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06-11-2008, 08:39 PM
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__________________ I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies. This is the dawning of the rest of our lives. --Green Day The more I see, the less I know, the more I'd like to let it go. --Red Hot Chili Peppers      |
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06-11-2008, 08:41 PM
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| That's what I'd like to know. |
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06-11-2008, 08:48 PM
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It's not as if you are giving the same place in your life to another woman that you give to your partner. You are noticing, maybe admiring, the beauty in someone else. Of course there is discussion to be had about open relationships, but I'll just assume for now you want to commit to one partner and are thinking this means it's bad for you to ever look at other girls (since that's what your OP said to me). How would it really diminish your relationship with your partner? I don't think it would. For instance, the few times I do notice a good looking guy (and it's really not something I do constantly, just not how I am naturally) it doesn't in any way diminish what I feel for my bf. I'm not thinking about cheating on him. I'm not somehow saying the other person is better than him. So why do you think that once you have a girlfriend you shouldn't look at other girls? Can you spell out the reason(s)?
__________________ I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies. This is the dawning of the rest of our lives. --Green Day The more I see, the less I know, the more I'd like to let it go. --Red Hot Chili Peppers |
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06-11-2008, 08:54 PM
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| I guess it doesnt diminish my relationship with her. You're right. |
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06-11-2008, 09:00 PM
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 .But sincerely, I think that it is important to be thoughtful about your partner and how your actions might affect her. Communication in these situations is really important. Once you know what is expected by each person, you can decide together on what the agreed bounds of your relationship are. Then you stick to them. That's all. (key word is "together")
__________________ I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies. This is the dawning of the rest of our lives. --Green Day The more I see, the less I know, the more I'd like to let it go. --Red Hot Chili Peppers |
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06-11-2008, 09:32 PM
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__________________ teach me the wrong and right and i'll show you what i can be. |
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06-13-2008, 06:23 PM
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| After 37 years My wife used to be jealous when I looked at other attractive females. I would make a joke of it and say "I couldn't help it honey, she just walked right in front of my eyes!" Now, after 37 years, she points them out to me just in case I miss one. |
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06-14-2008, 10:02 AM
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1) If I could give you only one piece of advice, it would be to read the book Awareness, by Anthony de Mello. The book includes short talks on a variety of topics, but the discussion of relationships will shake up your perspective, which will probably be a growth experience. 2) It sounds like you and your girlfriend are a little un-confident. It sounds like you depend on each other for your sense of self-worth. When your self-worth depends on the opinion of another, you become a slave to that person. Slavery is not a healthy condition. If you and your girlfriend don't grow out of your mutual slavery, together, you'll eventually need to break up for your mutual well being. 3) Ugly girls are starved for attention, this causes them to behave strangely. Beautiful girls are overwhelmed with attention, this causes them to behave strangely. When you understand, in your heart, that beautiful women are as cursed and warped as ugly women, inner peace will come to your more easily. You will find it a lot easier to love all women for who they are. You'll feel less compelled to look at every pretty girl that walks by. 4) As you get older, your sex drive will probably mellow a little. Surprisingly, this is one of the best things about getting older! Instead of being mute and stupefied in the presence of women, you will find a broad range of women pleasantly intoxicating. You'll enjoy just chatting, or meeting for lunch, or smiling. You'll cease to care whether the woman in front of you has a boyfriend, because you're enjoying the simple pleasure of her company, in the moment. 5) You are probably over-estimating the men and women around you. As you learn to judge them more accurately, you will care less what they think. Focus on your long-term personal development. It's the only thing you can control, anyway. You'll eventually find yourself surpassing people you used to desire or envy. 6) Pretty girls do like to be looked at, by desirable men. If you're not a desirable man yet, all you need to do is avoid leering and go about your business with a relaxed attitude. If you sense that an alarmingly beautiful woman may be in the vicinity, challenge yourself to glance only at her face. Leave the rest to your peripheral vision. Think of it as a personal development game. If you frequently find yourself standing around, glancing at attractive women who aren't interested in you, you're obviously wasting time.  Find a way to use that time for personal development, instead.7) If you're worried about becoming a desirable man, don't take the opinions of women too seriously. Most women couldn't tell you how to be a man, even if they had the inclination to try. Bathe, groom, nurture your health, mind, and spirit. Keep working on your personal development. Eventually, you'll notice women who are "out of your league" starting to give you a second look. Suddenly, you'll realize that everything is going to be splendid! |
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06-15-2008, 08:15 AM
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Some of the best advice pertaining to women I've read in a long time. Thanks.
__________________ Take 20 - Personal Development Advice, Tools to Improve the Quality of your Life |
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06-15-2008, 01:20 PM
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Early in our relationship, my husband did a tongue wagging head snapping oogle at a woman in a white jumper....I don't know how he tripped over my foot.  |
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06-15-2008, 01:22 PM
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| "7) If you're worried about becoming a desirable man, don't take the opinions of women too seriously. Most women couldn't tell you how to be a man, even if they had the inclination to try. Bathe, groom, nurture your health, mind, and spirit. Keep working on your personal development. Eventually, you'll notice women who are "out of your league" starting to give you a second look. Suddenly, you'll realize that everything is going to be splendid!" What? You think women don't know what they find deriable in a man? That's absurd. |
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06-15-2008, 11:02 PM
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06-16-2008, 05:45 PM
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The truth is, no one person can fulfill all of your social needs, and it's unfair to ask that. For most of us, we will continue to need other people to interact to meet our social, recreational and emotional needs. The need for beauty falls into that category as well. Think of it like this - it's unrealistic to expect your girlfriend to be at her peak physical appearance at all times. She needs a break occasionally just like anyone else. You still have a need to appreciate beauty, however, so you can fulfill that in part by appreciating other beautiful women - just like many men fulfill their need to watch hockey by going out with their guy friends!
__________________ Don't click this link, unless you want to learn to make lasting changes! Never the Same River Twice, because change happens. |
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06-16-2008, 08:39 PM
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| I am a woman. I've been in a relationship for Ten and a half years now, soon eleven. And I don't see the reason why you shouldn't look at what's beautiful. Maybe it is because my husband and I studied arts and aesthetics, but we have no problem in looking at a person of the opposite sex... and of our own. I look at beautiful flowers, beautiful paintings, beautiful houses, beautiful cars, beautiful dresses, beautiful animals and beautiful stones. I don't see any reason on Earth why I shouldn't look at beautiful people, regardless of their sex. Maybe it is because I am very secure of my husband, but I have no problem in pointing out to him how pretty a girl is, how beautiful her long hair is or how well is dressed. Maybe it's because I look at beautiful people (men and women) as I look at the Samothrace Victory: with the pleasure I look at an art form. I guess a girl should be angry if a man looked lustily to other women, and if he paid no attention to her. But I don't see the reason why a man you feel safe with, needs to cut off his eyes. I think I don't fear beauty in other women, not only because both my husband and I see it as any other form of beauty, but also because we are very sure of each other. Yes, Mairead Nesbitt is prettier than me, and she can play the violin while jumping and dancing on stiletto heels while her white-gold hair flows following her movements. But she's not going to play Warhammer fantasy with my husband. She's not going to discuss the latest political headlines, Rolemaster's rules compared to HARP's, BBC documentaries on evolution and clothing aesthetics with him. She is a beauty I admire, but not a threat, nor something that makes me feel diminished. I mean, other girls are prettier, many of them prettier than me. But I don't care, first of all, because I enjoy their beauty too, and secondly, because I am sure of both my husband and myself. I felt very identified with a scene in Atlas Shrugged, in which Dagny Taggart is waiting for her lover, and she says so when he arrives: that she was waiting for him. He asks her why many women wouldn't admit that, but she does. And she answers that she is both sure of his lover and of herself... that with any other man, she wouldn't be sure, but with him, she can admit how much he wants him. Doesn't use those words, but that's what she says. I feel totally identified with that. Maybe it sounds arrogant, I don't know if I explained myself properly. What I mean is that when you have a common life project with another person, jealousy just disappears. You know if you are treating your partner properly, and you know if you both are happy enough. When things are settled and the weak infatuation passes away, and love gets solid, you just feel safe. When you are starting, maybe you feel insecure at other people's beauty. But a time comes when it disappears. So, look at what's beautiful. There'll come a point when you'll admire its beauty but won't desire it. If you are starting a relationship and can't help your impulses, and find yourself looking extremely blatantly at another woman, and you do it in a way that could be offensive for of your girlfriend, I'd recommend you to use the "art critic" way out. Say the other girl has a greek profile, that her skin tone would need ochre to be painted, that her skirt matches her handbag (or not), that she can't really walk with those heels and may fall... Whatever that gives an impression of analysis. If you look at her coolly, as you'd look at an art painting, the girl is likely to be less offended. However, no girl should be offended by something like that, unless you stare for a quarter of an hour and don't listen to her. If, after a long time, other women still attract you more than your partner, your relationship isn't working properly. I think. Last edited by Natsu : 06-16-2008 at 08:53 PM. |
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06-17-2008, 03:53 PM
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| Thanks for sharing, Natsu.
__________________ I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies. This is the dawning of the rest of our lives. --Green Day The more I see, the less I know, the more I'd like to let it go. --Red Hot Chili Peppers |
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06-18-2008, 09:04 PM
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| I've got a ton of reactions to different things that have been said in this post. I don't normally contribute, but I felt compelled... Sonic, I agree with the others when they say a few of your posts give the impression you're looking for validation externally rather than drawing your self worth from within. I think BDC made some great points in his post too. To those that think his point #7 is controversial, I think it sums up a lot about what is difficult about "being a man." It's hard to figure out what women want, and many women will give you advice that then contradicts their own actions. Personally, I've been involved in what some call "the pickup" community and through it I've learned a ton about myself, women, and male/female interaction. BDC really did hit the nail over the head when he said it comes down to being a "desirable man." That really just means having your life together, being happy with who you are and being committed to your goals. Some of what Steve writes in his "How to be a Man" post is a good reflection of this topic actually. About women, I've learned that they're far more intuitive than most of us guys would guess and that they can normally feel out what's going on in a situation. They'll be drawn to anyone they can see is "high value" but they're also fairly good at picking up on whether you're trying to be fake or if you have dishonest intentions. I've noticed that if I look at a beautiful women with the intention of "not being caught" I can really end up creeping her out. However, if I own my feelings and accept them and come from a more open place, the same behavior can even draw a positive response. Being caught up with the opposite sex in the end is not a very purposeful endeavor. You're much better off getting through the emotional blockages that you have. When you emerge whole on the other side, you'll find miraculously that you have become much more attractive to all those around you - including the women whom before seemed "out of your league." I can tell you that for me personally, being involved in "pickup" helped me get through a lot of these issues by forcing me to confront areas of my life where I was being inauthentic and incongruent. I think it's possibly one of THE best personal development tools available to a single guy, since it routinely involves flinging yourself into the depths of your psyche, confronting your fears, and disproving limiting beliefs that sustained your false fear. However, it can be one of the worst "tools" as well. I've seen many guys get sucked into its darker side. They are invariably the ones drawn towards a desire to control others in an attempt to compensate and make up for the lack of control they felt over their own lives before. Thus,when they learned what the opposite sex actually responds to they simply enable their own descent into low awareness behavior. If there is one quality I noticed that unified all the "pickup artists" whom I met that were engaged in it positively, I would say it is the same underlying quality that made a lot of my favorite posts in this topic ring true: Honesty. Read BDC's post, and read some of the posts from aspiring to clarity. You can tell immediately there is something open, honest and compassionate about them. Real communication comes from this place too. In the end, all personal development could be seen as an attempt to reconnect our actions with these ideals. If I were going to weigh in, then, on whether or not it's ok to look at other women when you're in a relationship I would just hunt for the outcome that led to sincerity, authenticity and openness. For me, I can't deny that I am still attracted to other beautiful women despite the fact that I am madly attracted physically, as well as completely committed mentally and spiritually to my current girlfriend. I tried the route of suppressing my looking and realized it was pretty inauthentic - I quickly became aware I was using guilt and shame on myself to try to moderate my behavior..not very healthy. Now, we talk about it openly and are very honest about our own and each other's insecurities related to this topic. This doesn't mean it's nirvana, and we still fight about it occasionally, but we both know the goal is to keep this dialog going until we can help each other resolve the issues that we still have. I think this same blueprint can be applied to almost any other problem in a relationship as well. Hunt for the open and honest approach and all will be well. |
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06-19-2008, 07:22 AM
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| Wow. What a variety of responses in here. Fascinating the ways people look at this. I don't see how you can not notice hot people. I think it's fun to point them out to each other. Usually we crack each other up over it. Maybe you need to find someone who's ok with it... Looking, not ogling. Make it fun. Start pointing out cute guys to her. Notice how she doesn't leave you for them. See. It's a process. You're feeling compelled only because it's not 'allowed.' Don't sit there and dwell on anyone's parts or anything. Just show her how cool you can be about it. Like, give her a compliment afterward. Change the subject right after. It'll reinforce to her that it's no big deal. In the final analysis, it comes down to this: When you appreciate a slice of pizza, does it mean you don't still love steak? I mean I like ice cream. ...But not every night.
__________________ my ac my ehow ~ "Indecision may or may not have been my biggest problem." -- Jimmy Buffet |
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06-19-2008, 11:02 PM
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| Cheating partners are the most insecure I have noticed that partners who have had a track record of cheating are the ones who are the most insecure in relationship. They are often the people who get the most jealous and possessive. Trust yourself and feel comfortable about your own feelings of attraction for women outside the relationship. If your partner is enjoying "eye candy" then it won't bother you. Set boundaries for yourself and enjoy looking. Stella dabeam |
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06-20-2008, 02:30 PM
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__________________ I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies. This is the dawning of the rest of our lives. --Green Day The more I see, the less I know, the more I'd like to let it go. --Red Hot Chili Peppers |
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06-21-2008, 01:18 PM
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| I beg to differ with the opinion it is ok to keep looking... all that much when you have a solid relationship. It's one thing to notice someone who is good looking in the street, out of the corner of your eye, and I am sure a good looking woman doesn't need to be pointed out to men, all men all notice every single one, but it's another to make a fuss of it, and make a point of letting your own gf or wife know how attractive you think she is. It's just a testing of limits and boundaries that can and often does quickly degenerate into a power play. Then ironically you say the person you are trying to make insecure is insecure and needs to work on themselves. Games! Also going to Hooters is a big red flag for a man in a serious relationship. There is no reason to act like your entire life is one long bachelor party. If there is, you are taking your own relationship for granted and you need to work on yourself or get with someone who can hold your attention. Of course people have their right to privacy and mental freedom and people look at others all the time, but if a lot of attention is paid, or you start spending money and extra time to do it, like go to places like Hooters or strip clubs, that is putting a lot of priority there. There's a difference between appreciating beauty and indulging so much it makes the woman you are with wonder about you. In NYC burlesque is being revived and many couples go, it is all done with a sense of humor and artistry, very different than going to a place like Hooters that even the name is making fun of a woman's anatomy. There's a fine line between being human and using that as an excuse to be discourteous and disrespectful. I have thought about this a lot because someone I had a relationship with in the past always made a big point of showing interest in other women in public, or at work, and it was a big red flag, looking back on it. The original poster, I think, because he is in a long distance relationship, has been too deprived for too long and is reacting to strong bodily impulses. If he doesn't get near his gf soon, something probably will happen to derail his long distance relationship....it's nature's way of making sure you don't stay by yourself forever.... |