -- for example, you're less likely to freak out on a friend who owes you money or get stressed out and snippy because your rent is coming due. In terms of gut-level female attraction, though, the money itself is generally irrelevant -- it's about the guy's behavior itself. (Except for gold-diggers, but I'm assuming decent, emotionally honest women here.)

As far as dating within one's league, yes I completely agree, but for reasons I won't get into here cuz this is already a novel. Maybe food for a seperate thread?

Originally Posted by september

I like this. It describes well how I think about my own life right now. Only I attract the men.

Rock on, you sound like a solid person. I'm definitely trying, myself, and I feel like I've made some good progress lately. I've found that the closer I get to this ideal, the more successful I am with women -- and *dramatically* so. (I'd love to share stories, but they would be perceived as bragging/arrogance and thus not be well-received.***) Lemme just say: The wonderful person I'm currently dating would have been way out of my league just a couple years ago. A real part of me STILL thinks she's out of my league, to be perfectly honest. I'm still having some trouble accepting this new reality for myself, and simply thinking about it has brought me to tears more than once.

If I may share my own experience... Just a couple years ago, I had more money, faster car, nicer apartment, etc., but hot women wanted nothing to do with me. I was shut down so quick my head spun. Or if I did get a phone number, they wouldn't return my calls. That's changed, dramatically, and the only improvement has been in my own behavior. I was massively insecure on the inside, and it showed. Women saw right through it, so I simply was not very attractive to them. I understand that now. I just hate that I'm discovering this so late in life.

** That's shallow, and that sucks, but that's just how us guys are wired. I wish I could lust after a physically unattractive girl, because the outside shouldn't make a bit of difference, and there really are some incredible women out there that just are not physically attractive. But it does matter to the lizard brain, and I've hurt some very sweet girls by denying that truth. Never again.

Side observation: For all the flack that men give women for being "irrational" or whatever... well, I COMPLETELY disagree. I think it's *extremely* rational to judge a man by his behavior, and, conversely, it makes zero sense to judge a woman by her appearance, at least in a modern context. But evolution made us what we are, deep down. (So, hey, women, you can't take total credit for it!! ) I think any real change will be a long time coming, as in thousands of years.

*** I wish we could just have academic discussions about this stuff without everybody's egos getting involved, but people are people after all... Not talking about you in particular, september, but about this forum in general -- people are really touchy when it comes to analyzing social behavior. (I know why, I think, and maybe it'd be good fodder for another discussion.) But it makes real life discussions on the subject almost impossible without destroying friendships.

[Mr_A]

Originally Posted by driven1
Not talking about you in particular, september, but about this forum in general -- people are really touchy when it comes to analyzing social behavior.

Not touchy, conviction and passionate. touchiness comes from a place of irrationality.

Originally Posted by september
I'm not mad at the concept, though I think it's wrong.

Well, straighten me out
Hey im all about finding floors in my philosophy, how can it be improved?, whats wrong with it?

Originally Posted by september
I'm frustrated that it's being abused to make fun of women, by way of bits like these:

You can put all these quotes down to ignorance,
The irony is that you love putting these people back in line. You didnt get as strong as you are from just tolerating these people. Next time one of these dropkicks says something thats borderline retarded, Just look at it as a chance to refine your skill.
Just say:
KEEP TALKIN, KEEP TALKIN, IM GONNA MESS YOU UP!!!!

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

But i find this flower,pick it,and take care of it,knowing that soon it will completely bloom and be thankful that i saved it,out of ALL the flowers,i chose to believe in the one no one else was willing to save.

I dunno, RockChick. In my experience, people ultimately resent being saved. They will end up thinking you have a Jesus complex. And if a man can't save himself, you will ultimately not respect him.

I strongly suspect that you are talking about what in my experience is the most common female fantasy: The Diamond in the Rough (tm). This plays out in many ways, including:

1) I'm not worthy of a diamond, so I will find one that needs a little work and polish it up myself (diamonds are the hardest substance known to man. They aren't easy to polish).

2) He will be eternally grateful to me for saving him (good luck with that!)

3) He will always need me (maybe so, but he will hate himself for needing you and hate you for making him dependent on you).

4) I will feel great about myself because I have swooped in and Made A Difference (for who? Not for him -- he didn't think enough of himself to be a self-made man. It's for you -- he owes you godess-worship).

What is wrong with good boys, anyway? Saves you a lot of trouble and alot of responsibility that isn't really yours anyway. What is it about good boys that puts you off?

--Bob

PS: There is a REASON no one else was willing to save that flower. Hint: it isn't because they fail to see the value in the flower, or because they lack your huge capacity for compassion.

[pterodactyl]

Originally Posted by Mr_A

What traits do woman look for in a man?
And
What traits do woman hate finding in men?

This is an opportunity for woman to enlighten the average Joe

I'll happily tell you, from my limited perspective, as I am not able to speak for all women.

When I was dating and first met my husband, the general personality and physical traits I was looking for in men included the following: friendly and agreeable, honesty, integrity, actions match his words, actively engaged in life (e.g. some endeavor that he was passionate about and devoted to such as his work, education, art, music, etc.), demonstrated respect and kindness, compassionate toward others, communication style was considerate rather than argumentative or critical, lack of anger or resentment toward women/lack of sexism, clean, physically fit and healthy, good self-image, confident, mentally and emotionally stable, humorous, intelligent, could express his emotions clearly, desired and fostered good relationships with his family (and parents in particular).

My husband had most of these traits, and also manifested a few new ones, which I also found highly attractive: evidence of solid boundaries (ability to say 'no' and mean it), mental, physical and emotional strength (he is an Ironman triathlete), curiosity, desire to form relationships with the people who meant the most to me (my family adores him), ability to discuss a broad variety of topics, lack of fear of others, gregarious and outgoing (he is a social butterfly, unlike me!), has desired and maintained long-term friendships most of his life, sensitivity (feels things deeply), strong empathy, monogamous nature, leads by example, does exactly what he says he will do (this is so important, and so attractive to me!). He is also very sexy, very sensual and has taken the time to learn how to be a great lover (a 'trait' anyone can adopt by taking the time to learn). In addition, he makes me feel like the most beautiful woman alive by never criticizing my appearance and always telling me that he finds me beautiful and sexy (and confirming this through his responsiveness to me!). He is always showing me love and support, encouraging me and listening to me, but does not tell me what to do or try to parent me. He is happy being my husband, my lover and friend. He is happy, period. I realize some of these are behaviors rather than innate personality traits, but thought I'd mention them anyway.


He is not perfect, but damn near close, and he is certainly perfect for me . I've learned so much from him.. his character has shown so much that is good, wonderful, true and worthy of admiration. He has truly changed my life for the better, just by being who he is. Not a day goes by where I do not show my appreciation.

Sorry for the digression...

As requested, here are some traits in men which have excluded them in the past. These qualify as traits I "hate" or at least deeply dislike and won't tolerate in a relationship: very selfish attitude, abusive tendencies, anger and resentment toward women/sexism, sarcastic and argumentative communication style, emotional immaturity, dominant and domineering behavior, stupidity, bull-headedness, inability to articulate emotions, routine sexual impotence, prudishness and hangups, sexual perversions/addictions, promiscuity, infidelity, untrustworthiness, mental and emotional instability, inability to form close relationships or to be intimate with others, lack of ability to empathize, highly materialistic, compulsive, self-obsessed, superficial, skewed sense of ethical values, morally corrupt, overweening or obsequious, withholding, punishing, not affectionate, self-promoting, has hidden agendas, exploits others, laziness, victim mentality, blaming, passive-aggressive, addict, two-faced, self-pitying, gullible, insecure.

Long lists, but hopefully comprehensive enough. I am sure I forgot something . These are of course based on my opinions and subjective experience so take it for what it's worth. Hope it helps. Good luck!

Amber

[Apple Eye]

Amber, you are one lucky woman!

He sounds like a wonderful human being.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by SonoranBob

I strongly suspect that you are talking about what in my experience is the most common female fantasy: The Diamond in the Rough (tm). This plays out in many ways, including:

1) I'm not worthy of a diamond, so I will find one that needs a little work and polish it up myself (diamonds are the hardest substance known to man. They aren't easy to polish).

It isnt that i'm not worthy of a diamond,it's that diamonds are everywhere,falling from the sky,landing in your lap,practically begging you to have them. It isnt that i dont think i deserve someone who is so willing to love me,its that i cant make myself want someone who ALREADY wants me. Most things in life are like this,you dont appreciate things that are forced on you. You appreciate the things you have to work for. The things that you WANT to have before you have them. What fun is it to get everything you want before you even know you want it?

2) He will be eternally grateful to me for saving him (good luck with that!)

Why is this such a bad thing? lol I mean,i want to be saved,so naturally it would be a good thing if this happened,and if i could save someone else too. I dont see how this is bad at all.

3) He will always need me (maybe so, but he will hate himself for
needing you and hate you for making him dependent on you).

I dont want him to NEED me as in he doesnt have a life without me or doesnt feel happy without me. I want a man who doesnt need to be in a relationship. I dont want to be his lifeline. Maybe when i talk about saving someone it means different than what you think. Maybe its just the wrong word (i am bad at wording things,if you cant tell already LOL) I just want to HELP him.

4) I will feel great about myself because I have swooped in and Made A Difference (for who? Not for him -- he didn't think enough of himself to be a self-made man. It's for you -- he owes you godess-worship).

LOL That makes it sound so bad though! I dont want someone to be a spineless follower who worships me. I want an equal. And by swooping in and making a difference,he would also be doing that to me. Equality!

What is wrong with good boys, anyway? Saves you a lot of trouble and alot of responsibility that isn't really yours anyway. What is it about good boys that puts you off?

I didnt say i didnt want a good boy. It just so happens that every good boy i've ever met is clingy and desperate. Theyre too busy trying to prove to everyone how good they are. I would like a good guy who is shy,down to earth,has a life of his own,can be friends first,and doesnt need a relationship,isnt looking for one,in fact. Good guys are always out there practically begging girls to date them because they're "so dateable". Like i said in my opening paragraph,its hard to want something that you don't get a chance to want,its practically thrown at you.

PS: There is a REASON no one else was willing to save that flower. Hint: it isn't because they fail to see the value in the flower, or because they lack your huge capacity for compassion.

Enlighten me! lol Is it because they dont have the patience that i do? Because he didnt have enough money to buy them designer clothes and jewelry? Because most women get turned off by shy,insecure guys?

[coLLege kid07]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

It isnt that i'm not worthy of a diamond,it's that diamonds are everywhere,falling from the sky,landing in your lap,practically begging you to have them. It isnt that i dont think i deserve someone who is so willing to love me,its that i cant make myself want someone who ALREADY wants me. Most things in life are like this,you dont appreciate things that are forced on you. You appreciate the things you have to work for. The things that you WANT to have before you have them. What fun is it to get everything you want before you even know you want it?



Why is this such a bad thing? lol I mean,i want to be saved,so naturally it would be a good thing if this happened,and if i could save someone else too. I dont see how this is bad at all.



I dont want him to NEED me as in he doesnt have a life without me or doesnt feel happy without me. I want a man who doesnt need to be in a relationship. I dont want to be his lifeline. Maybe when i talk about saving someone it means different than what you think. Maybe its just the wrong word (i am bad at wording things,if you cant tell already LOL) I just want to HELP him.



LOL That makes it sound so bad though! I dont want someone to be a spineless follower who worships me. I want an equal. And by swooping in and making a difference,he would also be doing that to me. Equality!



I didnt say i didnt want a good boy. It just so happens that every good boy i've ever met is clingy and desperate. Theyre too busy trying to prove to everyone how good they are. I would like a good guy who is shy,down to earth,has a life of his own,can be friends first,and doesnt need a relationship,isnt looking for one,in fact. Good guys are always out there practically begging girls to date them because they're "so dateable". Like i said in my opening paragraph,its hard to want something that you don't get a chance to want,its practically thrown at you.



Enlighten me! lol Is it because they dont have the patience that i do? Because he didnt have enough money to buy them designer clothes and jewelry? Because most women get turned off by shy,insecure guys?

I'd try working on your values to fit what you're trying to explain to everyone. As for trying to save someone...that is a really bad idea. It means you are catoring to someone's insecurity whereas insecurity is not necessarly a good thing in itself. It's like comforting someone when they're doing an unwanted behavior. Maybe on a personal level it looks like you're helping them, but on a spiritual and emotional level you're actually hurting them...causing them to make it feel like doing that "behavior" is a good thing. Maybe it is you that need's the saving...=/ What do you really desire in a relationship? What things are truly important to you when it comes to relationships? My suggestion is find out where your values truly lie and from there you'll be able to live the life you truly want. Good luck

[niche]

Respect
Empathy
Likes to spoil me
Gives lots of attention
Can show affection in public
Not a delinquent
Loves children
Romantic
Truly believes in equality between sexes
For a physical trait....not skinny. I'd rather be with someone moderately obese than someone that is too skinny.
Proud to be with me/ to be seen with me
Includes me in his activities

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

I can't make myself want someone who ALREADY wants me. Most things in life are like this,you dont appreciate things that are forced on you.

In what sense is someone liking you having something forced on you? I don't see a connection there at all. Yes, it's possible the attention would be unwelcome because the attraction isn't mutual or the other person is not right. But the magic word "no" takes care of that.

Personally I think there is something intensely appealing about someone having clarity about me without needing a sell job. You surely have to acknowledge at least the possibility that someone could genuinely love you, for you, without the need for a lot of convincing.

As for the fun of the chase -- I've never really understood that. Perhaps in part because I'm not a highly competitive person, in part because I have always felt that one of the key challenges in any relationship is making it sustainable beyond the initial attraction. If part of the initial attraction is the pursuit itself, then after the capture, what is there? I'd rather see a strong attraction up front. Some of it might actually survive the mating ritual!

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

You appreciate the things you have to work for. The things that you WANT to have before you have them. What fun is it to get everything you want before you even know you want it?

It's also very nice not to have to earn something, especially love. Do gifts offend you? Does love in particular need to be based on how hard you work or how worthy you are?

Let me show you the other side of this coin as it might be experienced by the guy. My wife started out life as a child prodigy, and like many such people she felt she was loved for her titanic intellectual accomplishments, without which she would be nothing (ref: The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller) When we first met, her most overused phrase was "I'm sorry", to the point that it was an annoying bad habit. It took me a couple of years to break her of it. But in a sense, in her heart she never more than half believed I or anyone else genuinely loved her and respected her. The concept of someone loving her, for herself, because of who she was and not because of what she did or didn't do, was almost totally alien to her at first. Sadly, in ways I don't think it ever got much past the point of "makes sense to my head but is very counter-intuitive to my heart".

At one level it was great to help her with that but at another level it is pretty hard to be mistrusted and have your motives questioned all the time. It's like you're giving them the greatest gift you have to give and they don't think much of it because you must be doing it out of obligation or ulterior motives. My wife was always trying to earn a love she already had because she couldn't accept it as freely offered.

Making sure you've earned love is in my experience an itch you can never entirely scratch because it comes from a place of being convinced somewhere deep down that you're not worthy.

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

Why is this such a bad thing? lol I mean,i want to be saved,so naturally it would be a good thing if this happened,and if i could save someone else too. I dont see how this is bad at all.

If a person can't save themselves, they can't save anyone else.

But perhaps you have a point -- we may be talking past each other. I don't really understand your definition of "save" in this context but I would caution you that it is a loaded word and the way many people understand it, someone wanting to "save" them is inherently demeaning and even if they feel they need saving in some sense, it ultimately rubs them the wrong way. Some part of them feels condescended to and that part of them will act out in retaliation. Some part of them feels obligated because you're giving them a free pass they don't feel they deserve.

You might want to find a better word for practical reasons, and because the act of clarifying that may be instructive to you as well.

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

I want an equal. And by swooping in and making a difference,he would also be doing that to me. Equality!

That sounds good in principle. I have just grown wary of all the graniose, flowery, epic, heroic, love-for-the-ages rhetoric most of us use in this context. Although it's very compelling imagery that's widely used in pop culture, the truth about intimate relationships is much more prosaic. At the end of the day it's just two schlubs trying to watch each other's backsides without driving each other nuts. If you take it TOO seriously and make it into something more than that, as in, you are each other's salvation, then you are putting an awful lot of responsibility on each other that maybe isn't appropriate.

I say "maybe" because even at my age thinking I know much of anything about love is kind of foolish. I don't pretend to have it totally figured out for myself much less anyone else. I'm just suggesting you experiment with metaphors and frameworks of understanding that are distanced from "conventional wisdom" because it can be very liberating and empowering to do so. Too much of what we do in the name of love is done on autopilot using borrowed ideas.

--Bob

[melonstar]

Surely the question here is flawed.
Why on earth would we all want the same thing from our men? Won't that depend on who we are as individuals, and anyway what about wanting a man so he can share your life and your joy, not because of what you can get from him? I'd like a man I can give to and be relaxed with - someone said it earlier, a man who has it 'together'.
Just my thoughts x

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by coLLege kid07

I'd try working on your values to fit what you're trying to explain to everyone. As for trying to save someone...that is a really bad idea. It means you are catoring to someone's insecurity whereas insecurity is not necessarly a good thing in itself. It's like comforting someone when they're doing an unwanted behavior. Maybe on a personal level it looks like you're helping them, but on a spiritual and emotional level you're actually hurting them...causing them to make it feel like doing that "behavior" is a good thing. Maybe it is you that need's the saving...=/ What do you really desire in a relationship? What things are truly important to you when it comes to relationships? My suggestion is find out where your values truly lie and from there you'll be able to live the life you truly want. Good luck

Well i already know what my values are,i've talked about them on this thread too i'm sure..i value a friendship first to build a good foundation,i value honesty and loyalty. I value equality. And when you said maybe i need saving too...the more we use that word the more i dont like it...because it implies that i am in danger LOL I just want to love somebody! I want to experience true love! I want what everyone wants.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by SonoranBob

In what sense is someone liking you having something forced on you? I don't see a connection there at all. Yes, it's possible the attention would be unwelcome because the attraction isn't mutual or the other person is not right. But the magic word "no" takes care of that.

I feel forced to like guys when they like me more than i like them. Because naturally i feel like i have to give as much as he is giving,care as much as he is caring. But i cant do that in a matter of days or weeks. It takes me months to get feelings for someone enough to where i can truly give and mean it. I feel like the first few months are just trying to impress the other person,you dont really know them yet,so feelings cant be genuine.

Personally I think there is something intensely appealing about someone having clarity about me without needing a sell job. You surely have to acknowledge at least the possibility that someone could genuinely love you, for you, without the need for a lot of convincing.

Yes,i totally agree with you...i know that somebody can love me just for who i am...BUT NOT IN THE FIRST MONTH OR TWO. That is all my point is. Love doesnt pop up overnight,it takes cultivating,like a garden. LOL sorry i'm full of analogies!

As for the fun of the chase -- I've never really understood that. Perhaps in part because I'm not a highly competitive person, in part because I have always felt that one of the key challenges in any relationship is making it sustainable beyond the initial attraction. If part of the initial attraction is the pursuit itself, then after the capture, what is there? I'd rather see a strong attraction up front. Some of it might actually survive the mating ritual!

I'm not talking about the fun of the chase. I dont even want to chase him or have him chase me. I simply want to be friends! That doesnt involve any chasing. And there is nothing competitive about getting to know someone as a friend.

It's also very nice not to have to earn something, especially love. Do gifts offend you? Does love in particular need to be based on how hard you work or how worthy you are?

No gifts dont offend me as long as i know the person is giving it to me genuinely. I wouldn't want a diamond necklace from a guy i've only known a few weeks,i'm sorry,that is just too superficial for me. Then he's just trying too hard.

Making sure you've earned love is in my experience an itch you can never entirely scratch because it comes from a place of being convinced somewhere deep down that you're not worthy.

Its not like that at all. I feel like what i am worthy of,nobody can equal that. I feel like everyone else is too superficial and move MUCH too quickly and they dont value a strong foundation,they just wanna act on their impulses of lust and dive in head first and make something out of nothing. They just seem desperate to have something with you that they practically force it into existence.

If a person can't save themselves, they can't save anyone else.

Like i said in my other post,the more we use the word "save" the more i dont like it. Saving someone implies that they are in danger. I dont know what the word is i'm looking for,i just want to experience true love,like everybody else. I want to open up someone to love,to help them realize they are capable of loving and being loved. And that,in turn,is also helping me,because i am letting it flow out of me and into someone else. In order to love someone,yes,you do have to love yourself,but loving other people is HOW you experience love for yourself,because you are a loving person so therefore,obviously,you experience more love. LOL (this is really funny cuz im listening to a song right now where they keep repeating "you give me love,love,love,love,crazy love",no wonder why i am rambling on and on about it LOL)

even if they feel they need saving in some sense, it ultimately rubs them the wrong way. Some part of them feels condescended to and that part of them will act out in retaliation. Some part of them feels obligated because you're giving them a free pass they don't feel they deserve.

Does this really happen? Somebody would actually resent someone for loving them? That sounds too horrible to be true,that people would actually react that way. Well i want someone to realize they DO deserve love and have love inside them,they just need someone to help them see it. I dont want them to feel unworthy anymore.

[lasti]

I look for falling in love with them.

I think relationships are about love and NOTHING else (not about security, not about support, not about being not alone, not about being happy...).