Not taking things personally. To the extreme!?

[metamorph]

I just read "the four agreements" by Ruiz and his second agreement is not to take ANYTHING personally. I just wondered what you guys think about it: Obviously, you should not take any negative or destructive comments personally, which I am quite aware of and try my best. But he says you should also not take anything positive personally (someone gives you a compliment, someone flirts with you, someone is in love with you). According to him it is their business alone, and has got nothing to do with you. It is just a refection of their inner state. I
t makes sense, but I have never thought about it. And I have to admit, although I am trying not to seek approval, I do feel a positive inner response if someone genuinely compliments me or if very attractive women flirt with me. It just lifts my state in a way. So is this wrong? Should you really not emotionally react even to positive input? And if yes, how do you do it? I have not met anyone yet, in whoes eyes I did not see a tiny sparkle in the eyes when someone genuinely complimented him or her. Also, how do you start any intimite relationship if you follow that agreement?
Ruiz also goes further: he says even if someone hates you and shoots you in the head, it is not "personal". I guess, I know what he means, but how much more personal can it get

[Angela]

I haven't read Ruiz's work, but "not taking things personally" doesn't necessarily mean not being engaged, affected, or moved.

"Taking things personally," I think, is hearing the words someone says, making them mean something about you, and making it a problem -- something that should not be. I can see where a compliment could be that: if you base your self worth on the number or quality of feedbacks you get from the other avatars, then you're at the effect of them -- you're vulnerable to lack and pain due to what others do or say.

You can't see it if you don't have it. If you were to practice looking at compliments and negative remarks as that person using you as a mirror (what they say doesn't mean anything about you, only them), you are free to respond with compassion and joy for their self-expression, their ability to see what's loveable about themselves, or their being present to discomfort with themselves. It's not that it has nothing to do with you, because you are in fact present and they have chosen you to interact with; it just doesn't mean anything about you. Not even the compliments.

You can still be touched, moved and inspired by things that happen and things that people say, even though none of it means anything about you. Right?

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by metamorph

I just read "the four agreements" by Ruiz and his second agreement is not to take ANYTHING personally. I just wondered what you guys think about it: Obviously, you should not take any negative or destructive comments personally, which I am quite aware of and try my best. But he says you should also not take anything positive personally (someone gives you a compliment, someone flirts with you, someone is in love with you). According to him it is their business alone, and has got nothing to do with you. It is just a refection of their inner state. I
t makes sense, but I have never thought about it. And I have to admit, although I am trying not to seek approval, I do feel a positive inner response if someone genuinely compliments me or if very attractive women flirt with me. It just lifts my state in a way. So is this wrong? Should you really not emotionally react even to positive input? And if yes, how do you do it? I have not met anyone yet, in whoes eyes I did not see a tiny sparkle in the eyes when someone genuinely complimented him or her. Also, how do you start any intimite relationship if you follow that agreement?

I loved his books! Those were the first ones i read,that got me into transforming my life. Read them all,they're worth it!

Regarding compliments,i understand what youre saying,it would be hard to not take those personally because the person is showing their interest in YOU,and to you it seems like 'wow i really impressed this person'. I think what you have to think about here is that the person is giving you a compliment because THEY were searching for this,they could have found it in a lot of people,really. Kinda like the same thing as negative comments only the opposite. It's hard to wrap your head around,i know LOL

Ruiz also goes further: he says even if someone hates you and shoots you in the head, it is not "personal". I guess, I know what he means, but how much more personal can it get

I know that example SOUNDS like the most personal thing someone can do to you,negatively,but think about it; they wouldn't be doing this AT ALL if they didnt have it in them. They would have done this to somebody else if it wasnt you. They had this awful feeling inside them which didn't take much to let out. They wanted to let this out. You do not MAKE someone want to kill you,they have to have that want inside of them already. It all begins with the other person,negative or positive.

[uberinquisitive]

My interpretation:

It's fine to feel emotion. If someone criticizes you, it's ok to feel hurt. If someone pays you a compliment, it's ok to feel great.

However, you don't cling to that event. You don't base your identity around that event.

You realize that you are the ocean, and those events, whether positive or negative, are surface ripples. During a hurricane, the waves are huge. During a sunny day, the waves are even. However, underneath it all, the ocean is always calm and deep.

Now, if only I can remember this...

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

My interpretation:

It's fine to feel emotion. If someone criticizes you, it's ok to feel hurt. If someone pays you a compliment, it's ok to feel great.

However, you don't cling to that event. You don't base your identity around that event.

You realize that you are the ocean, and those events, whether positive or negative, are surface ripples. During a hurricane, the waves are huge. During a sunny day, the waves are even. However, underneath it all, the ocean is always calm and deep.

Now, if only I can remember this...

I LOVED this!! I want to print this out and tape it to my fridge so i can remember it every day!

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by Angela

I haven't read Ruiz's work, but "not taking things personally" doesn't necessarily mean not being engaged, affected, or moved.

"Taking things personally," I think, is hearing the words someone says, making them mean something about you, and making it a problem -- something that should not be. I can see where a compliment could be that: if you base your self worth on the number or quality of feedbacks you get from the other avatars, then you're at the effect of them -- you're vulnerable to lack and pain due to what others do or say.

You can't see it if you don't have it. If you were to practice looking at compliments and negative remarks as that person using you as a mirror (what they say doesn't mean anything about you, only them), you are free to respond with compassion and joy for their self-expression, their ability to see what's loveable about themselves, or their being present to discomfort with themselves. It's not that it has nothing to do with you, because you are in fact present and they have chosen you to interact with; it just doesn't mean anything about you. Not even the compliments.

You can still be touched, moved and inspired by things that happen and things that people say, even though none of it means anything about you. Right?

But how can you be (emotionally) moved and it still does not mean anything about you. Logically, I can follow. But if you are really emotionally moved does it not mean it does mean something (otherwise you would not react that way)?

I actually found similar lines with Tolle (letting go of the ego means also letting go of both (good and bad judgments) and Dyer: "One of the highest places you can get to is to be independent of the good opinions of other people."

[Angela]

Originally Posted by metamorph

But how can you be (emotionally) moved and it still does not mean anything about you. Logically, I can follow. But if you are really emotionally moved does it not mean it does mean something (otherwise you would not react that way)?

Well, like what? What would it mean? The meaning is up to you. That's a lot different than being at the effect of circumstance, like someone saying something about you. They may be utterly convinced about the "truth" about you (whether positive or negative) and still what they think or say has absolutely nothing to do with the truth about you.

I actually found similar lines with Tolle (letting go of the ego means also letting go of both (good and bad judgments) and Dyer: "One of the highest places you can get to is to be independent of the good opinions of other people."

Yeah, that's the hard part, isn't it! We want to believe the good things people say about us. But the good opinions are exactly as true as the bad opinions! There's real freedom in REALizing that.

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by Angela

Well, like what? What would it mean? The meaning is up to you. That's a lot different than being at the effect of circumstance, like someone saying something about you. They may be utterly convinced about the "truth" about you (whether positive or negative) and still what they think or say has absolutely nothing to do with the truth about you.

But can you really be selective in what input you believe or accept from others. Like, if people think you are lovely, than thats OK, but if they think you suck, then that is nonsense. I am not sure if you are truly subconsciously able to do this.
Or should you rather think: You can think about me what you want, but it will have no effect on me whatsoever! You can see me as Jesus or as Satan, I do not give a hang...

[Angela]

Originally Posted by metamorph

But can you really be selective in what input you believe or accept from others. Like, if people think you are lovely, than thats OK, but if they think you suck, then that is nonsense. I am not sure if you are truly subconsciously able to do this.

Well, that's where the power lies. If you are able to see that everything anyone says about you is equally true, whether it flatters you or not, and that it doesn't inherently mean anything about you, then the next thing you'll see is that the same is true of your own thoughts. And then you are free.

Or should you rather think: You can think about me what you want, but it will have no effect on me whatsoever! You can see me as Jesus or as Satan, I do not give a hang...

No shoulds about it. You should think what you think, because that's what you think. But do you believe your thoughts are the truth? Do you believe the thoughts of someone who sees you as Jesus or as Satan are the truth? One is as true as the other.

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by Angela

But do you believe your thoughts are the truth?

Well, I try to believe so !But I appreciate, they are subjective, of course. Is this not the basis for having self-esteem?

Originally Posted by Angela

Do you believe the thoughts of someone who sees you as Jesus or as Satan are the truth? One is as true as the other.

That's were it gets tricky. I used to to believe the positive thoughts of others, but lately I do not quite believe you can really do this and, at the same, truly reject the negative thoughts. What if someone's opinion on you changes? First he or she was your friend, and her ideas about you were "correct" and now all of a sudden you tell yourself that the very same person is now "incorrect"? I think subconsciously if you choose to believe this person in the first place, then you will subconsciously stick to it no matter how much you fight it consciously. At least this is my experience. Does it make sense?

So more in practical terms some scenarios:

1) Yesterday, there was a girl at a coffee-shop, who very blatently flirted with me and literally undressed me with her eyes.
I was not particularily attracted to her, but my first response was a flattered inner smile thinking "You think, I am hot. You are right!" and "Easy now, come on, I am not a piece of meat...". But then I very quickly got back to the thinking in this thread: " maybe she just wanted approval or sex and she just picked me today, because I happened to be there at that time. So literally anyone who would have fitted into the "pattern" would have provoced the same responses.

So was it personal or not? I guess it was not.

But what is personal? Is it personal if your wife says she loves you, or is it just her opinion about you because you happen to induce certain feelings in her (like feelings of security, harmony, love, being respected etc)? Is this personal or are you just the mirrow of her needs and desires? If it is personal, why is it different from the girl above, in which I "induced" maybe feelings of sexual attraction/desire?

And if nothing is personal, do any personal bonds and ties really mean anything? Are they all just egoistical from all sides and never "personal"? Let's say a very good friendship turns shallow. Maybe your friend saw something in you, and now changed his or her mind or vice versa. Should you bother, if it never meant anything in the first place?

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

My interpretation:

It's fine to feel emotion. If someone criticizes you, it's ok to feel hurt. If someone pays you a compliment, it's ok to feel great.

However, you don't cling to that event. You don't base your identity around that event.

You realize that you are the ocean, and those events, whether positive or negative, are surface ripples. During a hurricane, the waves are huge. During a sunny day, the waves are even. However, underneath it all, the ocean is always calm and deep.

Now, if only I can remember this...

I love this as well, but find it difficult to put into practice. For me it is either, I don't even let waves happen, because I am so grounded in my self-esteem that there are no waves (e.g. I don't get angry, I don't get emotionally stirred up) or, on unfortunately still too many low-energy days, there are waves and they do also move the ocean underneath to some extent. At least I think so...(?) Where do you draw the line between ocean surface and deep ocean? E.g. if you are in an argument with someone, and after a day or so it is all fine again... but then much later a similar situation recurs and you remember the previous argument. Does it mean it did move the deep ocean? I guess, it did, since, as you say, "you cling to that event". But can you ever truly consciously completely let go of something that really moved you? Let's say hypothetically a good friend betrayed you and stole from you etc. Even after years, would there not be a tiny bit of reservation towards that person, compared to other people.

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

THEY were searching for this,they could have found it in a lot of people,really. Kinda like the same thing as negative comments only the opposite. It's hard to wrap your head around,i know LOL

Yeah, it does make sense. Just wondering if anything interpersonal then really matters at all...

[Angela]

Originally Posted by metamorph

That's were it gets tricky. I used to to believe the positive thoughts of others, but lately I do not quite believe you can really do this and, at the same, truly reject the negative thoughts. What if someone's opinion on you changes? First he or she was your friend, and her ideas about you were "correct" and now all of a sudden you tell yourself that the very same person is now "incorrect"? I think subconsciously if you choose to believe this person in the first place, then you will subconsciously stick to it no matter how much you fight it consciously. At least this is my experience. Does it make sense?

Sure! It's simple, but not necessarily easy! In my experience, I often forget and I start to believe my own thoughts and the thoughts of others, without question. It can be hard, because the "correct" opinions (the ones that reflect qualities you want to see in yourself) are so seductive, aren't they. And you sure don't want to believe the "incorrect" ones -- the ones that reflect something you don't want yourself or others to see in yourself. And each is as true as the other, that is to say, they are only thoughts in a person's head, not The Truth. One way to free yourself of your "subconscious" or habitual thoughts is to shed light on them -- to boldly look. It's a practice.

1) Yesterday, there was a girl at a coffee-shop...

It sounds like you saw that this girl's thoughts mean nothing about you. You might feel validated in your hotness by what you think you see in her face, and you might feel violated, thinking that she considers you a piece of meat, and you might feel compassionate towards her because you think she needs approval or sex or that she's mentally ill. And all of that, you can see, is you making meaning. All your thoughts about her mean nothing about her.

But what is personal? Is it personal if your wife says she loves you, or is it just her opinion about you because you happen to induce certain feelings in her (like feelings of security, harmony, love, being respected etc)? Is this personal or are you just the mirrow of her needs and desires? If it is personal, why is it different from the girl above, in which I "induced" maybe feelings of sexual attraction/desire?

Your wife's feelings and thoughts are her own, and they don't mean anything about you. That is not to say that it's an accident that you two came together, and that she would feel the same way in the presence of any old guy.... no, the two of you have thoughts and characteristics that make you wonderful mirrors for each other, in ways that you both chose, in ways that are very special. It still doesn't mean anything about you. Regardless of your wife's feelings and thoughts, you are perfect, whole and complete and lovable. (of course, that's just meaning that I make about you! Why? Because it works for me in living a life I love.)

And if nothing is personal, do any personal bonds and ties really mean anything? Are they all just egoistical from all sides and never "personal"?

I don't believe that relationships must fall into one of these categories or the other. In fact, I don't believe that "nothing is personal" (or that "anything is personal", either ). These words "personal" and "egotistical" don't mean much to me at all, actually. They're just limits that I don't have any use for (kind of like "shame" and "blame".)

You might want to check out The Work of Byron Katie. She is very, very good at demonstrating the value of questioning your thoughts, and The Work is a very practical and effective way of seeing quickly what I'm blathering on about. She wrote a wonderful book called, "A Thousand Names for Joy: Living in Harmony with What Is," and you can also read about it on her website.