Am I being a sucker?

[Jamie]

I've been emailing back and forth, with this girl from another site; and, on the surface of it, everything seems to be going well, very well in fact..

There are a lot of positives in the interaction, for me; I'm practicing my online flirting skills, learning what works, what I need to improve. She seems really keen on me, and she looks great too. This is the same police lady I mentioned before.

I feel very casual about the whole thing, if something happens cool, if not, cool, I try to focus on what I get from it, the shared experience and also what I learn.

However ...

I'm very wary of getting carried away with myself, building up some fantasy that's all in my head; so, I need to at some point, progress the relationship, phone, meet in person etc.

I'm also thinking that there's a possibilty that I am just being a mug here, and just feeding her ego. I think that's a real possibilty with these online things, though not always going to be the case; and she does seem genuine, but I was talking to a friend tonight, and he was very suspicious (maybe jealous, ha).

She seems genuine enough though, I dunno, just doesn't seem credible that this gorgeous hot woman would be interested in me, it doesn't add up in my head, and even when it did (before my friend went all doom and gloom on me), I was like yeah! feeling great, just generally feeling love and positive and all kinds of really great stuff.

I wrote some insights down too, about how to get along best with women. I think there's a lot of material out there, and it's often easy to lose your own sense of how you are, and how you want to approach it. That make sense?

Dunno why I'm posting this, but do feel free to comment.

[Jamie]

Maybe the universe is conspiring to play a cruel joke on me, again ...

Could be just wasting me time.

[JSB]

Just my 2 cents, but I think a lot of the PUA stuff out there these days makes men a little paranoid about meeting women.

They focus so much on the manipulative bullshit and power games that so many young women play, and on keeping men vigilant about throttling their "inner wuss" that it's easy to end up focusing on the power games and bullshit to the exclusion of everything else, and pretty soon every question is a test and every woman is a subtle Machiavellian genius who can sniff out weakness and insecurity like a bloodhound.

I think those PUA guys are smart and skilled and successful, but their entire industry runs on fear-based marketing --- "Buy my program, or else you'll never get laid and you'll die old and alone and get eaten by rats!" Funny, but people have been getting together for a million years, and they didn't need an expensive set of DVD's telling them how to do it.

Sure, relationships have their share of games and bullshit, but in the end it's just two people working out a way to get together.

So why WOULDN'T the hot policewoman be into you? You're obviously a clever and interesting person, and maybe she likes your looks too!

If it turns out you're just "feeding her ego", would you really want to be involved with someone who behaves that way? She'd be doing you a favor --- you wouldn't have to waste your time with someone who plays those kinds of games.

You're not a sucker, you're pursuing what you want. (If you show up on your first date with a box from Tiffany, THEN you're a sucker!)

[Jamie]

Hi JSB, that's a great post, many thanks. ... and I totally agree with your assessment of the PUA industry.

A lot of people who sell these products (as people who sell any product), have a vested interest in convincing you of your own inadequacy.

I have gone through quite a bit of PUA material, and had mixed feeling on the whole thing. I find a few guys; who say things that really resonate with me, and they seem to be coming from the right place, have integrity, and it's heart-felt too. Then a lot of stuff out there, just makes me wanna puke, it's so completely not who I am, and goes against the grain of my very being; and is defo based on fear as you say.

Still, it's been good to expose myself to this kind of material, because it helps me to more clearly define for myself, how I feel about it all. Plus, more things I'm learning and discovering (often come from within me), and they're applicable to the wider scope of living and loving life.

I completely believe in not being divisive, just being 100% honest and truthful, to the point of even admiting your faults (in a non ashamed way). It shows that you're ok with the fact that you're not perfect, and suggests that you're ok with other people being that way too.

Then there's this thing of "lets jut be friends", which in the PUA community, is often presented as a real bad negative. I completely disagree. I'm more than happy to be just friends with this (or any) woman, I'd love that in fact, and it would take pressure off me too. It's also an opportunity for me to have more honest discussion with a woman, and explore facets of my own psyche as well as hers.

[Fullcrum]

Hey, awesome that you posted a sticking point on a non-PUA forum. No, you're not a sucker, but you're placing too much importance of what she thinks on ya.

I'd just be fun and positive with it. Just keep pressing - and maintain an abundance mentality. There are always more girls out there.

The reason it doesn't add up in your head that this girl could like you is likely a success barrier. This barrier, which your mind puts up to protect you by maintaining internal and external homeostasis (resistance to change), says that a hot girl cannot like you for whatever reason. Maybe you've never been with one before, or not one of that "caliber", which is really just an external judgement.

Why don't you consider dropping the mindset of having to "do" something and just put yourself out there fully and be. Be a fully confident person, confortable in the world. Everyone is your friend. This is really a true self-fulfilling prophecy if you take this understanding on board: EVERYONE is your friend. And no one girl will solve your problems - there are more, who also have the good qualities that this girl does.

Be a natural:

Real Social Dynamics - Natural Tim

Flawless Natural Video Blog

Ultra positive, high consciousness stuff, that's potent to the max. In fact, being social has never felt so natural to me until I really picked up on these resources.

[Jenny]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I feel very casual about the whole thing, if something happens cool, if not, cool, I try to focus on what I get from it, the shared experience and also what I learn.

However ...

I'm very wary of getting carried away with myself, building up some fantasy that's all in my head; so, I need to at some point, progress the relationship, phone, meet in person etc.

I'm also thinking that there's a possibilty that I am just being a mug here, and just feeding her ego. I think that's a real possibilty with these online things, though not always going to be the case; and she does seem genuine, but I was talking to a friend tonight, and he was very suspicious (maybe jealous, ha).

So far it sounds as if all is good. If you later finding yourself getting carried away with a fantasy you can put the brakes on (or insist on a meeting) at that time. I say enjoy the experience (and relationship) for what it is. If one of your goals is to learn new skills and/or to interact with women in a different manner than you have in the past it sounds like you are doing an incredible job!

Right now it makes you (and it sounds like her) feel good. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

Ultra positive, high consciousness stuff, that's potent to the max. In fact, being social has never felt so natural to me until I really picked up on these resources.

Awesome; what a night! I just caught the first 2 espisodes of The Blueprint, before going out to a Salsa night in Derby. OMG, it was so cool. Unbelievable. I was half anticipating that it would turn me in to a complete *******, that couldn't be further from the truth; I was open, fun, positive, giving; with pretty much everyone. I had loads of dances, and even walked up to a top level expert instructor dancer, shook her BF's hand, then asked her to dance, quite direct but friendly, and had an amazing dance, and wasn't at all phased, it was all fun. I mean, it's not so much what happened (that was just one small incident in the entire evening), it's more like a change in me. Have never felt so confident around so many great looking women in my life.

This first girl, that this thread is about, yeh, cool if it works out, as whatever, even as friendship that'd be ace; but I don't mean wussy friendships, where I'm really wanting more but just playing at being 'just friends'. Will see how it goes with that one girl.

I think there's a lot to be said for not having all your eggs in one basket, that dynamic applies in lots of areas of life, I think esp. with dating too. If you're zooming in on one girl, you're more likely to mess-up, cos not being fluid, and all the fear and anxety loaded in to that one relationship -- not healthy.

Can't tell you how fantastic I feel right now, and it's like 4:30am (late night). Also, nothing was canned material, everything was spontaneous and in the moment.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Jenny

So far it sounds as if all is good. If you later finding yourself getting carried away with a fantasy you can put the brakes on (or insist on a meeting) at that time. I say enjoy the experience (and relationship) for what it is. If one of your goals is to learn new skills and/or to interact with women in a different manner than you have in the past it sounds like you are doing an incredible job!

Thanks Jenny!

Actually, I have a terrible track record with the ladies; so even small recent successes are great, and what's even more great, is that I feel like it's me coming out of me, if that makes sense, like a genuine self-expression of who I am at my deepest core; and that other people are finding that ok, is really great.

This girl looks fantastic, I can't tell you how good; and she's really sweet with it too, and she doesn't think she looks good; strange huh!? I always kinda thought nicer looking women seemed to be more caustic; that's the impression I had, for whatever reason, and I really like girls with sweet natures.

Originally Posted by Jenny

Right now it makes you (and it sounds like her) feel good. There's nothing wrong with that.

Woo hoo (still in party mode!).

[Jenny]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Actually, I have a terrible track record with the ladies; so even small recent successes are great, and what's even more great, is that I feel like it's me coming out of me, if that makes sense, like a genuine self-expression of who I am at my deepest core; and that other people are finding that ok, is really great.

Perfect sense How beautiful that you are starting to shine through! Carry on Jamie

[ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I've been emailing back and forth, with this girl from another site; and, on the surface of it, everything seems to be going well, very well in fact..

There are a lot of positives in the interaction, for me; I'm practicing my online flirting skills, learning what works, what I need to improve. She seems really keen on me, and she looks great too. This is the same police lady I mentioned before.

I feel very casual about the whole thing, if something happens cool, if not, cool, I try to focus on what I get from it, the shared experience and also what I learn.

However ...

I'm very wary of getting carried away with myself, building up some fantasy that's all in my head; so, I need to at some point, progress the relationship, phone, meet in person etc.

I'm also thinking that there's a possibilty that I am just being a mug here, and just feeding her ego. I think that's a real possibilty with these online things, though not always going to be the case; and she does seem genuine, but I was talking to a friend tonight, and he was very suspicious (maybe jealous, ha).

She seems genuine enough though, I dunno, just doesn't seem credible that this gorgeous hot woman would be interested in me, it doesn't add up in my head, and even when it did (before my friend went all doom and gloom on me), I was like yeah! feeling great, just generally feeling love and positive and all kinds of really great stuff.

I wrote some insights down too, about how to get along best with women. I think there's a lot of material out there, and it's often easy to lose your own sense of how you are, and how you want to approach it. That make sense?

Dunno why I'm posting this, but do feel free to comment.

Ever heard Brad Paisley's "OnLine"? Online personna's are often fantasy's of the creator. I'd be very wary of meeting someone I met on line. My experience is people present what they wish they were not what they are.

For example, my postings on line are quite different from my emails to friends. I'm me in those emails. I'm often what I wish I were in postings or sometimes, just playing games assuming everyone else is playing too. While I've spent a lot of time posting on boards (that's my hobby), few people I've met on line have ever met the real me. But to be fair, few people in real life has met the mischievious me that can come out on line. I love playing devil's advocate on line but don't do it IRL.

On line is not the real world. Continue to look at it as practicing your flirting skills. That actually will help IRL but don't build up this relationship. She could be some guy in the Gobi dessert with nothing better to do than mess around on the internet.

And don't think badly of poeple who play on line. Sometimes, It's just an escape from reality. It's better than doing drugs.

[Playlife]

Then again, there are people who are more themselves online than they are in real life.

Oh and also, is online then not real? I thought 'net was more an enhancement or a way of connecting people, especially those who are at great physical distance from each other.

[Angela]

I had great experiences with online dating -- real intimacy, with velocity, is possible. It gave me tremendous confidence and communication skill in real-world dating, too. None of the guys who graduated to a real-world met were duds or seemed to have given false versions of themselves. The only problem was that they were men I was sure I would have physical chemistry with from talking to them online, but our pheromones were not a match in person. Oh, well.

It can go the other way, too -- you have tons of chemistry with someone you meet in person, and then when you get to real intimate communication, it's just not there. Either way, it's a risk -- but not a real risk. I mean, if you approach getting to know someone with curiosity and fun, and with your great attitude of wanting to learn something valuable in the experience, you are not going to be really harmed or diminished if she doesn't turn out to be a good partner for you.

The trick is to be highly aware. Listen deeply and generously -- she'll tell you everything you need to know very early in the relationship, and your intuition will also tell you what you need to know. It's when people second-guess that inner knowledge and pursue relationships despite warnings from their Expanded Self that the pain comes in.

Does this woman salsa dance, Jamie? What's the most important thing in the world in her life? What's her most cherished dream?

oh, and by the way, how do you know she's gorgeous? Have you guys exchanged photos?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I dunno, just doesn't seem credible that this gorgeous hot woman would be interested in me, it doesn't add up in my head

Do I hear some low self-esteem speaking here?

Jamie, you're a good looking, sexy, intelligent, charming, kind, and interesting guy, and you can dance. Why would she not be interested in you???

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Playlife

Then again, there are people who are more themselves online than they are in real life.

Oh and also, is online then not real? I thought 'net was more an enhancement or a way of connecting people, especially those who are at great physical distance from each other.

Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic, online interactions. In some ways, I think we can be a lot freer to open up and share and explore things about ourselves that we wouldn't IRL, on the other hand, not everything is always as it seems online, so it's good not to get too drawn in or attached.

Also, never know what the chemistry would be like, should we ever meet..

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Angela

The trick is to be highly aware. Listen deeply and generously -- she'll tell you everything you need to know very early in the relationship, and your intuition will also tell you what you need to know. It's when people second-guess that inner knowledge and pursue relationships despite warnings from their Expanded Self that the pain comes in.

This is all great advice, thanks Angela.

Listening to the other person, I guess, rather than just replaying stuff in my own head, or, anticipating what I'm going to say next etc. Something that probably applies in most interations with people in general. Also, I think good if I can listen to that place of silence within, my own inspirations and intuitions.

Originally Posted by Angela

Does this woman salsa dance, Jamie? What's the most important thing in the world in her life? What's her most cherished dream?

She does dance yeah, but hans't for like 18 months or so; and, she dances more Cuban style salsa, which is quite different to New York style (which I do), though I'm sure it's possible to work it still, I can always convert her (if the interaction gets that far).

I think that's great too; to find out what the girl wants from life, ambitions, desires, what drives her, what her passions and inclinations are. In fact, I should probably talk about that kind of thing with everyone! Rather than saying stuff to try and impress.

Originally Posted by Angela

oh, and by the way, how do you know she's gorgeous? Have you guys exchanged photos?

Yes, we've exchanged photos.

[Jamie]

Hi Rose,

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Do I hear some low self-esteem speaking here?

I guess, could be self esteem issues; that, or foolishly buying in to civilizations notions of what constitutes value and success, and feeling that I come up short against those critera.

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Jamie, you're a good looking, sexy, intelligent, charming, kind, and interesting guy, and you can dance. Why would she not be interested in you???

I never felt like I was good enough, have been long term single infact and had very limited success with women in my life. Most of the time, women I'm attracted to, I'll find myself quite anxious with them. But I have been making slow steady progress in this regard. Getting in to salsa has been a good help there (as well as fantastic fun in it's own right).

[Playlife]

Originally Posted by Jamie

She does dance yeah, but hans't for like 18 months or so; and, she dances more Cuban style salsa, which is quite different to New York style (which I do), though I'm sure it's possible to work it still, I can always convert her (if the interaction gets that far).

Why not you convert yourself though?
Or invent a new style - New Cuba.