Gay brains structured like those of the opposite sex

[pianoperformer]

Gay brains structured like those of the opposite sex - sex - 16 June 2008 - New Scientist

What do you think? Quite interesting, though not very surprising, I think.

[Brutha]

The article is of poor quality and it is difficult to know something about the study by reading the article.

In general it isn't surprising that your behavior comes from how your brains are structured.

[pianoperformer]

I wonder how you think the article is of poor quality? it seems well-researched to me, and quite informative.

My only question would be what the difference would be in the brains of those who are bisexual.

[Dan.Linehan]

Personally, I don't think I was born gay, but I also know someone who is.

In my experience there are two ways to develop an attraction towards the same sex. One is to be born that way -- as the article suggests. The other is the creation of a sexual association with the same sex caused by direct experience before or during puberty.

[The David]

I second the bisexual question. I'm also interested in knowing hos this relates to people with different gender-identities that don't fit into the gay-straight paradigm (i.e masculine gay guys, feminine lesbians, the transgendered, etc). This article explains why my gay friends wear women's underwear. It doesn't explain why some of my other friends find their own gender attractive but aren't interested in gay sex, or why sexual attraction seems to fluctuate in some individuals.

[Ceros]

Very interesting. Though, what of asexuals?

[The David]

All left brain.

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by Ceros

Very interesting. Though, what of asexuals?

I believe all people have a sexuality.

Those who claim not to have it usually mean they just don't fit the stereotype of seducers with hyperlibidos which is imposed upon most people today.

[Erebos]

Originally Posted by Brutha

The article is of poor quality and it is difficult to know something about the study by reading the article.

In general it isn't surprising that your behavior comes from how your brains are structured.

Well, this is the reader's digest version. The actual research paper is referenced at the bottom of the article.

You're right though. All our behaviours are due to the fact that our brains are structured differently. It's kind of silly to think otherwise.

[Brutha]

I wonder how you think the article is of poor quality? it seems well-researched to me, and quite informative.

1) The study says that there is a large variety between different homosexuals and also between different heterosexuals.
The groups are more significantly diverse then the difference between homosexuals and heteros.
If you pick a random homosexual you couldn't look at his brain and reduct from that that he is a homosexual (according to the numbers).
AI (a measure for the differences between brain hemispheres) is 0.0004 +- 0.025 for homosexual males while 0.003 +- 0.007 for heterosexual males.
From that high varience between homosexuals you can argue what Dan suggests: There are homosexuals that were born that way and some that developed their homosexuality later.
The data of the study allows for both interpretations.

2)Talking like that about the amygdala is a give away is a oversimplification of what happens in the brain. It may well be some other process that makes woman more likely to have more depressions.

[Ceros]

I believe all people have a sexuality.

Those who claim not to have it usually mean they just don't fit the stereotype of seducers with hyperlibidos which is imposed upon most people today.

You may "believe" it, but asexuality is a scientific fact for multiple mammalian species, not just humans, and has several studies backing up its existence.

And even if we go back to your own argument, why wouldn't it be possible for someone to be asexual?
Remove a small part of the brain that is responsible for sex, and viola - you have a non-sexual. And with the brain being as versatile as it is, who are you to say that someone can't be naturally born without that specific part of the brain?

[ogrekilleat]

I believe all people have a sexuality.

Those who claim not to have it usually mean they just don't fit the stereotype of seducers with hyperlibidos which is imposed upon most people today.

No, most people who identify as asexual mean something more than that. Also, if someone claims to be asexual, what's the point or the goal of not believing them?

[The David]

Uh. . .you tell us. You're the one who doesn't believe it. lol

Asexuality can also be an orientation. Some people just don't find people attractive. They may still experience sexual arousal from physical stimulation. That's probably what a Kinsey 8 would be.

[Lenie]

There's a much more in-depth explanation of the whole subject in this month's Psychology Today.

In it they explain that researchers learned there's a "man-loving gene" in the mother that "causes" same sex orientation, among other factors.

Psychology Today: Finding the Switch

[blazer1]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Gay brains structured like those of the opposite sex - sex - 16 June 2008 - New Scientist

What do you think? Quite interesting, though not very surprising, I think.

I did not read the article - but I can tell you this:

A mind and therefore body, is attracted to the opposite.

A mind is conditioned since the day of birth.

A gay person is NOT born gay - not necessarily, through genetics a mind may already have those electrical connections to be gay ... but generally people are born straight.

I have not read up on this, but it is through self observation of people and myself.

Say a child is born, with connections within the brain which depict a heterosexual person ... through life experiences ... electrical connections in the brain may change towards making the person gay.

These electrical connections that change, expresses itself as a male who is feminine in thought, and therefore attracted to males.

Or for lesbians the opposite.

SO, this study of how brain structures of a gay person is different is almost common sense .. and not even worth writing about.

Of course the brain structure is different!!

The point is however, through physical differences ... a baby is predeposed to being straight. I love girls ... they are so girly ... but if my mind was already girly, and i identified as a feminine person ... then girls would not be atttractive ... the mentality of a guy would be attractive.

You have to bring it down to the REASON WHY single-cell organisms were better off when they combined!!! (i.e. the first form of sex with another kind).

do you get me? opposites, different beings when they conceive a new life ... the child is much stronger!

why do you think incest breeds so many mentally disabled people?

why do you think mixed-race girls are so good looking?

why do you think in movies, there are half-alien, half-human beings? hehe

[pianoperformer]

Blazer1, I find it hard to believe you'd argue even against the research. There's no proof that some people aren't born gay, regardless what you might think.

By the way, are you saying because someone has more feminine qualities, they are gay? I don't accept that, either. I myself am rather more sensative than many guys I know, yet I'm definitely straight.


I'm just saying, things might not work like you think they do, but you seem rather reluctant and set against considering that as a possibility, from the many posts I've observed from you.

[blazer1]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Blazer1, I find it hard to believe you'd argue even against the research. There's no proof that some people aren't born gay, regardless what you might think.

By the way, are you saying because someone has more feminine qualities, they are gay? I don't accept that, either. I myself am rather more sensative than many guys I know, yet I'm definitely straight.


I'm just saying, things might not work like you think they do, but you seem rather reluctant and set against considering that as a possibility, from the many posts I've observed from you.

you need to carefully read the words i write, i cover all grounds.

[PianoManGidley]

Originally Posted by blazer1

A mind is conditioned since the day of birth.

More than this, the human brain is still physically developing after birth. To quote Timothy Taylor (archaeologist at the University of Bradford in the UK, and author of "The Buried Soul: How Humans Invented Death") from his article "The Human Brain is a Cultural Artifact" (found in the book "What Is Your Dangerous Idea?: Today's Leading Thinkers on the Unthinkable," edited by John Brockman):

Although because of the biomechanical constraints of a bipedal pelvis the hominid child cannot be born with a big head (and thus with a large initial brain capacity), it can now be born underdeveloped. That is to say, the sling allows fetuses to be born in an ever more ontogenically retarded state. This trend, which humans do indeed display, is called neoteny. The retention of earlier features for a longer time means that the total developmental sequence extends far beyond the nine months of natural gestation. Hominid children, born underdeveloped, could grow their crania outside the womb, in the pseudomarsupial pouch of an infant-carrying sling.

According to Wikipedia, this extension in brain development means that our brains aren't FULLY developed until about the age of 23 years. So what does this mean for the argument of nature vs. nurture in regards to sexual orientation? My own belief--and I am speaking here as a gay man--is that the jury is still out, and nothing is completely conclusive either way, but my best bet is that it's some combination of both.

A gay person is NOT born gay - not necessarily, through genetics a mind may already have those electrical connections to be gay ... but generally people are born straight.

I have not read up on this, but it is through self observation of people and myself.

If you're not a scientist who has researched this extensively through proper method, I do not think you have the universal right to claim so ardently that we gays aren't BORN gay. I'm not saying that I believe I was simply born gay (see above), but it isn't fair for you to sit their in armchair theory and mild, crude sampling and come to such a hardcore conclusion.

... a baby is predeposed to being straight. I love girls ... they are so girly ... but if my mind was already girly, and i identified as a feminine person ... then girls would not be atttractive ... the mentality of a guy would be attractive.

You're essentially implying that all gay men are effeminate, which is simply not true. I can tell you first hand that there are plenty of gay men (including myself) who are just as manly (if not more so) than most straight men. At the same time, I've met many effeminate men who are straight.

And no, you DIDN'T cover all grounds.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by PianoManGidley

More than this, the human brain is still physically developing after birth. To quote Timothy Taylor (archaeologist at the University of Bradford in the UK, and author of "The Buried Soul: How Humans Invented Death") from his article "The Human Brain is a Cultural Artifact" (found in the book "What Is Your Dangerous Idea?: Today's Leading Thinkers on the Unthinkable," edited by John Brockman):



According to Wikipedia, this extension in brain development means that our brains aren't FULLY developed until about the age of 23 years. So what does this mean for the argument of nature vs. nurture in regards to sexual orientation? My own belief--and I am speaking here as a gay man--is that the jury is still out, and nothing is completely conclusive either way, but my best bet is that it's some combination of both.



If you're not a scientist who has researched this extensively through proper method, I do not think you have the universal right to claim so ardently that we gays aren't BORN gay. I'm not saying that I believe I was simply born gay (see above), but it isn't fair for you to sit their in armchair theory and mild, crude sampling and come to such a hardcore conclusion.



You're essentially implying that all gay men are effeminate, which is simply not true. I can tell you first hand that there are plenty of gay men (including myself) who are just as manly (if not more so) than most straight men. At the same time, I've met many effeminate men who are straight.

And no, you DIDN'T cover all grounds.

Blazer1 is talking out of his butt. You can't tell by just observing people. You have to read and do research if you want to give an opinion like "no one is born gay". I mean, that's a ridiculous thing to say. You have no scientific proof or anything. Homosexuality didn't come out of nowhere. Something genetic must have happened somewhere. My wife and I take our son to the playground and occasionally we'll see a child that has tendencies before the age of 5. It's quite obvious. Some people had to have been born gay, just like some people had to have been born heterosexual. Some animals are homosexual too. How could they have "Learned" it? I've got my engineering degree and I've studied a great deal of science and most scientific people would never make a statement so absolute as what you said. It's just not realistic and it sounds very closed minded.

[blazer1]

You guys seem to be missing the words "-not necessarily" implying most people aren't born gay, but some are due to the physical differences in their brain structure.

It's very logical what I put out there thats why I can appear as if I am talking out of my butt.

Sure the brain is still developing after birth, heck, the brain is still developing electrical pathways until the time of death.

That is not the point of it all. The point is, for a person to be gay or straight, there are different electrons firing in their head, in different paths or patterns. If you like, the circuitry is different.

So while there are some who are born with a gay circuit, MOST actually develop it through life experiences. I mean, gay people have been around for ages ... and if you are pro-evolutionist ... then why would gayness get passed genetically?

And dont forget, the stimulus which causes you to get aroused can be changed through repetition ... if for several years of your early life you allowed a table to give you an erection ... then heck, you will be attracted to tables. Understanding how the mind works will help.

But then again, I could be wrong, what do I know.

edited:

AND it's funny how people firmly believe humans are Born Gay. I mean I have clearly defined my outlook on it, where some are but most arent - and explained my reasoning. Yet you prefer to stick to ALL are - that's just lame.

[dali]

We must be evolving right enough. They are starting to seriously look at the fact that we have got brains. The comments after the article are very sad and amusing. All these feelings flying about, but i particularly enjoyed the first one: about the rabbits and the mascarra. Tremendous.