Healthy Relationship?

[solsticefall]

Having been raised in a dysfunctional family and having observed that the relationships of about everyone I know seem broken or have failed, I have recently pondered the question: What makes a good and healthy relationship?

I have recently come to terms with the fact that very few of the components of my marriage were fulfilling. One of the most important elements that led me to end my marriage was the lack of respect I had for her - the fact that I respect women who become scientists, engineers, or doctors much more than she would continue to be the achilles heel of our relationship forever because I will always secretly wish that she was as capable as they are - as I am. I value an intellectual equal as well as I value physical attraction - the combination of which is a rare breed indeed.

But recently I have been pondering how it is that I could differentiate between those that will complement my life-journey and those who will suck the energy out of my soul while distracting me with a comforting lure (e.g. a smokin' hot body). An intellectual, highly attractive woman may be emotionally reserved or entirely absent - leaving some components satisfied but leaving others craving for more. While a woman who's intelligent with emotional abundance may have characteristics that are not physically appealing. Where is the line drawn between searching my entire life to find a (nearly) perfect woman for me and accepting a statistical "good hit" instead of (nearly) perfect match? But this is only the preamble to the most confusing of all questions I have about relationships: how do you know that the one you're in - or pursuing - is healthy?

What do healthy relationships consist of? How do you attract a healthy relationship? How do you avoid unhealthy ones?

And the most important question: How do you know when a person is right for you instead of leaving them in search for someone better?

[kboleski]

I am sad to hear that your marriage ended. I don't know enough about your relationship to understand the need for divorce. I don't know the other "components" that led to ending your marriage, but you mentioned one - your lack of respect for your wife - you wish she was a successful professional - that she is not intillectually equal partner. I understand the desire to have that. I am really struck by the comment that because she is not successful that it "she" would be an achilles heel because you secretly wish "long" for someone of that nature.

The negative part: I have to say that you chose her, you married her, surely she brought something else to the table. She shouldn't have to have a law degree or an MD behind her name to be important to you. Have the problems between you made you forget what made her special to you, what attracted you to her, what you respected about her in the beginning? What makes her special? I know some very strong, capable women who hold their family's lives perfectly together, are wonderful mothers and wives, and are far more capable than some uber professional. Some of these women do not have college educations. They are smart, work hard, and do what they do with finesse, skill and have confidence and self respect. Does she have the desire to go back to work, or go back to college? Would you support her to be the best she can be?

You asked what makes for a good and healthy relationship. Boy, there is a lot. To try to say it as concisely as possible, you HAVE to offer each other unconditional love and acceptance. Take her as she is. She should take you as you are. She knew you didn't accept her for who she was. Don't get turned off because of what she is not. No one is perfect. Of course, you can aim for excellence, but sometimes you can even fall short of that. That is OK. I am not saying that it isn't her responsibility to always improve where she can, but that is very difficult to do if you don't feel love and supported. You have to respect each other as each of you need to be treated with respect no matter what. You have to nurture each other to be the BEST you can be. Did you treat her like you believed in her or disconnect and criticize her because you felt she fell short? Did you treat her with the utmost love, acceptance and respect? Did you give her a safe place to fall? Did you sincerely appreciate her for who she was, what she brought to the table, what she could be capable of, what she did for you, and just because she was a woman? Are you able to truly love someone? That is a pretty important question because if not, you will always find something wrong with people, and consequently, never have a fulfilling relationship.

That said, you can find intellect and physical attractiveness in one woman. You just have to find her. There is no exact way to say how to find someone who is a perfect match. Look for the qualities you find most important. It seems you require a educated, successful woman who needs to be in shape and have a nice body. You should look for someone who has confidence and self-respect. (They won't look to you to provide that for them.) Do you want her to be spontaneous and outgoing? Do you want her to be loving or aloof? Who knows, maybe you will run into a successful, confident, self-respecting woman at the gym. Just remember, you will have to accept her and support her efforts to be the best she can be.

You are NEVER going to find the PERFECT woman. No one is perfect, but a self-respecting, confident woman who feels loved and secure would be a great partner to have. Then you both can be nurture each other into becoming the best you can be. There is no need to leave one in search for another. That is a bad pattern to get into.

[Alexjstrandberg]

When you start out on this type of path (self improvement, conquering fears etc) you will learn that most people are not for you, especially a partner. They won't be able to handle your improved self confidence, views, happiness and so on. They just won't fit into your life because you will be two different people.

With picking a woman, I choose someone who believes in my mission and is willing to help in anyway she can. I spend A LOT of time on my mission and my girlfriend would only resent me if she wasn't happy me doing it or sitting right next to me helping. She would think I'm wasting my time or whatever.

Check out this article I wrote about finding a mission and the woman you are with can help you:

Inner game Reframe » How to Find and Live Your Mission

As for finding the right girl, take a look at this post:

Inner game Reframe » Over qualifying leads to many lonely nights

I talk about what qualities to look for in a woman who will be great for you.

hope that helps

[lasti]

Uh, well, what about love? Haven't found that word in your post.

[solsticefall]

Originally Posted by kboleski

Have the problems between you made you forget what made her special to you, what attracted you to her, what you respected about her in the beginning? What makes her special?

The brief history is that we've dated since high school, we were each others' first. The circumstances in my youth essentially left me without supervision, without a parental figure. She was the only friend I had due to very extreme circumstances; in all likelihood I wouldn't have taken things into relationship level with her otherwise (since I'm being completely honest). We've stayed together because things were comfortable. Day in and day out nothing really changed. Essentially I've been "married" since I was 18yo but officially since 24. One day I realized that after 5 years we should get married because "there was no good reason not to since things seemed stable".

Now that I'm approaching the end of my 20's, things are different. Although she loves me deeply and doesn't want it to be over, I feel that we've grown too far apart. I feel that if I didn't know her today and dated her for the first time, I wouldn't think she was right for me - physically or intellectually.

It pains me greatly to come to this conclusion. I've been indecisive about things for about 2 years now and it's time that something changes. I just can't keep things in limbo forever while I hide from my fears. It's not fair for either of us.

[Alexjstrandberg]

It will be painful for her to hear but it will be A LOT less painful than staying with someone who isn't right for you. Dragging a relationship out is what hurts the most.

People break up because they are no longer compatible. You might still love and care for her just the same as you would a friend, family member etc. but it's clear the both of you aren't right for each other-if you were these thoughts wouldn't come.

The "together for ever" is a bad clause in a marriage contract because people change. No one is the same person they were when they went to sleep and people might drift apart and want different things.

I think you are still with her for the same reasons you got together, fear. You feared not meeting someone who did it for you and feared being alone, so to speak and you both just settled for one another.

Now that it's become clear that she doesn't do it for you, you fear being alone, hurting her and not being able to find someone who is perfect for you.

I agree with kboleski that you should love and accept her but loving accepting someone doesnt mean you need to be with them. A LOT of people use love and acceptance to hopefully "change" that person into someone you want them to be.

I'm in no way suggesting what you do, only what I would do. I have broken up with people who I had been with for a long time and it wasn't easy in the least. Both people were hurt but after the wounds healed we realized it was the best thing for both of us to find people who were are more compatible with.

[kboleski]

Thank you for such an honest explanation of your circumstances. I understand now that you were never really in the right relationship for you. Decisions that you make in extreme circumstances can really turn out to be the wrong ones. Did she ever have the ability to change, improve, become the best she could be? I ask that because my husband is very independent, but not in a good way. He doesn't try to include me. He is very caught up in his own goals, wants, desires, needs to give much thought to mine or our children's. That doesn't negate my responsibility to continue self-improvement, do what I am supposed to do, but it sure would be more fulfilling if we did it in support of one another. You communicate and grow together that way. This aspect of my relationship with my husband leaves me feeling alone. I have to fight negative and sad feelings and sometimes not successfully. I tell you this, because if she did have the ability to shine and be awesome at one point and now does not, you have to figure your part in that. Anyone, worth their salt, when supported, nurtured and motivated correctly, usually wants to be the best they can be. When you married her was she lazy, emotionally lazy, unmotivated, and content with merely existing? If that is the case, she probably isn't ever going to be the kind of woman you want/need. If she changed into an unmotivated, lazy person, she probably has problems with self-esteem, lack of confidence and depression. So, be careful how all of this plays out.

[solsticefall]

I'm sorry to hear that your relationship with your husband is less fulfilling than you want it to be. That's not a good place to be emotionally as there are only two ways to deal with it: forgiveness and emotional distance. There is a certain balance in the forgiveness account and if you're making more withdrawals than deposits are made then it will eventually lead to negative-balance or emotional distance as a self-protection mechanism. Although I don't have children, I understand that they tend to put a large strain on relationships (a good friend of mine told me once that after 25 years married and 3 children he learned that your time at home should be prioritized first with your spouse then with your children, that prioritizing the opposite way is a recipe for disaster in marriage). What does your husband say about the way you feel? Does he try to change his behavior to give you more support or does he ignore you or make excuses? Loneliness is an awful feeling. Nobody should subject the one they love and intend to be with to that feeling.

I've thought at times that if I were to get married again I would make a stipulation that one weekend a year is spent on a marriage-building get-away (kinda like premarital counseling but ongoing to address the long-term dynamics of marriage), even if the relationship is good at the moment.

To answer your questions:
We both spend much time working and going to college, which falls under self-improvement. When we met she was over 200lbs and 'content' with it in the sense that she wasn't actively trying to lose weight but it wreaked havoc on her self-image - kept her in a state of emotional checkmate. I forgave her for it but secretly - and over a long period of time - my self-esteem started to be affected because I married a "fat woman" while my friends and peers hadn't. She's never felt jealous or threatened by other women b/c she trusts me. She appreciates the simple things in life and never ventures outside her comfort zone, her daily routine.

We've had each others companionship and shared a good place to live. We both worked and earned our own money; we kept our money, credit cards, car loans, and bank accounts separate.

Since I make a large proportion of the money, I chose to attend a local university so that I could keep my job and pay the bills. She decided to drive 1.5 hours a day each direction (and work less hours) to attend a big-name university because it looks better for employers who hire business majors. Now she tells me that she's not sure that business is right for her since she's not doing well in her classes.

Meanwhile, the women I've casually spoken with in my engineering college seem so grounded in comparison. As do the science and chem majors. There's something that I can't quite explain about them. Like when I speak with them, I don't feel like I'm speaking with an adolescent girl - but rather another conscious mind. Somebody who can figure things out on their own, somebody who doesn't need me to hold their hand through every decision. It sounds like I'm being mean, but that's really as close to the truth as I can describe.

[kboleski]

[quote=solsticefall;197527] Thank you for that well thought out post. I have emotionally distanced myself for protection. Having children is the best thing I have every done, but it is difficult. They do put a strain on the marriage. And, your friend is right, you have to put your spouse first, the children come next. They will learn their "place". It would be nice if he and I were team for eachother and for the family. I don't think he understands that concept. He is highly motivated and doesn't let grass grow under his feet, unless of course, it is something that needs to be done around the house. haha When I can get him talking, he seems to understand what I am saying. He tries to be thoughtful, positive, but I think he just gets back to his routine, a million things on his mind and forgets that he needs to consider the children and I. He always has an excuse.



The marriage building weekend away is a very good idea. You have to communicate EVERYTHING to grow together and stay on the same page - even the hardest things to say have to be discussed.

She definitely has self image, confidence, self-respect issues. Her weight could be a large part of it. I wonder why she is content with the weight? It must be serving a purpose. No one wants to be fat. That is sad. Graduating college is a great step to feeling accomplishment, but she doesn't understand that she is out of balance. That will bring her down. She is insecure and emotionally stuck somewhere back in time. That is why she seems immature. She does need your advice, hand-holding and approval.

I could see as you try to become the best man you can be, it would be hard to be with a heavy woman. It is not "normal" to be fat. She probably has emotional eating problems. Like Dr. Phil says, "You have to work at being fat." Her comfort zone and daily routine have become her safety net.

She is going to have a hard time getting her act together, (if she ever does.) It seems the big-name University isn't doing her any good. It seems that you are putting your past where it needs to be and not letting it dictate who you are or your future. You seem like a pretty well-rounded, confident guy who knows what he wants. It seems you want a well-adjusted, happy, motivated, mature, confident, capable woman. I am sure she is out there for you, just take your time.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by solsticefall

What do healthy relationships consist of? How do you attract a healthy relationship? How do you avoid unhealthy ones?

Get as far ahead as you can in your career and meet potential mates along the way.

The best way to figure out someone's true nature is to work with them.