Marriage as the only valid option for a couple?

[Xieta]

I've seen in other threads in this forum that some people see marriage as the only "serious" option for a couple willing to share their lifes with each other.

I've been told to just move closer to my boyfriend instead of moving in so I can have more private time/space and to avoid possible future hard times. Why is it that my relationship cannot be taken as serious as other ones?

My boyfriend does not believe in God, and I have my own spiritual beliefs that do not match exactly any confession... why should we go and promise to love each other forever in front of a priest? Isn't it enough if we promise each other and we trust each other that we'll do our best to accomplish our common goals together, such as building a family, a couple relationship, and keep growing as individuals, with the support of each other?

Yes, I know religious weddings are not the only option. But I think that if it's not for religious reasons, marriage does not make sense. I signed a contract at work in order to protect myself from abusive hours or a lowering of salary or whatever. The company was interested in signing a contract to make sure I'd do my job. But what is it with marriage? In my opinion, if you don't believe enough in a person that you need a written paper saying that they'll be there, why would you want to share a life project with him/her?

I'd certainly never share a roof with somebody I don't trust. And I'd certainly never want a bad relationship held up by just a signature. And that's the main argument for marriage: marriages break up less. Well, it's just as easy for a married couple to have problems than it is for an unmarried one. The fact that there's too much hassle in divorcing is what makes unhappy married couples stay together. Why would I want that?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I don't think that marriage is necessary at all -- even to build a life together with a home and children. Hey, Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon are awesome and they have been together forever with kids and all and never married. Hahaha.

In the US there is a benefit to marriage for tax purposes as well as it giving the spouse the right to make medical decisions if the other spouse is incapacitated, etc. They sometimes won't let any "non-family members" in to see a hospitalized person (although I've always been allowed to stay with my bf when he was in hospital). I am not sure if it's the same in Spain. But, here you can also sign other papers for instances like that such as Medical Power of Attorney that make marriage unnecessary.

I think it's mainly a matter of preference. And benefits like I described above. Certainly not necessary to prove your love or make it official.

Do what's best for you and your partner!

Oh, by the way, your English is better than mine, and I'm a native speaker!

[Xieta]

Thank you! I'm a translator and despite not translating into English, I read BBC and National Geographic scripts all day

In Spain you have the option of registering as a couple but I think it's only useful when you want to claim money or properties one dies without a written will, and not much more. Anyway, that's solved by having savings in joint accounts and properties registered to both.

Now that we've achieved the legalization of gay marriages it's easier than ever to be unmarried... It's great to be able to choose... I just wish they were seen as equal options in the eyes of everybody.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Xieta

I just wish they were seen as equal options in the eyes of everybody.

I think that will take a little longer since in Christianity (and I am sure other religions?) it is a sin to "fornicate." I don't think they'll be changing their mind on that any time soon!

I'll support you in whatever you decide .

[Xieta]

My situation is one of the easiest, since I'm in a heterosexual relationship and in a social situation seen as "appropiate" (PhD, freelance job, etc) but still had to listen to a very long speech from my grandma saying "I know this is not like when I was young, when we lived under opression from a dictatorship and were as unmature at 30 as 9 years old are today, buuuuuuuut... you should get married. Period. That thing you do is plain dirty."

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Xieta

My situation is one of the easiest, since I'm in a heterosexual relationship and in a social situation seen as "appropiate" (PhD, freelance job, etc) but still had to listen to a very long speech from my grandma saying "I know this is not like when I was young, when we lived under opression from a dictatorship and were as unmature at 30 as 9 years old are today, buuuuuuuut... you should get married. Period. That thing you do is plain dirty."

I'm dirty right along with ya! How fun!

My grandparents, and even my parents, are the same way. They accept, but don't approve.

[Vasilisa]

I think that marriage is necessary when kids are involved. Just because it's the safest, most stable way to raise them and the most acceptable in the society we live in.
And the other side of the matter - very often when a couple is not married a woman still feels she is commited to a man; although a man feels like he is a free bird and keeps dating and exploring options.
Xeina, it will be interesting to hear about your experience with your boyfriend in a year or two. Will you have the same opinion about the marriage?

[Kristina]

I have to respectfully disagree with you on a few points Vasilisa, I disagree that marriage is the most stable and safest way to raise children. I would only agree with this, if the majority of marriages were stable (but the divorce rates show they're not), and safe (there are abusive marriages same as common law relationships).

I believe one of the more destructive things about marriage is how hard it can be to get out of, people stay in unhappy places for far too long, because of the children, because of the stigma/challenges of divorce. Sometimes this results in a stronger happier marriage when you can overcome these challenges, other times it results in two very unhappy, stressed people. What kind of a message does this send our children. Parents happiness and fulfilment is second to the childrens, that happiness is a thing of your youth?

I will however agree that it is currently the most acceptable way to raise children, that by no means makes it the best. The best way I've witnessed may very well be the way they do it in the polygamist colony in Bountiful BC (Canada), where the wives are strong support groups for each other, and cherish their children. The community involvement in childrearing is something few other places achieve these days. There are, however, other issues with this type of society but that's a tangent for another day.

As for unmarried men feeling free as a bird while the women feels commited. This is relationship assumption/expectation that just needs to be addressed. In every relationship people have expectations and assumptions (some they didn't even know they had). Whether it's a man believing that his wife is better able to parent then he is, or a wife believing her husband should be home for dinner everynight. Each of these is an assumption that is either addressed, or mutually accepted. It's just our accepted societal norms that we don't address these expectations until we are married.

I fully believe a couple can meet and succeed in overcoming these hurdles without being married. It's just going to take some active awareness in addressing them, and being commited to solving them and being together in the long term. The couple has to be on the same page, and their actions have to demonstrate that. This is really no different then any other mature relationship.

Kristina

[PerDev]

Isnt Marriage an Example to the socity of value of commitment you are showing and future generation learns something and you become role model for them

[Sanity Panda]

Hmm. I think there's still value in marriage from a non-spirtual or religious reasons. It's a way of expressing love.

You don't need to sign a contract to display love, but similarly you don't need give presents to display love as well. Yet people will still continue to do the latter, because it makes some happy.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Sanity Panda

I think there's still value in marriage from a non-spirtual or religious reasons.

I agree. I just don't think people who choose not to get married should be stigmatized or made to feel they do not have a valid relationship.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by PerDev

Isnt Marriage an Example to the socity of value of commitment you are showing and future generation learns something and you become role model for them

Maybe, but I don't think it's a very good example in its current state. I think committment can be displayed equally as well without the certificate.

[Dave Kaminski]

There should be no need to prove anything to society about your relation with the person or people you choose to love long term.

Feel no guilt in a relationship if it is mutually agreed upon and mutually beneficial - you are doing one another a wonderful service by sharing your love and support and there is no need for a legal document to enforce this.

Aloha!

[Brutha]

Other legal benifits would be the right to refuse to give evidence in a trial.

I think that will take a little longer since in Christianity (and I am sure other religions?) it is a sin to "fornicate." I don't think they'll be changing their mind on that any time soon!

In the bible belt of the US you may be right, but I think that in Europe it doesn't take that long anymore 1-2 generations and it the deep expection to get married isn't on the mind on everyone anymore.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Vasilisa

very often when a couple is not married a woman still feels she is commited to a man; although a man feels like he is a free bird and keeps dating and exploring options.

Please, this is such a stupid stereotype! Give us some credit, will ya?

Men are not like that. Some are, but it is not a trait that defines us.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Please, this is such a stupid stereotype! Give us some credit, will ya?

Men are not like that. Some are, but it is not a trait that defines us.

In addition to your excellent point, you don't have to get married to have a discussion on this topic and come to some consensus about your committment and what it entails.

It's not ever wise to just assume that your partner (married or not) feels the same way as you do about a particular topic. Also, married men have been known to act free as a bird and explore dating options. The certificate is no guarantee.

[sheffy4]

Originally Posted by Xieta

In my opinion, if you don't believe enough in a person that you need a written paper saying that they'll be there, why would you want to share a life project with him/her?

I think wanting to have a label of 'marriage' is not that different from wanting to label your dating partner a 'boyfriend' or 'girlfriend.' It makes things convenient and it lets the couple know where they stand with each other and with the rest of the world.
Why have any labels at all? Why not just say, "We like to spend our time together, and we plan on doing that for many years to come"? Well, for one, it's inconvenient and makes introductions awkward ("Hi, this is my male lover who has made a monogamous commitment to me," is a lot more complicated than, "This is my boyfriend."). But also, it tells both people in the relationship where they stand, and possibly what their "roles" are in the relationship. When I first start dating a new guy, things seem iffy and I'm afraid to really start committing until we decide, ok I'm your girlfriend and you are my boyfriend.
Some people just like to take that label to the next level into "wife" and "husband" territory. If you don't feel like you want to do that, than I don't see any problem with it.
I know some people might take you less seriously about the relationship, but I think it's becoming much more common for people to just date and not officially marry.

[Vasilisa]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Please, this is such a stupid stereotype! Give us some credit, will ya?

Men are not like that. Some are, but it is not a trait that defines us.

Well, Jim, I am giving you personally as much credit as you want.
I didn't know you were so sensitive about the issue or I would definitely phrase it another way for your sake.
If you insist, most men are the most devoted creatures and if they don't want to get married it's only because they want women they are with remain free and happy.

[Lauxa]

To me, marriage is a financial commitment and is a beneficial one for raising children. Having the money earned while married legally split 50/50 leaves the option for the woman (or the man, these days) to stay at home and raise children (or get a part-time, or just less stressful job) without sacrificing the financial security of herself/himself or the children. It also allows the whole family to be covered by the earner's medical benefits. And even if there are no kids involved, one partner can get a contracting job with higher salary but no benefits.

The downside is that if you ever do want a divorce, it can be financially devastating for both parties, partly because tax-deferred savings accounts must be split and there is a huge penalty for drawing on those accounts before a certain age, partly because if one of the parties is vindictive at all the legal fees can eat up the entire estate. Also, most of the benefits traditionally granted by marriage could probably be worked out with some legal specialists, and maybe done even better. But if hiring lawyers makes your head hurt, marriage is the easy way to accomplish a financial merger.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Vasilisa

Well, Jim, I am giving you personally as much credit as you want.

Lol... thanks!

I didn't know you were so sensitive about the issue or I would definitely phrase it another way for your sake.

I'm the Stereotype Buster baby! Knockin' em down one by one until everyone sees everyone else for who they really are. Yarrr!

If you insist, most men are the most devoted creatures and if they don't want to get married it's only because they want women they are with remain free and happy.

Much better! I like it

[Trezker]

None of my three sisters married but they're successfully raising families better than most married couples.

I think at least one of them have made up a separation contract so that if the relationship break all the arrangements are drawn up and agreed upon so all you have to do is split everything according to the contract and move on.

I think marriage sucks because it doesn't take separation into consideration. It's an obvious fact that even the most promising of marriages can break and when you haven't planned for it in time things get messy.

[Tigerlilly]

Do I think marriage is the only valid option for all the people out there?

No, I do believe people can live happily ever after together without ever being married, but just the same I know I couldn't. Marriage is a heart's desire of mine. And just as I'd think anyone arguing with me over THAT simply impertinent, I think it as impertinent to set up rules for other people in such a personal matter.

[Syr]

Marriage is mostly symbolism these days... unfortunatly symbolism with financial opportunities because of "traditional" reasons. Why can't other registered relationships have the same opportunities?

[Xieta]

Originally Posted by Syr

Marriage is mostly symbolism these days... unfortunatly symbolism with financial opportunities because of "traditional" reasons. Why can't other registered relationships have the same opportunities?

In Spain all registered relationships have the same opportunities, including taxes, healthcare, maternal/paternal leaves, etc.
I think all the new social policies our government has launched are by far their biggest and best achievement

[Rose of Cairo]

I personally cannot see any logical reason why on Earth I should get married. Committing to a relationship with someone is my business and theirs, wtf does the state have to do with that?

[Jamie]

I think marriage is completely unnatural (do you see animals getting married) and not needed. Ok if you want to get married, of course, that's your choice.

But I think it's a matter between 2 hearts and minds, and the state has nothing to do with it; why defer to the state? Or social custom? Only reason I can see to get married, is for tax benifits.

[m0vingon]

I've been married, had children and am now divorced. In my 20s being married meant to me that I was committing myself to loving and accepting someone for a lifetime. The reality wasn't quite that way because he didn't (couldn't) love and accept me. The drive to be in a relationship and work together to support one another seemed to dissipate after the ink was dry on the marriage certificate.

Now that the drive to be married is gone, I see relationships with a new clarity. I do not and likely will not have the desire or need to be married again, however a long term, committed, monogamous relationship is something that I desire. I'd prefer to wake up every day with the same person and make a conscious choice to be there (and have him do the same) than wake up beside my legally, morally, religiously appointed "husband" who i am with because I have to be.

Being rid of the need for titles and institution is freeing in my opinion.

[ideagasms]

Marriage is ignorant and fear-based when one considers the (purely materialistic) vow, "Until death do us part".

This does not take into account anything other than physical death. Apparently, one is supposed to accept lying, cheating, disrespect, etc., as well as possess another human being and reduce them to a thing.

Marriage was a nice concept about a million years ago when human beings typically died at age 30.

But today, apparently when one or both partners no longer share the same values and life purpose together, they MUST stay together until death? Puh-leeze.

Not to mention that 'death' is merely an mental construct (life merely changes form.)

Another thing - any mystic will tell you that breaking a VOW has some serious karmic consequences. I'd rather not mess around with that, nor do I think God is an invisible man in the shy who will become angry with me if I decide to start a new relationship someday.

Don't get me wrong, I think commitment is a beautiful thing. But, I do not commit to HUMANS, I commit to following my heart's values and desires (honesty, loyalty, respect, life purpose, etc.) first and foremost. Anything less is simply a lie. Jesus HIMSELF said, "Store treasures in heaven, instead of on earth". (parrot-phrased)

Therefore even Jesus will agree that "until death do us part" is a SIN (mistake).

And about the ceremony, I think it's beautiful. Have a celebration, invite your friends, drink wine.

About your guy not "believing in God", this is spiritually as well as scientifically naive. Check out Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. This is our new and updated "God", we can now let go of the God-fearing father-in-sky BS.

GOD = Consciousness ITSELF.

Follow along now, everybody's doin' it

Blessings,
Stephane

[hopena]

moving0n wrote: however a long term, committed, monogamous relationship is something that I desire. I'd prefer to wake up every day with the same person and make a conscious choice to be there (and have him do the same) than wake up beside my legally, morally, religiously appointed "husband" who i am with because I have to be.

Me too. There are times when I think that I might not mind being married to someone, if it felt right - that it could be good - but it's never been my number-one want or need.

[lasti]

There's no reason to marry someone. Why should marriage make your relationship any better?