this is what happens when you don't listen.

[Faye]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Likewise



I don't like making people angry either, but I know it can't always be avoided - just as I can't always put a lid on my own anger.

Bad tempers may appear to be the norm, but they are not in fact normal. A bad temper is just an excuse that someone uses to avoid taking responsibility for his (or her) feelings. It's taking an emotional dump on your partner or friend and then leaving them to sort out the crap. But sorting out the crap is your own responsibility, not theirs.

It is also your own responsibility to stand up against being dumped on. If you don't do that, you are basically telling everyone that it is just fine to crap on you - so that is exactly what they will do.

Standing up for yourself makes things better, not worse.

hello, JimOfferman!

i guess i have always looked at it like .. if it makes him feel better then i should inwardly handle it or deal with it or whatever. i wish that he would do as you say and take control of himself in that manner, but at the same time i would not want him to fail to express his true feelings to me. but you know -- i know there are better ways of doing that. gentler ways. sometimes it seems like there is no brain -- just a huge flame burning between his ears, and during that span of time, he has to hurt everything that he comes in contact with. i wish that i could help it not to be like that.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Faye

hello, JimOfferman!

i guess i have always looked at it like .. if it makes him feel better then i should inwardly handle it or deal with it or whatever. i wish that he would do as you say and take control of himself in that manner, but at the same time i would not want him to fail to express his true feelings to me. but you know -- i know there are better ways of doing that. gentler ways. sometimes it seems like there is no brain -- just a huge flame burning between his ears, and during that span of time, he has to hurt everything that he comes in contact with. i wish that i could help it not to be like that.

Stop feeding the flame then. You validate this recurring need of him to hurt everything he comes in contact with by allowing him to do so. You are part of the circle. To break the circle, all you need to do is step out.

Next time his flame comes out, kindly tell me that you cannot discuss any issue while he is in that state and that you will be happy to talk about what is bothering him once he has calmed down. I suggest that you also leave the room after that, to give him a chance to cool. Be true to your word and discuss the issue once his flame has worn out.

(Another thing that works well for me is not raising my voice when someone tries to argue by raising theirs - this subtly forces the other to talk through the issue at hand, rather than turn the discussion into a shouting match)

Good luck!

[Faye]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Stop feeding the flame then. You validate this recurring need of him to hurt everything he comes in contact with by allowing him to do so. You are part of the circle. To break the circle, all you need to do is step out.

Next time his flame comes out, kindly tell me that you cannot discuss any issue while he is in that state and that you will be happy to talk about what is bothering him once he has calmed down. I suggest that you also leave the room after that, to give him a chance to cool. Be true to your word and discuss the issue once his flame has worn out.

(Another thing that works well for me is not raising my voice when someone tries to argue by raising theirs - this subtly forces the other to talk through the issue at hand, rather than turn the discussion into a shouting match)

Good luck!

dear, JimOfferman.. thank you for replying to me again..

thankfully i have no problems with not raising my voice. it's not really something that i am compelled to do, otherwise i would be in a lot of trouble. on the contrary, i am very apologetic. i wish that i could say your advice would work in this particular case. if i were to leave the room or tell him please not to raise his voice-- if i were to do that, i already know what would happen. i swear i am not being defeatist or refusing to help myself. i am in a very bad place and i have to do something. thank you for advice on the temper thing. if things were normal then i know exactly how valuable that would be, but my wishing that i could be helpful really is just wishful thinking. i feed the flame by existing.

i dearly apologise if that is frustrating or if i am worrisome after putting thought into your replies. i really am not saying that it's useless. it's not at all. it's just .. harder than that. not harder as in i do not have the willpower -- harder as in .. it will not work how you think.

thank you again very much, JimOfferman, and for the goodluck. i need that so much.

[Faye]

Originally Posted by Yellow

Dear Faye,
I can relate to you about not liking confrontation and taking his help for making decisions and all.

I see that you are a veryyy understanding person. This thread proves it. You are trying to see his view because you believe you can change your perspective and a lot of times, all you need is a different perspective to solve problems. This is true a lot of times but not all. Sometimes, it's just not about solving problems. Emotions aren't just those things we learned and the way we grew up. They are an essential part of who you are.

The reason why I can relate to you is because I am very similar to you when it comes to understanding people. I will feel bad for yelling at someone if they gave me a reason that makes sense about why they did something EVEN if I know that what they did could have been avoided. I let it be. It's like the understanding level is so very high that I forget about my needs. This is when it sucks the most.

Lately, I have been getting very angry at myself for doing that. Uberinquisitive's question about loving yourself enough really spoke to me because that is really what my problem is. I do not have to understand people as much as I try to. Those people need to understand my view if they care about me. And you know what? I feel selfish thinking that. I know that I am not doing anything wrong but I feel selfish if I know I have the capability to understand their view and I still decide not to. Now, I do end up in more confrontations and I make other people see my views.

Anyways, point of this post is not to rant about myself. I really would like you to see that extremely understanding part of yourself and see how that might be working against you. It almost feels like you/me are better than other people and above it all which is an awesome feeling (I am not saying we are better :P) But we still haven't (at least I haven't) reached Enlightenment to really be able to give myself to other people and not let their lack of ability make me put myself second.

{{{{Yellow}}}}! hello and nice to meet you. i have done so good with keeping my replies in order, so i am sorry if it seemed like i overlooked your post. let me assure you that the neglect was not due to any shortcomings of yours. thank you so much for this thoughtfulness, and it is interesting to know that i may have a kindred spirit in the world. i hope yellow is your favourite colour or song and not some subtle self-namecalling! i think it's a very pretty colour.

i'm sorry that you've been angry at yourself lately over those things. i know how frustrating it can be and how selfish it can make you feel. it is really heartening to me that you were able to start pushing yourself forward and standing up for yourself. is it as bad as you imagined that it would be? lots of second-guessing?

[Vasilisa]

Faye, I'll send you a private message tonight after work.

[Faye]

Originally Posted by Vasilisa

Faye, I'll send you a private message tonight after work.

strong Vasilisa,

if you are comfortable with that, i would like that very much -- but only if you are. thank you so much for taking the time to care at all.

~faye

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Faye

thankfully i have no problems with not raising my voice. it's not really something that i am compelled to do, otherwise i would be in a lot of trouble. on the contrary, i am very apologetic. i wish that i could say your advice would work in this particular case. if i were to leave the room or tell him please not to raise his voice-- if i were to do that, i already know what would happen. i swear i am not being defeatist or refusing to help myself. i am in a very bad place and i have to do something. thank you for advice on the temper thing. if things were normal then i know exactly how valuable that would be, but my wishing that i could be helpful really is just wishful thinking.

I am happy that you at least recognize that you have to do something. You and only you are in control of what goes on in your life. Everything that happens to you (save, maybe, freak acts of nature) happens because you allow it to happen. Herein lies your responsibility and power.

i feed the flame by existing.

That is not true. The flame feeds on your existence, because you allow it - but if you remove yourself from the spark, the flame will die.

i dearly apologise if that is frustrating or if i am worrisome after putting thought into your replies.

No need to apologize - I, like most here, offer my thoughts for free, but also without guarantee or expectations. In the end, it is (here we go again) your responsibility to life your life as best you can - not mine. All I can do is offer some suggestions that may help you.

it's just .. harder than that. not harder as in i do not have the willpower -- harder as in .. it will not work how you think.

Yes, taking full responsibility for your life is hard. Very hard, in fact. I believe that is the number one reason why so many among us refuse to do so.

However, as a former responsibility avoiding drone, I can tell you this: taking full responsibility also leads to a life that is infinitely more gratifying than just being along for the ride.

It is your choice.

[Faye]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

I am happy that you at least recognize that you have to do something. You and only you are in control of what goes on in your life. Everything that happens to you (save, maybe, freak acts of nature) happens because you allow it to happen. Herein lies your responsibility and power.



That is not true. The flame feeds on your existence, because you allow it - but if you remove yourself from the spark, the flame will die.



No need to apologize - I, like most here, offer my thoughts for free, but also without guarantee or expectations. In the end, it is (here we go again) your responsibility to life your life as best you can - not mine. All I can do is offer some suggestions that may help you.



Yes, taking full responsibility for your life is hard. Very hard, in fact. I believe that is the number one reason why so many among us refuse to do so.

However, as a former responsibility avoiding drone, I can tell you this: taking full responsibility also leads to a life that is infinitely more gratifying than just being along for the ride.

It is your choice.

Jim Offerman,

at risk of sounding really weird, i sat here for a long while and stared at the very last four words of your post for quite a while until my eyes strayed down to your music link. so then i clicked on it and went there and listened to the very top song.

it feels like the exact opposite of that happened to me. i woke up one day and everything had changed, but it was me. and it was not good. i know that i can not simply wait to wake up and for everything to change back or change for the better. if i want to have that waking moment like in that song and for everything to be a wonderful adventure .. well, it won't just happen on its own.

i know. saying it is one thing, doing it is another. people always say they want to do things and they don't follow through. if i don't follow through, if i don't make it better, i am going to end up some dead-eyed, hollow husk of a brainless thing that can not even rightfully be called a woman.

i wish that i could scream on the outside the way that i am on the inside. you're right, this isn't even really about the palygomy or whatever. it was a trigger to this line of thinking that i am having right now and it brought me here. maybe it really is just an excuse.

it's really about me

there are so many things i want to do and to be. he says no. i have always accepted that as fact and allowed it to be this way. no means no. but i am allowing for no to mean no. maybe he can say no and i can say yes. it won't work between us like that, i know that it won't. i am really terrified the more i think about it, because i don't know where i can go. i am not in a good position and the more i think about this the more sick i am. i don't even want to be touched for fear of all of these thoughts being wiped away by some false haze of care that maybe really isn't even there.

anyway, i know i am spewing this all over the place and talking so much. i am really distressed more and more, but i have to just do what i have to do for me. hurting everyone and everything in the process is inevitable

[robc]

Originally Posted by Faye

hello again, Rob! thank you again for keeping up with me. i can see that this will not be easy at all, but i am going to try. i have a really bad feeling about this, but what have i got to lose? i am not good at playing games, though, and it makes me feel a bit sick. then again, so does this whole situation.

wish me luck.

We're all pulling for you!!!
Good people deserve good things, you're a good person, you need to believe you deserve good things, the best things in life! If you want the best person in your life to share a relationship with, be the best for yourself first, set high standards for yourself. If your partner wants to keep you and keep up with you, he'll do what he has to do to keep you and that means dropping his polyamorous ways.

Again... GOOD LUCK!!!

[JimOfferman]

Dear Faye,

Thanks for listening to my music. I'm sorry to hear that your 'waking round in the new me' wasn't quite the pleasurable experience I envisioned when I wrote that song (How Can It Be). Perhaps what you are feeling right now is more akin to The Abyss:

I keep on falling into the abyss
And I've been crashing down, down, down
I can't remember how long
But I believe, some day I'll touch the ground

I wrote that late 2003, when my life was coming apart at the seams - I was jobless, fast heading for bankruptcy and facing and ever bigger rift between me and my (then) circle of friends. Not a fun period...

I still carry a burden from that time, but it grows lighter every year and I emerged stronger, better and happier than I was before.

Growth is not without pain, unfortunately, and what you are experiencing now are the very first signs of growth - the intense displeasure with your current situation and a growing desire to make a change.

Feel free to vent here whenever you need to, ask for help, etc. The road is hard and trying, but we'll all be here to help you every step of the way.

Once again: good luck!

love,
Jim.

[Faye]

Originally Posted by robc

We're all pulling for you!!!
Good people deserve good things, you're a good person, you need to believe you deserve good things, the best things in life! If you want the best person in your life to share a relationship with, be the best for yourself first, set high standards for yourself. If your partner wants to keep you and keep up with you, he'll do what he has to do to keep you and that means dropping his polyamorous ways.

Again... GOOD LUCK!!!

this is my deep breath before the plunge. i work tonight and then i will not be online again to read everything for many days. i am trying my best to soak it all up, because i am about to have to face many things.

words are as powerful as you allow them to be. you don't know how much it means to me.

thanks for the support, Rob, because it really does mean something.

~faye

[Faye]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Dear Faye,

Thanks for listening to my music. I'm sorry to hear that your 'waking round in the new me' wasn't quite the pleasurable experience I envisioned when I wrote that song (How Can It Be). Perhaps what you are feeling right now is more akin to The Abyss:



I wrote that late 2003, when my life was coming apart at the seams - I was jobless, fast heading for bankruptcy and facing and ever bigger rift between me and my (then) circle of friends. Not a fun period...

I still carry a burden from that time, but it grows lighter every year and I emerged stronger, better and happier than I was before.

Growth is not without pain, unfortunately, and what you are experiencing now are the very first signs of growth - the intense displeasure with your current situation and a growing desire to make a change.

Feel free to vent here whenever you need to, ask for help, etc. The road is hard and trying, but we'll all be here to help you every step of the way.

Once again: good luck!

love,
Jim.

JimOfferman,

no need to thank me for listening to your music. it is exactly what i need to hear right at this moment. it is very soothing and uplifting to me, and now my favourites are like superman and hold onto your dreams (although it's not very easy picking favourites with all these directions).

i hope that you will never stop making your music. it's powerful and heartfelt, and i can hear how much you love it. you have a clear voice and music that moves forward -- that makes me feel like i am moving forward. it's like fuel. not gasoline, though. people are too angry about that. it's more like the sun helping things to grow.

anyway, i know i talk a lot, but i am saying this because i hope that you will never ever stop. there are so many emotional ups and downs to being an artist, and i am grateful that your positivity and hope shines through even the art itself.

~faye~

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Faye

JimOfferman,

no need to thank me for listening to your music. it is exactly what i need to hear right at this moment. it is very soothing and uplifting to me, and now my favourites are like superman and hold onto your dreams (although it's not very easy picking favourites with all these directions).

i hope that you will never stop making your music. it's powerful and heartfelt, and i can hear how much you love it. you have a clear voice and music that moves forward -- that makes me feel like i am moving forward. it's like fuel. not gasoline, though. people are too angry about that. it's more like the sun helping things to grow.

anyway, i know i talk a lot, but i am saying this because i hope that you will never ever stop. there are so many emotional ups and downs to being an artist, and i am grateful that your positivity and hope shines through even the art itself.

~faye~

Dear Faye,

That's just beautiful - thank you so much!
Rest assured, I will never stop making music

love,
Jim.

ps: I hope you don't mind that I posted a quote from you on my blog - as a treasured reminder

[danijelg]

Hi Faye,

I have just read through all the posts in this thread and I would like to share my sympathy and some of my thoughts with you. About a year ago I have realized a great change emerging in me. Similarly to your case it wasn't at all pleasurable at the time and it brought me to the edge of depression and anxiety.

As Jim said - going through a personal change is very hard - but now, a year later, I see it as a blessing, because my eyes are open for many things in my life that were "wrong". This experience allowed me to realize that I must take full responsibility for my actions and that there were many things I wasn't satisfied with, yet systematically ignoring because it's easier to.

This is especially important when it comes to relationships. Many times in these forums it has been said that relationships, even the "bad" ones, are great opportunities for growth and I couldn't agree more. By learning to love ourselves, respect our needs and take responsibility, we gain a whole new perspective on our relationships. We must keep in mind that we represent 50% of our relationship - and that's a lot.

Believe me I have been amazed more than once with the effect of simply a different approach in communication. You say you know how he would respond to certain things you'd say to him, but in fact you don't. It's only a presumption. The only thing you can do is try and see what happens - whatever the result, you'll have a little more information about weather this partner suits you or not. The key is open communication and being aware of the information you receive.

Please remember that I am not in your shoes and only you have the power to lead your life to where you want it to go, but I hope I can help a bit by sharing this with you.

Best of luck, Danijel

[Faye]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Dear Faye,

That's just beautiful - thank you so much!
Rest assured, I will never stop making music

love,
Jim.

ps: I hope you don't mind that I posted a quote from you on my blog - as a treasured reminder

awww, i don't mind at all, haha. i've been quoted. how fancy!

[Faye]

Originally Posted by danijelg

Hi Faye,

I have just read through all the posts in this thread and I would like to share my sympathy and some of my thoughts with you. About a year ago I have realized a great change emerging in me. Similarly to your case it wasn't at all pleasurable at the time and it brought me to the edge of depression and anxiety.

As Jim said - going through a personal change is very hard - but now, a year later, I see it as a blessing, because my eyes are open for many things in my life that were "wrong". This experience allowed me to realize that I must take full responsibility for my actions and that there were many things I wasn't satisfied with, yet systematically ignoring because it's easier to.

This is especially important when it comes to relationships. Many times in these forums it has been said that relationships, even the "bad" ones, are great opportunities for growth and I couldn't agree more. By learning to love ourselves, respect our needs and take responsibility, we gain a whole new perspective on our relationships. We must keep in mind that we represent 50% of our relationship - and that's a lot.

Believe me I have been amazed more than once with the effect of simply a different approach in communication. You say you know how he would respond to certain things you'd say to him, but in fact you don't. It's only a presumption. The only thing you can do is try and see what happens - whatever the result, you'll have a little more information about weather this partner suits you or not. The key is open communication and being aware of the information you receive.

Please remember that I am not in your shoes and only you have the power to lead your life to where you want it to go, but I hope I can help a bit by sharing this with you.

Best of luck, Danijel

dear Danijel,

thank you for sharing those experiences of emotion with me. it means a lot to me that there are others out there who go through the same feelings or have gone through the same feelings.

please forgive the misunderstanding, though. when i said that i knew how he would react -- i meant it specifically toward what was suggested, because it was something that i had done before. so i meant that i had tried it and the reaction was not favourable. i do understand what you mean, though, and if i were so presumptuous then it would indeed be a grievous error.

but i've decided not to try and fix us anymore, regardless of my love. now i just need the courage to do what needs to be done and the more i think the more i seem to think my way out of it.

i am thinking that i will have to pack up my things while he is not there and leave when he is not there -- and tell him once i am safely away. this may sound very cruel but i am afraid it might be the only way i'll be able to follow through.


~faye

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Faye

but i've decided not to try and fix us anymore, regardless of my love. now i just need the courage to do what needs to be done and the more i think the more i seem to think my way out of it.

i am thinking that i will have to pack up my things while he is not there and leave when he is not there -- and tell him once i am safely away. this may sound very cruel but i am afraid it might be the only way i'll be able to follow through.

That's a very brave thing to do - good luck with that! We'll all be sending you courage and resolve

[C33]

Dear Faye,

I read through all the posts and I just want to give you a bit of support.

I can tell from what you wrote that you seem to be a very sensitive, kind and lovely person.

Unfortunately, the way you describe your boyfriend, he doesn't seem nice at all, but very manipulative, controlling, selfish, uncaring: not the type of person that deserves your love. Again, this is my perception from what you wrote and how you wrote.

Someone else would feel glad and blessed to have you to love him and care so much about his happiness. There is someone out there who will make you feel loved and valuable, just because you are you, who won't make demands on you to go to the gym or so on.

Some people brandish polyamoury as a "get out of jail" card, so they can get out of a relationship without caring about the person they are in a relationship with. It takes a very mature, responsible, loving person to make polyamoury work, so that everyone is happy.

I understand your wish to be "open" and cool about it, but if it is not in your nature to be with many different persons at the same time and feel o.k to have your boyfriend sleeping with other people, than there is a lot of misery at the end of the tunnel.

You can wrap your brain around things, and intellectually understand them, but it is hard to wrap your heart around something that is not part of your core values and beliefs.

Just my 2 cents.

[robc]

Originally Posted by Faye

this is my deep breath before the plunge. i work tonight and then i will not be online again to read everything for many days. i am trying my best to soak it all up, because i am about to have to face many things.

words are as powerful as you allow them to be. you don't know how much it means to me.

thanks for the support, Rob, because it really does mean something.

~faye

Even though this is just an online forum you really do come across as a warm, caring, loving & genuine person and your bf just screwed by tossing you aside for his "polyamorous" ways.

If one thing I can guarantee is this, once he loses you, he will be heart broken, call it karma, call it what goes around comes around but he will feel it, and it will be a mistake he regrets for a very long time in his life.

The saying "you never know what you have until you lose it" couldn't be more appropriate here. When he loses you he will know it and the freedom you gain because of this can only lead to bigger & better things for you.

You've finally gained some clarity & wisdom on a situation that's probably been bothering you for quite some time. I know from personal experience that it feels awesome when the answers to problems/questions that have been swimming around in your head for a long time finally come and when they do come, they bring alot of other answers along with them to (ie. where to go from here, new direction in life, a sense of real happiness, self-realization, tapping into your hidden potential, boosting your self-esteem, etc.)

YOU GO GIRL!!!

(then I follow up my cheesy saying with that snapping thing with my fingers along with waving my hand and shaking my head, this probably didn't get described properly but it was funny enough to describe it anyways)

[Faye]

Originally Posted by C33

Dear Faye,

I read through all the posts and I just want to give you a bit of support.

I can tell from what you wrote that you seem to be a very sensitive, kind and lovely person.

Unfortunately, the way you describe your boyfriend, he doesn't seem nice at all, but very manipulative, controlling, selfish, uncaring: not the type of person that deserves your love. Again, this is my perception from what you wrote and how you wrote.

Someone else would feel glad and blessed to have you to love him and care so much about his happiness. There is someone out there who will make you feel loved and valuable, just because you are you, who won't make demands on you to go to the gym or so on.

Some people brandish polyamoury as a "get out of jail" card, so they can get out of a relationship without caring about the person they are in a relationship with. It takes a very mature, responsible, loving person to make polyamoury work, so that everyone is happy.

I understand your wish to be "open" and cool about it, but if it is not in your nature to be with many different persons at the same time and feel o.k to have your boyfriend sleeping with other people, than there is a lot of misery at the end of the tunnel.

You can wrap your brain around things, and intellectually understand them, but it is hard to wrap your heart around something that is not part of your core values and beliefs.

Just my 2 cents.

dearest C33 ..

what you said in the very last paragraph really captures a lot of the dissonance i've had lately in myself. i can understand pretty much anything -- but understanding something doesn't mean agreeing with it or wanting it. the part where i get mixed up is that i do want him to be happy, however i do not want the thing that makes him happy -- except for the fact that it makes him happy. i want it for him but not for me. it is hard to describe how intense this confusion has always been inside of me without giving examples that will only make someone wonder if i have any self respect at all. its such a jumble that for a long time i have not known or tried to know where his happiness begins and mine ends. it has gotten so bad that sometimes i wonder if i am even a person anymore.

your post made me feel a bit better and i wanted you to know that. thank you for taking the time to offer some kind words of support to a far away stranger. it means more than you may know. please do take care.

~faye

[Faye]

Originally Posted by robc

Even though this is just an online forum you really do come across as a warm, caring, loving & genuine person and your bf just screwed by tossing you aside for his "polyamorous" ways.

If one thing I can guarantee is this, once he loses you, he will be heart broken, call it karma, call it what goes around comes around but he will feel it, and it will be a mistake he regrets for a very long time in his life.

The saying "you never know what you have until you lose it" couldn't be more appropriate here. When he loses you he will know it and the freedom you gain because of this can only lead to bigger & better things for you.

You've finally gained some clarity & wisdom on a situation that's probably been bothering you for quite some time. I know from personal experience that it feels awesome when the answers to problems/questions that have been swimming around in your head for a long time finally come and when they do come, they bring alot of other answers along with them to (ie. where to go from here, new direction in life, a sense of real happiness, self-realization, tapping into your hidden potential, boosting your self-esteem, etc.)

YOU GO GIRL!!!

(then I follow up my cheesy saying with that snapping thing with my fingers along with waving my hand and shaking my head, this probably didn't get described properly but it was funny enough to describe it anyways)

oh, Rob ..

i wish that that is how i felt. maybe that feeling will come when this is all done with, but it's barely begun. i said that i was going to leave when he was gone, but i decided that it was not an honourable thing to do. so instead today when he got home, i told him ..

'i don't think i want this anymore.'

what followed was worse than i ever imagined and i quickly learned that i made a bad choice in being 'honourable'. he is always so confident and sure on a daily basis, but what i saw today was some other creature entirely. at first he lashed out at me with insults -- i could not say anything at all. i tried to softly say things to make it better but he told me that i am no one now. just some girl. and then he was screaming about how he has nothing and how he is a loser and the girls always leave him. and then he was crying and saying he was going to die because there is nothing left. when he calmed down, he began to talk in this horribly soft, sarcasic way -- it was just so full of self-loathing. i had to stay quiet because when i tried to talk he would pulll my hair .. so i just listened

a feeling began to grow in me during this time that i have not experienced before. it took me a moment to recognise it. i was actually disgusted for a moment. i feel bad about feeling like that, but it happened.

he kept saying these very dark things and asked if i would really leave him, and now i feel very bad because i said no. i was scared. the truth is that i will leave, though, but i have to do it when he is not home. i will have to find someone to help me move my things

~faye

[Angela]

Wow, Faye, this guy is a doozy! I wish you lots of strength and courage in getting yourself free of this situation. And I hope that you remember you deserve to be in love with your own life, when this fellow tries to manipulate into believing you don't.

What an incredible challenge you have! Good for you! Please keep us posted; we are very concerned about your well-being.

Lots of love,
Angela

[robc]

Originally Posted by Faye

what followed was worse than i ever imagined and i quickly learned that i made a bad choice in being 'honourable'. he is always so confident and sure on a daily basis, but what i saw today was some other creature entirely. at first he lashed out at me with insults -- i could not say anything at all. i tried to softly say things to make it better but he told me that i am no one now. just some girl. and then he was screaming about how he has nothing and how he is a loser and the girls always leave him. and then he was crying and saying he was going to die because there is nothing left. when he calmed down, he began to talk in this horribly soft, sarcasic way -- it was just so full of self-loathing. i had to stay quiet because when i tried to talk he would pulll my hair .. so i just listened

a feeling began to grow in me during this time that i have not experienced before. it took me a moment to recognise it. i was actually disgusted for a moment. i feel bad about feeling like that, but it happened.

he kept saying these very dark things and asked if i would really leave him, and now i feel very bad because i said no. i was scared. the truth is that i will leave, though, but i have to do it when he is not home. i will have to find someone to help me move my things

~faye

Like I said in my previous post, he knows now what he is losing.
He took advantage of you so long and now that this power of his is gone, he is lashing out at everyone: you, him, the world, etc.

He won't die, although he says he will. It's a common reaction that people have when they lose something as valuable as a loving partner. The role he played in the relationship up until this point was to hurt you, keep you down, oppress & suppress you, make you feel that his treatment was good enough for you. You've wised up and see that you deserve better, you've told him so, and you told him in a way that he actually believed you this time - that was the difference and that's why he reacted the way he did. I'm sure before all of this he knew that you weren't comfortable with his "polyamorous" (love that word) ways but he still did it, he knew he had you, controlled you and could do anything he wanted to you & with you.

The power in this relationship has suddenly shifted from him to you.
You've taken back control of your life and you're deciding that you want better. He has lost his power over you and it feels like his world is crashing down on him. It's a very typical reaction.

The only thing he has left at his disposal is to try & make you feel guilty and bad for him. He will tell you that he loves you, he was sorry for what he's done, he will also tell you that he will change his ways. He'll then blame you for what has happened, you "allowed" him to do these things to you. He will also play the self-esteem card and say that no one will ever love him like you did, and that he won't be able to find anyone else and that he can't live without you. That feeling of disgust you mentioned is normal, think about it this way: he had full control of this relationship, he was very powerful, in charge, in command, although what he was doing wasn't very nice, being powerful & in command is an attractive quality and once he knew he could use that on you, he kept you under his spell. Once he lost his power, revealed his true nature which was no power, powerless, helpless, juvenile, petty, etc, he lost all of his charisma and it was revolting/disgusting for you to see that. You lost any respect you had for him.

Be careful of the guilt trip he may lay on you, it may work to keep you under his spell and continue his past ways.

I'm not telling you to stop having feelings for him - I would never tell anyone who they can or can't love, just realize that you need to start loving yourself properly and once you do that you can love this or your next partner a whole lot better and the reason being you will have respect for yourself and your partner: self-respect & mutual respect. You will also have gained your individuality back which is so powerful and important.

If this is someone you want to continue a relationship with, let him prove himself. Give him time & space away from you (because you need your time & space now also to determine what direction to take your life in, you're in charge now) to change his ways, to become a proper human being who can love himself & others and provide people with the proper respect, the kind of respect that nurtures someone else's self-esteem, not tear it down and take advantage of it. Don't provide him with any guarantees on the future of the relationship either. He is in control of his own actions & thoughts, don't feel bad for any stupids things he may say or do, it's all him now. You have control only over your own actions & thoughts (you always did, you're now exercising that control).

I'm not saying any of this will be easy.
No one said life would always be easy - on the contrary for some people life can be difficult for the most part. That isn't the important part though, so don't focus on that. The important thing to remember is that life, your life, is worth it. And if you want a better life, a life with less difficulty, make that life for yourself, don't expect anyone to do it for you. The potential for a great life is within you, the only person who can unlock that potential and make use of it is you - it was always you.

Sometimes we just need people in our life to offer a different perspective on our problems and help us look at things from another angle because we can get stuck looking at life with a specific set of glasses on.

I'm rooting for you Faye, let me know how it goes. Be strong, I know you can do it.

[kboleski]

OK.... EVERYONE else has written everything so completely and eloquently, SOOOOOOOOOOO, I am going to be more blunt. OK?
Stop making excuses. Deep in your gut you know the truth. You have to put yourself FIRST. You are not married to this guy and owe him NOTHING! It appears, just as everyone has stated, that he wants what he wants and your feelings are not really his concern. You are good friends. He cares for you in many ways. BUT, not in the utmost respecting ways. Please just face the facts. This is going to sound crazy, I know...just bear with this... When I am in a quandry, sometimes I ask myself "What would Dr. Phil say?" I am not a huge fan of his, BUT, he doesn't let you lie to yourself. He puts it right there where it is and I can tell you that he would say, "Listen to what you are telling me. You have your answer." Or, some such statement. Everyone else has basically told you the same thing. I don't have much time to be more thorough on this next part, but you can add between the lines. This usually takes a level of maturity to understand and achieve... Lovingly, respectfully and completely, put yourself first. Take a STAND for what you want now and forsee for the rest of your life. And, stand by it!! Period. That is not harsh either. Getting a backbone isn't a negative thing. It is a self respecting thing. Never settle for less. You don't give less. I can tell by your posts. Don't EVER accept less than respectful treatment from someone. They need to love you in all the right ways. He doesn't. It is obvious that he doesn't respect you in an utmost way because he is treating you, your feelings with disrespect so he can have what he wants. Don't confuse that with anything else. You can care for someone, but not enough to do the right thing by them. PLEASE just face and accept that, OK? Decide what you want out of life, how you want it, how you want to be treated, how you want to experience it, etc... and NEVER settle for anything less. You won't be happy if you do. And that is just how it is, like it or not.
Like it or not is kinda rude, but it is exactly what you need to face. Learning to see the truth for what it really is, is one of the most difficult things to do. Because we all lie to ourselves to feel better about things. Get rid of all the buts, peel it down to it's core and face it! OK? I am really writing this with much feeling in my heart because I have been there, I am there in some ways now, so know that rude or not, it is coming from a really caring place. I look forward to hearing how you face this and the decisions you make and hear how you are going to stand for you and noone else!!!

[kboleski]

After I sent the post, I went back to read the updates, and it looks like a huge thing happened. The fact that while he was in control he did things he knew you didn't like and hurt you, shows his true character. That usually doesn't change. Then his response when you took his power away, WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW, he has some problems that are too big for you. You have proven to have good character. You seem very normal (if there is such a thing) and well rounded in your own emotions, etc... Understand that if you stayed with him, your life would be hell. RUN!!! You should look for a mate with similar character, someone who is confident (in the real and right ways), who is motivated to be the best he can be (in a realistic way), who has the same vision of life and future, who wants the same things as you, who you feel you can enjoy doing almost anything with. And on and on.... This guy would suck out every last ounce of your dignity. He has too many problems for you. Like some of the other posters said, "Just because you love someone, doesn't mean you should or have to be with that person." Care for yourself enough to move on and forget about him. You deserve a much better life. My concern now is your safety. Really cover all of your bases there.

[Jamie]

Hi Faye, and welcome to the forum.

I've only read your first post, but it strikes me, from reading that, that he's not too concerned about your well being, in all this. If he was, surely from the onset, he would have made 100% sure that you we're completely ok and happy and willing to go ahead with this kind of relationship.

I'm reading very much that he's just in it, for what's in it for him, and that in your heart of hearts you're not at all happy with the whole situation. I think you need to take a good long look at yourself, what do YOU want?

Are you feeling like you have to settle for this situation? When it's not what you really want? Seems quite simple really, it either is, or it isn't, what you want. Am sorry if that's blunt, but that's how I see it, and sometimes, it is better to walk away. But that's always your decision.

[Faye]

Originally Posted by Angela

Wow, Faye, this guy is a doozy! I wish you lots of strength and courage in getting yourself free of this situation. And I hope that you remember you deserve to be in love with your own life, when this fellow tries to manipulate into believing you don't.

What an incredible challenge you have! Good for you! Please keep us posted; we are very concerned about your well-being.

Lots of love,
Angela

dear Angela,

i will definitely be okay and don't mean to make anyone worry. i know that everything will turn out all right as long as i do what i have to do. thank you for sending the positive thoughts in my direction. i'm using them as material for the shiny suit of armour that i'm making.

~faye

[Faye]

Originally Posted by robc

Like I said in my previous post, he knows now what he is losing.
He took advantage of you so long and now that this power of his is gone, he is lashing out at everyone: you, him, the world, etc.

He won't die, although he says he will. It's a common reaction that people have when they lose something as valuable as a loving partner. The role he played in the relationship up until this point was to hurt you, keep you down, oppress & suppress you, make you feel that his treatment was good enough for you. You've wised up and see that you deserve better, you've told him so, and you told him in a way that he actually believed you this time - that was the difference and that's why he reacted the way he did. I'm sure before all of this he knew that you weren't comfortable with his "polyamorous" (love that word) ways but he still did it, he knew he had you, controlled you and could do anything he wanted to you & with you.

The power in this relationship has suddenly shifted from him to you.
You've taken back control of your life and you're deciding that you want better. He has lost his power over you and it feels like his world is crashing down on him. It's a very typical reaction.

The only thing he has left at his disposal is to try & make you feel guilty and bad for him. He will tell you that he loves you, he was sorry for what he's done, he will also tell you that he will change his ways. He'll then blame you for what has happened, you "allowed" him to do these things to you. He will also play the self-esteem card and say that no one will ever love him like you did, and that he won't be able to find anyone else and that he can't live without you. That feeling of disgust you mentioned is normal, think about it this way: he had full control of this relationship, he was very powerful, in charge, in command, although what he was doing wasn't very nice, being powerful & in command is an attractive quality and once he knew he could use that on you, he kept you under his spell. Once he lost his power, revealed his true nature which was no power, powerless, helpless, juvenile, petty, etc, he lost all of his charisma and it was revolting/disgusting for you to see that. You lost any respect you had for him.

Be careful of the guilt trip he may lay on you, it may work to keep you under his spell and continue his past ways.

I'm not telling you to stop having feelings for him - I would never tell anyone who they can or can't love, just realize that you need to start loving yourself properly and once you do that you can love this or your next partner a whole lot better and the reason being you will have respect for yourself and your partner: self-respect & mutual respect. You will also have gained your individuality back which is so powerful and important.

If this is someone you want to continue a relationship with, let him prove himself. Give him time & space away from you (because you need your time & space now also to determine what direction to take your life in, you're in charge now) to change his ways, to become a proper human being who can love himself & others and provide people with the proper respect, the kind of respect that nurtures someone else's self-esteem, not tear it down and take advantage of it. Don't provide him with any guarantees on the future of the relationship either. He is in control of his own actions & thoughts, don't feel bad for any stupids things he may say or do, it's all him now. You have control only over your own actions & thoughts (you always did, you're now exercising that control).

I'm not saying any of this will be easy.
No one said life would always be easy - on the contrary for some people life can be difficult for the most part. That isn't the important part though, so don't focus on that. The important thing to remember is that life, your life, is worth it. And if you want a better life, a life with less difficulty, make that life for yourself, don't expect anyone to do it for you. The potential for a great life is within you, the only person who can unlock that potential and make use of it is you - it was always you.

Sometimes we just need people in our life to offer a different perspective on our problems and help us look at things from another angle because we can get stuck looking at life with a specific set of glasses on.

I'm rooting for you Faye, let me know how it goes. Be strong, I know you can do it.

{{{{{Rob}}}}}}}}

it's not unnerving that you described exactly what he would do; it is unnerving that he did exactly what you described down to the smallest of details -- and in that order, almost. never before have i felt like these things are on purpose, but now i have to wonder if it really is on purpose and which parts of his emotions are real -- or if it even matters that it was me. maybe he was never interested in me except that i will do what he says. i never thought about it before, but in the past, whenever complimenting me, it was always a compliment on how i am a good girl to him

no .. i don't really think it's that cut and dry, not really. i am just trying to fuel my resolve to do what i need to do. soorry not to write more but i don't have time tonight. i will share what happens in a few days. thank you for your words, as always.

~faye

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Faye

i am just trying to fuel my resolve to do what i need to do.

Good luck with that - I am confident you will find it soon!

[Gracie]

Originally Posted by Faye

i had to stay quiet because when i tried to talk he would pulll my hair .. so i just listened

Faye,

I am proud of you for beginning a spiritual journey and I think you are doing the right thing to pull away from a relationship that is no longer fulfilling, but I would like to address a more immediate issue...I am concerned about your personal safety.

In reading through this thread and it seems as if you have on more than one occasion felt afraid or threatened as a result of your former boyfriend's behavior. Now in the above quoted post you have indicated that he has been physical with you by pulling your hair. The Merck Medical Manual used by doctors to asses their patients has these aggressive psychological and physical behaviors listed as indicators of abuse:
Domestic Violence: Violence Against Women: Merck Manual Home Edition

I know you may not feel this applies to you, but please take the time to read through the above link for more information. I would also recommend reading a few articles on the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence website:
Safety Plan - National Coalition Against Domestic Violence

Preserving your physical and spiritual well being should be of equal importance. If you feel at all uncomfortable, leave now. People are far more important than things. You can always get your things later, with a trusted friend or officer, if necessary.

It is so easy to stay in situations that are unhealthy for us, because they are all we know. You have shown great courage and insight in the steps you have taken to find your own path to fulfillment thus far. Be proud of yourself. You deserve a life full of peace and happiness.

Please feel free to PM me if you need to talk.