Husband Won't Discipline teenage son

[Patty]

I am frustrated! I caught our son cutting school for the third time in recent weeks and my husband is not interested in disciplining him. So, as always, there is a love-hate relationship going on... my son loves his dad and hates me. I know we can't control his behavior, but we certainly can control our reaction to his breaking rules. My husband is a non confrontational personality, and just doesn't feel it is worthwhile to impose a punishment that will be ignored. This has been a pattern for a while. I have to go along to get along, or give myself a permanent jaw clenched face and frequent insomnia. The most important thing is that we are a parental unit, but that is never achievable due to our natural reactions in almost every problematic situation. Our son is 17 and about to graduate from high school. This year he has slipped further than ever into bad habits with non-college bound friends and we have, with no choice, been along for the ride. I want to detach, but how does one stop being a mother? I am so frustrated with my son and my husband.

[lasti]

Punish him? He's 17. What are you going to do when he's 18?
How do you want to punish him? How do you think he will react?

Why do you let your husband be the one who should take care of your son?

[Dave Kaminski]

Why don't you find out what your son wants to do instead of go to school? Help him on his way to doing what he wants to do, because once he's 18 nothing you say will matter.

Hell, you're lucky what you say even matters now, if it does. Why must your son go to school? He's nearly an adult, and 100 years ago he'd be halfway to dead if average life span means anything. He'd even be socially accepted or acclaimed for not going to school and going to work instead.

Kick him out if he doesn't want to live by your rules. At least this way he'll get a job and work.

My question is this - do you want him to be happy?

If so, leave the kid alone, he's almost an adult. Let him get a job and his own place. Tell him that those are his choices - school, or support himself. Tell him next time he skips he'll be out of the house - and stick to your word. He'll smarten up eventually - and even if he doesn't, at least he isn't a slave to his parents.

Can you really call him a person if he just does what you tell him to?

If you're in school and don't want to be, it's a miserable joke and a waste of time and money

Make him accountable for his actions, and take away the gifts you give him (like television, extra clothing, etc) if he doesn't like your rules.

[Dan.Linehan]

Fine line you're walking here.

Have a sit down with your son. See what he wants out of life. See if you can help. Stop punishing, start helping. Start listening.

Your punishments are just making him rebel more, I bet.

[Patty]

Our son says he wants to go to college and is planning to go. We gave him the option of taking a year off and he considered it and then declined. Of course we want him to be happy. But if he is behaving in a way that is blatantly breaking rules and being inconsiderate and unreliable, what are the choices at the age that he is? To ignore is to condone. I do react without waiting for my husband to agree, but it is not ideal. I'm the one who suggests to my husband, who agrees without enthusiasm, that our son cannot use the car for a few days since he left school in the middle of the day (again and again). I don't enjoy treating him like a child, but he acts like one and I am put in the role of parenting a much younger kid. I'd like to ignore his behavior, but I don't know how. He was supposed to see about getting his summer job back, but for weeks now he keeps not going at the (early) time that the manager is in, or some other such excuse. I've asked my husband to stop giving him pocket money, and he reluctantly agrees. These are the patterns that are part of our lives. I know he's virtaully an adult, but we'll be supporting him in college and purchasing a laptop ,etc. and
I don't know when he will act responsibly, and find it excruciating to watch him miss deadlines lose things and generally behave the way he does. Our daughter advises that hwe just ignore him, but unless my husband agrees to stop giving him money and favors, it is inefective because I am the vilified parent, if that makes sense. Agggghhh. Thanx for your input past and future. I really am listening.

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by Patty

Our son says he wants to go to college and is planning to go. We gave him the option of taking a year off and he considered it and then declined. Of course we want him to be happy. But if he is behaving in a way that is blatantly breaking rules and being inconsiderate and unreliable, what are the choices at the age that he is? To ignore is to condone.

I completely agree, to ignore is to condone.

Originally Posted by Patty

I do react without waiting for my husband to agree, but it is not ideal. I'm the one who suggests to my husband, who agrees without enthusiasm, that our son cannot use the car for a few days since he left school in the middle of the day (again and again).

If he pays for it, I'd say leave it alone. If you guys bought and insure it, I would take it away completely.

Originally Posted by Patty

I don't enjoy treating him like a child, but he acts like one and I am put in the role of parenting a much younger kid. I'd like to ignore his behavior, but I don't know how. He was supposed to see about getting his summer job back, but for weeks now he keeps not going at the (early) time that the manager is in, or some other such excuse. I've asked my husband to stop giving him pocket money, and he reluctantly agrees.

It seems like the problem is between the men in your life! Neither will do as you wish. Sorry, we men can occasionally suck.

Originally Posted by Patty

These are the patterns that are part of our lives. I know he's virtaully an adult, but we'll be supporting him in college and purchasing a laptop ,etc. and I don't know when he will act responsibly, and find it excruciating to watch him miss deadlines lose things and generally behave the way he does.

Is it painful to you because it causes you more harm than it does him? I think this is the case, as he's not risking anything by not doing his work - you're the one investing time, care and money.

It seems he could care less about the work itself and if he did care it would probably because you care.

Originally Posted by Patty

Our daughter advises that hwe just ignore him, but unless my husband agrees to stop giving him money and favors, it is inefective because I am the vilified parent, if that makes sense. Agggghhh. Thanx for your input past and future. I really am listening.

You clearly are listening (and are very wise - not everyone asks for help), not that any of us consider ourselves experts. We just know, through past experience, that rarely can a person be forced into making the right choices. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still," you know?

I would change the risk in the situation so he's the one who is losing out or missing out when he makes the wrong choices. Make sure he's not financed or able to do anything if he's not following your rules, or set him free to make his own decisions - ALL of his own decisions.

[Fullcrum]

I have a feeling he's doing bad stuff to prove something to himself or his peers. I'm 16, I know the drive and I see it in my friends all the time.

Why don't you try just casually talking with him and getting to the bottom of his motivation. Like show him that he's not really being a man, or whatever he's trying to prove, by doing what he's doing. It'll basically undermine the motivation to do the bad stuff. Think of it like reframing.

[Dharma]

So you're showing yourself through your son how you treat yourself when you don't follow your own rules. You seek to punish yourself and the part of you that wants to give you some freedom (husband) you criticize for not getting on your case. That's a really hard place to grow from personally, don't you think? Maybe you could consider the family is a reflection of yourself and lighten up on yourself, give yourself some space to move outside your normal boundaries. That's what this little play is about.

It's about you, not your husband or your son. You will not change the situation from outside yourself. If you try it will take a lot of effort and you'll get that permanent jaw clenched face and frequent insomnia. The easy path is to change yourself. And here the change has something to do with breaking out of your own rules, allowing some space for change, and stop punishing yourself for going outside of how you think things should be.

[Patty]

Wow Dharma. Your answer genuinely resonates with me. Ironically, I read a LOT of yoga philosophy literature, so at some level, I recognize that the change or acceptance begins with me. Still, besides practicing some sort of detachment exercise, do you have any practical, tactical thoughts for my particular scerario?

[Patty]

Oh, and Fullcrum (and the rest of you) thank you for your insight(s). Of course there is truth to all of your observations. As a direct result of your 16 year old thoughts, I wrote an email to my son earlier which included non judgemental observations about his behavior not matching his stated intention of going to college, questions about what he might really want for himself, offering to help in any way, and also a firm reminder that he can't expect to borrow the family car and enjoy other priveleges which he takes for granted, if he continues to act irresponsibly. I just dropped him off at school and let him know that I sent the email. He really is a good guy who is struggling with something organizationally, yet has covered this challenge of his with a stubborn insistence that everything is fine. At least I put it out there and hopefully I can stop thinking and worrying about what's around the corner for him.

[Dave Kaminski]

Hey Patty,

What an excellent attempt at communication! You're doing a great job - reminds me of something my mother might try to do.

I have to admit that I'm from a suburb in the northeast; my problem was not directly with school, but with society as a whole. He's being forced to learn information that may not be true and may not be relevant to his life so he can get a little blue ribbon and participate in a ritualistic day of 'graduation.' I'm pretty sure that again, he only cares to the extent that it satisfies you and his father and his peers. The only gratification he is likely to garner from such an experience is the gratification of attention and praise.

Missing a day or two of school is probably not a big deal for your son because he's probably got the idea that he has a fairly good handle on what he needs to know and not know. Your questions to him are very insightful.

I don't know that your effort will succeed, and if it doesn't, don't fret. Like Dharma says, it's an internal change. You're a brilliant woman to take such an intelligent approach to such an emotional issue.

Go you!

[Spartan]

Why do you keep pressurizing your son to conform to your own expectations, instead of accepting him as he is?

I expect you have an idealistic image of your son's future in your head? However, your son's future is not yours to decide. It's his life, and he is probably at one of the most difficult periods. So instead of imposing your expectations on him and berating him when he doesn't live up to those expectations, try to encourage him. He probably thinks you are incapable of understanding him. So instead of berating him, listen to him and try to understand him. Then, if he respects your intelligence, once he realises that you do understand him, he will be more responsive to your help and guidance.

[Patty]

Thank you Dave for kind words of encouragement. Soo very appreciated. And Spartan...interesting take on the situation. I like to think I'm not imposing any personal expectation of success on my son. I just worry that he's going down a bad path which will get him hurt or in trouble. We should all be fee to be who we are, but if we're going to live in the mainstream world, and get along with others, complete a task in order to earn a living, and follow some rules, perhaps this is the parent's job - to set up minimum expectations. I'm not demanding that he earn straight A's in school but simply turn in his assignments. Of course, some of the most interesting individuals who are true individuals do not follow the rules and conform to the system. Sounds good, but I'm thinking that a habit of not doing what you set out to do remains a habit, no matter what you choose to do. He needs to gather himself, stop smoking pot or at least do it after his trasks are complete. Get the picture? You make points that give me pause, but don't forget that there is a difference between romanticizing a teenager's fantasy life and dealing with the unforeseen hell of watching a smart, intellectual, openminded kid sort of give up because that's how he deals with difficulties. I've known adults who grew up like weeds, with no parental supervision. Depending on the individual's make up and strength of character, this is not a good thing. But....I so very much want to back off. It's painful for all of us to have conflicts. My husband and I feel like we're crawling to the finish line of his high school life. Maybe he'll whip himself around in college. Whatever happens, it is his life.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Patty

Wow Dharma. Your answer genuinely resonates with me. Ironically, I read a LOT of yoga philosophy literature, so at some level, I recognize that the change or acceptance begins with me. Still, besides practicing some sort of detachment exercise, do you have any practical, tactical thoughts for my particular scerario?

Practice seeing everyone as a reflection of you -
When talking with your son or husband, state to yourself, "this is me talking with me". Also remember you are such a diverse and awesome being that you have a lot of likes and dislikes spread over a whole world of people. Your ego is not going to agree with everyone being you because it identifies your likes and dislikes with your physical form. So you may not like your husband's lack of discipline with your son, but remember your husband is reflecting a part of you back to you.

This doesn't mean you have to do nothing if he does nothing. Move with what you feel to do.

Another thing which I find helpful is to write down my problem and change all the references of other people and things to me. It would be like taking your first two posts in this thread and changing all the references to yourself.

original:Our son is 17 and about to graduate from high school. This year he has slipped further than ever into bad habits with non-college bound friends and we have, with no choice, been along for the ride. I want to detach, but how does one stop being a mother? I am so frustrated with my son and my husband.

new:I am 17 and about to graduate from myself. I have slipped further than ever into bad habits with myself and I have, with no choice, been along for the ride. I want to detach, but how do I stop being myself? I am so frustrated with myself.

Doing this puts the story in a different light and can yield some interesting stuff about your current situation that you normally wouldn't see.

Reality checks -
You take the story you have inside about what you think is going on with someone and relay it to that person. Sometimes you'll get a totally different perspective on things.

To your son - "I'm feeling that you're being irresponsible, inconsiderate, and unreliable when you skip school. Is that true for you?"

Take what he says in response and make it about you. Don't make it into a problem, just open to the information.

[Patty]

Thank you Dharma. Thank you for taking the time to address this to a stranger. What you write is insightful and clear and even scary.
I aim to be more accepting of myself and others, especially my wonderful and worrisome son. If I could slow down my knee jerk reactions in time to let this thinking take hold, what a simple yet huge change could take place...!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

If it hasn't been mentioned already, I recommend The Work of Byron Katie. All of her books are good, starting with Loving What Is. And you can also get free resources on her website: The Official Site for The Work of Byron Katie. It's got a lot to do with fighting against reality and the stories we make around events.

Good luck with your son.

[Patty]

Thank you, Aspiring To Clarity! I meant to answer you earlier. I first heard of Byron Katie via the magazine Ode, which is published out of the Netherlands. It's all good stuff. In fact, there is so much good stuff out there that it can be like clutter sometimes....too much self help talk, similar jargon, etc. Yet, anything which acts as a catalyst to becoming our best selves is worthwhile. Timing, openness to self betterment, etc. is key. I appreciate all of it! By the way, my son graduated from high school yesterday. For the moment, we are all enjoying his success!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Patty

Thank you, Aspiring To Clarity! I meant to answer you earlier. I first heard of Byron Katie via the magazine Ode, which is published out of the Netherlands. It's all good stuff. In fact, there is so much good stuff out there that it can be like clutter sometimes....too much self help talk, similar jargon, etc. Yet, anything which acts as a catalyst to becoming our best selves is worthwhile. Timing, openness to self betterment, etc. is key. I appreciate all of it! By the way, my son graduated from high school yesterday. For the moment, we are all enjoying his success!

Congrats for your son!

[dell]

Hi,

I understand Patty situation as I am in the similiar situation as her.

My son, a 15 yrs old teenage refused to listen to me and my wife house rules. Sometimes, he purposely go agst them and we got into confrontation. I learn to tell him the reason of my instruction and then the consequences if he refuses to listen. I told him that if he disobey, I will remove his computer , he challenge back to remove my computer when i removes his computer..... this is getting out of hand. i didnt want to raise my hand hence, feel helpless.

I have already removed some of his priviliges, like handphone, PSP

Anyone has some advice for me? Thanks.

[mej023]

dell there is really nothing anyone can say. Your belief system is being violated.

When that happens you react by withholding privileges.

Sure it sucks but the only way things will change is if you make the change in yourself.

You're stuck in the classic, "I'm the parent and you're the kid and you will do as I say or else".

[hawkal]

I know exactly what you mean patty, you see I seen this happen between my parents when I was younger and doing things against their wishes. They never agreed when they tried to discipline me and most of the time I would ignore it, especially from my dad because it was more often then not nonsensical drivel but the point was I was able to exploit this weakness and sometimes one of them would end up defending me, although I have to point out that it was never my intention. In hind sight I just wish my parents treated me more like an adult and talked about it in a civilised manner. That way I would of listened, nobody is going to listen to someone shouting at them and swearing.

One of the things that I would imagine everyone would want is control over their lives. As a child I was what my parents would call a "fussy eater" now in my opinion I don't think I am a fussy eater simply because all I wanted was control over what I ate and well my parents were just to ignorant to see it.