is he capable of changing?

[muddledmind]

I am a 25 yr old mother, with a 4 yr old little girl with my partner of 6 yrs.
We have a lovey home, a beautiful healthy daughter, two well paid jobs and generally a very good standard of living but none of the above i can really appreciate fully, aside from my daughter obviously!
The reason being that my partner has some issues and 'his' own way of life that dispite trying i feel i cannot live with. There are always incidents that i find in our relationship just not acceptable, he has not had the best role models as parents and has shaped his life directly from his fathers way of living.
This has resulted in him growing up into at times an extemely selfish, arrogant, lying and alcohol abusing man. He has always liked a drink, even before i met him, but the difference there is that we didnt have our daughter then and you'd hope and maybe even assume that when you become a parent you grow up and mature into a decent role model and prioritise!
This sadly didnt stop and includes driving whilst under the influence as well, he has just finished a second ban and has been advised that if he continued to do so there would be a custodial sentence awaiting him!
He's driven under the influence several times since on a regular basis, despite my disgust and total disaproval and him apologising it always seems to happen again.
I want to make it clear that if i were present there would be no way that i would let him go near the car and would confiscate the keys but i am the one at home with our daughter!
This causes me great alarm that it does not occur to him what he's risking, everytime he gets in the car he's risking me having to tell our daughter that she cant see her daddy because he's been sent to prison and to explain why we lost our home as daddy would have lost his job due to it all and we couldn't pay all the bills from just my wages. More importantly each time he's risking innocent peoples lives when he starts the engine!

The alcohol will make him lie, it will make him selfish and loose all his responsibility within our family, staying out till he feels like coming home, knowing that he'll be in the dog house, he also is a keen sports man so there is always the link between the sport and club house and it seems impossible for him to pass up on a pint afterwards no matter what our plans as a family may be.

Lies i really do not find acceptable, without trust i cannot feel at ease, i cant live a contented life because i think if there is no trust what have you got as a foundation?
Dont get me wrong but we have had lovely times all together and its great 80% of the time but when he messes up its the things that are really morally wrong and i cannot have our child growing up with these standards set for her as a child deserves the best possible upbringing you can offer so if it means leaving my house for good and starting over then i will.
I feel that i deserve better and i know i do deep down but i really love this man and have tried my hardest to explain that these things are wrong and the effect they all have on me, not to mention our daughter and he cannot understand where i come from, and sometimes i get 'this is the way i am, i cant help it, either leave me or accept me' or others depending on the severity of it 'i'm so sorry, i'll never do it again' bla bla.

It has become so hard for me that a week ago i left him and me & my daughter moved out, like before when i have left for a night or two he's full of 'i'm sorry's' and he'll change but i have offered the relationship councilling and alcohol abuse and he's refused and now i'm at my witts end because i know we both love eachother and want this to work but i'm not sure how to show him exactly how he's behaving is so,so wrong!??!

His father is a really unpleasant person at times, the kind most cringe or laugh at but my partner has picked up all of his worst traits and for him its such a normal way of life, they are a very strong willed family and my partner is the same way inclined, he will not take any constructive critisism about how maybe the upbringing may have influenced who he's grown up to be.
I feel like im experiencing a nightmare, i am one of the only people that has contstantly supported him through tough times and when he's had huge runnin's with his father and i know that this is not who he is, he has a lovely side to him but he cant seem to think any thing through, or put into practise what he wants to be!
Has anyone been through simular to offer some advice, i'm adamant that i will not be going back if there are no steps taken to seek help and for me to see a significant change because all i am doing is upsetting myself each time battling to make him see how wrong some of these things are when i'm not getting anywhere.
This is why i left, it was my last chance for him to see exactly what he is loosing and hope that we could achieve a turning point but i'm so frustrated because its impossible to get through to someone when your telling them everything that they witnessed growing up is completely disfunctional!

Help!!! I really dont want to break up our family and i dont want him to ruin his life and regret when its too late

[Thur]

Dear MuddledMind,

I'd like to give you my thoughts on your troublesome situation, but I don't feel like the person. I am not the qualified person I think you need right now. Find somebody professional who can help you with this. It might be expensive, but we're talking about your life here! Get your life values clear and think about what your ideal life would be like. You can live your ideal life!

Good luck with all your issues!!

[robc]

unfortunately alot of people require hitting rock bottom before they can realize they need to change.

Sometimes people need to lose everything to see what their life has become and what they did to contribute to that loss.

Alcoholism is an incredibly difficult addiction to get over and make no mistake, your spouse is an alcoholic. Why isn't he enrolled in a program to take care of this addiction?

You are right... his past & his upbringing contributed to his existing status today. We're all patterns of behavior, as children we look at our parents to learn how we're supposed to live our lives, it's a subconscious thing, you don't realize you're picking up the habits and doing these same things. If it's brought up to you, you will even deny it and get angry and argue and say that "it's horrible that someone thinks I'm just like my mother/father, etc."

You do love him, I can see that in your post. You are extremely compassionate and understanding - it's actually quite refreshing to read that someone can still have that kind of emotion for someone who causes them so much pain.

Yes, I do believe he can change.
But then again I'm of the opinion that everyone can change.
We all have untapped potential - we all walk around everyday only utilizing a small percentage of our abilities.

Change isn't the issue, everyone can change. Sites like stevepavlina.com are examples of large communities of users that actively look for info & input on how to improve their lives - on how to change for the better.

Change isn't impossible.

What you have to see is if his desire to change is present.
What will make him change? What will cause him to open up his eyes and realize that his alcoholic addiction & behavior is killing the trust in your relationship and removing the security from you & child's life.

It may not be politically correct to offer this advice but I will anyways but again it's just advice, take advice from other people and determine what you need to do.

I would say you need to create a fear of loss in him. Don't just stay away for a day or two. That's not doing anything. He knows you will come back, you have in the past, he knows that saying he's sorry brings you back, he has a routine in place, he has learned a pattern of behavior and he's just going through the steps he has learned to get you back. You make it easy on him, you don't take a stand for what you believe in, you keep giving him chances and he'll keep taking advantage of those chances and he'll screw up again (sorry I'm being honest).

Move out and possibly for good. You have to believe that your life is worth it and so is that of your child. Do you have value to yourself? Do you believe you're worth a better life? If so, take a stand and say that this bulls_ _t is enough and you won't take anymore.

Tell him you've given him enough chances to clean up his life and he takes you for granted. Tell him that he has to get into an alcohol addiction program and that if he doesn't, you will call the cops and tell them that he has been drinking. Better him go to jail than for you to deal with a car accident that causes him or someone else alot of pain (or worse).

Tell him that if his wife & child aren't worth it to him to change and become a better man, than it's not worth it for you to live with him.

Be strong, stand up for yourself, take charge of your life. He's currently communicating to you that his behavior is acceptable and that he is allowed to undermine the security of his family, his wife & child. This is wrong, his job should be to assist in providing security for his family, not the opposite.

If he isn't willing to change (because he can change, it's whether or not he is willing to that is the question), you can't waste your life with him anymore.

Hopefully this didn't come off as too harsh - I just wanted to let you know what i think is necessary. Life is a precious thing, it isn't to be wasted. Everyone, men & women alike, deserve to be treated fairly, honestly, respectfully. When you're in a relationship with someone, you need to consider yourself lucky to be with that person & vice versa. If a spouse takes advantage of another spouse, it's wrong and it needs to be dealt with.

Be strong, I wish you the best of luck in whatever decisions you make concerning this, I know it will be hard, but I think you can do it. Keep us posted on what's going on.

[muddledmind]

Thank you for your reply Robc, you dont understand how grateful i am for the time you must have taken to respond to my original thread and your words of wisdom.

They confirmed what i was already thinking, i consider myself as a fairly level headed person who is 100% confident with her morals and how i believe people should behave, so after years of trying to be persuaded otherwise its very reassuring to have these things backed up, especially by a random person who is entitled to have what ever take on life they believe in rather than just family and friends support, which you could at times say is because they are protecting my best interests with their guidance!

I am very lucky as i have a good support network around me, i have my parents, friends and other family members on my side to turn to and confide in but on the other hand he will never talk to anyone, he will never open up, almost as if its because if he does start to he is scared about what might come spilling out or if it will ever stop!
I have suggested on many occassions that he does but there has only been very few times where he has, and only slightly. From that i gathered that he feels he cant trust or rely on people and he obviously likes to keep people at a distance to protect himself, and will make out that he's a cold hearted man who can survive on his own by blocking things out and that seems to be the tactic.

I agree that anyone can change, its what you want from life that drives you to become the person you are to a certain extent.
I dont think there is alot of strength to him, its more a general weakness that forces the attitude to become arrogant to protect what he try's to ignore inside.
I can honestly say that i could not tell you what i think he really feels about me, our life or future. I live my life, and have done for some time in conflict with myself. My heart will tell me he doesn't mean the things that he will say or do and my head will rationalise it and alert me to how wrong it all is and that actions speak louder than words, its how you act that counts isn't it?

All this has resulted in me not really knowing if there is hope because i am so drained by all these mixed emotions and its not fair on me, im only human and im the mother of his child which should speak for itself.

His father is a drink driver too, he will lecture him about how stupid he is for doing it and then do it himself or worse, take his son out in the car with him!! How can you expect a child/man to listen to an apparent role model when his dad is making it clear that his words of parental advice are nonsense!
I could go on forever giving examples of this disfunctional lifestyle but i guess you get the drift.

I have decided that i dont want my life this way and he has to learn that now.
I am going to councilling and i'm going to book it as a joint relationship session, give him the date and time and just make it clear that now enough is enough, and if he decides not to come i will not be going back due to his proven track record of letting me down after chance after chance. This will be the last attempt to make a fresh step if he really wants to shape his/our lives for the better.
I however will still go if he deicides that he's not capable as i feel that i'm in need of some positive reflection, maybe not relationship based but something along those lines just to help me get together my head after a turbulent last 6yrs as i dont feel threatened at all by a professional guiding me through possibly the toughest period of my life, i think any additional support when things are strained should be welcomed!

Time will tell, but i thank you again for your concern and time on my little life.
You obviously have your head screwed on the right way and its a shame that more people are not as genuine and honest as you, you either sound like you have some experience in this personal/professional or you just know life's score!!

Either way thank you so much

[coLLege kid07]

I agree with the second poster. I think it'd be good for you to sit down and talk to some person, and gather all your thoughts. Just realise that no matter what happens there is always hope. Good luck

[Angela]

Muddledmind, I'm so sorry for the pain and feeling of powerless you're experiencing right now.

Unfortunately, although change is possible, you can't do his changing for him. Men are not fixer-uppers. When a man is addicted to alcohol, he is simply not available for a loving, long-term, mutually beneficial relationship (LLTMBR). Not least why is that what happens when he gets into a drunken stupor and takes your beautiful daughter with him in the car? That alone must be prevented from ever happening, and I think you are very right to take dynamic steps to remove yourself and your child from the very real threat posed in living with a man whose first relationship is with a substance.

I think the most motivating thing you can do for this man you love is to stay away from him, giving him the room and a great reason to make a plan for freeing himself from addiction. If losing his loving family won't motivate him, what will?

Best wishes to you and your little one in this difficult time.

(by the way, I deleted your duplicate post. )

Angela

[robc]

Originally Posted by muddledmind

Thank you for your reply Robc, you dont understand how grateful i am for the time you must have taken to respond to my original thread and your words of wisdom.

They confirmed what i was already thinking, i consider myself as a fairly level headed person who is 100% confident with her morals and how i believe people should behave, so after years of trying to be persuaded otherwise its very reassuring to have these things backed up, especially by a random person who is entitled to have what ever take on life they believe in rather than just family and friends support, which you could at times say is because they are protecting my best interests with their guidance!

I am very lucky as i have a good support network around me, i have my parents, friends and other family members on my side to turn to and confide in but on the other hand he will never talk to anyone, he will never open up, almost as if its because if he does start to he is scared about what might come spilling out or if it will ever stop!
I have suggested on many occassions that he does but there has only been very few times where he has, and only slightly. From that i gathered that he feels he cant trust or rely on people and he obviously likes to keep people at a distance to protect himself, and will make out that he's a cold hearted man who can survive on his own by blocking things out and that seems to be the tactic.

I agree that anyone can change, its what you want from life that drives you to become the person you are to a certain extent.
I dont think there is alot of strength to him, its more a general weakness that forces the attitude to become arrogant to protect what he try's to ignore inside.
I can honestly say that i could not tell you what i think he really feels about me, our life or future. I live my life, and have done for some time in conflict with myself. My heart will tell me he doesn't mean the things that he will say or do and my head will rationalise it and alert me to how wrong it all is and that actions speak louder than words, its how you act that counts isn't it?

All this has resulted in me not really knowing if there is hope because i am so drained by all these mixed emotions and its not fair on me, im only human and im the mother of his child which should speak for itself.

His father is a drink driver too, he will lecture him about how stupid he is for doing it and then do it himself or worse, take his son out in the car with him!! How can you expect a child/man to listen to an apparent role model when his dad is making it clear that his words of parental advice are nonsense!
I could go on forever giving examples of this disfunctional lifestyle but i guess you get the drift.

I have decided that i dont want my life this way and he has to learn that now.
I am going to councilling and i'm going to book it as a joint relationship session, give him the date and time and just make it clear that now enough is enough, and if he decides not to come i will not be going back due to his proven track record of letting me down after chance after chance. This will be the last attempt to make a fresh step if he really wants to shape his/our lives for the better.
I however will still go if he deicides that he's not capable as i feel that i'm in need of some positive reflection, maybe not relationship based but something along those lines just to help me get together my head after a turbulent last 6yrs as i dont feel threatened at all by a professional guiding me through possibly the toughest period of my life, i think any additional support when things are strained should be welcomed!

Time will tell, but i thank you again for your concern and time on my little life.
You obviously have your head screwed on the right way and its a shame that more people are not as genuine and honest as you, you either sound like you have some experience in this personal/professional or you just know life's score!!

Either way thank you so much

You have a bit of journey in front of you, keep your spirits up, not just for your kid but for you most importantly. I'm confident you can get through this, and it's quite possible that your husband will realize the damage he's done and do a 180 and surprise you with the effort he will put into changing himself to take care of his family. And if he doesn't, you will have taken back control of your life and gained back some security for you & your child. One way or another, growth will be experienced during this process and you will learn alot about yourself and what you are capable of, you have alot of untapped potential, I believe you're going to start realizing it and showing what you're capable of.

Good Luck, I wish you the best, keep us posted on what happens.