.define what "a real woman" is right here.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

You say we're using "metaphysics," yet you talk about God and luck.

And? I do have a religion. I at least admit it. I get my power from God, not metaphysics.

You choose to believe that someone or something else, e.g., God or luck, initiates chains of events, while others believe that one can initiate such things oneself, and is responsible for everything that happens in one's life.

You guys keep going in circles.

You certainly CAN initiate a chain of events. But you can't make yourself the ONLY initiator.

It's not a choice that I have that makes God or luck put me in situations. How do you get into situations? What is the factor in your life that puts you in the situation that got you stuck in an elevator for 5 minutes? If what you are telling me is true, you did it to yourself.

How on EARTH do you push the first domino over if you don't know that the domino exists? HOW did YOU find this website? Something outside of yourself enabled you to find it.

Which is more empowering? From personal experience, I can attest to the latter being much more empowering, though it can take a while to get used to the idea.

It might give an empowering feeling, but the power is an illusion. It's not real. You still have no control over the timing that will decide which elevator you get into. Oh, I guess you could wait for the next elevator, but you might just as easily wait and get into the elevator that gets stuck.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Exactly. I cannot control luck. But I have to deal with the effects of luck.

Well, I'm not sure it's so simple..

Our beliefs and expectiations, may well, influence what circumstances we draw to ourselves in life. It's the power of belief, or ... intent.

Your inner core, your beliefs, are a magnet for the circumstances you attract to yourself. Of course, if you hold a magnet close to a pin, the pin will move for sure. If you hold the same magnet at a greater distance from the pin, or to a larger and heavier metallic object; there won't be the same movement; but there is still a pull, still some (very tiny) force is exerted.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Indeed, I can control how I respond to the competition. I can control how I respond to the situations that luck generates. But I can't make that idiot in front of me go through the green light. I can't keep people from stopping at a green light because they fear that the light will turn red.

SmartAlx, can you not see how declaring the guy to be an idiot, and insisting that he's stopping because he fears the light will turn red, is YOUR RESPONSE to a neutral external circumstance? You have actually just created idiocy and fear. My guess is you're saying to yourself now, "it is objectively true, that person is a fearful idiot!" right? And that is more of your power to create how your life occurs for you -- your reality. The good news is that if you're able to create a world full of fearful idiots and responsibility zealots, that means you also have the power to create something that works better for you in living a life you love -- being related, loving, open, friends, and free. Or whatever works for you.

I can not always control my personal tendencies and hang-ups. That's what they are. If could control them, then they wouldn't be tendencies and hang-ups anymore.

Yes -- wouldn't that be lovely? Imagine if you DID have that kind of control. That's what 100% responsibility can provide for you. And it's a choice.

That's what an accountability partner is for. Ever heard of one of them? ... My accountability partner (if I had one) understands that sometimes I can't control my tendencies so they are there to give me the power that I lack.

Yes! You and everyone here, among them! My accountability partners (most of them) understand that my choices are my choices, and they are there to remind me to reclaim the power that I already have, and thereby remind themselves to reclaim their own power. And I must say, y'all do an incredibly powerful job of that! Thank you!

You can't always control your genetics and upbringing.

Well, that's debatable and it does enter the realm of metaphysics, so I won't go there. In the practical real world, you (and everyone else) has all the power in the world to make choices in the face of their genetics and upbringing. That's why one abused child grows up to be a criminal, and another grows up to be a peace activist. Choice.

Some people are more slave to their genetics and upbringing than other people. What is the difference between you being able to control your genetics and upbringing and someone else not being able to control theirs?

Choice. If you decide that you have no choice, then that's a choice you're making.

People need help to take responsibility sometimes and the personal responsibility movement isn't about helping one another with each other's responsibility. It's about individualism. Sure, you might encourage each other to take control, but you won't take the time to give them any of your power to help them to take responsibility. Giving power to each other goes against the movement's ideals.

What do you think I'm doing here now, if not encouraging you to own your power? You know why I do that? Because you are part of me, and I am part of you. We're in this thing together.

By the way, I hadn't realized there was a "Personal Responsibility Movement." I love that! Anybody ready to make picket signs and march on Washington with me?

[Playlife]

So, in a nutshell, a real woman takes 100% personal responsibility. (to get back to the topic)

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Playlife

So, in a nutshell, a real woman takes 100% personal responsibility. (to get back to the topic)

Or doesn't. Just like a real man.

This has all been on topic, by the way. It's a discussion about seeing how a woman occurs to the observer -- real? faux? lacking? complete? and how a judgement about "what a person is" actually creates the reality of that person for you.

When I say, "A real woman takes 100% responsibility, or she doesn't," I am creating an abundant, free world full of real women. And if I say, "A real woman is x" then I am creating for myself the occurrence of a World of Should.

[lasti]

Originally Posted by Angela

Choice. If you decide that you have no choice, then that's a choice you're making.

Yeah, a very good point. Thanks.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

You contradict yourself, or your quote anyway.

Actually those are not contradictory statements at all.

In any case, you are doing what is best for you, and I am doing the same for myself. I happen to think life is a lot more fun when you direct it yourself rather than being at the whim of God, other people, genetics, luck, etc. I happen to feel a lot better when I use the power I have instead of giving other forces power over me. But that's me. If you are happy with the way things are, then that is great. It just doesn't sound to me like you are happy so I was attempting to share what has worked for me. You don't feel like it rings true or that it will work for you so of course you are free to go on however you like. Just remember that if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Well, I'm not sure it's so simple..

Our beliefs and expectiations, may well, influence what circumstances we draw to ourselves in life. It's the power of belief, or ... intent.

But you don't know for sure. You theorize that intention/manifestation is true, but you don't know for sure. That makes it a religion. It's a belief system that you use as a guide. The Bible is my guide. We both believe in a religion. Mine is Christianity, yours is intention/manifestation or personal responsibility.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Angela

SmartAlx, can you not see how declaring the guy to be an idiot, and insisting that he's stopping because he fears the light will turn red, is YOUR RESPONSE to a neutral external circumstance? You have actually just created idiocy and fear. My guess is you're saying to yourself now, "it is objectively true, that person is a fearful idiot!" right?

Nope, I'm wondering why you are focused on me calling him an idiot in my head instead of you discussing the situation I described.

So, let's remove the word "idiot" from the context. That changes NOTHING. What ever I call him in my head, I still have to respond to the unexpected occurence.

You are missing the big picture people. Stay focused! I still have absolutely NO control over whether or not a guy stops at a green light. I can control my reaction to a certain extent, but I can't stop the event from occurring.

How can you not see this?

In the practical real world, you (and everyone else) has all the power in the world to make choices in the face of their genetics and upbringing. That's why one abused child grows up to be a criminal, and another grows up to be a peace activist. Choice.

I beg to differ. It's also the ability to choose. There are (I'm finding) 7 influences on us. (I added one (others) to my theory.) God, Luck, Nurture, Nature, Self, Others, and Creativity. Only ONE of them involves choice: Self. It MAY be true that free will enabled the one to become a criminal, but it's more likely that additional circumstances encouraged him that way. The reason they turned out differently is not necessarily choice but the fact that both are unique individuals living different lives. If both people have identical lives, they will respond identically.*

Choice. If you decide that you have no choice, then that's a choice you're making.

Presuming you HAVE a choice, but you don't always.

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Actually those are not contradictory statements at all.

"you can choose to not be a slave to your genetics, your upbringing and blind luck"

completely contradicts

"you can't control all of those circumstances"

I happen to think life is a lot more fun when you direct it yourself rather than being at the whim of God, other people, genetics, luck, etc.

I'm not giving those things power by doing something like believing in them. They exist. For you too.

In any case, you are doing what is best for you, and I am doing the same for myself. I happen to think life is a lot more fun when you direct it yourself rather than being at the whim of God, other people, genetics, luck, etc. I happen to feel a lot better when I use the power I have instead of giving other forces power over me. But that's me. If you are happy with the way things are, then that is great. It just doesn't sound to me like you are happy so I was attempting to share what has worked for me. You don't feel like it rings true or that it will work for you so of course you are free to go on however you like. Just remember that if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got.

My happiness depends upon me recieving help, but because the world is too individualistic, I can't receive the help I need. It's GREAT for people that don't have to deal with the unexpected all of the time, but for some of us dealing with the unexpected takes up most of our day. And we can't deal with that and do the things that you are able to do as well.


*If that is true, then "Self" does not exist. Free will is an illusion. But this philosophy is beyond the scope of this discussion so let's put it aside.

[SmartAlx]

Just answer me this question:

"Do things happen to your life that you did not expect?"

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Nope, I'm wondering why you are focused on me calling him an idiot in my head instead of you discussing the situation I described.

So, let's remove the word "idiot" from the context. That changes NOTHING. What ever I call him in my head, I still have to respond to the unexpected occurence.

You are missing the big picture people. Stay focused! I still have absolutely NO control over whether or not a guy stops at a green light. I can control my reaction to a certain extent, but I can't stop the event from occurring.

How can you not see this?

Here's what I'm focused on: You are insisting that you have no control over external circumstance (like a guy who doesn't go at a green light) that you can control your reactions to a certain extent, and that not everyone has a choice in the matter of their lives, so it's wrong for me to promote a perspective of 100% responsibility -- because we simply don't have control over everything.

SmartAlx, whatever you call him in your head IS your response, and your response is your choice.

100% responsibility is NOT about controlling everything. It's about recognizing the inherent choice you have in every moment, and how your choices determine how the world occurs for you -- what I call your reality. Playing the human game is a choice -- choice is something that is available and choosable for every human being, without exception. As you can see, you have a choice in some of your reaction, and what I'm saying is that you have a choice in ALL of your response. Every single, tiny bit of your response, you have a choice. So does everyone else.

Look, you are perfectly free to choose to believe that you (or someone) has no choice or no ability to choose. You are free to argue for your limitations all you want! And what I'm up to, as a Representative of the New 100% Responsibility Movement (NORM), is to point out that the ballerina can spin the other way, if you change your perspective. Because really, there is no ballerina, objectively speaking. It's ALL your perspective.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Just answer me this question:

"Do things happen to your life that you did not expect?"

No. Things don't happen TO my life that I don't expect.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Angela

No. Things don't happen TO my life that I don't expect.

Wow! So you knew that the guy was going to stop at the green light and that would make you 10 minutes late for work. You knew that the elevator was going to stop and you would be in there for 5 minutes. And yet you did not pass the guy when you had the chance as if you wanted to be late for work by 10 minutes, and you chose that elevator that was going to make you 5 more minutes late. Do you hate work that much?

If you have that kind of power, then it's no wonder you believe what you do. But imagine if you didn't have that kind of power. How would you live?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

"you can choose to not be a slave to your genetics, your upbringing and blind luck"

completely contradicts

"you can't control all of those circumstances"

No, it doesn't contradict actually. I am not saying all of those circumstances do not exist, only that you don't have to let them rule your life. You are the one who gives them their power over you. They are not innately powerful. They do not control you.

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

They exist. For you too.

Again, I never said they don't exist, only that they don't have power over me.

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

My happiness depends upon me recieving help.

You will never be happy. Oh, sure some of the time you will do okay, when other people do what you want them to, but in general, requiring certain things outside of you to be a certain way in order to be happy is a losing game.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Just answer me this question:

"Do things happen to your life that you did not expect?"

Constantly, all day, every day. I don't see what difference that makes though. Honestly, none of those things has control over me. I do.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Wow! So you knew that the guy was going to stop at the green light and that would make you 10 minutes late for work. You knew that the elevator was going to stop and you would be in there for 5 minutes. And yet you did not pass the guy when you had the chance as if you wanted to be late for work by 10 minutes, and you chose that elevator that was going to make you 5 more minutes late. Do you hate work that much?

If you have that kind of power, then it's no wonder you believe what you do. But imagine if you didn't have that kind of power. How would you live?

SmartAlx, you are so immersed in your perspective that you missed my point. Unexpected things don't happen TO my life, they happen IN my life. That's an important distinction to make. You see yourself as being AT THE EFFECT of the guy, the elevator, the job arrival time -- things that happen TO you, the victim. Conversely, I see unexpected things IN my life all the time. And they don't mean anything, except for what I make them mean. I have a choice in the matter of all of them. The guy (I could choose to honk, or flirt, or look to see if he needs assistance, or patiently wait, or phone my boss, or etc.), the elevator (I could choose to talk to other people who are waiting, and maybe meet someone interesting; I could think about a recent conversation, or psych myself up for the meeting I'm headed for, or phone the administrator to let her know I might be late, or turn around and go home and go back to bed), being late for work (well, I have already made my choice about that!)

The point is, you're right, I have all the power in the world. I don't need to imagine not having it, because it is infinitely abundant in my life. Yours, too! And one of the ways we can flex that power is to do what you're doing -- to deny that we have it. And that is perfectly fine!

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Angela

SmartAlx, whatever you call him in your head IS your response, and your response is your choice.

But I took it back, or more accurately, I proposed a completely different scenario in which a guy stopped at a green light, making me get stopped by a train, and I did NOT call him an idiot in my head.

100% responsibility is NOT about controlling everything. It's about recognizing the inherent choice you have in every moment, and how your choices determine how the world occurs for you -- what I call your reality.

And it seems to me that for you it is also predicting with absolute certainty the outcome of your choice. How do you achieve 100% success rate in your predictions?

I'm on board there about recognizing your choices, but you still won't admit that there are times when your choices are limited. It seems to me that you have the idea that you can will a certain choice into existence. If the road goes right or left for us, you decide that straight ahead is your choice, and you don't care if there is a house there. That's what I'm seeing anyway.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by Angela

SmartAlx, you are so immersed in your perspective that you missed my point. Unexpected things don't happen TO my life, they happen IN my life.

No, I saw it. I wrote what I wrote because you were making a semantic argument.

Let me rephrase the question then:

"Do unexpected things happen in your life?"

You already answered, yes.

My point is that for some people (me) the unexpected happens MUUUUCH more often than for other people (yourself) and while someone is dealing with the unexpected, he cannot deal with the expected, or his plans/dreams. He can't ignore the unexpected because it's between him and his plans/dreams. If you spend all of your time dealing with the unexpected, you don't have any time left for dealing with your plans and dreams. You can't take control of your life (plans/dreams) because the unexpected literally gets in the way.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

My point is that for some people (me) the unexpected happens MUUUUCH more often than for other people (yourself) and while someone is dealing with the unexpected, he cannot deal with the expected, or his plans/dreams. He can't ignore the unexpected because it's between him and his plans/dreams. If you spend all of your time dealing with the unexpected, you d