20 and never been in a relationship...

[TheVaderJam]

Hey people

How do i start? Well, i have never been in a relationship with a girl, never kissed a girl, never had sex... or anything that comes with that. And as of the past year or so, im starting to really doubt myself in that area, and its starting to get me depressed and making me really negative about life.

Is it natural that im starting to doubt myself? Im quite a nervous and worrying person anyways, but i really starting to worry that the reason im like this is because i might be gay or so, but i dont want to be.

Like for example, i have been bumping into this girl quite a lot and we started having a laugh and so, found out a few things that we both share in common and she also said she would take me out one day etc. And i gotta admit she is the total opposite of me, outgoing, perky, mad, social and all that. And the other week on MSN (because i could not do it to her face) told her i quite liked her, but now, im totally doubting myself if i actually DO like her or its just my head playing games with me. And like today, i see her and i dunno what to think now or what im REALLY feeling, im totally confused about what is real and what is not...

So i dunno, im eather really messed up or its the lack of experience that is making me all confused, because i dont know what is what. Ah i dunno, im just totally confused, im worrying too much...

Sorry if nothing makes sense...

TVJ

[Spartan]

I think you want to like her, but you don't really. There's no use forcing an attraction, you just have to be patient until you do find someone that you're genuinely attracted to.

And just because you aren't attracted to one girl, that doesn't mean you're gay, unless you're attracted to guys?

[Rockchick26]

I went through the same thing,only i was much older than you. I was about 27 before i dated anyone. And at first,although i thought i liked him,i was so nervous and freaked out that i got a stomach ache every time i hung out with him. It was only because i was inexerienced and scared. That's all your problem is,i'm sure. I think it would be best if you guys take things slow,and if she knows that you have never dated anyone before. But all these awkward feelings will go away after a few weeks,once you get past the first few times you guys get physically intimate a little. Good luck!

[Basu]

I'm in the same position as you...never been in a relationship. I've also never quite fallen in love. Now I know a lot of women and have women friends, but I've never really loved any of them. I feel quite lonely sometimes and it hurts, especially when I see other guys with their girlfriends, but I'm gradually coming to realize that there seems to be something of a reason: I'm at a point in life where I need to devote a lot of time to building myself intellectually. Though being in a relationship would make me happy, I've realized that my intellectual development is more important (and yes I am very happy when I'm actively pursuing it). Is there something similar in your life at the moment?

[Cran]

Relax. ust relax. I was.. let me think... 23 or 24 when I started my first relationship (with kissing and such *g*). My partner was two years older than me and had never dated before, too, and I didn't think "Uh, what a jerk he musst be if he never dated etc.!"

I believe that your feelings about this girl are just normal for this time... you're attracted, have perhaps some butterflies in your stomach etc. Many, many people feel like that! Even if they've dated before.

Continue to see her, don't get your hopes to high - not every nice girl turns out to be THAT girl, but can be a good friend, too! Have fun together, and you'll be able to sort your (and her) feelings out in time.

[YourSelf]

Yeah, man. I agree with what was said above. Plus, if you were really gay you would have "realized" it much earlier; and if you do think you are gay but don't like to be you can change it (if you want to).

[evelynlim]

Hello TVJ,

I think you are worrying too much. Just be yourself. Have fun being friends. Then see how things develop.

There's nothing wrong in not being in a relationship at 20. I know many single friends in their 40s and 50s, never had sex, hardly ever dated and happy!! They are very normal people. They never met the right person that's all. But they found other ways to make their lives a purposeful and fulfilled one. The important thing is to be Happy in whatever situation or age you are at.

Evelyn

[PianoManGidley]

Originally Posted by YourSelf

...and if you do think you are gay but don't like to be you can change it (if you want to).

Really now? Because I tried for 8 years to force myself to be straight, and it never took. I tried convincing myself that I liked girls instead of guys, or that I might even be bisexual. I tried religion. I tried counseling. Nothing worked. And I finally realized that I shouldn't be ashamed to be gay--that if I'm gay, it's not a bad thing...and that I shouldn't HAVE to try to change, that I shouldn't have to try to be someone or something that I'm not just because of societal pressures.

Furthermore, from what I understand, the American Psychological Association takes the professional stance that sexual orientation CANNOT be changed, and any attempts to do so are only destructive in nature, and based on long-standing and archaic societal and religious prejudices. You don't get to choose to whom you feel sexually or emotionally attracted. You don't choose who gives you a boner and who doesn't--it just happens. If you COULD choose, then adultery wouldn't be a problem, because everyone could just consciously choose to only feel sexually attracted to their spouse, switching everyone else in the world to the binary "off" position in regards to sexual attraction, which would eliminate the temptation to commit adultery.

But VaderJam: If you're gay, don't sweat it too much--that doesn't make you a bad person. If you're straight, don't sweat it too much--not having been in a relationship yet doesn't make you a bad person, either. Just because you haven't been in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex yet doesn't necessarily mean that you're gay. The ONLY way to tell what your sexual orientation is is to throw away all stereotypes and preconceived notions that the world holds about sexual orientation and answer one simple question: Do you like dick, snatch, both, or neither? Answer yourself honestly, and you'll find out if you're gay, straight, bi, or asexual. None of the results is better or worse than another, just like having green-colored eyes is no better or worse than having blue-colored eyes. It's just idiots that make a big deal out of it and try to make you feel like less of a human being just for being different than them, and you can ignore them.

[Joukai]

You may not realize it, but this problem of yours is downright AWESOME.

You have realized you have a "problem", that your relationships don't meet the standards you want for your life. This is VERY GOOD. Why? Because now you can make a decision.

You can make the decision to take control of your life and your relationships. Sure, it is not easy. But if you make the choice to do so, somewhere along the road, you'll look back and be so happy words won't be enough to describe it.

It's up to you - the ball is in your court.

Good luck, mate!

[YourSelf]

Well, PianoManGidley, I personally have nothing against gays and I believe those who wish to be should freely do so.

However, there's much controversy regarding its' actual scientific explanation and change. I believe that people can change in any aspect, and I personally know at least 5 people who have changed from homosexuality to heterosexuality without doing any major therapies, religions, or so.
I don't know how they did, but from what I read I know for sure that the APA and similar institutional bodies are severely biased by political correctness. The APA itself listed homosexuality as a disease until a few decades ago, and suddenly they changed.... that's strange isn't it? I personally don't trust even the NIH for several reasons of personal experience...

I don't believe homosexuality is a disease, but I also believe sexual orientation is nothing fixed or predetermined - and it would be sad if people stayed attached to one just for the sake of political correctness.

Perhaps you didn't want to really change.

I know people who have changed, from homosexuality not to bisexuality but complete heterosexuality.

[PianoManGidley]

Originally Posted by YourSelf

I know people who have changed, from homosexuality not to bisexuality but complete heterosexuality.

But did they honestly and completely change? Are they just involving themselves in unfulfilling or only partially-fulfilling heterosexual relationships while still being secretly attracted to members of the same sex? Or did they actually change their orientation? Just because they may be putting themselves in straight relationships doesn't mean they're totally straight. Peer pressure is a helluva thing.

[The Cloud]

You and me both. The only thing wrong with you is that you think that there is something wrong with you, and you are letting a bunch of girls tell you that by not dating you. If you want to be happy, you have to stop letting others decide how you feel about yourself, and make your own decisions on who you are and what you should be. This won't help you find a girlfriend, it won't help you get into a relationship, but it will make you oh so much happier with your life without one.

[YourSelf]

Originally Posted by PianoManGidley

But did they honestly and completely change? Are they just involving themselves in unfulfilling or only partially-fulfilling heterosexual relationships while still being secretly attracted to members of the same sex? Or did they actually change their orientation? Just because they may be putting themselves in straight relationships doesn't mean they're totally straight. Peer pressure is a helluva thing.

As far as I know them yes. It was almost spontaneous.
For example, one of them was really gay and everybody knew it, even in the way he behaved and spoke. He even had relationships (both intimate and non) with men, but none of our friends ever did or said anything against him for that.
After some years he suddenly started talking to us about a girl, and they dated, and he was like all the time head over heels over her (Perhaps he became lesbian?)
And after that he never again dated men (I think they are still together).

I don't know the others very closely but they are in the circle of my acquaintances or my family's acquaintenceships.

I know for sure that they didn't undergo any therapy; it came naturally.

[PianoManGidley]

YourSelf--he could have just been bi the whole time and was only engaging in the homosexual aspect of his sexuality until he met that one girl...and maybe she was "the one" for him and so he hasn't dated anyone else, male nor female.

[YourSelf]

That's also a plausible explanation.

And that would mean that there might be numerous bisexual people who haven't discovered it yet (and believe to be either gay or straight), right?

(I mean this guy was 26 years old when he "changed", and the others were even older. How come has he never been attracted to any girl in all those years?)

[PianoManGidley]

Originally Posted by YourSelf

That's also a plausible explanation.

And that would mean that there might be numerous bisexual people who haven't discovered it yet (and believe to be either gay or straight), right?

(I mean this guy was 26 years old when he "changed", and the others were even older. How come has he never been attracted to any girl in all those years?)

There are societal pressures within the homosexual community as well, including prejudices and ideas about what is and what isn't true about sexual orientation...so it could be that, if he was indeed bisexual the whole time, he felt somewhat pressured by the gay community to stay gay once he came out.

[YourSelf]

That's right. That's also something people should become aware of

[andrew]

I would say it's your lack of experience and knowledge. A mechanic's car rarely breaks because he knows how to maintain it. When it does break, he knows what's wrong and fixes it. Why? Because he knows all about it. Would I know what was wrong with my car? No, I have no idea. Same thing here. If you don't know all about it, you wont be able to do anything about it.

So, you suck at women and dating. Most guys do, and they don't even know it. But you do, and don't want to. You have the upperhand, now do something about it.

I sucked at it so much myself, settling for anything I could get. I'm not going into details, but I know exactly how you feel. I was probably worse, in fact I had zero life, almost no friends in school.

Now? Well, I still haven't had a girlfriend (choice and the fact that I've been moving) But! I've had sex, and my game is very, very good. I am very good at attraction and seduction now, and have very good confidence and selfesteem. I've learned SO much about this topic than most men, and even women know. My friends come to me for advise (esp on sex), and I know exactly what to say. I've gotten really good at it, but only because I was SO BAD at it before. It forced me to learn, and then I got hooked.

This CAN be learned, and you CAN get better. You just need to learn and work on it.

I've been learning for about 3-4 years, and you won't ever stop. I've got the basics and my inner game down fairly well, and am moving on to specifics; phone sex refinements, oral sex techniques, tantra, multiple orgasms, orgasms without physical stimulation, etc etc. It's all steps. Now that I can attract and have the opportunity to be with them, I'm learning how to give them as much pleasure and happiness as possible. Then once I get into a relationship, I go from there.

One step at a time. Just take the first step, and the rest will follow. Or assume that learning to be better and who you are now is who they should like you for, and enjoy being how you are now. It's your choice.

[DayInTheLife]

Vaderjam,

Your situation is common; it seems rare because young men lie about their experiences. I was even older than you, so don't worry about it. I believe it is your inexperience that is psyching you out. Once I got involved with my first girlfriend, my confidence shot through the roof because I quickly became experienced romantically and sexually, and found I had a knack for both.

And about that girl: you won't know if you like her until you date her. Just ask if she wants to go for coffee and don't get attached to any particular outcome. See what happens; don't try to get her to like you, just learn about her and tell her about yourself. Focus on things you like, not don't like. And listen to her; figure out what she values.

Learn to stop saying self-deprecating things in your head. When you think a negative thought about yourself ("Oh I am so awkward"), remember it's just a habitual thought, and toss it. Words are immensely powerful; they mold your self-image, which is probably ailing right now.

Just don't worry about outcomes, see where it goes.

[TheVaderJam]

Sorry for the late reply.

And thanks to everyone for all the reply's, really made me think and see things different

After reading DITL post, i thought about it and i asked if she wanted to go out to watch a film and have something to eat, and she said yes . So ill see how that goes and what comes of it, that way, nothing is lost

[Fullcrum]

Awesome vader, just remember to keep an abundance mindset and realize that there are always more women out there. You are exploring and choosing what people suit you. Get those experiences man! Everyone starts out a novice.

[DayInTheLife]

Originally Posted by TheVaderJam

Sorry for the late reply.

And thanks to everyone for all the reply's, really made me think and see things different

After reading DITL post, i thought about it and i asked if she wanted to go out to watch a film and have something to eat, and she said yes . So ill see how that goes and what comes of it, that way, nothing is lost

Excellent!

[Ak47]

i can tell you a secret...

tell teh women you're a virgin! not to be crude, but seriously this will work to some extent. women seem to have this idea that once men have had sex they've been corrupted (which is undoubtedly more or less true)... if they think (or know) you're a virgin... your odds of success are much, much higher.

[Parthon]

I have to back AK47 up on that one.

I'm 28 and haven't been in a relationship since grade 5, so I'm still a virgin. :P Most of my friends know or at least suspect greatly, but none of them find it odd. The only person who makes a big deal out of it is a sex nut where everything is about getting some, and quite frankly, I think that's an appalling way to live. More so, two women told me that they think it's sweet that I am waiting for The One and not just going out and getting laid at the first opportunity.

The strange thing though is I'm really mature and responsible, so much so that my friends remark about it, and it has nothing to do with being in a relationship. I would call myself sexually inexperienced for sure, but I can have deep friendships with women, live powerfully in my life and get on doing what I want to do with it.

And thanks evelynlim. I thought I was weird, but if there are people who are 50, still virgins and happily living a productive life, then I can too. It's very inspiring.

Oh, and watch the 40 Year Old Virgin. It reveals lots of the social connotations around sex and the impact it has on people, probably by accident though. It really shows there's nothing wrong with not having sex though, contrary to much of the American culture.