Couples should tolerate 'infidelity', allow open relationships

[Squid]

Why don't couples allow for outside relationships, as is natural, rather than breaking up a family over it?

Perhaps because they don't want to worry about what kind of physical dangers they would be exposing themselves to. It's easy to say "jealousy" is bad and people should get over it and allow their partners to have many other partners.

The simple fact is, if I have sex with someone I trust that they are healthy and free of disease. If they have sex outside of that relationship they must also trust that the person is healthy and free of disease. But people are not always so truthful or aware of certain physical conditions. Cutting down on the number of sexual relationships you have with people at a certain time reduces your risk of exposure to potentially nasty and sometimes fatal diseases.

[Remiel]

I disagree with the "as is natural" bit. I'll simply voice my opinion that that is not natural and that 1 man and 1 woman for life is my belief.

[Angela]

Remiel, why do you think it's natural for humans to mate for life? I ask because statistics show that anywhere from 30% to 70% of married couples deal with infidelity, half divorce, and almost everybody fantasizes about having sex with someone other than their spouse?

I can understand that you would be in favor of marriage, but it seems to me that it's definitely paddling upstream to do so. That might be a wonderful thing for personal growth, but it's hard to see how it's natural -- or inherent to our species.

Especially the fantasizing part. If humans were naturally monogamous, why would we be so prone to thinking about boning others? Wouldn't that have evolved right out of us?

[m4xx]

I was only commited to someone for a very short time in my life, but I can say I haven't fantasized once about boning anyone. Especially since I was sexually satisfied.

I pretty much found myself in aspiring's post. Never really looked around, and now that I am not under the pressure of being a virgin anymore, I'd maybe even look around less

But I did wonder if I would change after some time.
does fantasizing about laying other people only grow after a bigger timespan in a relationship?

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Squid

I don't believe there is anything inherently wrong or unethical with having open relationships. I do feel that some of us are perfectly satisfied with one partner,and there are many people that are not. Most people that want and need multiple partners find themselves in compromising situations and struggle with their desires, it is nearly always disastrous when one of each type marry each other.

In my own experience I offered an open relationship to a partner that I caught attempting to cheat on me. He didn't want this at all. I suspect because he was perfectly happy having sex outside of our monogamous relationship but he was afraid he would lose me to another man if I were able to feel comfort in exploring sexual relationships outside of ours. In other words, people are selfish. To use a very cliche expression, They want to have their cake and eat it too.

Many open relationships are presented to their partner as a last resort. Sometimes they are mutually agreed upon arrangements. A lot of times one person is jealous or unhappy.

One reason I can think of why we shouldn't have open relationships is, it's very dangerous on many counts. You don't know if strangers have diseases, and my guess is they wouldn't tell you. Also, you don't know if they are psycho. Just because the husband and wife can handle it doesn't mean the people they're having flings with will be able to handle it. What if they follow you home? What if they become obsessed with breaking you up because they "love you"? What if they approach your spouse? There's just too many factors when you have a revolving door of strangers in you sexual life, especially if you have kids. You're putting them at risk even if you never take them near your home. You just don't know who they are or what they're capable of. Another thing is, you're opening up your relationship to be ruined. It's not always easy to separate sex and emotion. What if you start to like someone more than your spouse? It's easier to love someone you don't have any attachments to... someone you don't have to answer to... Can anyone deny that you're setting yourself up for a boatload of trouble?

[fitx3]

There is a whole "lifestyle" out there called swinging. These are couples who agree to have sex with other people but continue to have a loving relationship. They do not allow certain emotions like jealousy to intervene. These people are able to separate love and sex when it comes to getting it on with other people. I don't really agree with this concept but I have to say I respect the idea far more than the idea of cheating behind someone's back. I guess if it's agreed upon, there is nothing wrong with extra marital affairs.

[Breakaway]

I don't think it has to be agreed upon. When you make a new friend do you say, "hey, don't talk to other people, you can only be my friend, and I don't want you making any new friends. It's natural to only have 1."

[m4xx]

well, you usually don't **** friends, so there is no health issue with them having other friends too. friends do not give you HIV or other crap. In my opinion, it's your duty to ask your partner if they are fine with you ****ing other people. And if they are not, and you can't deal with that, then you have a problem I guess

I'm not saying that strict monogamy is the only way of living, but in a partnership I expect my partner to care a little about me and get the idea that I may not approve of them having sex with someone else, so that they would ask me first.

[Tigerlilly]

Originally Posted by Breakaway

I don't think it has to be agreed upon. When you make a new friend do you say, "hey, don't talk to other people, you can only be my friend, and I don't want you making any new friends. It's natural to only have 1."

Hm, there's a difference between friends and lovers...for me at least.

I've been thinking this over with the result that as far as I'm concerned I'm not open for open relationships.

I don't want to be with a guy who needs to screw around for real to lead a fulfilled life. I've used the quote someplace else before:

"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest." Confucius

So maybe I fantasize about bedding other guys( or do god knows what, for that matter), but I don't have to live out every fantasy to lead a fulfilled life.

I think almost everybody feels like murdering another once in their lifetime, but no one claims that therefore it is natural to kill others so we should live it out. Not everything that goes on in our little minds or boils in our blood needs to be taken out onto the streets.

Now, I consider that ability an advantage and a sign of intelligence and spiritual maturity. And I simply have no desire to be with someone who's not in possession of these qualities, at least to the same extent that I believe them to be in my own possession.

[Dharma]

I have a friend who lives in Anguilla. Even though the excerpt below would make you believe traditional marriage has taken over the culture, she says there are still families with "inners" and "outers". Inners are the children fathered by the husband and outers are ones from someone other than the husband. She says the children are loved all the same and they are seen as gifts from God. It doesn't matter where they came from.

Culture of Anguilla - History and ethnic relations, Urbanism, architecture, and the use of space
MARRIAGE, FAMILY, AND KINSHIP

Marriage. The extended family is central to Anguillan and West Indian societies in general. Despite the strong influences of the Methodist and Anglican Churches, historically marriage was not considered obligatory for the creation of a family or a domestic living arrangement. During the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, apart from the small upper class of English landowners, social conditions and slavery made the creation of long-lasting unions very difficult. Men and women frequently lived together in common law marriages for varying lengths of time. It was not infrequent for women and men to have children with more than one partner. Marriage in the Western sense was more likely to occur among the upper and middle classes. Today marriage is considered a cornerstone of family and social life, and weddings are community events.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Breakaway

When you make a new friend do you say, "hey, don't talk to other people, you can only be my friend, and I don't want you making any new friends. It's natural to only have 1."

Very good.

In the light of being the creator of all my experience, I just gotta pause and say hmmmm to that. I got a lot of rules I have to look at there. Like, why do I limit myself? What am I trying to protect myself from with these restrictions/forms of denial?

When I take on a new friend or lover, I'm adding the reflection of a relationship with myself.
So, more is bad? No.
Hard to manage? Yes, if my mind is too involved.
Too much reflection of self is bad? Maybe, if I could stay conscious, it would be a great evolutionary accelerator. I don't want to go too fast now.
Too animalistic? Do I want to perceive myself as higher than an "animal"? Is it denial of self then? Denial that I have an animal body and I like stuff like eating and sex?
Too much joy? Imagine being able to move with any impulse/experience you have and be ok with it. Cuz what's the expected reflection from your lover when they find out you were with someone else.... jealousy and lack! So, if I feel too much joy and ease I have to replace it with jealousy and lack. Hmmmm.

[munish]

In fact, about 85% of cheaters are good people who are doing the best they can to cope with a very difficult situation. -Mira Kirshenbaum

When Good People Have Affairs --- by Mira Kirshenbaum

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by munish

In fact, about 85% of cheaters are good people who are doing the best they can to cope with a very difficult situation. -Mira Kirshenbaum

When Good People Have Affairs --- by Mira Kirshenbaum

Why should anyone trust her? Because she wrote a book? Good by HER judgment. Who cares what she thinks? She's just enabling cheaters by saying it's okay. In fact, it's a smart way to get her book sold. By the way, a statistic based on her judgment of who is "good" is not a statistic. It's an opinion.

[Squid]

I really do think cheating is one of the worst and most disrespectful things you can do to someone.

Of course, my opinion has a bias because I've got a dead cousin, that is only dead because her cheating husband gave her HIV. His "indiscretion" cost their children a life with their mother, and for what? an orgasm? Doesn't seem worth it to me.

Maybe if he had been more honest she would have been able to reduce her chance of picking that up by using condoms or choosing to leave the relationship.

Tolerating infidelity for the sake of children seems like a moot point in that case.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

Why should anyone trust her? Because she wrote a book? Good by HER judgment. Who cares what she thinks? She's just enabling cheaters by saying it's okay. In fact, it's a smart way to get her book sold. By the way, a statistic based on her judgment of who is "good" is not a statistic. It's an opinion.

Nobody is perfect. She is just showing us the truth about infidelity,that even good people do it. It doesnt matter if you can "trust" her,shes simply showing another side of it that most people dont think to look at cuz theyre too busy judging people who cheat. If everyone that cheated was a bad person,then most people are hypocrites for putting down people who cheat. I've never walked in a cheaters shoes so until i do,i wont condemn them.

[vimoh]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

I've never walked in a cheaters shoes so until i do,i wont condemn them.

Well said RockChick

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

Nobody is perfect. She is just showing us the truth about infidelity,that even good people do it. It doesnt matter if you can "trust" her,shes simply showing another side of it that most people dont think to look at cuz theyre too busy judging people who cheat. If everyone that cheated was a bad person,then most people are hypocrites for putting down people who cheat. I've never walked in a cheaters shoes so until i do,i wont condemn them.

I'm just pointing out her statistic is purely made up. What are the parameters of a "good" person? How did she get the 85%. My point is, she just threw out a random number and people are taking it as a real statistic. When someone does that. I don't trust them. They're making things up based on their feelings and trying to make it look like an indisputable fact. It's not a fact. It's pure fiction.

Also, I never condemned cheaters. I merely stated she's trying to make it easy for them to excuse their behavior. Whether it's right or wrong.

[Breakaway]

Originally Posted by m4xx

well, you usually don't **** friends, so there is no health issue with them having other friends too. friends do not give you HIV or other crap. In my opinion, it's your duty to ask your partner if they are fine with you ****ing other people. And if they are not, and you can't deal with that, then you have a problem I guess

I'm not saying that strict monogamy is the only way of living, but in a partnership I expect my partner to care a little about me and get the idea that I may not approve of them having sex with someone else, so that they would ask me first.

So would it be okay then if he always gets medical tests done to make sure he is clean of anything before he fornicates with you?

[ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Adelina

I was just reading in a book, a random example of a wife cheating on a husband, which led to a divorce.

Why don't couples allow for outside relationships, as is natural, rather than breaking up a family over it?

It seems that rather primitive reactions like jealousy, territory, and possession are some of the reactions that hold people back from permitting their partner to see others.
As long as there's a stable primary family unit bonded by love.
Another hundred years or so, perhaps humans will be over it, and open relationships will be the norm?

Hmmm? How about AIDS? Herpes? The possibility of bringing a child into the picture? It would be so nice to watch your own kids do without while you help your hubby write the child support check. But of course if she gets pregnant she could increase the family's income

I can think of lots of reasons to not tolerate infidelity before you even get to the part about a vow my husband took to forsake all others. As far as I'm concerned, he can have all the others he wants once the divorce is final.

[ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Breakaway

So would it be okay then if he always gets medical tests done to make sure he is clean of anything before he fornicates with you?

Testing wouldn't work. He'd have to go weeks between partners to prove he's clean. Some bugs don't show up right away. Take AIDS. It can take months to get a positive result.