Couples should tolerate 'infidelity', allow open relationships

[Adelina]

I was just reading in a book, a random example of a wife cheating on a husband, which led to a divorce.

Why don't couples allow for outside relationships, as is natural, rather than breaking up a family over it?

It seems that rather primitive reactions like jealousy, territory, and possession are some of the reactions that hold people back from permitting their partner to see others.
As long as there's a stable primary family unit bonded by love.
Another hundred years or so, perhaps humans will be over it, and open relationships will be the norm?

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Adelina

I was just reading in a book, a random example of a wife cheating on a husband, which led to a divorce.

Why don't couples allow for outside relationships, as is natural, rather than breaking up a family over it?

It seems that rather primitive reactions like jealousy, territory, and possession are some of the reactions that hold people back from permitting their partner to see others.
As long as there's a stable primary family unit bonded by love.
Another hundred years or so, perhaps humans will be over it, and open relationships will be the norm?

I'd MUCH rather have my parents divorce than being gone all the time loving somebody else but coming home to someone they dont love. ANY DAY.

[votoshka]

Well I guess there is more than one perspective on the issue!

My question is, if you love your partner, why cheat?? Okay, for various reasons it happens... but I don't think it's natural or healthy necessarily (unless it's already agreed upon by the couple that they will have an open relationship).

Naturally, the partner who has been cheated on will have a lot of jealousy and insecurity issues, such as "Why aren't I enough?" "What has he/she got that I haven't got?" etc. etc. Which I think is perfectly normal!

Yes, it's possible to get over infidelity, but I don't think it's a natural expectation that you SHOULD get over it. If the relationship is worth saving, then you can work at getting over it, but it generally also means that to move on the cheating partner has to STOP cheating! I think it would be a very understanding woman/man who would happily allow their partner to go and seek satisfaction elsewhere.

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by Adelina

Why don't couples allow for outside relationships, as is natural, rather than breaking up a family over it?

I don't get it, why is it natural for couples to have outside relationships (outside relationships meaning what is commonly called cheating on someone)?

[PianoManGidley]

Eh...polygamy isn't for everyone, but neither is monogamy. Being polygamous has helped me realize, however, that there isn't just ONE SINGLE PERSON out there for me.

[MidasGirl]

My take is that if you and your partner haven't discussed (and agreed on) having an "open" relationship then infidelity is an inconsiderate act. Just like going out and spending money to make an expensive 'impulse buy' item without discussing it with your partner is. Marriage or relationships are about sacrifice and compromise. If you don't want to compromise or sacrifice then stay out of them.

Also, it isn't about what one person wants. I was having this talk with one of my girlfriends whose husband is really "pushing" the idea of a 3-some on her (involving another girl that is). She says she is totally not turned on by girls, and she doesn't want to invite another woman into their marriage anyway. He keeps pushing for it. Sorry. If your partner is strongly opposed to something, and you decide to have a temper tantrum like a 2 yr old cuz you have to have it, you are closer to a loser than you think!

[Anand Dhillon]

IMO, an open relationship is fine if that is what you have agreed upon beforehand.

If, however, you have chosen to be in an exclusive relationship, you should not cheat because of your own sense of integrity.

The idea of whether or not a couple should allow open relationships comes down to an individual choice made by the couple. Once an agreement is made, however, that decision should be honored.

[Hoamaru]

Why not just breakup and be friends then? I think that'd be a better option rather then cheating on eachother. Since there isn't just one single person out there for a person, breaking up should be an easy thing to do.

Couples need to decide these things before they get into a relationship. If one is expecting monogomy and the other is expecting polygomy it's just not going to work.

Edit: Heh, didn't see the post right before this one. Says pretty much the same thing.

[Breakaway]

You're all missing the point of the original poster.

He never once claimed that the person doesn't love the family anymore or that this was kept hidden from the other partner.

Just because a person has sex with another person doesn't mean he doesn't love the original person. The vast majority of guys watch porn and masterbate thinking about it, does that mean they love porn more than their significant other? It is simply society that has told you with Judeo-Christian values that monogamy is the preferred choice. It's the same kind of belief that made people think slavery was okay, or that women were not allowed to work.

[mercuryrising]

Originally Posted by Adelina

I was just reading in a book, a random example of a wife cheating on a husband, which led to a divorce.

Why don't couples allow for outside relationships, as is natural, rather than breaking up a family over it?

It seems that rather primitive reactions like jealousy, territory, and possession are some of the reactions that hold people back from permitting their partner to see others.
As long as there's a stable primary family unit bonded by love.
Another hundred years or so, perhaps humans will be over it, and open relationships will be the norm?

I actually think this would cause less 'infedelity' and people would be more honest with eachother (meaning, they would be together for the right reasons).

Women and men often play the jealousy gambit on each other... this is the main motivation for cheating that I've seen. It puts the person who isn't cheating in a dependent position. You know they have other options and are willing to take them, so you do different things to try and keep that person from leaving. If you don't care if they sleep with someone else, it doesn't matter. And if someone is that unhappy or simply prefers a different way to live and cheating doesn't change anything, they might just tell the person what's up instead of fooling around.

just my $.02

[Tigerlilly]

Originally Posted by Adelina

Why don't couples allow for outside relationships, as is natural, rather than breaking up a family over it?

And it is natural exactly why???


I don't think one can state any "should's" in this as in most other personal matters. Funny thing is, at times I can imagine having a partner who has outside relationships, and not be too bothered about it myself, but I have a hard time imagining being with a partner who wouldn't be bothered that I have outside relationships. That'd make me want to pack my bag and get out of the relationship. Slightly confusing.

All in all I guess I would always prefer monogamy and Mr. Absolutely Marvelous to only worship the ground beneath my little feet, I'd be lying if I said I didn't. Maybe that is lack of enlightenment, I don't know, but there it is.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I am another who wonders why it's unnatural to commit to one partner?

Even when I strip away the jealousy and insecurity that have been troubling me, I don't want anyone else and I'd prefer my partner didn't either.

Can't we each decide for ourselves what we want and then find a partner who agrees? Why is it "less enlightened" to prefer a one-on-one relationship?

I also agree that when you go into a relationship knowing it is open that is quite different from agreeing to be "faithful" and then breaking that promise. Of course there is hurt when one partner does something dishonest like that. The way to solve that is for everyone to have integrity, not just for everyone to be in an open relationship. Some people don't want that and I don't see a problem with it. Just like I have no problem with those who prefer to have many partners to act in that way (as long as they are honest with everyone about it).

[Angela]

You know, it's not easy to be open and honest about a non-monogamy choice, because we have been so heavily socialized to believe it's wrong and bad and harmful to make a choice other than monogamy.

I'm not surprised that people go into LLTMBRs with a "we'll be together forever!" attitude, because we're taught that that's normal, and anything else is abnormal (wrong, bad and harmful). In so many ways, from so many directions, we are bombarded with these messages that you are supposed to get married, stay married, be sexually faithful, and all the other "debts" about relationships or there is something wrong with you. And then there is so much blame and shame when you "fail."

In this sort of atmosphere, it doesn't surprise me that people would lie to their partner and to themselves about their monogamy -- not necessarily out of maliciousness, but just trying to cope with the demands of being what you think you're supposed to be.

Some of the posters here are saying, "well, it's okay if you agree ahead of time that you'll have an open relationship, but otherwise you're a scoundrel if you cheat." I think that sort of feeds into your own feelings of what a relationship *should* be, and sets you up for limitations on freedom, love, and connection. All of which is not to say that it's wrong to make a commitment of sexual fidelity. Just that: why not practice letting go of making each other wrong when sexual infidelity rears it's head (so to speak )? Pretty much everyone at least thinks about sex with persons other than their partner, which leads me to believe that we're not inherently monogamous creatures. Again, it might be a good idea for you to make a sexual commitment anyway -- but recognize that you're swimming upstream when you do. That might be a really great game or challenge for you, but remember: there is no failure, only feedback.

Under the circumstances of all this pressure, doesn't it make sense to cut your partner (and yourself!) a little slack?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

In this sort of atmosphere, it doesn't surprise me that people would lie to their partner and to themselves about their monogamy -- not necessarily out of maliciousness, but just trying to cope with the demands of being what you think you're supposed to be.

It's very understandable. I think that most people don't even really deeply question what they actually want, they are just conditioned by society to feel it's "right" to behave a certain way. And there may be an internal conflict when they feel the desire to do something different. They may feel they are wrong when really they are doing what is best for them. And so they hide it. Or try to beat it. On and on.

Originally Posted by Angela

Some of the posters here are saying, "well, it's okay if you agree ahead of time that you'll have an open relationship, but otherwise you're a scoundrel if you cheat." I think that sort of feeds into your own feelings of what a relationship *should* be, and sets you up for limitations on freedom, love, and connection.

I guess I still have a problem with this. Even though I've read lots of Byron Katie, it still feels like it would leave you without preference. You would just tolerate anything. No, the cheater is not a scoundrel, but when you break your word isn't it to be expected that it might bother the person you gave your word to? I guess I just haven't come to a point where it wouldn't hurt me at all, even if I were then able to work through it and not make them wrong

It just feels bad when other people tell me I should be fine with an open relationship. Because I'm not (for me). It's like we aren't as good because we are still living by the dictates of society. And I can't remember ever thinking about having sex with someone else while in a relationship. One person is enough for me. Maybe only I am naturally monogamous? I do agree that if you are in a relationship and your partner chooses to have sex with someone else, that doesn't make them wrong or bad. There are a lot of things to take into consideration. You might work it out and realize that there were things about the relationship that led to that, you may leave, etc.

Originally Posted by Angela

Under the circumstances of all this pressure, doesn't it make sense to cut your partner (and yourself!) a little slack?

Sure. And I think that is a different point from what the OP was saying. S/he seems to be making people wrong who want to be in a one-on-one relationship. Regardless of how I may handle an actual incident of "infidelity," I want a one-on-one partnership. Now I am supposed to feel badly about that and buy into the idea that we are not naturally monogomous. I guess my main point is, why can't we all just do what is best for us?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I guess I still have a problem with this. Even though I've read lots of Byron Katie, it still feels like it would leave you without preference. You would just tolerate anything. No, the cheater is not a scoundrel, but when you break your word isn't it to be expected that it might bother the person you gave your word to? I guess I just haven't come to a point where it wouldn't hurt me at all, even if I were then able to work through it and not make them wrong

Sure, when someone breaks their word it certainly does have an impact on others! Where did you hear me saying it shouldn't bother or hurt you? And imagine what would be possible in your relationship if you committed to letting go of making your partner wrong, even if they did something that has an impact on you. It's a little hard to get your mind around, I know -- it's one of the more challenging aspects of 100% responsibility! You don't have to condone behavior that you perceive impacts you negatively; you don't have to stick around with someone who is a habitual word-breaker. But 100% responsibility entails granting others the freedom to make their own choices, even when you don't like those choices.

It just feels bad when other people tell me I should be fine with an open relationship.

Is that what you heard me saying? You sure that's not your gremlins talking?

... I want a one-on-one partnership. Now I am supposed to feel badly about that and buy into the idea that we are not naturally monogomous. I guess my main point is, why can't we all just do what is best for us?

It feels to me like this has pushed your buttons a bit, right? I like your main point: why can't we all just do what is best for us. What's best for you (right now) is a monogamous relationship -- and one of the things that causes you stress is that you worry that that might not be "best" for your partner -- he might choose something other than monogamy. Are you willing to grant him the freedom to do what is best for him, even if it doesn't match up with your preferences?

By the way, and I apologize in advance because I reckon this might sound condescending, but please know I don't mean it that way: you are in your mid-20's. Who knows how you will feel about a) this guy and b) monogamy in general in the next 10, 20, 30, 40 years? I can tell you from personal experience that my peers and I have all gone through tremendous transformation of perspective about the people we were with in our 20's and also our thoughts & feelings on relationship in general. I thank my lucky stars that I didn't sign any lifetime contracts during my 20's. (actually, I'm still not ready to sign any lifetime contracts!).

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by Angela

By the way, and I apologize in advance because I reckon this might sound condescending, but please know I don't mean it that way: you are in your mid-20's. Who knows how you will feel about a) this guy and b) monogamy in general in the next 10, 20, 30, 40 years? I can tell you from personal experience that my peers and I have all gone through tremendous transformation of perspective about the people we were with in our 20's and also our thoughts & feelings on relationship in general. I thank my lucky stars that I didn't sign any lifetime contracts during my 20's. (actually, I'm still not ready to sign any lifetime contracts!).

I'm not sure Aspiring mentioned marrying anywhere.
I personally also desire a committed, monogamous and preferably long term romantic relationship. Not necessarily a lifetime one. I hate all contracts, even as simple as a cell phone contract, anyway, so I don't think I'm going to marry someone anyway. I'd gladly "marry" someone and give "vows" - but not restrictive and binding. Bonding is good, though.
So I do think lifetime contracts are not the way to go, but I do think lifetime commitments are still desirable.

PS: I hope you're not saying that decisions that we make as 20-something-ers are inferior to those we make in our 40's.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

Sure, when someone breaks their word it certainly does have an impact on others! Where did you hear me saying it shouldn't bother or hurt you?

Sorry, I was responding to you, but I was also incorporating what the OP said. S/he was the one who made it sound like it should be no big deal. That you should be fine with it. I know that your perspective is different, but I mixed the two.

Originally Posted by Angela

And imagine what would be possible in your relationship if you committed to letting go of making your partner wrong, even if they did something that has an impact on you. It's a little hard to get your mind around, I know -- it's one of the more challenging aspects of 100% responsibility! You don't have to condone behavior that you perceive impacts you negatively; you don't have to stick around with someone who is a habitual word-breaker. But 100% responsibility entails granting others the freedom to make their own choices, even when you don't like those choices.

I wholeheartedly agree with all of that.

Originally Posted by Angela

Is that what you heard me saying? You sure that's not your gremlins talking?

Somewhat gremlins I am sure, but also again it was a response to the attitude the OP seemed to be advocating -- that we should be fine with it. I'm not sure why I even responded to your post since I know that's not what you mean. I may have read that into what you were saying since I was still a little heated from the earlier post.

Originally Posted by Angela

It feels to me like this has pushed your buttons a bit, right?

Of course. I have an abundance of pushable buttons, so it's easy to do .

Originally Posted by Angela

What's best for you (right now) is a monogamous relationship -- and one of the things that causes you stress is that you worry that that might not be "best" for your partner -- he might choose something other than monogamy.

Sure, that's the part that worries me a little, but...

Originally Posted by Angela

Are you willing to grant him the freedom to do what is best for him, even if it doesn't match up with your preferences?

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by Angela

By the way, and I apologize in advance because I reckon this might sound condescending, but please know I don't mean it that way: you are in your mid-20's. Who knows how you will feel about a) this guy and b) monogamy in general in the next 10, 20, 30, 40 years? I can tell you from personal experience that my peers and I have all gone through tremendous transformation of perspective about the people we were with in our 20's and also our thoughts & feelings on relationship in general. I thank my lucky stars that I didn't sign any lifetime contracts during my 20's. (actually, I'm still not ready to sign any lifetime contracts!).

It's not condescending to my 28 year old ears. If you had said it to me when I was 15 I may have reacted differently . I do know that attitudes and preferences can change and I don't even want a lifetime contract so much anymore. I just want honesty and connection. I feel like each day I wake up and choose and I want him to be able to do the same. Again, I think my pain carried over from my reaction to the "shoulding" of the OP and spilled onto you. I don't think there is anything he should do or should not do. If he makes a choice that differs from what I want we will deal with it. I'm still afraid of being in the dark about the choices he makes, but when I grant him the freedom to make them, he seems to be very open about what he's doing. Even if he isn't, I have a choice to stay or go and how to react in every way. I'd prefer at this point that we be together for a long time, but I know my feelings could change even though I don't anticipate wanting to be anywhere but with him.

All in all I think I just had a reaction mode (rooted in old pain that I am actually pretty free of on a day to day basis in my life with him) instead of responding thoughtfully from the position I really hold. I don't know what came over me. I guess it feels like (not you) people want us all to be one way -- either monogamy or polyamoury -- and leave no room for the fact that certain people want one or the other despite what may be "natural" for the species as a whole. We are all individuals.

So, in long (because I never seem to do anything "in short") I made this thread about me and I'm sorry to have derailed it.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Playlife

PS: I hope you're not saying that decisions that we make as 20-something-ers are inferior to those we make in our 40's.

No, I'm saying that you might be surprised at how your mind changes from your 20's to your 40's, and how different your choices may be.

(by the way, I don't see a distinction between a lifetime contract versus a lifetime commitment -- either way, you give your word, and if you break it, there are consequences, some that you can see and some that you can't, so it's a good idea to keep that in mind when drawing up the contract or making the commitment.)