.define what "a real woman" is right here.

[SmartAlx]

Mostly I just want understanding. Not finding too much of that here.

Mostly here, I'm finding nothing but, "it's your fault that the guy got in front of you and made you 10 minutes late for work."

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Mostly I just want understanding. Not finding too much of that here.

Well, I feel that I understand you, but agreeing is not the same as understanding.

Really, I understand where you are coming from. I get what you are saying. I was there. And, all of this posting was done with the intent to help you considering I find this way of life very empowering and helpful -- I like to share that. I wish you the best.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Mostly here, I'm finding nothing but, "it's your fault that the guy got in front of you and made you 10 minutes late for work."

Actually that's not what any of us were saying. I know for sure that I can speak for Angela and myself when I say that it's not about fault. Blame and shame are not part of the responsibility program.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Mostly I just want understanding. Not finding too much of that here.

Mostly here, I'm finding nothing but, "it's your fault that the guy got in front of you and made you 10 minutes late for work."

You want understanding, try generating it.

You seem to be willfully misunderstanding us, neither of whom has ever said anything is your fault.

Be what you want to see.

[lasti]

I understand you, too. I just don't agree.

But does that make you happy now?

[Apple Eye]

Originally Posted by Angela

Right, just like it's impossible for you to change the direction that the ballerina appears to spin, until suddenly it's possible after all.

I know this is a little off topic, but that ballerina thing is really cool!!

But how do you get it to spin in the opposite direction? I can't for the life of me get it to spin counter-clockwise. I keep staring but it only spins clockwise. I must be one big logical/analytical thinking machine...lol

Perhaps, Angela, you have a more balanced brain, as the blog says, and can see both?

I'm not refuting your point though. It's been my experience that you can change your thought process and perspective. Often the people I knew in school who did well were the hardest workers - they kept trying until they achieved success. If they were weaker in one subject, they studied harder until they understood the material. Ultimately, they arrived at the same place as the people who were more "naturally" adept at that particular subject, and surpassed the lazy students who were quite bright but rested on their laurels too long without continuing to work on their in-born talents. Humans have the capacity to learn and continually improve - that's really what makes us unique. You can train your brain just like you can train your muscles to make them stronger.

I bet if I worked at being more creative, and strengthened that part of my brain, I have the potential to achieve a more balanced brain. I think this is true for everyone. (And I guess I'm really not off-topic after all!)

[lasti]

At one point the ballerina will stop spinning. Or have you heard from an eternal spinning ballerina?
This is the point when you can decide to do your next spin in another direction.

[Apple Eye]

Originally Posted by lasti

At one point the ballerina will stop spinning. Or have you heard from an eternal spinning ballerina?
This is the point when you can decide to do your next spin in another direction.

My poor ballerina spins eternally.

Seriously, she doesn't at any point stop spinning for me. Is it supposed to stop spinning?

EDIT: The left-brain vs. right-brain idea seems to be an oversimplification of how the brain processes information. On the blog it says that if you see the ballerina spinning clockwise you are more logical/analytical, and if you see it spinning counter-clockwise you are more creative/intuitive. If you can see both you're more balanced? I'm not sure about this. I'm not sure what the science behind this clever optical illusion truly is, but does it necessarily reveal whether a person is more left-brained vs. right-brained? I'm not sure.

[Angela]

I think Lasti was referring to something more metaphysical, right Lasti?

The most fun part for me was when I was able to get her (the ballerina, not Lasti) to not only change direction at my will, but to keep her from spinning entirely -- that is, I got her to do can-can kicks, one side and the other, without ever doing a 360. Then I knew I was a sorceress.

One thing you might try, Apple Eye, is to cover her from the knees up, or knees down -- it's easier to "switch" her direction that way. Let me know if that works!

I'm not sure that changing your perspective is a matter of learning anything. I think maybe it's a matter of surrender -- letting go. People will only surrender when they're ready -- trying to "make" them surrender is something that caused me some pain, until I surrendered it!

[Apple Eye]

Originally Posted by Angela

I think Lasti was referring to something more metaphysical, right Lasti?

Oh, I see. Well, at one point the computer froze and she stopped spinning, and I was able to switch directions. But that was mechanical, rather than metaphysical. Also, when I look at it from my peripheral vision, it spins counter-clockwise, although clockwise is always my default direction. And when I turn my head 90 degrees, with the spinning image in my peripheral vision, count 10 seconds, and then look back, it has switched directions. That means so far I can trick something in my brain to make it switch, but I can't control it myself yet without the aid of a trick.

Originally Posted by Angela

The most fun part for me was when I was able to get her (the ballerina, not Lasti) to not only change direction at my will, but to keep her from spinning entirely -- that is, I got her to do can-can kicks, one side and the other, without ever doing a 360. Then I knew I was a sorceress.

Really!? I definitely can't do that yet. That's really interesting.

Originally Posted by Angela

One thing you might try, Apple Eye, is to cover her from the knees up, or knees down -- it's easier to "switch" her direction that way. Let me know if that works!

That didn't work for me, but the tricks I figured out worked.

Originally Posted by Angela

I'm not sure that changing your perspective is a matter of learning anything. I think maybe it's a matter of surrender -- letting go. People will only surrender when they're ready -- trying to "make" them surrender is something that caused me some pain, until I surrendered it!

Sorry for not being more clear about what I meant. When I was talking about learning, I was more specifically referring to my school example, and the whole brain thing. I was just trying to show that the hard-working students had a more positive perspective, in which they believed they had ultimate control over their grades and didn't have to necessarily rely on what nature had given them. They didn't see their weaknesses, or what other people told them about what they could achieve, for that matter, as being impenetrable barriers to success.

EDIT: My cousin told me to try this: Relax and think about nothing for a few seconds, breathing deeply, staring at the ballerina. It was so creepy! I did that and then the ballerina changed to a counter-clockwise direction! Also, switching my thoughts to something more creative worked - when I did a math equation in my head it switched back to clockwise. Very interesting...

[Playlife]

I can't help but wonder why is the ballerina topless. I think it's a subtle cue that real women don't wear bras.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

But you don't know for sure. You theorize that intention/manifestation is true, but you don't know for sure. That makes it a religion. It's a belief system that you use as a guide. The Bible is my guide. We both believe in a religion. Mine is Christianity, yours is intention/manifestation or personal responsibility.

Never heard so much c**p in my life!! Let me pick apart what you said, bit by bit.

I don't know for sure; yes, this is true, but what is knowing? other than taking up a mental position and considering it to be truth. All *knowing*; is delusion.

I theorize IM bla bla bla; nope; I theorize nothing. I intuit (feel), is what I do; there is a big BIG difference; one is about mental abstractions, the other is a feeling thing, getting past mentality to a more direct experience of yourself and of life.

Yes, you're right; I know nothing for sure; but I consider any form of knowing (intellectual, assuming a mental position) to be eroneous and unspiritual.

I don't have a belief system. I don't have a religion. I don't put myself in to any box. I don't do 'belief' ... I consider organised religion to be unspiritual.

You're welcome to your religion; really I have zero problem with that. I hope it serves you well; and I am most sincere in saying that.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Mostly I just want understanding. Not finding too much of that here.

Mostly here, I'm finding nothing but, "it's your fault that the guy got in front of you and made you 10 minutes late for work."

Nobody here said anything is your fault.

As I already said in my previous post (maybe I didn't say it clearly enough? Sorry), taking responsibility for something does NOT mean that it's your fault. It does not mean either that you have to control the situation you are in. On the contrary, taking responsibility has a lot to do with accepting the situation as it is without trying to control it.

What you CAN control, that's your thoughts about the situation you are in. Everybody can control their thoughts, even a hormonal pregnant woman. The problem is, most people just don't know they have this power. They think in a given situation they just have to react in a certain way. That's not accurate.

Not everybody reacts the same way to the same situation, right? If a guy makes you ten minutes late for work, there are many possible reactions. One person will get very angry, another will be afraid to get fired, a third one will keep calm and happy, and so on. Why is that? It's because what determines our feelings in a given situation is the thoughts we have about it. If a guy gets in front of you and makes you ten minutes late for work, and you think "oh sh!t now my boss is going to freak out and fire me and then I can't pay the bills and I'll end up bankrupt", you won't feel and you won't behave like someone who thinks "hey cool this guy is wearing a nice shirt. I'll see if I can find the same somewhere." You both are in the same situation, yet you'll react very differently. Get what I'm saying?

Now you'll say, the thoughts we have are programmed into us by Nature and Nurture, and that's true. The good thing however is that we can change them! When we are aware of them, we can choose them consciously. Most people unfortunately are not aware of their thoughts. They make the decision to think what they think, but without realizing that it's a decision. So for them it feels like the situation they are in directly causes their reaction indeed.

The point in taking 100% responsibility is to realize that your feelings are a consequence of your thoughts, not of the situation directly. Realize that by thinking the thoughts you're thinking, YOU create your feelings. It's not about the situation being your "fault" or not. It's about your feelings being home made. Take responsibility for your feelings and for your thoughts, instead of blaming them on someone else.

Taking responsibilty also means realizing that you can choose your thoughts. It's about making this process conscious. Become aware of your thoughts. Observe them. Make the conscious choice to think what you think - or to change your thought to something that's more empowering and makes you feel better. In order to do so, just choose another thought, that makes you feel better. It doesn't matter if it's doesn't feel "true" at first. Just think it. Focus on that new thought for about 20 seconds, that's enough for it to gain enough weight and live on its own in your head. You are free to choose any belief that you find empowering!

Yes, it requires a lot of work and practice and vigilance. Nobody said it's easy. But it's possible. And you can do it.

You are currently trying to control your environment. You're trying to control us (we should be more understanding), for instance, or the feminists (they should disappear ). That's completely pointless, because you cannot control such things. By taking responsibility however, you're able to let everything be like it is, even the unexpected things, because you change your thoughts about it. You're able to choose how you would like to feel and react to everything happening to you. So of course you feel better. You change the way you perceive life and the world, thus your reality. That's not controling your reality, it's creating your reality.

I don't know if that's a clearer explanation? Hope this helps.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

"you can choose to not be a slave to your genetics, your upbringing and blind luck"

completely contradicts

"you can't control all of those circumstances"

That's not a contradiction.

You CAN choose not to be a slave to your genetics, your upbringing and blind luck, by taking 100% responsibility for your feelings and by being conscious of the fact that you always are free to think what you choose to think and to react how you choose to react. Just like I explained above.

This in nothing means that you have to control all circumstances of your life.

When unexpected things happen, you still have this choice and can use your power. Thus you're not a slave. You're truly free

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Apple Eye

I bet if I worked at being more creative, and strengthened that part of my brain, I have the potential to achieve a more balanced brain. I think this is true for everyone.

You absolutely can improve your creativity. I can attest to that completely. I've done that dancing. This is why Creativity comes last in my list of the 7 influences over our decisions. Self can certainly affect creativity.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

What you CAN control, that's your thoughts about the situation you are in. Everybody can control their thoughts, even a hormonal pregnant woman. The problem is, most people just don't know they have this power. They think in a given situation they just have to react in a certain way. That's not accurate.

Not everybody reacts the same way to the same situation, right? If a guy makes you ten minutes late for work, there are many possible reactions. One person will get very angry, another will be afraid to get fired, a third one will keep calm and happy, and so on. Why is that? It's because what determines our feelings in a given situation is the thoughts we have about it. If a guy gets in front of you and makes you ten minutes late for work, and you think "oh sh!t now my boss is going to freak out and fire me and then I can't pay the bills and I'll end up bankrupt", you won't feel and you won't behave like someone who thinks "hey cool this guy is wearing a nice shirt. I'll see if I can find the same somewhere." You both are in the same situation, yet you'll react very differently. Get what I'm saying?

I see what you are getting at, and I agree that it's a good goal. But the problem I have with this philosophy is the belief that all you need to accomplish the change in your mind is to take responsibility. I completely disagree with that. It takes a LOT of emotional training to change the way your mind works. If you have rage issues "taking responsibility" isn't enough to keep you from bashing your car into the other one. You need help. Probably professional help. Oh yeah, getting professional help IS taking responsibility, but that's long term. If you apply "taking responsibility" to the long term, I agree. But it doesn't apply to the short term very well.

Now you'll say, the thoughts we have are programmed into us by Nature and Nurture, and that's true.

You've got to stop putting words in my mouth. Respectfully, you're not very good at it.

The good thing however is that we can change them! When we are aware of them, we can choose them consciously. Most people unfortunately are not aware of their thoughts.

EXACTLY!!! THAT IS MY POINT!!! Something enabled you to gain power over your thoughts!!! NOW YOU GET IT!!! It's not a conscious choice though. Something must push you in the direction. You must at least find a site like this one, or meet someone who will push you in the direction. And how many of the 6.5 billion people in the world have found this website? Yes, there are other people telling each other to control their thoughts and actions, but not everybody gets the message. If they don't get the message, then they ARE slave to Nature and Nurture and the other 4 outside influences.

The point in taking 100% responsibility is to realize that your feelings are a consequence of your thoughts, not of the situation directly. Realize that by thinking the thoughts you're thinking, YOU create your feelings. It's not about the situation being your "fault" or not. It's about your feelings being home made. Take responsibility for your feelings and for your thoughts, instead of blaming them on someone else.

So taking responsibility is ONLY about your emotional reaction to situations? If this is true, then why are so many people communicating that it means control of one's actions and that controlling your thoughts can create reality. Why call it "taking responsibility" when you really mean "control your thoughts?"

You are currently trying to control your environment. You're trying to control us (we should be more understanding), for instance, or the feminists (they should disappear ). That's completely pointless, because you cannot control such things.

No, I can't CONTROL it, but if I do my job right, I can influence it, especially when it involves the personal opinions of people, who CAN change their minds. You too are trying to influence the environment too by preaching personal responsibility.

By taking responsibility however, you're able to let everything be like it is, even the unexpected things, because you change your thoughts about it.

You're able to choose how you would like to feel and react to everything happening to you. So of course you feel better. You change the way you perceive life and the world, thus your reality. That's not controling your reality, it's creating your reality.

See? There you go... "CREATING reality." How does controlling your thoughts have an effect on reality? I can see how positive thinking can prevent personal negative reactions, but I don't see how it can keep an abnormally large number of unexpected occurences from happening. That's outside of my sphere of influence.

[lasti]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

If you have rage issues "taking responsibility" isn't enough to keep you from bashing your car into the other one. You need help. Probably professional help.

Becoming aware of ones feelings and thoughts and changing them is a skill. You can train it like a muscle. Do you need professional help when you go to the gym? Someone else can give you some advice, of course. But that doesn't change the fact that you're the one who has to take control over your mind. No one can do that for you.

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Something enabled you to gain power over your thoughts!!! NOW YOU GET IT!!! It's not a conscious choice though. Something must push you in the direction. You must at least find a site like this one, or meet someone who will push you in the direction. And how many of the 6.5 billion people in the world have found this website? Yes, there are other people telling each other to control their thoughts and actions, but not everybody gets the message. If they don't get the message, then they ARE slave to Nature and Nurture and the other 4 outside influences.

You don't have to find a site like this first. You could have also found out this attitude by yourself. Knowledge results from experience. You have experiences so you find out things.
It's true that not every one may see his or her options to change their attitude. But that's why people like Steve Pavlina and many of his readers try to raise the world consciousness.
And you can be one of them!

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

No, I can't CONTROL it, but if I do my job right, I can influence it, especially when it involves the personal opinions of people, who CAN change their minds.

I don't get that - Do you want to change other people? We talk about changing yourself in order to change your perception of reality and so your personal reality.

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

How does controlling your thoughts have an effect on reality? I can see how positive thinking can prevent personal negative reactions, but I don't see how it can keep an abnormally large number of unexpected occurences from happening. That's outside of my sphere of influence.

But who cares whether occurences are unexpected (doesn't have everyone a billion of them every single day in their life?)? If you don't react as the victim but as the creator, these occurences can't do anything to you anymore. And this is what counts, right?

[PerDev]

Originally Posted by Angela

Bitsy, in a way, you and SmartAlx are 2 sides of the same coin. What I mean is, you are both strenuously objecting to the actions and opinions of others, because you feel like they impede your freedom and well-being. For both of you, your buttons are getting pushed by people whom you fervently believe *should* be and act other than what they are and do. And *shoulding* others makes absolutely no difference -- you're just arguing with reality, because people aren't very likely to change just because you tell them they ought to.

But that's a real gift for you, if you choose to accept it. Despite the old pain you've suffered in this area of feeling like you're not free to express your femininity, or that you are in constant danger of being emasculated, no one has the power to inhibit your feminine or masculine side, except for You.

Acknowledging and accepting this power in the face of the contrary actions, beliefs, and words of others, could be the most direct road to real freedom for you.

Yes I think what you people think of is being Independent - Rather than that We would think about using the stength of otthers for the greater good of all which is interdependency

Also I believe we shoudl remove judging others and try to live life with openness which comes from the acceptance of others as they are - GOD has created them and There must be some greter purpose for the same