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06-18-2008, 06:03 PM
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 I want my independence! Hi, English is not my native tongue. So, please bear with my English. I have been married for 8 years. We did not know each other for too long before our wedding. Just like many other Indian couple, we spoke for 2 days and decided we were going to marry each other. I have not come to regret this decision so far but our marriage is going through a rough patch and I want advice from you all to fix this. My husband is extremely protective and controlling. I've been in this country for six years now. My husband still treats me like I'm new to the place. I am not allowed to go out alone. I don't have a driver's license yet, although I know to drive very well. He won't add my name on his auto insurance. Hence I cannot drive. I don't have money and even if I need anything I have to ask him a number of times before he gives me any. I feel I am capable of finding a job, but it needs some running around and seeking information as I need work permit. I have discussed with him several times about my wish to go to a college, but he says he is not going to settle here permenantly and so spending on my education is a waste. We have a son who is 2 years old. I am getting exhausted with him at home all the time. We both have to wait for him to come back from work to go out anywhere and if he is tired when he returns home, we have settle for a small walk just outside our place. The wait continues till weekend. He sometimes rejects my requests on the face and sometimes he does things slyly so I can't do anything against his wish. For example, if I want to go out with my friends some evening and tell him he has to take care of the kid for a couple of hours, he'd tell me he has a severe headache but that it is still OK for me to go...I either become frustrated and call it off or pretend to buy his story and call it off...either way, he had his way. Like yesterday, it was nice and breezy outside and I was exhausted with the kid all day long...as soon as he stepped in, I said I wanted to take a break and take a walk. He said...are you crazy...it's going to rain anytime. I said it's OK and he kept telling me I should be stupid to go walking in the rain. I could've just slammed the door and gone but that doesn't give me happiness. I want him to understand that I have a life and I don't always want to be a wife or a mommy. I want to be myself too, sometimes atleast. There has not been a single thing he has given me without a fight. I have always had to argue, fight or struggle my way through and now I don't have the energy for this anymore. He has started feeling that I am stressing him out with my constant arguments and that this is affecting his work. So, I've stopped arguing about my needs. Every morning when I sit by the window and look at the smartly dressed women on the way to their workplace, I feel so terrible like I've wasted my life and I become anxious thinking if I will spend a life of regret and yearning. I want to be independent just like most women here are. I want to do so many things in my life - train for marathon, go to Barnes N Noble and just spend a lazy afternoon browsing books, make new friends, explore this part of the world, swim, drive, shop by myself...are these things too much to ask for? Please help me find a way to make him understand. I have talked it over, I have cried about it, I have been depressed for days together, I have fought, argued...but, I don't seem to get a permenent solution. Please help me regain my life.      |
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06-18-2008, 06:24 PM
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| Sangeetha, you are very eloquent in your use of the English language. You also sound like a kind and strong person. Right now I am not sure what my advice would be. I just wanted to let you know that you seem lovely and I know that you will get some good advice here. Hang in there.
__________________ I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies. This is the dawning of the rest of our lives. --Green Day The more I see, the less I know, the more I'd like to let it go. --Red Hot Chili Peppers |
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06-18-2008, 06:40 PM
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| My observation would be that for one reason or the other he has a deeply ingrained need to be in control of you. If he goes out of his way to slyly coerce you into doing things his way then he is probably aware of it, and has no intention of stopping. If he is calling you crazy (as in "incapable of rational thought") then he has little respect for you as a person. Using insults of this sort to win an argument is a hallmark of a destructive and abusive relationship. "You disagree with me? That must be because you are an idiot. If you don't want to be an idiot, then you must agree with me." This one is harder for me to explain, but from your writing style I suspect that you've already adapted the submissive role that he has designated to you. Since all of this was going on for several years by now it has probably developed into a pattern for him, which would be hard to break. This is just my analysis. Decide for yourself what it means to you, but I would prefer if someone replied to my post with their opinion on whether I am correct in my assessment of the situation or not. |
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06-18-2008, 06:52 PM
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06-18-2008, 07:24 PM
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| Hmm, that was a good question. Made me think. Consider this statement: Quote:
It seems that whenever you want to do something, you ask him if you can do it first and expect him to grant it to you. Which creates a situation where he objects to himself giving it to you. By asking him whether you can do something, you yourself give him the power to decide. And because he doesn't want to be responsible if something bad happens, he chooses the safe way and says no. "What if I allow my wife to go for a walk and someone will try to mug her? I better make her stay home and play it safe." As I see it: 1) Through repeated reinforcement (such as denying you even the smallest of things) he crated a dominant - submissive relationship between the two of you. 2) You want to break out of the patterns he created, and establish a relationship of equals. But the problem is that the way you want to achieve (2) only reinforces the patterns in (1). "Can you please make me an equal in the relationship?" - again, you give him the power to decide, and he chooses the safe way and says no. Because it's easier for him that way, than to take full responsibility for the actions that would ensue if he said yes. I'd write more, but I'm about to be late so I'll have to cut it here. Tell me if this makes any sense or if you think I've made a mistake in my judgment at some point. |
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06-19-2008, 02:13 PM
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| Yes. That's a very objctive way of looking at it. I should refrain from asking him things. There are things I really cannot do without asking, but the ones that I can, I should go ahead and stop asking him! Thanks so much. |
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06-19-2008, 06:18 PM
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| sangeetha, Why don't you try not asking him, just telling him? Say, "I am going for a walk, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, from now on, at 6:00pm. You will look after our child." and do it. See what happens? He may try to "punish" you by not watching your son perfectly. He may do things to get back at you. Depending on what he does, it will tell you what kind of man he is. It looks to me your husband wants you to be some one you are not. You have to decide if you will be happy being the wife he wants (submissive, under his control, incapable of making any decisions on her own), or if you can break free and become the woman you want to be. Either road will be difficult, but it looks like you have a decision to make. Your relationship does not seem like it is one built from love and support. It seems like your husband wants to dominate and control you. You need to decide if this is the life you want, and if this is what you want your son to learn. How your husband treats you is how your son will see women. Is this what you want for your son? If you are looking for some one here to tell you to leave him, he is not good for you, I don't think anyone will say that. But I'll tell you this, if my husband treated me like yours did, I would leave him. This is not the kind of husband I would want my son to become, and this is not the kind of man I want to share my life with. I understand cultural differences, but there are men who can break free of this limited view. Yes, it will be hard. Yes you are in a difficult situation. But the first step to change is deciding you will change the situation. Then do it. I also wanted to add: It looks like there is a problem of compatibility here too. If it turns out he is not the right one for you, and you are not the right one for him, you can still part ways nicely. Just realize, and forgive yourself and him, and say, hey, this is not working out. We tried it, doesn't work, let's free each other. It's all about how you go about severing the bonds. Severing bonds can be a positive experience, it doesn't have to be negative. No matter how he responds, you can always respond with kindness. Harder to do, but possible, if you forgive him, and yourself. (forgiving means letting to of the anger) Last edited by ns123 : 06-19-2008 at 06:32 PM. |
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06-19-2008, 07:02 PM
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| I'm not fully familiar with your culture, so I'm not sure what kind of restraints your are bound by. However, I do know that you are fighting your husband like he is an enemy. You are blaming him because you are dissatisfied with your life. But how is it his fault any more or less than it is your own? There are two ways of looking at this; either your husband's power over your life is absolute, and there is nothing you can do against his will, or his power over your life is limited to the power that you give to him. If his power is absolute, it is of no use to look at him as an enemy because that means that an enemy has total control of your life. He is the rain, which you cannot stop from coming no matter how hard you fight. Does it do any good to get angry at the rain? So live peacefully within the constraints that he makes for you. This does not mean to be defeated by him and to mope for the rest of your life, it simply means that you accept his power over you and live as you wish within the bounds of that power. However, if his power is limited by what you give to him, then you are free to do as you wish. You do not need to fight him to get what you want, because you only need accept his terms when you wish to. If he says you cannot go for a walk, then it is your decision as to whether to listen to him or not. If you are willing to accept the consequences of the actions you take, you are free to do as you wish. Right now what you seem to want is similar to the power that he has. You want to be able to tell him what you want and have him listen to you. How is this different from what he does to you? This way of living creates only anger and strife for both of you. If you instead listen to his demands without unconditionally obeying them, then you will be the one that is free and he will be the one that is frustrated for trying to control you, as you are frustrated with trying to control him. It will possibly make him realize that it is his own feeling of need to control you that is making him unhappy, rather than blaming you for it. If you need something from him, such as car insurance, then you can ask him what he wants from you for him to give it to you. If he asks too much, or will not give it at all, then you must simply either live without it or find a way to get it from somewhere else. Above all, do not blame him for your situation, because you are as responsible for the way things are as he it. You are the one who listens to his controlling demands, you are the one that allows him the power over your life. Your anger does not come from him, it comes from yourself. It is your anger and you can blame no one else for it. You are also the only one that can truly do anything about it.
__________________ We must conquer ourselves, and allow our selves to conquer the world. |
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06-19-2008, 07:06 PM
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| The Cloud - you are awesome The Cloud: Wow, you are totally awesome. Your message is powerful and incredibly insightful. Now I feel so small next to you. I'm not being sarcastic either. You rock. |
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06-19-2008, 07:28 PM
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| [quote=The Cloud;202534]I'm not fully familiar with your culture, so I'm not sure what kind of restraints your are bound by. However, I do know that you are fighting your husband like he is an enemy. You are blaming him because you are dissatisfied with your life. Yes. I am dissatisfied with my life and I am angry because I am constantly dissatisfied. I agree that by changing myself I can change my situation a little for the better. But, I have tried not listening to him and not giving him the power, but it hurts me eventually when there is unrest in the family. If he says I can't go and then I still go, things ahead get worse for me because the next time, when it is important, he resorts to a way I cannot overcome by just disobeying. Well, what I meant to ask on the forum was if there is anything I could say/tell/show/ask him to read or anyyyyyy such thing which will make him understand that every person is entitled to his own life and that he is not supposed to interfere in small things such as my everyday freedom. If you need something from him, such as car insurance, then you can ask him what he wants from you for him to give it to you. If he asks too much, or will not give it at all, then you must simply either live without it or find a way to get it from somewhere else. somewhere else?! Thanks so much for your inputs. It is helping me see the problem from a whole new angle. |
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06-19-2008, 07:35 PM
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| ns123, Thanks for your concern and comment. Divorce is not an option. One reason is the culture but the other reason is that I strongly believe there are imperfections in everyone and unless the guy is TOTALLY EVIL, there is no reason to leave. My husband is definitely a good man except this thing is looming so large that I am overlooking the better aspects of him at the moment. |
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06-19-2008, 07:37 PM
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| sangeetha, I see a large part of the problem is, you cannot control him either. No matter what you say to him, give him to read, it will not change him. You cannot change your husband, he must change himself. There is nothing you can do to make him change. You can talk to him, but from what you wrote, it doesn't seem to be helping. Your husband cannot change you either. He cannot make you the submissive wife who just serves him and is happy with that. There is nothing he can say, give you to read, that will make you change. Do you see where I'm going here? Your husband and you seem to be in a struggle to try to change each other into something that the other one is not. And it doesn't look like either you or him are willing to become what the other person wants. So, the only thing you can do is: 1. become the wife he wants and change yourself. Accept that and be happy with that. 2. leave him Being angry, frustrated, dissatisfied is not going to change your situation. You will just get more of it. You are the one who can start the change in your situation. You must make a decision. You can always decide that being angry, frustrated, and dissatisfied is fine and live the rest of your life like that. Either way, you must decide. |
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06-19-2008, 07:46 PM
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| Here are a couple of resources I think might help you. These are not so much for your husband to read, but for you. The Center for Nonviolent Communication The Official Site for The Work of Byron Katie As I think more about this, I am wondering if you have talked with him and asked him what the reasons are for him wanting you to do these things, for not having freedom? I am sure that there are obvious reasons (be it cultural, religious, etc) but I think that there is always more to it than that. The non-violent communication technique might help here. You would go into the conversation only trying to understand his perspective, his feelings and his motivation. It concerns me where you say "If he says I can't go and then I still go, things ahead get worse for me because the next time, when it is important, he resorts to a way I cannot overcome by just disobeying."
__________________ I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies. This is the dawning of the rest of our lives. --Green Day The more I see, the less I know, the more I'd like to let it go. --Red Hot Chili Peppers |
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06-19-2008, 07:49 PM
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| "Your husband cannot change you either. He cannot make you the submissive wife who just serves him and is happy with that. There is nothing he can say, give you to read, that will make you change. " Yeah, this is right. This comes like a rude awakening. Having said that divorce is not an option, I'm shivering to think about how I am going to become the submissive wife... |
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06-19-2008, 08:15 PM
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| How about a marriage counselor, sangeetha? If your husband won't go, you could go by yourself. A really good therapist might be a great path to power for you in making choices that have you loving your life. p.s...you don't have to go around announcing to your husband that divorce is not an option. You might want to keep that little tidbit to yourself.  |
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06-19-2008, 08:20 PM
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| Aspiring to clarity, A part of the problem definitely lies within me and I am meant to refine myself. I have always spoken to him about my needs and my expectations. I have seldom tried to understand his reasoning. Well, I've always concluded that his fears are baseless and his limitations unmeaningful. I'll surely use the resources to see how I can objectively find solutions or consolations to the problem at hand. By saying that it gets worse, I definitely do not mean violence or any third degree treatments, he simply outsmarts my disobedience by talking or by pulling some trick (like I said a headache or a bad day at work is enough to keep me quiet). Btw, my culture or religion has nothing to do with his control. All those gender dominance that culture/religion prescribed were gone in 19th century itself (atleast in the educated class in India). |
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06-19-2008, 08:24 PM
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| Quote:
p.s...you don't have to go around announcing to your husband that divorce is not an option. You might want to keep that little tidbit to yourself. sure  |
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06-19-2008, 08:34 PM
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I completely understand that you would be reluctant to look so closely at his reasoning since I too find it backward that he acts this way. However in my own life, I've found it very useful to put myself in the other person's shoes and really try to understand where they are coming from. It's not so much that I want to come to a place of condoning their actions or agreeing with them, not at all. I just feel that when you get inside their motives you can respond better and find solutions. Non-violent communication techniques may open up a door between the two of you where you could come to an agreement you can both be happy with.
__________________ I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies. This is the dawning of the rest of our lives. --Green Day The more I see, the less I know, the more I'd like to let it go. --Red Hot Chili Peppers |
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06-20-2008, 06:45 PM
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I am not telling you this so that you will blame yourself rather than him. I am saying this so that you will accept responsibility for your situation, because only by accepting responsibility will you have the ability to change it. If you do not accept responsibility for your own emotions and your own actions, then you will always be a puppet whose strings are attached to others such as your husband. You are the one that allows yourself to become upset when he has a "headache" or a bad day at work. Your anger does not come from him. When he speaks, anger does not come out of his mouth and go into your brain. Only words do. It is you that creates anger and frustration at those words. Since you are the one that is creating the anger, that means you are the one that can stop it at its source: you. It takes two to fight. If you do not provide him with a combatant, then you will no longer have to fight the war. His control is in your mind for the most part, excepting cases where he is physically restricting you such as with car insurance. Since his control is in YOUR mind, you are the one that has control of his control over you.
__________________ We must conquer ourselves, and allow our selves to conquer the world. |
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06-20-2008, 06:54 PM
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 And your message is by no means small, it's just more action-oriented. Action is rarely eloquent.
__________________ We must conquer ourselves, and allow our selves to conquer the world. |
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06-21-2008, 05:49 AM
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| Hi Sangeetha, you say that in your culture there aren't any issues of dominance and control etc. However you still say, "When I disobey him", or words to that effect. This suggests that there is still some notion of him being the "ruler" of the household, and you being ruled by him. You shudder at the thought of being forever the submissive wife, but until something changes, that is what you will remain as long as both you and he believe that when you do what YOU want you are disobeying him. Honestly, I am not really sure what you can do while you have no financial resources of your own. I say you just do what someone else suggested and tell your husband you are going out for a walk and when, and don't back down if he tries to make it difficult for you. Don't let him make you feel guilty by saying he has a headache etc. etc. After awhile it may become clear that he can't manipulate you. Now, I'm also not sure of the way you see things financially, because here in Australia a parent who earns no income will still be provided some form of government income, regardless of their partner's income, which I guess means it's a lot easier for a woman to leave her husband here, as she'd always have some financial resources to fall back on (although a man could make it difficult for his wife still). But regardless of how it is, you are entitled to have some income? Or something? Staying home and raising a child is not doing "nothing" and if your husband doesn't want you to work then you are basically forced to rely on him 100% for money, and yet, in any equal partnership you should be able to have some say over where that money goes. Anyway, I don't know if what I've said has been any help to you, but I wish you luck! |
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06-21-2008, 08:48 AM
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| sangeetha, As a mother of 2 small children, my heart goes out to you. Motherhood is a very demanding job and it is easy to resent having to do this all the time. --------------------------------------- I think The Cloud is Right On with this one, but I want to point out a few things... If you look at the source of why you are angry or dissatisfied, you will probably find that you think that being angry or dissatisfied is a key to changing your situation to something that you prefer more than your current situation. This is a lie. You will be so much more capable of moving toward what you desire if you drop the thought patterns of anger and dissatisfaction. Even if you take the same actions, they will be more effective if they come from an accepting heart. So set intentions (I intend to be more independent), "imagine your blessings" like in Steve's recent post, be grateful for any independent time he grants you... and then accept the present. You may be amazed at how you can be transformed by dropping just a few of your negative thought patterns, and |