The Ugly Duckling Effect. (How do I handle being pretty?)

[blueberry]

First of all, I feel so silly making this thread.

I was an ugly duckling as a kid. When I was in middle and high school, I had low self esteem because of silly issues like not being perfect and being cruelly judged for it by my peers. I was never noticed for my looks and when I was, 9/10, it was to be poked fun at. I wouldn't say I was ugly by any means. I just hadn't grown into myself yet and kids are harsh.

I ended up leaving high school and the way I socialized was VERY exclusive. I hung out with just a few choice people on a very regular basis because I felt safe with them. I got out into the world a little bit to learn here and there that I was attractive... I would get hit on, but I never really took it seriously to mean that I was attractive. I always felt like it was just simply because I was a girl; natures default sperm receptacle.

My relationships never really improved my self esteem so I grew up to be a little bit naive about handling myself in social situations where guys made advances on me. And for the last couple years, I've been even more antisocial because of a limiting relationship.

Fast forward to the present: I'm waking up to my true potential as a person now and I feel ready to go out and take on the world. I've always been very introverted and somewhat reclusive but now I'm in a place where I love to talk to talk to new people, strangers, and meet potential friends.
But when I go out into this world, it becomes apparent to me how I've been living in a sheltered bubble. I think because I grew up with low self esteem over my appearance, I never invested myself in my looks to represent who I was as a person. I went the quirky, introverted, intellectual route. When I meet new people I feel like I can talk to, I focus on communicating myself as a person. Yet, I get a lot of a weird responses. A lot of the time, males don't focus on what I have to say or what I potentially could have to say.

In one scenario, I get aggressively hit on by guys who have only one thing on their mind. It's so obnoxious and primal to me that I try to awkwardly diffuse the situation the best that I can without being rude. These are the guys I generally don't even want to talk to or get to know anyway.

But in the more important scenario, I meet guys I would like to get to know as people. Real conversations do in fact happen and there will be friend chemistry. The hard part is making it clear that it's just-friends chemistry to me. I have to take steps to clarify things right off the bat and it's difficult for me because I don't want to be awkward. It's awkward because this is a completely foreign situation to me!

Because of these social drawbacks, I leave feeling even more confused about my appearance. I've been told that I'm beautiful, but for some reason, I have trouble letting this make me feel good about myself. This doesn't surprise me because I think our society is sick in the ways we stereotype genders and worship appearance. I just haven't yet figured out how to appropriate all of this in my head. I'm sure other females here have gone through this in a more normal way. I would love to get your female perspectives on this social matter.

And for the guys... Your input is equally valid. What steps can I take to present myself in a clear and self expressive way without giving the wrong impression? And what is the best way to diffuse the wrong impression?

[Jamie]

Why silly blueberry?

Are you asking how best to make your feelings (either postive or negative) about a person known?

Actions speak louder than words, however, this may be too subtle for some people; so I guess, it depends on your audience? With some people, you can be quite subtle, and they'll get the message, with other's you'll need to be more direct.

For me personally, I really apprecieate just plain simple honesty, and I wish everyone could just be straight up honest with me, and say just what's on their mind. Esp. if a woman doesn't like me, or has no romantic inclinations towards me; I don't mind at all. Just be honest, direct, and polite.

Mind you, I guess there's a million reasons why women are not so inclined to do that with some guys, not least that he may go psyhco on her. So it may not be the best advice.

Jamie.

[blueberry]

I feel silly because in this perfect world in my head, I should be a perfect person who doesn't have to learn any of these silly life lessons!

Don't even try to touch that. I already know. I'm getting good at kicking that evil perfectionist inside of my head off my Mental Council but they keep trying to sneak back in. I'd be more harsh in disciplining that part of myself but I understand that they only feel that way because they need more love and acceptance.

I value honesty highly too. In fact, that's the only real way I know how to express myself. I've discovered being 100% authentic and honest is the way I want to live my life and I want to extend that courtesy to everybody I deal with. But I have a feeling that this may not be the best approach in more casual situations that other people may handle in a more subtle way - while still getting the message across. I feel very shy to flat out state my intentions about a person if my suspicions about their attraction are subtle cues that happen BENEATH the conversation. I feel like it would be rude to bring attention to it in a way that would make the other person feel awkward or rejected. And I don't mind being harmlessly flirted with if that's all that's really going on. I just want to respect my boundaries and not give any wrong impressions.

[PianoManGidley]

Maybe I'm just naive here, but why are you putting yourself in situations where the guys you meet are so shallow in the first place? Aren't there places where more mature, intellectual men are that you could try to befriend? If nothing else, you could become a fag hag and just hang out around gay men if you want to befriend men but make sure they don't just see you as a piece of meat.

[GoingPrimal]

Sup blueberry?

I'm sure that you are beautiful. What's important is that you don't equate much if any value of your being to you having "good looks". I completely agree that our society is sick in the way we judge and set distinctions of ourselves. We look for differences instead of focusing on how we are similar - after all, we are all humans.

Please, always feel good about yourself because of who you are and the good decisions you choose to make. This is so important.

One suggestion I have for you in terms of how to handle guys who you are interested in friend-wise but not sexually is to go out with some other physically attractive girls and see how they let guys know that they are not interested. This might work if you go out with some girls who aren't looking for attention all night.

With the group of guys who seem to be only after sex, use your body language. They may be too dimwitted to pick up on it, but fold your arms, cross your legs and point your feet and body away from them. You can still be nice on the surface but sub-communicate through your body language that you have no interest.

I've been sitting here thinking about what else you could do to demonstrate you're only interested in friendship, or not interested at all with the horny hunters. I can't really come up with anything useful. Maybe if I got more sleep last night I could think of something, or if I was a girl. At any rate, the more social you become, the more interactions you'll have with guys, and the better you'll be able to handle these situations. Practice makes perfect...

Best of luck kiddo.

[The Cloud]

As long as you're focusing on how guys are thinking about how you look, you are naturally going to steer things in that direction. Whether through body language, innuendo, or other more blatant means, you communicate what you are thinking about to the person you are conversing with. So as long as you are hung up on your looks, you are directing their attention toward that.

Of course, some guys just default to physical attributes, and that is something you're just going to have to deal with. I have a friend that has that problem, and her method is to basically make any guy that makes reference to her in a physical way feel very awkward by way of sarcastic nonchalantness. "Ok, uh, yeah, whatever." If it's sort of an innuendo that is clear in intent but not meaning, she will ask for clarification. This is a big ball buster, because most guys that make innuendo are doing so specifically to avoid being blatant. I'm not saying this is the perfect route, and I do believe that there are better ways of dealing with it, but that's my friend's method.

[blueberry]

Originally Posted by PianoManGidley

Maybe I'm just naive here, but why are you putting yourself in situations where the guys you meet are so shallow in the first place? Aren't there places where more mature, intellectual men are that you could try to befriend? If nothing else, you could become a fag hag and just hang out around gay men if you want to befriend men but make sure they don't just see you as a piece of meat.

I purposefully avoid putting myself in these situations, believe me! I try to gravitate only to people who I feel like I can actually talk to and I'm getting good at gaging my conversational compatibility with others.

A perfect example for the kinds of 100% unwanted attention I get happened last night. I went out to a diner to work on a project by myself. I asked to be seated in the corner of the restaurant alone at a booth and had my project materials spread out all around me. It was clear that I was very involved in my project and my books when all of a sudden, a man approached my table and before saying anything introductory, sat down and asked me what my name was. I was totally taken aback and I told him. He went on to begin talking to me flirtatiously and I had to interrupt him and tell him that I was trying to work so he would leave. I feel like I handled the situation the best way that I could. I was clear and upfront about it and got the results I desired.

I just feel really misunderstood and alienated on some level. It makes me feel uncomfortable that people get such a wrong impression about the kind of person I am because of the way I look. I understand that that's their problem and not mine. But I think the main issue is that I don't feel comfortable with my physical appearance. When I was younger, I gave up on being beautiful because I didn't feel like I was and I decided that it didn't have anything to do with who I was. After I "blossomed", I stayed in a relationship that ended up making me feel insecure about myself and I think I'm still recovering from those effects. It's weird. I'm just not sure how I should feel about all of this and when I try to work through it, I feel mentally dizzy.

Originally Posted by GoingPrimal

One suggestion I have for you in terms of how to handle guys who you are interested in friend-wise but not sexually is to go out with some other physically attractive girls and see how they let guys know that they are not interested. This might work if you go out with some girls who aren't looking for attention all night.

Thank you for this very practical advice. I've been wanting to make some girl friends now that I'm back out into the world but it just hasn't happened it. It's probably important to note that I've always been the kind of girl to hang out with the guys. Where I grew up, 99% of the girls I would come into contact with were really superficial and dramatic and I had a lot of trouble relating to them. I've been told that I come across as if I've had too many male influences and that's true. I think I'm out of touch with my femininity. I was raised in a household with 3 older brothers and my mom was too crazy to be a role model for me. So I ended up getting treated like one of the boys by my father and my siblings and I was discouraged from a lot of girly things. My family was also very strict about what I was and wasn't allowed to wear, as if certain parts of my body were shameful. I wasn't allowed to wear shorts of tank tops.

I don't know... I don't mean to ramble. You guys have given me some useful and practical advice so far. I guess as I've continued to discuss this issue with you though, some of the deeper aspects of it are starting to come out.

If I've been conditioned to deny my femininity, then what steps do you think I can take to integrate my goddess identity back into myself?

[Jamie]

I have simular issues, how to have friendships with women, and also to let them know that I'm not interested in taking it any further, without offending them. It's a tricky one, and it doens't feel appropriate to just spell it out.

[danas]

Hi blueberry
I can totally relate with this.(also with the ugly ducking story)
Recently Ive made it my mission to be as honest and clear as possible with myself and with the world and not vague as I used to be.
Basicly it means being willing to let go of things that block your energy. even if they flatter you.
Ive gotten into a lot of messes because of my vagueness. (including guys I wasnt interested in, flying across the world to see me with big expectations (happened 3 times- Im a slow learner),
But now Im so much clearer. both if Im interested and if Im not.
I just try to express what I feel as clearly as I can.
example: recently Ive been spending more time with a male friend of mine, hes very intelligent and fun to be with, but I could tell that he wanted more, so I told him how glad I was that we were just friends, then he actually told me that he was considering us having a romantic relationship, and I told him quite clearly to stop considering cause it aint gonna happen- doesnt feel right.
We stayed friends, but now i feel he is still trying to get me closer so Ive decided to take my distance.
I do have a few strong but completely aplotonic relationships with men though, so I know its possible.
I also used to attract alot of men that were only interested in sex.
That was definately due to my low self esteem. And I sending out mixed messages unconsiously.
Now I seem to attract men that want to have serious relationships with me- which is good cause that's what I want.
Basiclly I believe being clear with yourself will lead to clearer signals being sent out, and I think (for me at least) its important not just to "hint" polietly but to say things gently but very clearly.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by GoingPrimal

With the group of guys who seem to be only after sex, use your body language. They may be too dimwitted to pick up on it, but fold your arms, cross your legs and point your feet and body away from them. You can still be nice on the surface but sub-communicate through your body language that you have no interest.

lol I wish you were a woman so you could see how this would not work! In fact i posted about this a few months ago. Obnoxious,perverted men do not pick up on these clues! You can sit 10 feet away from them,with your arms crossed,talking to another guy,and they'll still try to get with you. I have major problems with this,i always attract the guys like this,that no matter how you try to show them you're not interested,they don't care,they keep trying. Some of them,online,add you on messenger without you asking,and then they dont take no for an answer and i ALWAYS have to block them.

and Blueberry,i go through this same thing...i grew up being picked on and i never thought i was good looking,but as an adult i KNOW there is nothing wrong with my looks (although i'm not perfect,but i'm cute and lovable) and i have the same situations where i feel like guys are just after me because i'm a girl and they're horny. And then,when i DO make friends with guys,just friends,who i usually tend to get feelings for,they turn out to be gay! Which leads me to think that men are either gay or desperate and after any woman they can get. Where is the middle ground here?! Where are the single,STRAIGHT men,who don't force themselves on women?

[GoingPrimal]

[QUOTE=Rockchick26;176571]lol I wish you were a woman so you could see how this would not work! In fact i posted about this a few months ago. Obnoxious,perverted men do not pick up on these clues! You can sit 10 feet away from them,with your arms crossed,talking to another guy,and they'll still try to get with you. I have major problems with this,i always attract the guys like this,that no matter how you try to show them you're not interested,they don't care,they keep trying. Some of them,online,add you on messenger without you asking,and then they dont take no for an answer and i ALWAYS have to block them.


yea, I know. us guys can be a dimwitted bunch, thats for certain. I dunno what else can be done tho - this isn't really a topic I let marinate in my mind.

I'll tell you that if you're a guy, you're hardwired to be attracted to women based on PHYSICAL TRAITS - indicators of good health for raising a baby - hip to waist ratio, healthy skin, hair and teeth, breast size and weight (though this can change from society to society, or even from guy to guy...) Sorry, but thats just how were programmed.

Now I certainly have no interest in a physically attractive girl who acts completely bitchy towards me. A girl's body may be an initial hook but her personality is the make-or-break factor for me.

blueberry, I don't think you want to be a bitch to guys.

I also think you want to be honest, but I'm just going to throw out that you can pull the "I have a boyfriend" card, or any other number of excuses.

I have a ton of galfriends who don't hang with many girls - find them too "catty". Maybe when you go out and socialize you could bring an intimidating guy friend of yours and have him act like your boyfriend...

I'll let this one marinate...

[Spartan]

So you're pretty? Big deal. Seriously, I doubt many people are thinking 'omg she's so pretty!' People have different ideas of pretty anyway, so not everyone would consider you pretty. I don't mean to sound harsh (I'm sure you're lovely), but don't delude yourself into thinking you're every mans dream.

Most single straight men want to find an attractive woman to be in a relationship with - deal with it. Most single straight women want to find an attractive male to be in a relationship with - I'll deal with that.

Consider yourself lucky that you have so many offers, some women don't get any. And guys rarely get so blatantly propositioned.

I think you are taking things too seriously. Just because someone shows a bit of interest in you, you won't break their heart by rejecting them straight. However, if you lead them on and let them get emotionally invested, then they could get hurt.

If you aren't interested in someone, act seriously, don't flirt and don't smile too much at them. If they continue to harass you, walk away, pretend to be married, or threaten to call the police.

[uberinquisitive]

I'm not sure what this thread is about exactly.

Men hit on women all the time. You don't have to pretty - in fact, I get hit on when I have really greasy hair and haven't washed my face, no make-up. My friends have similar experiences.

Again, why are you finding your identity outside yourself? Who cares if these guys hit on or don't hit on you? If you define yourself as "now I'm pretty that other people tell me I'm pretty," then you're missing the point. Especially if slimy guys are where you're getting your main validation!

Who cares about these guys? Just ignore them. Pretend they're invisible. Trust me...they'll be hitting on some other girl in 30 minutes and totally forget about your "rejection." Don't worry about them.

Worry about guys who seem attracted to you and give off a cool, comfy vibe (and a guy you also find attractive). These guys will strike up conversation about you that isn't pushy. You'll just "feel" different from these guys. They won't feel slimy.

[blueberry]

I don't have enough to time to take consideration in replying to all of the worthwhile replies atm but I'll add a few notes that just popped into my head while I was reading this.

to clarify, I didn't really know what this thread was about when I started it. I just knew that there was an area about myself that I felt like exploring so I started with the superficial investigation.

the truth is, while I have had a lot of awkward and undesirable dealings with the opposite sex over mixed messages, the social learning I need to do is realistic and manageable. that won't kill me.

I think the core issue is how I feel about my identity. I'm sorry for coming across like I was tooting my horn about how I look because that's not anything I consciously intended. but who knows. my human ego is a funny thing, especially when it's disturbed.

there's a lot of hurt and distorted perception locked up inside of me related to my gender and my appearance from the experiences I had growing up. maybe the issue isn't so much about me dealing with being what I am, but is really about the fact that I have all of these old beliefs and self concepts weighing me down and holding me back from just embodying my self, my body, and my life.

because that's what it always comes back to.... it's all in our heads after all. I started this thread mentioning my ideas about why I feel like I am this way but I focused it on being an external issue.

I began this thread thinking "I know I'm a strange person.... but the WORLD is wrong in how it perceives me."

but now I am realizing that... "the world is a strange place to navigate, but maybe I am wrong in the way I perceive myself......"