Deadbeat Dads?

[Amadeus]

I believe there is a disconnect between how the media and society in general portrays "deadbeat dads" and what is actually reality. The other week my soon to be ex-wife and I were watching ABC's Extreme Makeover about a single mother of about 5 or 6 kids getting the once in a life time pleasure of acquiring a new house from ABC. A few minutes into the show my wife for four years said sort of in a smart ass way, "I hate to be judgmental, but where is their Dad". Keep in mind my wife will be filing for divorce after our house sells even though I want to desperately continue the marriage and we have a 19 month old daughter who we both adore. I thought about keeping my mouth shut after the comment but I just couldn't resist this one. I said, "well maybe THEIR mother decided that she didn’t love her husband any longer and that it was better to live from a broken home than in one". My wife had a “deer caught in headlights look” on her face and said, "that was a low blow". But it is true isn't it?

I for years had a negative impression of my childhood friends who lived with just their mothers and who had unseen fathers. I thought "why in the world did their dad leave his family? What was wrong with him?" I've heard countless of stories on the news about "deadbeat" dads being put in jail for not paying child support or them taking off (kidnapping their own kids) out of state. These men were villains in my mind, yet if you do the research you'll find that 2 out of 3 divorces are filed by the wife and in over 90 percent of the cases the wife always gets custody. When I look at my situation I realize I too will be looked in the same light. Sure I'll pay the child support, but I won't be there with my daughter every evening to hug her and to read to her before going to bed. I'll make the time that I have with her the best I can possibly make it, but they'll still be so many missed opportunities that I would have shared with her if my wife would have kept with the commitment of "I do". What if my wife moves out of state and leaves me without seeing my sweetheart for months at a time? I couldn't bare it but it is always a possibility and as the "man" or should I say partial custody parent of my daughter I only have limited rights. Don't get me wrong I know there are some women who had to get out of their marriages due to physical or emotional abuse, but when you decide knowingly to be intimate with someone who could be the father of your baby you must look at what is in the best interest of that child. I can't help but knowing that some people, who have a picture of me already made up in their minds, will say "I hate to be a smart ass, but where is her dad?".

[missing]

What you are describing is a sad fact of our society. Many men are quite bitter about it, and IMO justifiably so. It's another example of how masculinity is vilified and devalued in the mainstream. Possibly the most destructive and devastating both to individuals and society as a whole. I'm sure many feminists view your kind of plight as "collateral damage" in the fight against the actual deadbeats. Even if they claim to sympathize, you don't really matter to them. I wish you the best of luck but won't lie, you don't have an easy road ahead of you.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

First, deadbeat dads aren't just from marriages. Even though (if your statistic is correct) two out of three divorces are filed by the woman, that doesn't mean only one out of every three guys chooses to leave his family. Many of the deadbeat dads were not married to the mother of their children to begin with.

Second, it seems that though you don't want to get divorced things are amicable (you're in the same home watching sappy tv together). Your wife doesn't seem to be intent on hurting you. You can have the custody documents written as to prohibit moves further than a certain distance. If you want to spend loads of time with your daughter, have it written up so that you get 50/50 custody. Unless there is something you haven't mentioned it doesn't look as if your wife intends to stop you from seeing your daughter.

Third, I don't believe it can be conclusively said that the best interest of the child is to have both parents 24/7.

My main point is, instead of looking at how you are a victim of your situation, how about taking steps to make sure you are in your daughter's life. Someone who deserts his child deserves the title "deadbeat dad" to me. There are plenty such men. I don't think we are calling great fathers who want to provide for and see their children deadbeat dads simply because they do not reside with the mother and child. Do you? You are not that. It doesn't seem your wife will paint you as such. Forget about deadbeat dads and the bad rap they get (um, boo-hoo). Just do what's best for you and your daughter. This is not your wife's fault or yours. It's just reality.

[Ree]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

I believe there is a disconnect between how the media and society in general portrays "deadbeat dads" and what is actually reality. The other week my soon to be ex-wife and I were watching ABC's Extreme Makeover about a single mother of about 5 or 6 kids getting the once in a life time pleasure of acquiring a new house from ABC. A few minutes into the show my wife for four years said sort of in a smart ass way, "I hate to be judgmental, but where is their Dad". Keep in mind my wife will be filing for divorce after our house sells even though I want to desperately continue the marriage and we have a 19 month old daughter who we both adore. I thought about keeping my mouth shut after the comment but I just couldn't resist this one. I said, "well maybe THEIR mother decided that she didn’t love her husband any longer and that it was better to live from a broken home than in one". My wife had a “deer caught in headlights look” on her face and said, "that was a low blow". But it is true isn't it?

I for years had a negative impression of my childhood friends who lived with just their mothers and who had unseen fathers. I thought "why in the world did their dad leave his family? What was wrong with him?" I've heard countless of stories on the news about "deadbeat" dads being put in jail for not paying child support or them taking off (kidnapping their own kids) out of state. These men were villains in my mind, yet if you do the research you'll find that 2 out of 3 divorces are filed by the wife and in over 90 percent of the cases the wife always gets custody. When I look at my situation I realize I too will be looked in the same light. Sure I'll pay the child support, but I won't be there with my daughter every evening to hug her and to read to her before going to bed. I'll make the time that I have with her the best I can possibly make it, but they'll still be so many missed opportunities that I would have shared with her if my wife would have kept with the commitment of "I do". What if my wife moves out of state and leaves me without seeing my sweetheart for months at a time? I couldn't bare it but it is always a possibility and as the "man" or should I say partial custody parent of my daughter I only have limited rights. Don't get me wrong I know there are some women who had to get out of their marriages due to physical or emotional abuse, but when you decide knowingly to be intimate with someone who could be the father of your baby you must look at what is in the best interest of that child. I can't help but knowing that some people, who have a picture of me already made up in their minds, will say "I hate to be a smart ass, but where is her dad?".

First let me say that there is a huge amount of truth in what you say. Had my marriage fallen upon hard times when my children were small, I can't imagine having tried to raise my children alone or having tried to put my husband out of our lives, if there ever was a strand of hope that my marriage would work. Marriage is hard work and my opinion is that too many people go into marriage starry eyed and concentrating too much on the elaborate wedding and not enough on the years of marriage that follow. They then compound that mistake by having children without thinking that through completely either.

That said, I would like to tell you that you should get a very good lawyer and be sure your rights are protected. Go for joint custody. I'm in court on a regular basis and I know for a fact that these days, judges LIKE to see fathers who want to be involved in the lives of their children. Sole custody is rarely given to the mother just because she's the mother. If you have joint custody, you will have a say in where your child lives and she can't be taken out of state without your permission. Many many times the court will appoint a guardian ad litem, a totally objective third party whose sole purpose is to see to the welfare and the rights of the child. The guardian ad litem will come into the home and spend time with mom, dad, child and if need be teachers, friends, aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. They manage to get much more information than a judge can get during a limited amount of time in a hearing room and this would allow you to have a great deal of input.

Actually, the legal system has changed a lot in recent years where family law is concerned and I hope you take advantage of every opportunity to continue to be a dad to your daughter. You sound like you're a great one! Good luck.

[Alex2007]

This is what I call Sexism and society's tendency (most managerial positions are held by men) to over-protect the female in an attempt to feed up their masculine Ego's which, beleive me, (masculine Egos) are very hungry for food...They actually USE the female as a tool to get their food! The price is paid by other poor men.

Being a man myself, I find your views very caring and loving, even though there is a hidden story going in your wife's mind that keeps her appart, but I can not tell what caused it.

No matter which society you live in, you sound like a caring man who knows what his reality is. I am sure you can convince even the most hungry ego's out there. Just keep your self in a safe place and away from infectuous people who can push you in the wrong direction.

Be still, be yourself and see what happens.

Alex
----

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by missing

I'm sure many feminists view your kind of plight as "collateral damage" in the fight against the actual deadbeats. Even if they claim to sympathize, you don't really matter to them.

I am sure I am jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire here, but what do you mean by that?

Really, I don't know anyone who doesn't have sympathy for the dads who do want to see their kids and be a part of their lives, but who are prevented. I have a friend who rarely got to see his son and it devastates him to this day. The label deadbeat is for a guy who doesn't care to see his children and has no interest in providing for them. Those guys don't have my sympathy. Everyone who is trying to do what is best for their kids does.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

I said, "well maybe THEIR mother decided that she didn’t love her husband any longer and that it was better to live from a broken home than in one". My wife had a “deer caught in headlights look” on her face and said, "that was a low blow". But it is true isn't it?.

Amadeus, is this a pattern in your 4-years together, in which one of you says something and the other *reacts* rather than responds, leading to hurt on one or both sides? Also, is being right worth it at the expense of feeling related to the mother of your beloved child?

It sounds like you wouldn't mind having a good relationship with her again, and maybe even reconcile with her. Whether or not you stay together, wouldn't it be nice to start working on productive communication now, for everyone's best interest?

Good luck; you're in a tough spot. But you also have a lot of power.

[Amadeus]

Angela

Amadeus, is this a pattern in your 4-years together, in which one of you says something and the other *reacts* rather than responds, leading to hurt on one or both sides? Also, is being right worth it at the expense of feeling related to the mother of your beloved child?

Angela I completely agree with what you are saying and believe me when I say I almost past up saying it, but I'm sure you can understand why I took the opportunity to blurt it out. It was a ball the size of the Grand Canyon that was just sitting there for me to blow out of the park. You are right, but if I had the chance to take back what I said, I wouldn't if I'm honest.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback and polite comments.

[Angela]

Amadeus, I'm not trying to give you a hard time about it; I just wanted to point out one possible thing you could look at as you do what it takes to create and maintain a loving, positive relationship with this woman with whom you will be sharing parenting for the rest of your life, however it all turns out.

[robc]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

I believe there is a disconnect between how the media and society in general portrays "deadbeat dads" and what is actually reality. The other week my soon to be ex-wife and I were watching ABC's Extreme Makeover about a single mother of about 5 or 6 kids getting the once in a life time pleasure of acquiring a new house from ABC. A few minutes into the show my wife for four years said sort of in a smart ass way, "I hate to be judgmental, but where is their Dad". Keep in mind my wife will be filing for divorce after our house sells even though I want to desperately continue the marriage and we have a 19 month old daughter who we both adore. I thought about keeping my mouth shut after the comment but I just couldn't resist this one. I said, "well maybe THEIR mother decided that she didn’t love her husband any longer and that it was better to live from a broken home than in one". My wife had a “deer caught in headlights look” on her face and said, "that was a low blow". But it is true isn't it?

I for years had a negative impression of my childhood friends who lived with just their mothers and who had unseen fathers. I thought "why in the world did their dad leave his family? What was wrong with him?" I've heard countless of stories on the news about "deadbeat" dads being put in jail for not paying child support or them taking off (kidnapping their own kids) out of state. These men were villains in my mind, yet if you do the research you'll find that 2 out of 3 divorces are filed by the wife and in over 90 percent of the cases the wife always gets custody. When I look at my situation I realize I too will be looked in the same light. Sure I'll pay the child support, but I won't be there with my daughter every evening to hug her and to read to her before going to bed. I'll make the time that I have with her the best I can possibly make it, but they'll still be so many missed opportunities that I would have shared with her if my wife would have kept with the commitment of "I do". What if my wife moves out of state and leaves me without seeing my sweetheart for months at a time? I couldn't bare it but it is always a possibility and as the "man" or should I say partial custody parent of my daughter I only have limited rights. Don't get me wrong I know there are some women who had to get out of their marriages due to physical or emotional abuse, but when you decide knowingly to be intimate with someone who could be the father of your baby you must look at what is in the best interest of that child. I can't help but knowing that some people, who have a picture of me already made up in their minds, will say "I hate to be a smart ass, but where is her dad?".

Amadeus I read your post, specifically the part about not wanting to end your marriage. Are you serious? If so email me rfcilia at gmail dot com

I do have some things you can try out that might help swing the momemtum over to your side. I would need more info about your situation, how long you've been together, if there was love in this relationship to begin with, what's causing the divorce, if one of you was unfaithful or abusive, kinds of arguments you have, how you got involved, current living arrangements, etc.

You have nothing to lose at this point, so if you're interested, let me know.
The advice I offer might help but it's not usually easily to air out the dirty laundry in a discussion forum like this.

Let me know.

p.s. Cheer up, you're still alive, healthy I presume and you have a beautiful baby daughter, all is not lost!

[Jennihul]

To me, the deadbeat dad is the CEO who, out of spite for having to pay child support and/or alimony, quits and goes to work at a tire center. Or hides his income completely by working under the table. Or let's his new gf or wife spend him into bankruptcy and blows off his kids.

Most are guys just trying to earn a living.

The moral of the story is: once you give the "gift" of your sperm, you will have no control over how it used. Don't be stupid. Don't have kids unless you are in a solid relationship and if you are in a solid relationship, protect yourself and your rights very quickly if things begin to sour. How many men, desiring that the estranged relationship magically revert back to the "way it was" totally go into denial until some lawyer rapes them and tells them what their reality is going to be? Instead of pro-actively working out their own version of reality before it's too late?


Jennifer

[robc]

Originally Posted by Jennihul

To me, the deadbeat dad is the CEO who, out of spite for having to pay child support and/or alimony, quits and goes to work at a tire center. Or hides his income completely by working under the table. Or let's his new gf or wife spend him into bankruptcy and blows off his kids.

Most are guys just trying to earn a living.

The moral of the story is: once you give the "gift" of your sperm, you will have no control over how it used. Don't be stupid. Don't have kids unless you are in a solid relationship and if you are in a solid relationship, protect yourself and your rights very quickly if things begin to sour. How many men, desiring that the estranged relationship magically revert back to the "way it was" totally go into denial until some lawyer rapes them and tells them what their reality is going to be? Instead of pro-actively working out their own version of reality before it's too late?


Jennifer

Most guys mate for life, I don't have stats to back this up but I would venture a solid guess that more than 2/3's of divorces are initiated by women.
So when a man does get married, he is invested in the relationship, it is solid for him, and for many men, they're clueless about relationship health and what they have to do to keep it healthy. Women have alot more power in today's relationships and as such men are losing their place in relationships and in society in general. You can't be a man because that means you're insensitive & chauvinist & not involved enough in the relationship, you can't be sensitive because you're too clingy & needy and don't focus enough on your own needs and invest all your energy into the relationship and leave little for yourself. There is no middle ground unfortunately for most men. Another thing I would point out and again I don't have stats handy to back this up, I bet you there is a decline in overall marriage rates - people are preferring to stay single because they're afraid of getting divorced. 1st time Divorce rates are skyrocketing, 2nd & 3rd time divorce rates are even higher and no one seems to be asking the question about what this dilemna is being caused by. Also another thing to look into, suicide rates for divorced men, I bet you that's another stat that's on an increasing trend: men are slowly being pushed out of the equation and having no place left to exist, paying crazy $$$ amounts for spousal & child abuse and having nothing left to exist on for themselves and yet it continues. Society overall is really in a downward spiral and this is one facet of that problem.

Where do men go when there is no place left for them to go? Why do men have to be weekend dads? Why is it assumed that a man can't offer just as fulfilling a parenting role as the mother? With divorce being so prevalent we're also just reinforcing a pattern of behavior for our children to follow, it's ok to get divorced, it's no longer a question of if, it's almost a fact that you will get divorced - it's pretty sad.

[Vasilisa]

I think you, guys, exaggerating. Majority of the divorced men I know have joint custody, unless they are unsuitable for it (drinking habits, drugs, mental problems) or don't want to (in this case they see their kids for 3 days every 2 weeks or weekends).
Of course, divorced people are supposed to pay child support. It's only fair.
May be women who file for divorce are deeply unhappy in their marriages and before judging them we should consider - why?
It can't be without any reason. Right?
I don't think that marriage should be like a jail or a cage and a person should stay in it until he (or she) dies no matter how bad and unhappy it is.
What is better for a child- two deeply unhappy, hating each other, but living together parents or living separately but content?

[missing]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I am sure I am jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire here, but what do you mean by that?

Really, I don't know anyone who doesn't have sympathy for the dads who do want to see their kids and be a part of their lives, but who are prevented. I have a friend who rarely got to see his son and it devastates him to this day. The label deadbeat is for a guy who doesn't care to see his children and has no interest in providing for them. Those guys don't have my sympathy. Everyone who is trying to do what is best for their kids does.

I think I made it pretty clear that most people sympathize with fathers like the OP when they know the details. The problem is nobody's willing to do anything (aka pass laws) to help such people, because they are afraid it will let true dead beats off the hook. They will also "assume" he's just another dead beat unless they are given the full story (aka, know the details). Unfortunately life doesn't always give us a chance to give details. And no I don't like real dead beats either but I'm also of the belief that it's better to let 10 guilty man set free than to have one innocent imprisoned so.. make of that what you will.

The issue is way more complex than I'm making it out to be.

[Erki]

Originally Posted by robc

Most guys mate for life, I don't have stats to back this up but I would venture a solid guess that more than 2/3's of divorces are initiated by women.
So when a man does get married, he is invested in the relationship, it is solid for him, and for many men, they're clueless about relationship health and what they have to do to keep it healthy.

But if he's clueless about relationship health, is he really invested?

I'd say that in some cases, men don't want divorce simply because there is someone at home who cleans up and keeps the house tidy...

[robc]

Originally Posted by Erki

But if he's clueless about relationship health, is he really invested?

I'd say that in some cases, men don't want divorce simply because there is someone at home who cleans up and keeps the house tidy...

This doesn't let them entirely off the hook but it does offer some explanation as to what's going on. How many adult men can say that when they were growing up they were taught the basics of relationship health and how to keep a family together? I would venture a bet that says very few ever receive any wisdom in this area. You grow up and you learn what you're taught: you live in a home with 2 parents, sometimes both of them work sometimes it's just one of them and usually if it's one person working (not a rule but a generalization) is the father. So you know that employment and making money is a rule when you're an adult. You have to work hard and pay bills if you want to have a home, a car, clothes, tv and food in the fridge. So we've learned that much. We see parents fighting when we grow up ranging from infrequent arguments to explicit abuse on the part of 1 or both partners. So we learn that fighting is part of the equation. You go to school and pick up book smarts, that's part of it too. You notice that it's always busy at home, things always need to be done, chores need to be done, house needs to be maintained, bills need to be payed, lawn needs to be mowed, things have to be purchased from the store regularly. You learn that being busy is part of this equation as well. Where in all this mess do parents sit down with their children and teach them relationship basics - the world is way too busy and by the time people come home from work, they're exhausted and still have to put in the 2nd shift at home. No one is taking the time to teach anyone relationship basics.

Do you really think men are just clueless about relationship health on purpose? We are all products of our environment and although some people do change and break out of their original molds, for the most part that isn't how everyone will be. Most men will continue doing what they're learned because it's all they know. Don't fault them for not being as invested in their marriages as they can possibly be, if no one has taught them any different why would you expect any different from them?

[robc]

Most men don't come home to a clean & tidy house as per the picture you're painting, most men have to contribute to the household work just as much as their wives. I think it's an inaccurate assumption that most men come home to dinner waiting on the table, slippers by the recliner, pipe lit next to the newspaper with a happy wife in apron smiling at the door. That would be something straight out of a 50's advertisement or something. I know for myself I regularly clean the home, do dishes, laundry, household maintenance, manage the finances and help with taking care of the kids just as much as my wife and I know I'm not unique in that respect: lots of men do that too, more men than we give credit for.

[Vasilisa]

Strange, in most couples I know - if woman stays home she does ALL housework and takes care of kids. If a woman works she does 2/3 of housework anyway.
We probably live in different worlds.

[robc]

Originally Posted by Vasilisa

Strange, in most couples I know - if woman stays home she does ALL housework and takes care of kids. If a woman works she does 2/3 of housework anyway.
We probably live in different worlds.

I notice that most women don't like to stay at home and be a housewife and take care of the house & kids, it's not as fulfilling as it was once described. Most complain about going stir crazy and that working is a way to get out of the home and eliminate that problem. Plus with the cost of living as such, I think 2 income household is the most common out there, it's very hard to survive on one income alone. Things just cost so much more nowadays, how do you get buy on just one income? Rent/mortgage, utility bills, car payments, groceries, clothes, fuel, personal expenses, etc. In fact I don't think I personally know of any families that are not 2 income households and I think it's that way more by necessity than choice.

The bills don't stop coming.

[Honeywith4bees]

I'm a one income family but only because while my ex-husband loves our kids and loves to spend loads of time with them, he's not at all interested in financially supporting them.

(Gets more and more complex doesn't it?)