Asperger's Syndrome and other forms of autism

[The David]

Does anyone here have personal experience with this? I've been studying it exhaustively for the past month (the reason I haven't been on here much) and it's been very enlightening. Steve wrote a brief blog entry dealing with it, then went on to say that social skills can be learned like anything else, but I still wonder what advice he would give people who really have to start at zero. Even the great Dale Carnegie and Don Gabor assume that the reader even knows what it means to 'tune into' the environment.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Aspergers and other higher functioning forms of autism leave more space for the person to learn certain behaviors. Still though some of those social skills will be in place, they will be more of a conditioned response. Often the person will not really "get" why it's expected of them to behave a certain way.

I've worked with kids with autism -- some very high functioning, some with Aspergers, some lower functioning -- and early and thorough intervention and therapy does a lot to make it easier for them to integrate with neurotypical folks.

I don't know that I have the answer to your question actually, but in my experience it's not as easy as teaching social skills. There is definitely a lot more that goes into it when the person you are teaching doesn't experience the world in a "typical" way.

[Amadeus]

If you would like to further talk about Asperger Syndrome with personally then email me at metaforge74@gmail.com I honestly don't think social skills can be "learned" really. You can learn skills to help cope with others day to day, but problems with developing meaningful relationships will always be there with those with Aspergers. Socializing is like walking, sleeping, blinking your eyes, etc. You shouldn't have to really think that hard to socialize. Those with Aspergers have to use a different part of their brains (non frontal lobe) to try and socialize.
I have found that a GFCF diet (gluten free and dairy free) helps tremendously with Asperger symptoms. It is something we can talk about further. The theory is that gluten (wheat, barley, oats) and dairy protein peptides can't be fully digested in the stomach that is too porous so they go into the bloodstream of people with Autism effecting frontal lobe functioning.

[missing]

I think asperger's/autism are pretty broad terms that cover an impressive array of people. There are some commonalities, the main one being the lack of social skills. I've been dx'd with Asperger's, and I think for me personally a lot of the issues are a result of physical dysfunction, mostly a lack of energy. And I don't mean it in the way that everyone does when they complain of being tired (though this isn't unrelated). Rather I think something is seriously amiss with the mind-body functioning. What is it? I wish knew, but I have my theories.

I think there are significant environmental factors at play. Mercury has gotten lots of press (both good and bad) and I think that explains some of it, but I also think it's more an aggregate effect of the unnatural modern environment. It's very out of sync with the environment our bodies evolved to be comfortable with. I'm also looking into the possibility of nasal congestion from a deviated septum, and a chance I might have sleep apnea, and other things related to that area of the body. From what I've heard, some people with Asperger's have epic sleep issues. I certainly do.

But to try and bring this back to the main issue, social skills; consider that there is a heck of a lot of information that the body needs to process fast in social situations. If you lack the energy to process all the info, you are going to have a hard time keeping up. I believe that is why people with Asperger's are drawn to slower, isolated activities where they can more easily keep pace. This isn't ALL BAD, as it leads them to gain a perspective that is often lacking and sorely needed in today's fast paced society. But it does impair ones ability to function which can be a problem, unless somebody is willing to take care of them to accommodate their unique perspective. Of course that's a very ideal situation and not a good one to rely on.

To try and end on a useful note, I will say that right now I'm focused on the physical. It's not much a choice as things have gotten pretty bad of late, but I do have some ideas about what to tackle. After I deal with that sufficiently I will try and deal with the social stuff more. I think it can be tough after many years of non socializing, you miss out on a lot. You have to find some kind of "edge", something that makes you worth talking to despite your lack of social skills. Once you get going you can sort of learn to pick up on things naturally, and not rely on your "edge" so much. This is the real challenge for those with Asperger's. Some can do it easily. Others have a real hard time.

Autism is something of a different beast all together...

[vapourmile]

I have never made a friend. Not in my whole life. I can recall, ever since I was not more than a baby, being puzzled by the whole world of friends and relationships, not understanding either the how or why. I wanted to try though and all my attempts at making bonds have been awkward and have failed.

Finding work is a joke. Firstly, I hate moving things. Moving stuff around makes me very unhappy. If it needs any sort of organisation, doubly unhappy. This rules out factory work. I tried and walked out in minutes. It was ghastly.

I just can't make inroads with other staff. I feel like I'm surrounded by aliens who are speaking a language I can't understand. When people speak to me I get really confused as I simply do not understand the point. It is very frustrating. Also, if there any contentious issues around or people upset I get very anxious because I don't know if I should do something or even what I could do if I should.

So I don't deal with people or stuff. Can you imagine what this is like? It doesn't leave much except my thoughts which are primarily concerned with what to do about the fact I don't deal with people or stuff. The results of my history of trying only reinforce my belief it's much better to simply not bother. This is sad for me because I do actually wish I had friends, supporters, people to talk things through with. It is a trap because I never get far enough with people to be able to discuss why I never get far with people. I mean, I am more or less barred from those things they call growth experiences which means I am now forty and live like a child.

[fascinoma]

My partner has Asperger's.

For a long time I thought I might have it because I'm "a little different".

Until I met my partner, and people in the Asperger community.

Asperger's is NOT being "a little different".

From the outside, it's easy to say "they can learn social skills and change". I see how hard it is for my partner. It's even hard to explain to her sometimes what certain social skills are or why they're used.

Asperger's is NOT being shy, geeky, or even a little rough around the edges, and it's NOT being occasionally rude or unsocialized.

My partner has stellar manners.

If you get with a partner who has Asperger's, you can expect that sometimes you will be the caregiver. You will need to comfort them when social things go amiss for them. You can also expect that they will not intuit your emotional needs. You have to spell everything out. Most people don't have the language for this. If you come home after a hard day at work and need a backrub and cup of hot tea, you will have to ask for it. Your partner will not stop what they are doing to comfort you without you asking. And you will probably be interrupting him or her in one of their reveries when you ask, and COULD get a response that you can mistake for them being mad - they're not mad at you.
You will have to ask ahead of time. "Sweetie - sometimes when I'm home from work, I'm really tired and frazzled. This is what it looks like and how you can tell, or sometimes I'll just say so. When I'm like that, I need some extra TLC. By TLC I mean (give concrete example)."
And you will likely give out far more comfort and make more adaptations then you can expect to get in return.

That said, your partner will never cheat on you, nor will your partner ever lie to you.

[The David]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

If you would like to further talk about Asperger Syndrome with personally then email me at metaforge74@gmail.com I honestly don't think social skills can be "learned" really. You can learn skills to help cope with others day to day, but problems with developing meaningful relationships will always be there with those with Aspergers. Socializing is like walking, sleeping, blinking your eyes, etc. You shouldn't have to really think that hard to socialize. Those with Aspergers have to use a different part of their brains (non frontal lobe) to try and socialize.
I have found that a GFCF diet (gluten free and dairy free) helps tremendously with Asperger symptoms. It is something we can talk about further. The theory is that gluten (wheat, barley, oats) and dairy protein peptides can't be fully digested in the stomach that is too porous so they go into the bloodstream of people with Autism effecting frontal lobe functioning.

Are you personally autistic, or do you work with autistic people?

[brendannz]

Hi there,

I have a few autistic traits, my main problem is I daydream a lot, to the point where at work I have to hide my smiling face from colleagues, however I am quite creative and imaginative. I can be a bit childish and naive.. I sometimes stutter when I speak and mumble a bit, I do have some social anxiety. But I can be pretty outgoing. Even organise events to go to with my friends..

I probably don't have autism, but I might have some condition that affects my life... and I think although we can improve ourselves, we can't ever change ourselves

not sure, any clues would be helpful..

[The David]

Originally Posted by brendannz

Hi there,

I have a few autistic traits, my main problem is I daydream a lot, to the point where at work I have to hide my smiling face from colleagues, however I am quite creative and imaginative. I can be a bit childish and naive.. I sometimes stutter when I speak and mumble a bit, I do have some social anxiety. But I can be pretty outgoing. Even organise events to go to with my friends..

I probably don't have autism, but I might have some condition that affects my life... and I think although we can improve ourselves, we can't ever change ourselves

not sure, any clues would be helpful..

I think autism is mainly about impairment of social learning. I've heard it described as 'social dyslexia', although I don't know when dyslexia became the template for learning disabilities. Social anxiety occurs more commonly than some people think, though, because if you've spent years being awkward then you won't exactly be positively reinforced in social situations.

I am not sure of the extent to which social skills can be learned. All I know is that I've spent too many years forcing myself, and learning what the real problem is has encouraged me to stop. The challenge is knowing how much to stop. I do hear of autistic people who can at least 'fake' things like small talk.

[vapourmile]

I must admit to having always shinned this 'impairment' business. Why should I be impaired just because I have different interests to others? It's actually true though. I'd describe it more as a kind of emotional myopia than social dyslexia. But I'd like to sway the judgement away from thinking something is wrong with me that needs treatment, suggesting a part of me should be erased. I'd prefer it if people realised I need help. I don't want to have my autism treated or cured. I don't want to be forced to be more sociable, which is a treatment that has been prescribed in the past in which autistic children were tied to chairs in public places in order to "get used to it". I read a story in which a hippie couple dragged their son across the globe looking for witch doctor and voodoo cures. The story carried a picture of their son sobbing as he was coaxed into drinking an unnamed fluid prescribed by an Indian tribe. What sort of parental love is it to say "We don't like you, we want to change you so you're like us".

I don't want to be like other people because other people are stupid. I would like some help making friends though. I have wanted to understand how since my earliest memories of walking into strangers houses and sitting on their sofas. What sort of answer is it to say "social skills can be learned"? I have been through psychotherapy and counselling, a lot of it voluntarily, sometimes with the recommendation of doctors, and nobody I have spoken to is giving out social skills lessons. There aren't any social skills schools in my area.

Few people I have heard use the expression "social skills" are the best authorities on the subject. It seems obvious to me that social graces are not distributed evenly and I dislike people forwarding the idea that "social skills" is something you either have or you do not. It obviously isn't as black and white as all that. In my opinion the people with the most social skills have been the kindest to me, rarely the ones who make assertions about social skills.

As well as become more friendly I'd love to be able to be left in peace to learn about my computer for the rest of my natural life. I'm sick of being made to feel guilty and wrong and being surrounded by people trying to take me away from the very thing I actually enjoy. I live in a society that could accept this but doesn't.

My explanation is that Autistic children are born with a different brain, with, and this is only my suggestion, many more dopamine connections around the part of the brain that deals with logic and reason than most other people. people are too much "Oh, he can't be happy in front of that computer", on the contrary, I'm perfectly at ease here. I'm just fed up with being told by others what would make me happy. I know what would make me happy: To be allowed to sit here in front of my computer for as long as I like.

[The David]

Originally Posted by vapourmile

I must admit to having always shinned this 'impairment' business. Why should I be impaired just because I have different interests to others? It's actually true though. I'd describe it more as a kind of emotional myopia than social dyslexia. But I'd like to sway the judgement away from thinking something is wrong with me that needs treatment, suggesting a part of me should be erased. I'd prefer it if people realised I need help. I don't want to have my autism treated or cured. I don't want to be forced to be more sociable, which is a treatment that has been prescribed in the past in which autistic children were tied to chairs in public places in order to "get used to it". I read a story in which a hippie couple dragged their son across the globe looking for witch doctor and voodoo cures. The story carried a picture of their son sobbing as he was coaxed into drinking an unnamed fluid prescribed by an Indian tribe. What sort of parental love is it to say "We don't like you, we want to change you so you're like us".

I don't want to be like other people because other people are stupid. I would like some help making friends though. I have wanted to understand how since my earliest memories of walking into strangers houses and sitting on their sofas. What sort of answer is it to say "social skills can be learned"? I have been through psychotherapy and counselling, a lot of it voluntarily, sometimes with the recommendation of doctors, and nobody I have spoken to is giving out social skills lessons. There aren't any social skills schools in my area.

Few people I have heard use the expression "social skills" are the best authorities on the subject. It seems obvious to me that social graces are not distributed evenly and I dislike people forwarding the idea that "social skills" is something you either have or you do not. It obviously isn't as black and white as all that. In my opinion the people with the most social skills have been the kindest to me, rarely the ones who make assertions about social skills.

As well as become more friendly I'd love to be able to be left in peace to learn about my computer for the rest of my natural life. I'm sick of being made to feel guilty and wrong and being surrounded by people trying to take me away from the very thing I actually enjoy. I live in a society that could accept this but doesn't.

My explanation is that Autistic children are born with a different brain, with, and this is only my suggestion, many more dopamine connections around the part of the brain that deals with logic and reason than most other people. people are too much "Oh, he can't be happy in front of that computer", on the contrary, I'm perfectly at ease here. I'm just fed up with being told by others what would make me happy. I know what would make me happy: To be allowed to sit here in front of my computer for as long as I like.

If you feel that way, you're doing a lot better than some of us (or at least, you are now. I don't know). The reason some of us consider it an impairment is because of our desire to have a more active social life. We have desires and can't sate them because of our brain type, so it is a problem. Granted, the solution may be to get used to it rather than take 'social skills' training, but it's not just the stigma. Being socially un-enabled can be a very bad experience.

[vapourmile]

Originally Posted by The David

If you feel that way, you're doing a lot better than some of us (or at least, you are now. I don't know). The reason some of us consider it an impairment is because of our desire to have a more active social life. We have desires and can't sate them because of our brain type, so it is a problem. Granted, the solution may be to get used to it rather than take 'social skills' training, but it's not just the stigma. Being socially un-enabled can be a very bad experience.

I have thought about starting a mentoring program myself. Mentoring programs do exist but they are generally designed for wayward school children. From where I am it looks like once you hit a certain age bracket the amount of help and sympathy you can expect, say you're a single male between 30 and 50, falls in the negatives. "If you can't look after yourself at that age", the saying goes, "there's something wrong with you". We know there's something wrong with us! The problem is there being no catch net.

Despite various prime ministers celebrating England's multi-culturalism, isn't really true. It reminds me of Rome in which you were allowed to profess any belief, on the condition you put the interests of Rome ahead of them all.

In England you are allowed to hold to any faith, provided you place the economy above all other concerns. It's what I call paper-religion. If you cannot have a paper religion you become an outcast. If you can't talk money then you can't come in. I can appreciate it in terms of it being a resource but I also believe that it is a resource we have enough of to cater for those who cannot join in. We owe it to ourselves to be able to see that outside-thinkers are valuable to society because if there were nobody here to critique the status-quo then we could, as we indeed are, career along into an epistemological cul de sac. Commercialism is shepherding the country into an ideological rut which is like drilling a dry well for no other reason than that's what we've always done. It isn't really leading anywhere. It's a system founded on fear and the myth of found securities. Even with the whole system bringing the earth to its knees and being made a target of bloody attacks, it doesn't stop, nobody built a brake in. The system is self perpetuating but not self regulating, like a rolling snowball. It makes me want to rush outside and say to the whole western world "STOP!". This isn't making you happy. It isn't going to make you happy. Don't you think it's time to jump off the roundabout and get a better idea?

As for friendship, I still only have my theory's. I think it's something to do with support and status, and above all the fools-prize of security. All in all I think it's to do with shared fantasies, myths that people live to.

Groups gel via shared fantasies. Couples are united by dreams. If you're able to see those dreams for what they are: Just dreams, I don't think it's ever going to be easy to fit in because that would mean conspiring to the lies that others are conspiring with and actioned by. For example, the lie that there is light at the end of the tunnel. There is no no light, no end and no tunnel. To base ones life and behaviour on such things is to base ones existence on illusion.

Go out, find a meadow to frolic in, and wait for humans to evolve.