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Welcome to the Personal Development for Smart People Forums, the place for lively, intelligent discussion of all personal growth issues -- physical, mental, financial, social, emotional, spiritual, and more. You're currently viewing as a guest, which gives you limited read-only access. By joining our free community, you'll be able to post your own messages, access many members-only features, see the new messages posted since your last visit, and of course remove this header message. Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please join today. If you arrived here from a search engine, you may want to explore the main site first, which includes hundreds of deep and insightful articles on a variety of personal development topics. |
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Just from what you've said here, I've dated women like yourself on more than one occasion. It's always been a good relationship, a good mix (not that I'm trying to hit on you, btw). They appreciate me for being a man, if that makes any sense. They want to be a feminine woman in a relationship and me to be the masculine man ("a man's man" type thing). In my experience one of two reason's caused the relationship to come to an end. One is that whole clingy thing you mentioned. I start being a bitch in other words. The other reason is that she becomes too controlling (smothering). To go along with your analogy, if you don't give your flower some water and a place in the sunshine, it dies. Sometimes it dies even when you do. Either way, you can't make it do anything. All you can do is create the best conditions and see what happens. That's just my experience and also I could be totally off about who you are. Not trying to put you in a box or anything.
__________________ -------------------------- Taking a break from the forums. My Blog on Addiction and Spirituality the Church of Ned |
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| Hasn't there already been a thread like this? Or is this it? Quote:
Honesty. Wisdom and common sense. Fidelity. Backbone, strong moral backbone. High moral standards and principles (that match my own). Has an idea of sex and what it should be that matches my own. Has an idea of love between a man and a woman that matches my own. Truth as his life compass. A poetic mind. Profound. Emotionally intelligent. Compassionate. Increasingly self-aware. Working on himself as a person. Treats others respectfully, no matter what the situation. Respects himself. Priorities and values that match my own. Devoted. Tender and loving towards me. Affectionate. Affectionately protective and caring. Loves me. Understands me... ...sigh...
__________________ Mild Charity's glow, to us mortals below, Shows the soul from barbarity clear, Compassion will melt where this virtue is felt, And its dew is diffused in a Tear. - Lord Byron, "The Tear" Last edited by Bitsy : 06-29-2008 at 09:30 PM. Reason: forgot one thing... |
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| So women want a man who is strong, but not rude; kind, but not weak; bold, but not a bully; is thoughtful, but not lazy; is humble, but not timid; proud, but not arrogant; has humor, but without folly. Edited quote by Jim Rohn You dont need to be a prick or a wuss to be a Man
__________________ May I have another Mam? |
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| My SO has been both strong and weak, brilliant and forgetful, proud and humble, funny and serious. I look for dynamic people who aren't afraid to change. Laying out the requisite personality traits for a man or a woman isn't going to help you find a right person for you. Then you're effectively looking for a static person. I think it takes intuitive experimentation to find out which people best complement each other, because they tend to showcase certain elements and play down others... but this changes. What's great is when you find someone who changes naturally with you, and whom you change naturally with. You both grow together. The chauvinist snips toward the women who have posted so far have not gone unnoticed. Most people don't bother to do intensive introspection about every area of their lives, both men and women. Locating one contradiction in a post doesn't necessitate your superiority over women, nor does it invalidate everything the poster tried to contribute to the thread in the maybe 15 minutes it took to write the post. This kind of pseudo-rationalist d**kwaving wouldn't stand outside these forums, where sexism is sanctioned in this bizarre ritualistic pseudo-religious masculine/feminine divide.
__________________ dishing out tough love. |
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And i dont know if its fair to look at the last guy a woman dated...because obviously she didnt want him otherwise she'd still be with him. |
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Furthermore, he seeks not to raise his own self-esteem further -- he doesn't need any more! -- but to lift that of those around him. He's not arrogant; rather, he's so convinced of his own value, that he has no need to show it to others. Indeed, he might conceal it so that those around him don't feel lesser by comparison. He's so incredibly strong inside that he can let his weaknesses show, bare, without fear of losing respect or value in another's eyes. He can cry, in public, without feeling self-conscious. His friends love him, and he loves them back double-fold. Heck, anyone he meets loves him because he makes people feel better about themselves. He makes people happy not because he needs them to like him, but because he genuinely wants them to be happy. His motivation is not one of neediness, but rather love. He raises their self-esteem without a trace of concern for his own, because in terms of self-esteem, he is wealthy beyond belief. I'm convinced that if you can be this man, you will have not only more women, INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL women, than you know what to do with, but you will have more great friends, more success in life, however you yourself might define that, and more happiness than you ever thought possible. And, frankly, if you can be that man, you deserve it. Re-reading that, it sounds like I'm channeling Jesus or Buddha or something! |
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__________________ dishing out tough love. |
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You use words such sexism to describe this “bizarre ritualistic pseudo-religious masculine/feminine divide". Sexism is related to gender, masculinity and femineity is not determined by gender. In the Gay and Lesbian world men and woman still follow masculinity and femineity principles. But ordinarily the nature of human beings is that women are core feminie beings and men are core masculine beings. Why? this is what creates a passionate relationship. Saying this no one is totally masculine or totally feminie, a health person has both feminie and masculine traits but they known what their core is and they work and live from there.
__________________ May I have another Mam? |
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I'm not mad at the concept, though I think it's wrong. I'm frustrated that it's being abused to make fun of women, by way of bits like these: Quote:
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Now, I'm a big advocate of discernment. It's not that I want to sanitize thought, and that whatever you say is fine as long as it's not sexist. People can be non-sexist and wrong, and people are often sexist but right about other things. But when making distinctions in the ways men and women think and act rides down the slippery slope into stereotyping, it confuses and conflates what issues you're actually referring to. And it happens a lot in here because Steve and Erin "went there" on the gender issue. Is that a bit more cool-headed for you?
__________________ dishing out tough love. |
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| September--I stand by my lighthearted comment. I enjoyed writing it and I enjoyed your response to it. Grouping all those quotes together helped to tell the story better. Last edited by cylon : 07-01-2008 at 03:46 PM. |
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For example: Are you attracted to the person that you're with? (By "attracted", I mean on a gut, animalistic, I-wanna-jump-ur-bones level.) Yes? Then that person HAS high social value to you, by (my) definition. Conversely, the arrogant rich prick who treats service people like crap, who has very few friends (because people don't like him!), is super-defensive about everything and always cutting other people down... he has LOW social value and, hence, is not attractive despite his wealth and class. I hope that makes sense. Quote:
I hope I'm not belaboring the point, but I want to be clear: I'm certainly not implying that women go for rich guys, for example. An insecure rich guy will have massive trouble getting women. It's almost worse to be rich if you're insecure, actually -- it's like, "You have all this money and cool possessions and you're STILL not happy with yourself?? Wow, you must really be rotten on the inside..." Now, I'd argue that very secure guys tend to be more successful with life in general, and are therefore more likely to achieve financial success, but the reverse is not necessarily true. Also, having sufficient money can certainly help drive a man's attractive behavior -- for example, you're less likely to freak out on a friend who owes you money or get stressed out and snippy because your rent is coming due. In terms of gut-level female attraction, though, the money itself is generally irrelevant -- it's about the guy's behavior itself. (Except for gold-diggers, but I'm assuming decent, emotionally honest women here.) As far as dating within one's league, yes I completely agree, but for reasons I won't get into here cuz this is already a novel. Maybe food for a seperate thread? Quote:
If I may share my own experience... Just a couple years ago, I had more money, faster car, nicer apartment, etc., but hot women wanted nothing to do with me. I was shut down so quick my head spun. Or if I did get a phone number, they wouldn't return my calls. That's changed, dramatically, and the only improvement has been in my own behavior. I was massively insecure on the inside, and it showed. Women saw right through it, so I simply was not very attractive to them. I understand that now. I just hate that I'm discovering this so late in life. ** That's shallow, and that sucks, but that's just how us guys are wired. I wish I could lust after a physically unattractive girl, because the outside shouldn't make a bit of difference, and there really are some incredible women out there that just are not physically attractive. But it does matter to the lizard brain, and I've hurt some very sweet girls by denying that truth. Never again. Side observation: For all the flack that men give women for being "irrational" or whatever... well, I COMPLETELY disagree. I think it's *extremely* rational to judge a man by his behavior, and, conversely, it makes zero sense to judge a woman by her appearance, at least in a modern context. But evolution made us what we are, deep down. (So, hey, women, you can't take total credit for it!! *** I wish we could just have academic discussions about this stuff without everybody's egos getting involved, but people are people after all... Not talking about you in particular, september, but about this forum in general -- people are really touchy when it comes to analyzing social behavior. (I know why, I think, and maybe it'd be good fodder for another discussion.) But it makes real life discussions on the subject almost impossible without destroying friendships. |
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Hey im all about finding floors in my philosophy, how can it be improved?, whats wrong with it? Quote:
The irony is that you love putting these people back in line. You didnt get as strong as you are from just tolerating these people. Next time one of these dropkicks says something thats borderline retarded, Just look at it as a chance to refine your skill. Just say: KEEP TALKIN, KEEP TALKIN, IM GONNA MESS YOU UP!!!!
__________________ May I have another Mam? Last edited by Mr_A : 07-02-2008 at 03:47 AM. |
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I strongly suspect that you are talking about what in my experience is the most common female fantasy: The Diamond in the Rough (tm). This plays out in many ways, including: 1) I'm not worthy of a diamond, so I will find one that needs a little work and polish it up myself (diamonds are the hardest substance known to man. They aren't easy to polish). 2) He will be eternally grateful to me for saving him (good luck with that!) 3) He will always need me (maybe so, but he will hate himself for needing you and hate you for making him dependent on you). 4) I will feel great about myself because I have swooped in and Made A Difference (for who? Not for him -- he didn't think enough of himself to be a self-made man. It's for you -- he owes you godess-worship). What is wrong with good boys, anyway? Saves you a lot of trouble and alot of responsibility that isn't really yours anyway. What is it about good boys that puts you off? --Bob PS: There is a REASON no one else was willing to save that flower. Hint: it isn't because they fail to see the value in the flower, or because they lack your huge capacity for compassion. |
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When I was dating and first met my husband, the general personality and physical traits I was looking for in men included the following: friendly and agreeable, honesty, integrity, actions match his words, actively engaged in life (e.g. some endeavor that he was passionate about and devoted to such as his work, education, art, music, etc.), demonstrated respect and kindness, compassionate toward others, communication style was considerate rather than argumentative or critical, lack of anger or resentment toward women/lack of sexism, clean, physically fit and healthy, good self-image, confident, mentally and emotionally stable, humorous, intelligent, could express his emotions clearly, desired and fostered good relationships with his family (and parents in particular). My husband had most of these traits, and also manifested a few new ones, which I also found highly attractive: evidence of solid boundaries (ability to say 'no' and mean it), mental, physical and emotional strength (he is an Ironman triathlete), curiosity, desire to form relationships with the people who meant the most to me (my family adores him), ability to discuss a broad variety of topics, lack of fear of others, gregarious and outgoing (he is a social butterfly, unlike me!), has desired and maintained long-term friendships most of his life, sensitivity (feels things deeply), strong empathy, monogamous nature, leads by example, does exactly what he says he will do (this is so important, and so attractive to me!). He is also very sexy, very sensual and has taken the time to learn how to be a great lover (a 'trait' anyone can adopt by taking the time to learn). In addition, he makes me feel like the most beautiful woman alive by never criticizing my appearance and always telling me that he finds me beautiful and sexy (and confirming this through his responsiveness to me!). He is always showing me love and support, encouraging me and listening to me, but does not tell me what to do or try to parent me. He is happy being my husband, my lover and friend. He is happy, period. I realize some of these are behaviors rather than innate personality traits, but thought I'd mention them anyway. He is not perfect, but damn near close, and he is certainly perfect for me Sorry for the digression... As requested, here are some traits in men which have excluded them in the past. These qualify as traits I "hate" or at least deeply dislike and won't tolerate in a relationship: very selfish attitude, abusive tendencies, anger and resentment toward women/sexism, sarcastic and argumentative communication style, emotional immaturity, dominant and domineering behavior, stupidity, bull-headedness, inability to articulate emotions, routine sexual impotence, prudishness and hangups, sexual perversions/addictions, promiscuity, infidelity, untrustworthiness, mental and emotional instability, inability to form close relationships or to be intimate with others, lack of ability to empathize, highly materialistic, compulsive, self-obsessed, superficial, skewed sense of ethical values, morally corrupt, overweening or obsequious, withholding, punishing, not affectionate, self-promoting, has hidden agendas, exploits others, laziness, victim mentality, blaming, passive-aggressive, addict, two-faced, self-pitying, gullible, insecure. Long lists, but hopefully comprehensive enough. I am sure I forgot something Amber |
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