The list of male privileges

[Erki]

As I dragged another topic off topic, I decided to start a new one...

So, dear women, tell me, what are my so great privileges?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

You are born male into a society where men hold the power and where almost every segment of society is set up by men in a way which benefits them. Everything springs from that. There are things which are available to you simply because of your gender. You (and many men) may not take advantage of these things with the intent to be greater than women, but the reality is that women still have to struggle for equality.

[Erki]

Specific examples, please.

(Apologises for my aggressivity - but hey, I'm a male and males are aggressive...)

[Erki]

Thinking here, I can't think of one thing that men can do but women can't. Plenty of things to where the vice versa applies, though.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

For instance the fact that men are paid more than women for equivelant work.

I don't think I can even begin to elaborate on all the ways. It's so pervasive.

Look at how Hillary Clinton has been disected and attacked: she's too emotional, she's too hard, she's a ♥♥♥♥♥, she's ugly.

Look at the way the call girl hired by Eliot Spitzer has received a ton of press bashing her when he is the man, elected by the people to serve and respresent them, who chose to betray his family and his constituents. Excuses have been made for him.

Erki, I wish that I was able to explain it better. Maybe some research would be in order. It's really hard to see I am sure if you are not living it every day.

Shakesville

Look, Erki, I am not positioning women as the sole victims either. I believe the way society is set up is damaging to both men and women. I wonder if you would read some of the articles from the site I linked and see what you think?

If you search the site on the term "privelege" you will get a few that show what I am talking about.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Erki

Thinking here, I can't think of one thing that men can do but women can't. Plenty of things to where the vice versa applies, though.

I am not talking about things that can be physically done by a man or woman. I am talking about the way each are seen and valued in society.

[Rose of Cairo]

Here are a few of them, alone in a western society: The Male Privilege Checklist

Not to talk about other regions of the world.

[Erki]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Here are a few of them, alone in a western society: The Male Privilege Checklist

Not to talk about other regions of the world.

7. # If I'm a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are so low as to be negligible.

So how can I raise them?

8. # I am not taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces.

I actually were.

11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I'll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I'm even marginally competent.

That's just because I am expected to be a crap parent. Putting a lot of pressure on the woman to be a very good mother is not right. Is it right to expect a man to be a careless father?

14-15. # Chances are my elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more likely this is to be true.
# I can be somewhat sure that if I ask to see "the person in charge," I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

Is it important that the person in charge is the same sex as you? I bet that most women who cry out about the privilege thing wouldn't be happy with a man who protected women's rights and respected women. To some extent, yes, seeing that the person in charge can be a woman shows that women can get there, but still.

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.

Of course. And when "active and outgoing" is not who I am - then I'm blamed for being a sissy. How's that a privilege?

24. # If I have sex with a lot of people, it won't make me an object of contempt or derision.

That's because you can't make a man dirty - he is already. Women are expected to take more care of themselves - and men are expected to be the opposite. Which is better? Which is privilege?

27. # If I buy a new car, chances are I'll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.

There's a big chance that the woman is buying that car using his man's money...


Now how's about your privilege of actually having feelings too? I don't have that privilege.

[Erki]

Heh. I don't know what I'm aiming to achieve here anyway. Just being idiotic again. Should embrace myself being an RBP - really bad person.

Now where's my chamomile tea...?

[Michael45]

I have always said......... be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it........... but it might not be what you expected, or wanted...........

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Here are a few of them, alone in a western society: The Male Privilege Checklist

Not to talk about other regions of the world.

Hm, interesting. I am probably skewed by having spent the last 15 years with a very successful / powerful woman who never felt her gender held her back and would in fact have been horrified to hide behind that for anything in her life that didn't go well, but even so. I don't think some of these really apply anymore -- and I am skeptical that some of them have applied since perhaps the 1980s. Here are the weakest IMO:

#14 & 15 -- so what??

#19 -- it would never have entered my wife's head to wonder if there were sexist overtones to her bad weeks and in fact I doubt she would have seen a significant connection here. It's true that most of her colleagues were men, but they respected her and held her in the highest esteem, and frankly, she was more comfortable with that then with the catty, petty, vindictive company of other women.

#20 -- in what sense aren't women widely represented in the media?? I doubt this one has ever been an issue. Now if you don't like the WAY they are represented ... since the 80's the strong trend IMO has been that men are portrayed consistently as incompetent buffoons and women are portrayed consistently as their long suffering saviors. Enough backlash, already.

#21 and #22 -- to the extent that carelessness in driving or finances used to play into the "scatterbrained woman" stereotype I think they now play into the "knuckle-dragging caveman" and/or "clueless buffoon" males stereotypes.

#30 On the other hand, violence against men from women is scarcely recognized. I know a guy whose wife, in the past year or so, has kicked, punched, slapped, and threatened him with a paring knife. If he had done this to her, he'd be in jail, probably just on her accusation. But nobody believes she does this to him, or if they do, they think he is man enough to handle it. Seems like a double standard to me. And it takes the "incredibly" out of the unlikelihood of #42, as well. I think women flatter themselves that they are more peaceful and less violent than men but when you factor in all the deniable ways a woman can be vicious -- to men and to other women -- this illusion evaporates.

At the end of the day, men and women are people -- neuroses and all. There are in fact pros and cons to being one gender or the other, but in the US at least I regard it as a wash.

--Bob

[Pegasus]

Erki,

One privilege men have is rarely having to wait in line in a public restroom. Equality and fairness are not the same.

Men can also appreciate that they are entitled to their emotions. Women's feelings are often not taken seriously. Instead, our emotions get attributed to hormones.

[Doku]

If you are going to go down the road of trying to get equality of the sexes, can you also look into the children of divorce cases, and the father's ability to be a single parent?

[silicon toad2000]

What a crock.

Most of the things on that list are delusions, paranoia and the projection of someone's own feelings of inadequacy.

There is a skew of males at the top of the tree; there is also a skew of males at the bottom of the tree. There is a reason for this. The major intelligence gene is on the X chromosome. Women have two so their intelligence is an average of the two (no it’s not the sum of the two). Men only have one and so their intelligence level is dictated only by that one. Because of this, the range of intelligence is broader in males than in females. The lower percentile of males tend to be less intelligent than the lower percentile of females and the higher percentile of males tend to be more intelligent than the higher percentile of females. Jobs at each end of the spectrum tend to be filled by males.

[jaamkie]

on a personal note... men have the privilege of not bleeding all over the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ place every month and feeling sick and exhausted and overly-emotional for no good reason. also, they usually aren't expected to raise kids alone and take care of a household while having a normal work life. then they also can go alone and do whatever they want without people questioning their safety or scolding them for it.

[missing]

Originally Posted by Pegasus

Men can also appreciate that they are entitled to their emotions. Women's feelings are often not taken seriously. Instead, our emotions get attributed to hormones.

yea, and men always being out of touch with their emotions and being expected to suppress them the rare moments they do get in touch. sooooo much better...

This topic makes me angry. Most women who perpetuate the idea of "male privilege" seem to not have a clue what it's like to be a man in today's society. Privilege for men mostly applies to the alpha males, the higher ups of society. The rest of us get ♥♥♥♥♥, yet we are all painted with one big brush. That list linked to is absurd and made up of biased assumptions. Here's a different list using facts. I'm not the biggest fan of statistics but at least these weren't just pulled out of someone's ideas about what the world is like.

Statistics

Scroll to the end for the most startling;

For every 100 females ages 15 to 19 that commit suicide 549 males in the same range kill themselves.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/LCWK1_2002.pdf

For every 100 females ages 20 to 24 that commit suicide 624 males of the same age kill themselves.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/LCWK1_2002.pdf

For every 100 girls ages 15 to 17 in correctional facilities there are 837 boys behind bars.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/
phc-t26.html

For every 100 women ages 18 to 21 in correctional facilities there are 1430 men behind bars.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/
phc-t26.html

For every 100 women ages 22 to 24 in correctional facilities there are 1448 men in correctional facilities.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/
phc-t26.html

For every 100 women living in military quarters there are 642 men living in military quarters.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/
phc-t26.html

[missing]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Erki, I wish that I was able to explain it better. Maybe some research would be in order. It's really hard to see I am sure if you are not living it every day.

wouldn't this kind of thinking go both ways?

Women seem to have privileges that they take for granted. If they spent a week as a man they'd understand. Some lesbian did this for 20/20 I think, and this was her conclusion;

ABC News: A Self-Made Man

"Men are suffering. They have different problems than women have, but they don't have it better," she said. "They need our sympathy. They need our love, and maybe they need each other more than anything else. They need to be together.

Ironically, Vincent said, it took experiencing life as a man for her to appreciate being a woman. "I really like being a woman. ... I like it more now because I think it's more of a privilege.

[Dan.Linehan]

Anyone who's not extremely mindful of their conduct, relationships and beliefs will be trampled on in this life, male or female, white or black, poor or rich. Mindfulness matters.

I'm a gay vegan and I'm doing just fine. Most gay men are not doing so well but its mainly because of their conduct. My boss is a lesbian, she's doing great too. The CEO of my company is a middle eastern immigrant. My boyfriend is mixed ethnicity, vegan, pagan and gay. Everyone is happy and healthy.

Minority statuses don't hold you back as much as people want to believe, at least in my experience.

[AnonymousOne]

I think privileges come with both sexes. I don't know if it balances out, but I don't think men have the categorical advantage.

[verbors]

This thread is sexist.

wouldn't this kind of thinking go both ways?

Women seem to have privileges that they take for granted. If they spent a week as a man they'd understand. Some lesbian did this for 20/20 I think, and this was her conclusion;

I agree with this guy. Man have privileges that they take for granted, woman also have privileges that they take for granted. In our ignorance we believe that the other sex is much better.

[Marco Polo]

To a large degree, modern Western feminists are like those Japanese guys in the jungle who didn't know the fight was over.

Once you've won the REAL battles - womens sufferage, equal education etc. - what you have left is peanuts. Boohoo, there aren't enough female construction workers. Waaa!

If there is really is a systematic oppression, it certainly doesn't show up in education. The girls kicked our butts (gradewise) from elementary school all the way up to college. At my uni, the ratio of admission is something like 65% to 35% in favour of females. Yet our generation also has the highest number of Feminazis. How ironic.

If you want to see a real patriachial society, look no further than the Middle East.

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I am not talking about things that can be physically done by a man or woman. I am talking about the way each are seen and valued in society.

If we're talking about feeling valued, this has more to do with self-esteem than male chauvinism.

[Akashic_Librarian]

In my opinion this discussion is a ridiculous one. My head Teacher is a Female...ohh well she probably crys every night wondering if she got there because shes a women...hmm or maybe its because shes damn good at her job! Ohh wait all the senior staff ar emale...hmm wel thats because all the women eligible either declined the job, or have left the school...

Where i work, one of the three managers is a women...why? Because she had sex with the other managers? Because its looks good for the company? No...because she can do her job WELL.

Feminists are no longer to be taken seriously...why? Because they don't want equality, they want inequality, they want women to have all the power and men to be subseervient, why? Bitterness? Jealousy? All percieved, non of it real.

If any woman on this forum thinks than in the modern, western world today that women are disadvantaged when compared to men, need to reassess what century they live in. As MArco Polo said, if you want to stretch your feminist muscles, go to the middle east. If you want to be an object of ridicule amongst your male, and frankly other female colleagues, please, moan and shout and cry, and scream and protest and argue about how the guy in your office earns 5% more than you, but did you ever think maybe he has a different, and more highly paid job?

No one in the world of work, as a whole, is sexist, there maybe the odd one or two, but are you telling me women aren't sexist towards men> Oh no...sorry...women can't be sexist can they. Whiter than white them...

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Erki

Heh. I don't know what I'm aiming to achieve here anyway. Just being idiotic again. Should embrace myself being an RBP - really bad person.

Well, Erki, I never said that you or any man is a bad person. I was simply having a discussion.

Originally Posted by silicon toad2000

What a crock.

Most of the things on that list are delusions, paranoia and the projection of someone's own feelings of inadequacy.

There is a skew of males at the top of the tree; there is also a skew of males at the bottom of the tree. There is a reason for this. The major intelligence gene is on the X chromosome. Women have two so their intelligence is an average of the two (no it’s not the sum of the two). Men only have one and so their intelligence level is dictated only by that one. Because of this, the range of intelligence is broader in males than in females. The lower percentile of males tend to be less intelligent than the lower percentile of females and the higher percentile of males tend to be more intelligent than the higher percentile of females. Jobs at each end of the spectrum tend to be filled by males.

So men are more intelligent than women. Thanks for letting me know.

Originally Posted by missing

This topic makes me angry. Most women who perpetuate the idea of "male privilege" seem to not have a clue what it's like to be a man in today's society. Privilege for men mostly applies to the alpha males, the higher ups of society. The rest of us get ♥♥♥♥♥, yet we are all painted with one big brush.

I don't suppose you know what it's like to be a woman in today's society either.

Originally Posted by missing

Women seem to have privileges that they take for granted.

I am sure that is true. But do you not agree that men have any advantages at all that they also take for granted? I mean why does it have to be one or the other? Both genders have advantages and disadvantages. Erki asked what male privilege was so that is what we have been talking about. It didn't exclude the fact that men also have disadvantages or struggles.

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Anyone who's not extremely mindful of their conduct, relationships and beliefs will be trampled on in this life, male or female, white or black, poor or rich. Mindfulness matters.

I'm a gay vegan and I'm doing just fine. Most gay men are not doing so well but its mainly because of their conduct. My boss is a lesbian, she's doing great too. The CEO of my company is a middle eastern immigrant. My boyfriend is mixed ethnicity, vegan, pagan and gay. Everyone is happy and healthy.

Minority statuses don't hold you back as much as people want to believe, at least in my experience.

Well, in the South I've seen racial discrimination first hand. In some places it's very bad. I am sure most of the things we are talking about vary by region. You and your friends might have a different experience living somewhere else in the country. Then again maybe not. Hey, move to the deep south for me as an experiment .

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

To a large degree, modern Western feminists are like those Japanese guys in the jungle who didn't know the fight was over.

Once you've won the REAL battles - womens sufferage, equal education etc. - what you have left is peanuts. Boohoo, there aren't enough female construction workers. Waaa!

If there is really is a systematic oppression, it certainly doesn't show up in education. The girls kicked our butts (gradewise) from elementary school all the way up to college. At my uni, the ratio of admission is something like 65% to 35% in favour of females. Yet our generation also has the highest number of Feminazis. How ironic.

If you want to see a real patriachial society, look no further than the Middle East.

So I guess it's a matter of degrees. Everyone should just accept whatever is happening since it's not as bad as the Middle East? Do you consider me a Feminazi? Just curious...

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

If we're talking about feeling valued, this has more to do with self-esteem than male chauvinism.

I am not talking about "woe is me I feel undervalued" I am talking about the value society places on men and women.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Because they don't want equality, they want inequality, they want women to have all the power and men to be subseervient, why? Bitterness? Jealousy? All percieved, non of it real.

If any woman on this forum thinks than in the modern, western world today that women are disadvantaged when compared to men, need to reassess what century they live in. As MArco Polo said, if you want to stretch your feminist muscles, go to the middle east. If you want to be an object of ridicule amongst your male, and frankly other female colleagues, please, moan and shout and cry, and scream and protest and argue about how the guy in your office earns 5% more than you, but did you ever think maybe he has a different, and more highly paid job?

No one in the world of work, as a whole, is sexist, there maybe the odd one or two, but are you telling me women aren't sexist towards men> Oh no...sorry...women can't be sexist can they. Whiter than white them...

Well, I certainly don't want to turn the tables to make men subservient. Please don't put ideas in my head or words in my mouth. Not only did I never say that I never even thought it.

In addition, just because it's REALLY bad in the Middle East doesn't mean it's perfect everywhere else.

I also never claimed there are not sexist women.

Well, I don't really know what else to say. All the men have said that there is no such thing as male privilege. I guess that settles it then. Thanks for setting this little woman straight guys. I will just go cry for a while about how ridiculous I've been...

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

I'm a gay vegan and I'm doing just fine. Most gay men are not doing so well but its mainly because of their conduct. My boss is a lesbian, she's doing great too. The CEO of my company is a middle eastern immigrant. My boyfriend is mixed ethnicity, vegan, pagan and gay. Everyone is happy and healthy.

Dan, will you invite me to your next party? This sounds like a fun crowd!!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

You know what men? I was just thinking a little about how activated I've been reading your comments that seem really negative and belittling of women, and I had one of those moments where you see things a little differently.

It looks like we are all fighting about who has it the worst. I can't say that I don't see "male privilege" in the world. Does anyone agree that in the past we were much more like the societies of the Middle East? And that we have made a lot of headway into equality? I agree that things are better for women now than they have ever been (in many parts of the world). I think perhaps many men are afraid the tables will turn too far in the other direction. Of course that is not a fact, just my opinion.

Maybe we can all just try to understand and acknowledge the other side. My last post was kind of snarky, I don't deny that. But we are all humans as someone said. My goal is not to bash men or deny their struggles. I hope that you in turn will not bash me -- or women in general -- or deny the struggles we have had to overcome to be where we are today.

I felt the illusions to whining or Feminazi-ism were examples of how women are seen in this society any time they say something regarding this topic. It feels like it's meant to negate the validity of what is being said in the same way it would if I had said "all you men are just raging about this" or "what a chauvinist." What do you think?

Can we try to understand each other's point of view?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

Dan, will you invite me to your next party? This sounds like a fun crowd!!

Oh, yes, me too. Are Feminazis allowed?

[Joely]

You know, I don't think any of this helps either side. The more we divide ourselves up by whatever means we do, whether it's age, gender, class, ethnicity or religious faith, the more hate, anger and resentment we create. I see here that men hate the fact that they're made to feel attacked for having privileges of which they weren't aware, yet at the same time they're struggling in a social minefield because they never know when they approach a woman if they're going to get their heads bitten off for asking to buy them a drink. And many women feel that they're still struggling to be recognised as human beings without having whatever they dismissed as a. irrational and emotional, or b. an example of a feminazi.

We are all struggling to find our place in this new and evolving society where gender roles and concepts are being changed all the time. I don't think sniping at each other helps us in the slightest - we're just creating more division, more unhappiness and more resentment of the opposite sex.

[Akashic_Librarian]

Ok Aspiring, you make a good point, I gues the subject of gender is a little raw for most of us. Probably because we are so growth oriented, we all saw a piece of us we didn't like and that brought some emotions to the surface.

I admit it, I have a problem with women who attack men for the societal-paradigm we suffer. I don't have a problem with women, and I certainly don't think I am overall a better gender. BUT what I don't understand is why women want to be equal to men?

We emit copious bodily gases
We stink
We grow hair in unwanted places
We get beaten up in clubs for merely "looking"
We have one hell of a time trying to figure out what a women ment when she said *Insert non-descript, random phrase"

So your telling me yo uwant to be equal to THAT?

Nah...Instead of feminists trying to be equal to men, why not forge your own historic image, and leave ours alone.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by missing

Scroll to the end for the most startling;

Wouldn't it be fair to say that the reason that there are so many more men in military quarters is that it's been recent that women were allowed into the military at all. That has traditionally been a male field if there ever was one.

Also, if more men commit crimes there are more men in lockup. But maybe you are saying men are targeted or something. Please elaborate there. Is it similar to how there are a disproportionate number of minorities in prisons?