.define what "a real woman" is right here.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Angela

You don't see the insinuation that people are stupid and closed-minded is as being on a "personal level"? If anything, it's much more personal; Rose was talking about a hypothetical person, and you told actual living people that they are not intelligent or open-minded.

Um. But you weren't talking about that. You were talking about my reaction to her woman in the bakery example.

And whether or not I judged is immaterial. That's a strawman argument. The fact remains that she did judge the woman in ther mind and most often that is worse than judging in reality. At least when it's out in the open you can defend yourself. You can't defend yourself if they don't tell you why they have a problem with you. And as you all are saying, things in the mind do manifest themselves. I don't think they do in the same metaphysical vibrationey many here say they do, but they do tend to snowball.

I don't think I ever said that anyone wasn't intelligent. I did say that people weren't open minded though. Still true. But that's not an insult. Insults are opinions. Open-mindedness is a fact or fiction. You can disagree with my statement that people here are closed minded, but that doesn't make it any more false.

[Plato]

Popcorn anyone?

Who cares anyway?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

You see. This is precisely why I dislike this individualistic independent world you all are creating. You COMPLETELY missed out on the most obvious reaction!

SmartAlx, these five reactions I listed are five possible reactions one can have in such a situation. I chose five examples that are very distinct from each other to get my point across. There are five hundred more possible reactions one can have in such a situation and I certainly didn't mean to list all of them. I didn't say either that these are reactions I would actually have. I wrote "I CAN" think... Yes, I can. Doesn't mean I necessarily do.

As for why your reaction is "the most obvious reaction", that's not clear to me. It's your choice and says a lot about you, period.

Even the one you clearly prefer, you have this air of supremacy in that reaction, as if you are somehow better than her.

I'm very curious to know which one you think is the one I clearly prefer.

It's quite rude of you to think that.

You have no clue what I think. What you perceive is your choice, as I already explained in detail. If you see me as arrogant and rude, it says something about you, not about me.

And I completely disagree with it.

You are free to do so. That's perfectly fine for me

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

SmartAlx, these five reactions I listed are five possible reactions one can have in such a situation. I chose five examples that are very distinct from each other to get my point across. There are five hundred more possible reactions one can have in such a situation and I certainly didn't mean to list all of them. I didn't say either that these are reactions I would actually have. I wrote "I CAN" think... Yes, I can. Doesn't mean I necessarily do.

Still, you did neglect to list another entirely different reaction that required humbly looking inside oneself.

As for why your reaction is "the most obvious reaction", that's not clear to me. It's your choice and says a lot about you, period.

Indeed. It does. You are quite correct. I am very happy knowing that you and everyone thinks that when something happens to me I look inside myself to see if I am the weak link before I go judging my fellow man.

Now why my reaction says a lot about me and the reactions you listed don't say a lot about you, I just don't understand.

I'm very curious to know which one you think is the one I clearly prefer.

Isn't it the last one?

You have no clue what I think. What you perceive is your choice, as I already explained in detail. If you see me as arrogant and rude, it says something about you, not about me.

While that's true, it nevertheless doesn't change the fact that if you do have any of the reactions you described, you are rude and as you added, arrogant.

[pianoperformer]

Actually, many people in that thread said they were not exclusive at all, and in fact listed books written by christians using this very same method! I guess you will see what you want to see.

Of course you don't think it works, just as I don't think your belief system works, or is true. Yet you are the one with the air of superiority saying those poor people practicing IM are being coerced by satan. Who's being judgmental?

Negativity is an opinion, not a fact, no matter how much you believe it is negative. There are many things in life we view as negative at the time, that come out to be positive. You are the one choosing to label it as negative. No one else. You further assume that you are supposed to have this situation in your life, and so resist these situations that are not to your liking.

Similarly, open-mindedness is also not a fact. I believe that you, in fact, are being very closed-minded. It is clear to me that we could debate about this forever and you would rehash the same arguments.

I know many people who make excuses for everything, and always blame things on external people, events, and things. These people are not happy. There is always some new excuse though for why they are not happy, or not succeeding, and they have a new great plan for ridding themselves of these external factors. Then, they come up with new factors to blame things on. They refuse to look at themselves as the source of all of their unhappiness.

I know others who realize that they are absolutely responsible for what happens to them, and they are quite happy. If something happens that they don't particularly prefer, they take steps to change it. They don't blame external factors.

[Playlife]

My thinking is that Rose being a rawfooder, she doesn't hang around at bakeries a lot anyway. No Rose in a bakery, no problem.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Actually, many people in that thread said they were not exclusive at all, and in fact listed books written by christians using this very same method! I guess you will see what you want to see.

Of course you don't think it works, just as I don't think your belief system works, or is true. Yet you are the one with the air of superiority saying those poor people practicing IM are being coerced by satan. Who's being judgmental?

Negativity is an opinion, not a fact, no matter how much you believe it is negative. There are many things in life we view as negative at the time, that come out to be positive. You are the one choosing to label it as negative. No one else. You further assume that you are supposed to have this situation in your life, and so resist these situations that are not to your liking.

Similarly, open-mindedness is also not a fact. I believe that you, in fact, are being very closed-minded. It is clear to me that we could debate about this forever and you would rehash the same arguments.

I'm not given an opportunity to discuss my ideas and you aren't challenging my beliefs because no one is responding to my ideas, only to the reactions I have towards their ideas. I am open minded. I change my mind all of the time, even beliefs close to the heart. I challenge my own beliefs. I was raised to believe that baptism was essential to salvation. I doubted that, searched, did research and figured out that it isn't essential. I did a lot of biblical research challenging things like "does Jesus ever say that he is God." He does. So I am open minded. Sometimes my open mind changes it, and sometimes my open mind strengthens my convictions.

See how that works? I refute your claim with evidence. If it's something you can refute with evidence, then it's a fact or fiction, not an opinion.

I would like for you to do discuss my ideas but there is none of that going on in this thread. Sure we argue, but about I-M, LOA and responsibility. But not about my position. For example, when I described how our influence stacks up with those like us, turns into a movement, then snowballs into a revolution. At best, the responses to my points have so far been "I disagree." And what's left out is "even though I don't have any evidence to support my position." Or "I don't want to give the evidence to support my position because I don't have time" or "I'd rather talk about my beliefs than refute yours."

I know many people who make excuses for everything, and always blame things on external people, events, and things. These people are not happy. There is always some new excuse though for why they are not happy, or not succeeding, and they have a new great plan for ridding themselves of these external factors. Then, they come up with new factors to blame things on. They refuse to look at themselves as the source of all of their unhappiness.

I just showed how I do look at myself. We don't FIND factors to blame things on. Factors make themselves obvious and we cannot ignore them.

I know others who realize that they are absolutely responsible for what happens to them, and they are quite happy. If something happens that they don't particularly prefer, they take steps to change it. They don't blame external factors.

I think they are "responsible for what happens" (meaning they accept responsibility) because the world works out for them, not the other way around. It's easy to be happy when everything works out for you.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

It's easy to be happy when everything works out for you.

I call that the "Rumpelstiltskin Syndrome;" but that's just an opinion, not a fact.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Still, you did neglect to list another entirely different reaction that required humbly looking inside oneself.

I did neglect to list many other entirely different reactions that required all kinds of actions.

Now why my reaction says a lot about me and the reactions you listed don't say a lot about you, I just don't understand.

The reactions I listed are not those that I usually would choose to have. They for sure say a lot about me when I happen to choose them, however I would not necessarily interpret them the same way you did interpret them (just as an example, I don't see how feeling compassionate towards someone and sending love to them is judging them or feeling better than them).

Again, how you interpret these reactions is your choice and a mirror of your own mindset, so there is nothing here to discuss.

Isn't it the last one?

No it isn't. Among the five possibilities that I listed, my favorite's #3. It's the funniest and most creative one

While that's true, it nevertheless doesn't change the fact that if you do have any of the reactions you described, you are rude and as you added, arrogant.

If it makes you feel good, I'm glad to be rude and arrogant in your reality

Does it make you happy?

Originally Posted by Playlife

My thinking is that Rose being a rawfooder, she doesn't hang around at bakeries a lot anyway.

True. And I never have angry people yelling at me, either.

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I think they are "responsible for what happens" (meaning they accept responsibility) because the world works out for them, not the other way around. It's easy to be happy when everything works out for you.

I was deeply stuck in crap when I began taking responsibility. After that, things slowly got better for me. You're free not to believe me of course.

My help obviously is not welcome, so I won't bug you any longer. Good luck to you. I wish you all the best on your way

[coLLege kid07]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Now why my reaction says a lot about me and the reactions you listed don't say a lot about you, I just don't understand.

I believe what Rose is trying to get across is that your "reaction" or your mind-identified position shows how developed you are at disidentifying from your mind.

The reason why is not the other way around (I'm not quite sure, haven't read the convo, am guessing) is that shes not identifed with her position and therefore doesn't really care to much about her reactions.

If I were you though...I'd take the time to step back..give a day or two..and come back to the conversation. (take your mind off of it) I'd then reread everything you wrote and reacess.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

These negative kinds of unexpected occurrences happen more often to certain people than to others.

This is a statement you keep making which I don't believe you can back up. How do you know that Angela or Rose don't face as many or more negative unexpected occurances in a day than you or anyone else? Sincerely.