Do pretty people have better lives than ugly people?

[PianoManGidley]

I wonder this, because I've never had that much confidence in myself because I was always picked on growing up, and I feel that part of that was because I'm not very attractive physically. I can't help but feel that people who are more attractive physically end up getting more people supporting them, giving them confidence, which they end up harnessing themselves, which helps them get ahead in life. I can't seem to get much of anywhere because I don't have self-confidence because hardly anyone took the time to make me feel like I have any self-worth. So even though I write music, I'm afraid of putting it out there because I feel like I'd be inconveniencing people for them to listen to it and evaluate it, and that they're probably not going to like it anyway. This leads to me not even writing that much music in the first place, so I end up not being very prolific, and for that reason, I feel even WORSE about myself because all the successful composers are, like, constantly writing. So...what are your thoughts?

[YourSelf]

Look...

Many people will probably answer something pre-defined such as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", that beauty is subjective and that its standards change throughout time.

In part they are true, in part they exaggerate or misuse the statement of subjectivity.
They are true in the sense that it is visible throughout history that there have been, indeed, different ways of defining aesthetics. Until 18th or even 19th century it was a sign of social prowess to be chubby and "fat" since it showed that you could eat a lot and were actually well off. See a few old portraits and you'll notice that even Helena, the most beautiful woman of ancient times, is depicted in a way that most people in the 20th or 21st century wouldn't consider beautiful.
Often you get different standards for beauty also within the same period of time (mainly across geographies), but there is always one ideal, one model of human beauty towards which all other different forms of beauties somehow converge.

What can be said for sure is that social standards for beauty are definitely more generalized than individual tastes: for instance, I might like a girl with a slight asymmetry in her face and be really attracted to her, while the rest of society actuall considers her ugly (better for me, lol, no competing suitors!).

However, a specific set of social standards in beauty - as in anything else - prevail in determining the effect on the psychology of the people having it (depending on how exposed they are).
And here I think that being beautiful ("beauty" in the sense of beauty standards by the given society at a given century) does help.

But it usually isn't anything that comes from within. It's a kind of self-awareness about how the rest of society perceives one. When you know that others think you are beautiful (and better, if you hear it), your "ego" is solidified.
And whatever strengthens your "ego" will possibly assist you in conducting a better life.

This doesn't mean that all beautiful people (again, with beauty meant in the social sense) get ahead in life only because they're aware that they are beautiful, nor does it mean that there aren't other valid sources of self-awareness and ego-strengthening.
And most importantly, this doesn't mean that all beautiful people actually ever become self-aware of how beautiful they are: there were many girls I knew who I personally considered very pretty, but from the way I spoke with them it seemed like they believed to be ugly as hell...
So, not all beautiful people get ahead in life. The key requirement is self-awareness.

With regards to composition... ehm... many really great succesful composers were/are actually bad-looking in my opinion. I don't think that anybody cares about how they look; people rather care about how they sound.

There was a period in which I was very fat and people just laughed at me. Still, I was good at a few things for which people actually praised me at that time

But perhaps you are also shooting music videos' or something like that...?
I didn't really understand the direct connection between physical appearance and success in music...

In any case, it's all just random social dynamics. Trust me, in a few decades there'll be totally new standards and stereotypes for beauty, so I don't think it isn't worth basing your musical success on your physical appearance.

[Plato]

The way I see it, everybody gets crap thrown at them during a life time. It's the people who handle it best and develop strength of character that are happy. Initial struggles can be a huge asset in developing the kind of character that leads to a happy life. Many of the things that I enjoy most in my life, I would never have found if I hadn't suffered and looked for solutions...

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I don't pretty people have "better" lives...everyone has things in their past or things they don't like about themselves or ways that they were picked on. However, I would equate it to white vs. black -- sometimes one has it easier than the other. Society will more easily grant one certain privileges. But at the same time, there is a lot to be gained from adversity. As Plato said, you can grow a great deal and develop strong character.

I am not saying it's easy to overcome that, but when you get to the root of it and find out what you let those things mean about yourself, you can begin to turn it around.

[MidasGirl]

What exactly do you mean by "better"?

If you mean what I suspect you mean, that is, more successful, then I'd have to say NO. Confidence comes from within. I've seen as many emotionally screwed up "pretty" people as I have "ugly" people. Pretty people might be even more screwed up socially if they have bought into the idea that they are supposed to be catered to because they are pretty. They might begin to place their worth in their looks. The truth is though, external beauty is of the level of the ego so never provides the kind of fulfillment you get from being a Truly beautiful human being. Then you will keep chasing "external prettiness" like a dog chasing tail. Which might explain why people who are into plastic surgery keep going back until they finally look like Joan Rivers, and still be convinced they are pretty.

I'd wager to say, you just feel that way cuz your excuse for your low self confidence is "ugliness", and who knows if you are really ugly or you just hallucinate that you are? Post a full picture, we'll tell you

Bottom line, you have chosen this crutch as your excuse as to why you will avoid putting yourself out there, composing and risking rejection ("I'm ugly already, so why try anyway? Look at all these cute successful people, such as Donald Trump")

[JimOfferman]

Short answer: NO!
Long answer: NO!

I don't think any of the top composers got to where they are because of their good looks. Being a pretty boy ain't gonna help if you can't make the music sound right!

[PianoManGidley]

Jim and Yourself: I didn't mean to say that my looks were directly connected to my success as a composer, but it's a downline sort of method...let me try to spell it out more clearly:

I am not attractive -> People pick on me for not being attractive (among other things) -> People picking on me steals away any semblance of confidence I have in myself or sense of self-worth -> I become reclusive, shy, and not very social -> I do not put myself out in situations that might allow me to succeed because of social fears and anxieties -> My music doesn't get heard, and I am therefore not a success.

So if I changed the starting point, I could logically play an alternate life like this:

I AM attractive -> People don't pick on me as much and instead are warm towards me and encourage me -> My sense of self-worth and confidence are boosted and bolstered -> I become outgoing and socially active -> I advance on opportunities that might make me successful -> My music gets heard, and I become successful in getting my music published, performed, and recognized.

But to change that, I'd have to find a way to both go back in time and alter my DNA so that I'm attractive growing up. Which I obviously can't do.

Midas: Only people online seem to think I'm attractive--I think the camera and Internet collaborate to make me appear more attractive than I really am. As for "real world" situations, I can count the number of times I've been hit on with a single hand. This leads me to believe that I'm not really that attractive, and that pictures of myself I post online are misleading for some reason.

[Joukai]

You're letting yourself get banged up by things you have no control over. You're letting yourself be thrown around.

Pretty people don't have better lives. That's just silly, even though it's a very common excuse to use when things aren't going your own way. Looks are nothing, even though it may seem so. Forget about it! Even if it mattered, what good would it be to you to dwell on such matters?

I also thought looks were the all and nothing... till a non-attractive friend of mine snatched my girl. It's all about who you are, not what you look like.

[YourSelf]

May I know just how specifically they picked on you for not being attractive?

Plus, is this lack of attractivity something totally undynamic (e.g. that you can't counterbalane throught weight loss, weight gain, good clothing, better haircut, etc.)?

As I said, I have been fat and people sometimes laughed at me (I didn't really care since I had other things in my mind), but I lost a lot of weight and soon noticed how people reacted differently.

Then I've had long hair like a heavy metal freak... after I cut them the reactions changed.

There's one thing I cannot change to experiment the effect on other people... and that's my skin color (I'm dark-skinned, as I mentioned in other topics) :P

[PianoManGidley]

Originally Posted by YourSelf

May I know just how specifically they picked on you for not being attractive?

Well, I was born and raised in Tulsa, where my parents enrolled me in a private Christian school, where all the kids were such goody-two-shoes that no one called out anyone else on anything that might be considered socially unacceptable behavior, so when my family moved to Houston the summer after I finished 4th grade, I started attending public schools in a rather ghetto community, where kids are much more ruthless, and because I hadn't been shaped up to that point on what was socially acceptable behavior and what wasn't, I was easily singled out and almost instantly outcast, and it took me until college before I actually was able to bloom socially...this after having gone through many years of strong suicidal and homicidal thoughts, including several attempts to take my own life.

Also, in that public school district, I was a racial minority (I'm White, and most students there were Black and Hispanic). I've also been severely overweight or obese all throughout my life (up until this year, when I started finally getting in shape and dropped a lot of fat), so that contributed to my overall "ugliness" for which I was chastised. And because I actually liked unpopular things (certain music genres such as classical, jazz, and new wave; billiards; learning about Nazi Germany and the Holocaust; learning in general; mathematics; chess; philosophy and theology) and didn't like the popular things (sports, rap and pop music), people had further reasons to criticize me. In essence, I was the fat, White, nerdy kid that wasn't very good at social interaction. Plus having to deal with my developing homosexuality and contradictions between my own religious beliefs and those of my family, I had a lot of internal struggles that just added to everything else.

Plus, is this lack of attractivity something totally undynamic (e.g. that you can't counterbalane throught weight loss, weight gain, good clothing, better haircut, etc.)?

Contrary to popular stereotypes, even though I'm gay, I have no sense of good fashion or styling or anything like that. I'm a T-shirt/shorts kind of guy, and don't do much to my hair. But, as I stated above, I AM getting into better shape, at least...but I still feel that I'm not that attractive, as the face is usually a deciding factor, and I feel my face is rather plain.

[MidasGirl]

PMG, it is not what happens, but the meaning we give to what happens that determines how we will react. Wayne Dyer talks of how he and his brother grew up in a zillion foster homes, dad left them when they were very young etc. Basically what we can all agree was a painful child. But you know what? He ended up becoming the personal development teacher he is today, and he credits it to his painful experiences that shaped that destiny for him. His brother on the other hand, chose the victim route. You see? Two people experience the same pain and one chooses to use it to help others and become super successful and the other chooses to use it to be mediocre.

I think each one of us can recount painful experiences growing up (even those who had a stellar childhood still can find something to whine about!). I have chosen to believe that these people who tried to program me with negative stuff didn't know any better, and that I am who I decide I am. I am the only person who gets to decide that.

Listen, I'm not gonna pretend society doesn't judge people based on looks. Take action of the things you have control over -- lose weight if you feel you need to, learn to dress up to match the incredible human being that you are etc. But most importantly, shift your attitude about the meaning you give to things that people say/have said to you.

All the best!

[silicon toad2000]

on the face of it I would say yes, pretty people appear to have better lives, but I think it's the whole 'are rich people really happy?' argument.
I certainly think if you took two people who had the same personality and made the same choices in their lives, the 'pretty' person would have an easier time of it than the ugly person.

[Bitsy]

Originally Posted by PianoManGidley

So even though I write music, I'm afraid of putting it out there because I feel like I'd be inconveniencing people for them to listen to it and evaluate it, and that they're probably not going to like it anyway.

I am exactly the same way, only with my writing, not music, words. I write a lot, actually, for a multitude of reasons, but sometimes I write with an intent to publish something and I usually quit after I get to chapter 2 because I as I read over what I have written, I sit there asking myself, who is ever going to find any of this worth reading...it's boring. And in general, even on forums, I think people are not interested in anything I have to say.

I was teased a lot too and I also chalked it up to me being ugly. The fact is, though, what you look like is not the point or the issue. The issue is how you feel about yourself. People can make you feel bad in an infinite number of ways, it doesn't just have to be about looks.

[jaamkie]

I don't believe that being relatively more beautiful than others necessarily helps you have a happier life- I'm sure it is a factor in how you are treated by others, but as far as directly having more confidence I think it could be argued either way- that being constantly told "you're gorgeous" would just set up a lot of insecurity if you start to not hear it as often, would make you wonder whether you are valued for your intelligence/personality or just for your looks, make you feel weird that you're being complimented for something that is genetic- like your biggest accomplishment in life is being born with the right genes.

[ZHereford]

Hey PianoManGidley,

If you enjoy writing and playing your music do it no matter what. If it's good it's good, no matter what you look like. If it's not so good your looks wouldn't help anyway. We all need to express ourselves. It's part of why we're here.

I suspect you're better looking than you think. Here's an article I wrote that might help you think differently: Dare To Be An Original.

Be who you are PianoManGidley!

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by PianoManGidley

But to change that, I'd have to find a way to both go back in time and alter my DNA so that I'm attractive growing up. Which I obviously can't do.

No you can't, but you don't need travel back in time or change your DNA to become attractive. What you need to do is change how you think about you!

I know you can do that - because I have done it too.

I used to think I was quite the ugly duckling and my classmates were only too keen to remind me at least twice a day. It got to a point where I could hardly look in the mirror long enough the shave myself in the morning.

Then one day I wrote a song about being proud of who you are. And I started thinking: how can I sing this, if I am not proud to be me? So I did the unthinkable: I started telling myself that I wasn't ugly, but rather good looking and I did my very best to smile at myself in the mirror...

I needed five years to change from telling myself I was beautiful every day to knowing it in my heart, but other people's opinion about that started to change for the better within the year.

Real beauty comes not from the surface but from deep within you - it is the glow of your heart shining out.

[Erock]

Coming at this from a larger perspective I think the more a person is attached to their ego the more they suffer.... period. From a completely objective stand point though I guess you could say beautiful people have more objective success than ugly people, however, they do not suffer any more or less because of it. I would say they probably suffer more because they are more attached to their image/ego, so in the grand scheme of things it's probably worse.

I mean think about it. The more beautiful you are at 20, the uglier you are in contrast at 40 or 50. You gotta see that everything has an opposite, for every pleasure there is a pain associated, the same goes for beauty. The only way out is non-attachment.

Erock

[garentee]

I had an interesting conversation with my employee yesterday. She was telling me about her best friend who is wicked hot(her words)...her friend does not think so... I said that looks are fleeting. What I meant by that is that our looks change over the course of our lives based on what is going on inside of us. She illustrated this point by explaining that sometimes people look completely different when we meet them, but sometimes we see the beauty when we get to know the real person. I can think of a lot of people who are plenty attractive on the outside and very ugly on the inside.. and that ugliness shows through. Beauty shows through when there is a beautiful person on the inside.Ugly people on the inside do get treated different.ly because they allow themselves to be treated that way. IF you think you are unattractive then so will a lot of people.I have been called ugly plenty of times in my life and sometimes my attitude has matched.Try looking in the mirror and think about good things and things that bring you the most joy in life... then do the same with all the negatives in life and see how different you look. There is an energy that radiates from the inside that overrides our looks and often enhances them. G

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by YourSelf

\Then I've had long hair like a heavy metal freak... after I cut them the reactions changed.

But then you got people like me PREFER the rocker look,long hair,etc. So you may have thought women reacted better after you cut your hair,but then there are always those few that would have prefered you the other way! Like,i dont know if there are any American Idol fans in here,but a lot of people rip on Jason Castro's dreadlocks,but i LOVE them! And everyone said David Cook looked better after he cut his hair,but i loved it better before he cut it! So,i think beauty helps gain you attention,but there are still going to be people who disagree with the norm.

[Rockchick26]

Wow,i just had to post this; I was reading a book today called This Is Your Brain On Music...and there was a few pages on this very subject! Basically it said that better looking people DO have advantages in life. Let me type some of the stuff in here..."Good looking people tend to make more money,get better jobs and report that they are happier. Even apart from whether someone is considered attractive or not,his appearance affects how we relate to him."

This is so true!

[jaamkie]

Oh I have that book! read it back in like early december- what did you think of it? I finished it feeling a bit frustrated like I'd been teased with all of these interesting concepts but never really given enough in-depth discussion... felt like it was a trailer for his scholarly papers or something was thinking it'd be fun to hear Dawkin's & co's take on some of it, evolutionary reasons for music and rhythm and dancing and how culture has evolved from it...

[Brutha]

There are two kinds of beauty.
One is by cultural standards, which contain things like being thin or being thick in ancient times.

On the other hand there are factors like facial symmetry and similar more general standards. Symmetry correlates to factors like intelligence or health.

"Good looking people tend to make more money,get better jobs and report that they are happier. Even apart from whether someone is considered attractive or not,his appearance affects how we relate to him."

It is also the other way around. How we relate to him, affects his appearance.

In general your self image is a lot more important than your physical body.

There was an experiment a while ago. Children act school who got good grades good either gratulated on being intelligent or on being hard-working.
Those who were gratulated on being hard-working improved their marks while those who were gratulated on being intelligent didn't.

Obviously both intelligence and being hard-working are things that contribute to good grades.
The diffierence between the two is that most kids have much more control on being hard-working than whether they have intelligence.

Let say you have to girls with have the same qualities except one is ugly one and the other one one gorgeous.
Both get a job at the same company.
The gorgeous one thinks that she got the job because of her looks.
The other thinks that she got the job because she is hard-working (obviously her looks weren't the reason she got the job).
Who do you think is more productive in her job?

. I can't seem to get much of anywhere because I don't have self-confidence because hardly anyone took the time to make me feel like I have any self-worth.

That is an excuse. There are a million ways to develop self-confidence and much more effective ones than being beautiful.
Beating huge obstacles will give you much more confidence than people get by looking good.

[Akashic_Librarian]

Well I am fairly attractive and my life is markedly better than my less attractive peers...

Not really. I mean "beautiful" people like models and superstars obviously have better lives...

but...I don't think it should be seen as an excuse for mediocrity...

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Not really. I mean "beautiful" people like models and superstars obviously have better lives...

it depends how you define better. by western ideals that is probably true- and more so for women than men. however, in my definition of better it makes no difference

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by jaamkie

Oh I have that book! read it back in like early december- what did you think of it? I finished it feeling a bit frustrated like I'd been teased with all of these interesting concepts but never really given enough in-depth discussion... felt like it was a trailer for his scholarly papers or something was thinking it'd be fun to hear Dawkin's & co's take on some of it, evolutionary reasons for music and rhythm and dancing and how culture has evolved from it...

I'm only halfway through it...i think it has too much science talk for me,but parts of it are very interesting! Right now i'm at the part where they are talking about talent,if you are born with it or can anybody develop talent,and they're saying if you can get in 10,000 hours of anything,you will become an expert at it. I disagree. But this is off topic so i'll have to leave this one alone LOL

[Some Random Loser]

From what I've seen, people basically live in hell. They're miserable sacks of **** regardless of how sexy they are. I'm no different. However, there are plenty of exceptions. LoL hope that didn't come off too negative. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[funchy]

No. But people who go through life without confidence do seem to have more trouble than those who do feel confident. You don't have to be pretty to be confident. Confidence is just a choice to see yourself in a better light and to believe in yourself.

[ssandra]

Unfortunately it has been shown in research (if i find the link, i will post it) that people with symetric faces (pretty people) have better chances on job interviews, are more easily liked etc.

That doesn´t mean anything more than that they have an advantage. they will still have to proof themselves.

In that sense, yes pretty people have an easier life maybe.

It is not fair, it is not easy, but it doesn´t change anything to the reality. Pretty people will have to work less hard on making a good first impression.

on the bright side... as a less pretty person you will have better chances of being taken seriously, having people listen to you for your ideas. You have the chance to make people like you for YOU not for your face!

[Diandra25]

that is not true.

ive come across with very beautiful people who feel miserable.And with not so attracttive ones who are completely happy about their lifes.

It is a matter of skills,of knowing what to do with what each one knows and have best.

for instance im currently trying to improve my life.No one knows really what i feel inside,and many times i just hide...for others dont worry about me.

Im introverted and i like to keep things to myself.I can be suffering a lot,still one who would look at me,might have the impression im at peace and always seem a "perfect " person.

See?

You have to love yourself first as you are,and just then...improving slowly in the areas of life you want.

Im considered a beautiful person,and im not that happy or with better life than others.

Please dont generalise and dont listen to preconceptuous views of live.

[joelr]

Doesn't mean attractive people are happier but I remember seeing a study done on the Learning Channel with groups of 2 people - one average/frumpy and one who had that "model" look. They did all sorts of different stuff like job interviews etc.. The attractive one had less credentials but in all cases was treated better, offered better positions and more respect.
People also often seem to subconsciously express jealousy as unusually handsome men and women are called pretty boys or bimbos.
I remember working at a music store once and a large but lean, muscular man came in. After he left some men had the opinion he was either stupid or had a small penis. They actually seemed mad?
There was also a man employed there who looked like the guy who did Calvin Klien ads in the 90's. Since being teenagers it seemed like EVERYONE wanted to be friendly with him, have him in their band or be in his social circle. Whenever he was around it was like Moses just walked into the store. It was interesting that not just women reacted that way. Everyone wanted to help this guy out. He did end up with a big time record deal (RCA) and toured with a super-famous band.