Oggling While w/ Your Significant Other

[25AndJustBeginning]

I've been reluctant to post about my own issues but I have a situation that I really need some advice about.

Earlier tonite I was eating w/ my girlfriend and we were sitting next to the window. She had just finished mentioning that she was glad that I don't check out other women when we're together (she waits tables and is disgusted w/ guys checking out other women in the presence of the women they're with). Well, when I returned from throwing away my trash I saw that a guy walking by the window caught her attention. I mentioned it to her and she denied it. This is the problem. I'm sure that I saw him catch her attention even tho she denies it. In the past I've second guessed my judgment in her favor but I refuse to do it any more. I'm sure of what I saw. Also, she's habitually hidden things from me to make life easier on herself. She's actually admitted this to me. She used to do this w/ her dad and I truly understand why she does it. However, I refuse to put up w/ it. I'm not sure if that's what she's doing now or if it's all in my head. I truly believe that she just won't admit it because she's protecting herself. Anyway, who do I believe, her or me? I'm really at a loss as for what to do. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thx in advance.

[evrgrn3]

I think you need to have a conversation together about the core of why either of you may look at others even when you have each other.

Prep this by asking her if you can have a discussion together about this topic and make sure the time is right -- if there is discomfort, wait for a better time.

On a piece of paper, write down the answer to this question:

Why do I look at other attractive people even though I am currently in a good relationship?

Keep the initial answer private. Then ask the question "Why" to your first response. Both of you answer the first Why -- keep this private too.

Again, ask the question "Why" to your second response and continue this 3-5 times.

Share the 4th or 5th level down answer to the question with each other and you will have a deeper understanding of what is motivating both of you. If you are really in a good place together emotionally, share all the levels of your answer and talk it through.

Let me know how it goes or if you have any question.

[JimOfferman]

I'm sorry, but getting all worked up about your significant other eying up the competition is just plain stupid. People look around. It's what eyes are meant for. Big chance she's thinking about how favorably you compare when oggling up the other guy... save your energy for actual problems.

[Vasilisa]

You, guys, are too jealous. It's really a silly thing to be upset about.
Though I can say that when I am with a guy, who doesn't stare at other women, I notice and appreciate it. It's a sigh of very good manners and good upbringing to me. But if he does I don't get upset, it's just a comon thing, people look at each other. Besides, it's very pleasant for a woman, when she walks in the room and feels that men look at her; its a good feeling, she feels desirable and attractive. So why not? Why not to let other person to feel good?

[yogesh sarkar]

The problem here is, his girlfriend is kind of being an hypocrite by denouncing guys for doing the same thing as she did.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I personally think it's rude to all out stare at another person when you are with your SO -- male or female -- I think it's just kind and respectful not to go there. I don't see any big deal about noticing other people or even finding them attractive. We all do that whether we admit it or not. The issue does seem to be the hypocritical nature of what your girlfriend did. But for one you don't know that she was in fact oggling him. Her noticing a person walk by is innocuous. When someone passes your field of vision, you generally notice.

And we all also do things to keep ourselves "out of trouble" with our SOs. My ex told me the same thing once...that he doesn't tell me certain things because he didn't want to fight about it. And when I really look at it I don't blame him...I did get overly upset about some stuff and I would have avoided those fights too if I were him.

I am all for honesty and openness in a relationship. But for both people to feel comfortable being open and honest, I think they have to know it's safe....that there won't be a big knock-down, drag-out fight for things like this. Over time my ex began to see that I wanted to have the honesty, and I calmed down on the really inconsequential things I used to fume about (petty, controlling stuff). He was very open with me after that...to the point of giving me more info that I even cared to have.

[alexeleni]

I agree with Aspiring, sometimes in the course of being honest in a relationship you can share things that the other person might not care to know or that make the other person uncomfortable. I think a large part of this discomfort with honesty in relationships is that we are socially conditioned to believe certain things, i.e. men shouldn't look at other women while with their significant other. However, as others have brought up, it is part of human nature to "check out" others, especially when it is a quick, sizing up glance like it seems 25's girlfriend gave to another man. I think that keeping things from a significant other, especially small things like an appraising glance, becomes a part of this social conditioning--we believe that our SO will be offended by behavior that is normal and natural, so we keep that behavior under wraps. Alternatively, we tell our SO about these behaviors and they get upset, due to their social conditioning, rather than accepting of the honesty or behavior.

I think, in regard to 25's dilemma, that his girlfriend probably was not "checking out" or sexualizing the person she glanced at. There is a distinct way that men do this--as someone who also works in hospitality, there are a lot of men who will basically rape you with their eyes or blatantly (and uncomfortably) ogle you even when they are with their wife (or kids!). What your girlfriend was complaining about, 25, does not sound anything remotely like her action of looking at another man.

[Angela]

Both of you seem to have big issues about ogling. Aspiring is right on -- you are being given a huge gift, that you can both now look boldly at what's going on around this issue and talk straight with each other, before it turns into a dealbreaker.

The important thing to remember is, for each of you, it's all 100% your responsibility. If you make it "your fault" or you make it mean there's something wrong with the other person, that's not going to feel good.

[25AndJustBeginning]

At the time it happened I had the idea of checking out others on my mind. When I saw her looking up at a guy I automatically thought that she was checking him out. He probably did just catch her attention and nothing more. However, she adamantly denied even looking up, which she later admitted. The thing that I'm getting close to not tolerating any more is her secrecy & argumentative nature. I understand that there are things that you don't tell yer SO to preserve the relationship. However, I've always been understanding of her and she has no reason to withhold any information. She is absolutely more concerned w/ protecting herself than investing in this relationship, I feel. Just the fact that she wasn't honest about the situation at the time is extremely frustrating. How can you work something out w/ somebody who doesn't remember things accurately/hides information/protects herself??? That is NOT the formula for a deep, meaningful relationship. Also, I'm starting to realize that I second guess myself constantly; w/ friends, at work, just out & about, w/ her and I think she takes advantage of it for her own benefit. I actually convince myself that I'm wrong & she's right in situation's regarding facts not even principle. I'm just losing hope w/ this relationship because she's just not willing to be civil to talk about & work out an issue. Any other input, again, is greatly appreciated. Thx to all for replying.

[25AndJustBeginning]

Another thing I forgot to add... I understand that people look at others. I look. Sometimes just a glance. I'm human. I get it. But she comes off like she doesn't at all, ever, and that it's absurd for me to bring it up. Also, the way she vehemently denied even looking up when I clearly saw her do so supports the idea that she just can't be honest w/ a partner & trust that we can work it out. Not only that but she's so d*** stubborn that I get soooo frustrated dealing w/ her. And her volatile nature... Losing hope here...

Thx again

[mlc82]

IMO, this is good old fashioned human nature. I have a hot girlfriend, and I still love looking at attractive women anyway- and I'd think something was wrong with her if she didn't check out other attractive men! I'll do all the looking I please and it doesn't bother me at all if she does the same, so long as the touching is only for each other

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by 25AndJustBeginning

Another thing I forgot to add... I understand that people look at others. I look. Sometimes just a glance. I'm human. I get it. But she comes off like she doesn't at all, ever, and that it's absurd for me to bring it up. Also, the way she vehemently denied even looking up when I clearly saw her do so supports the idea that she just can't be honest w/ a partner & trust that we can work it out. Not only that but she's so d*** stubborn that I get soooo frustrated dealing w/ her. And her volatile nature... Losing hope here...

Thx again

All you can really do is be straightforward and honest- let her know (assuming you agree) that's it's fine for her to check out others as well. Denying yourself the fun of this, or declaring to your significant other not to, or claiming not to, seems to me like the same level of insanity of claiming you don't breathe, or don't want your partner to.

My girl can get the same way when it comes to sex fantasies- she will deny ever fantasizing about anyone but me, and it drives me nuts! It would actually excite me to hear her talk about it (assuming of course it wasn't with my best male friend, father, or other awkward situation ). It would turn me on IMMENSELY to hear her tell me about fantasies with others that I could imagine her doing. I'm also just not a "jealous" type, figuring if someone wanted to actually leave me/cheat on me for another guy, I'd be better off without them in the long run anyway, so just imagining the above situation doesn't anger me at all, it's just exciting.

I have no problem saying (even to my gf- hey, she ASKED) that I fantasize about sex with other women all of the time, the keyword being FANTASY, not "I'm going to do it in reality behind your back", which I wouldn't. Maybe it's a male thing, but I honestly don't understand the idea of "I find this person very attractive, but don't think of having sex with them"- believe me, if I see an attractive female, I'm going to immediately think of having sex with her So shoot me.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by mlc82

Maybe it's a male thing, but I honestly don't understand the idea of "I find this person very attractive, but don't think of having sex with them"

It's not a male thing

I look at attractive guys and flirt around even when in a relationship and don't mind my bf doing the same. It seems to be just very natural to me. Of course I also have fantasies about others - unless I'm being very much in love and totally focused on that one guy (but that's a temporary state). I find him telling me about his fantasies extremely arousing too, including fantasies about other girls or threesomes. I have fantasies about threesomes or about him having sex with other women myself anyway. So what?

I don't know yet how much of that I could implement in real life, but on the fantasy level it's not a problem.

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

It's not a male thing

I look at attractive guys and flirt around even when in a relationship and don't mind my bf doing the same. It seems to be just very natural to me. Of course I also have fantasies about others - unless I'm being very much in love and totally focused on that one guy (but that's a temporary state). I find him telling me about his fantasies extremely arousing too, including fantasies about other girls or threesomes. I have fantasies about threesomes or about him having sex with other women myself anyway. So what?

I don't know yet how much of that I could implement in real life, but on the fantasy level it's not a problem.

As usual, I think we're twins.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by mlc82

As usual, I think we're twins.

As usual, me too. It's getting boring! I'll have to disagree with you some day just for fun.

[NotesMaeve]

Women generally find Slamhot sexually irresistable and he loves women. Therefore, part of the deal is, he's going to get flirted with and flirt back a bit. I get flirted with and flirt back. Looking isn't a bad thing. There are elements in being with a person that you don't get from flirting; that's what makes it special.

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

As usual, me too. It's getting boring! I'll have to disagree with you some day just for fun.

Better watch out, I can play Devil's Advocate like a pro...

BTW, NotesMaeve, is Slamhot your love interest's forum name, or just a nickname? I've given my girl two, one G rated one ("HLK, or Hot Little Kelli"), and another R rated one that I won't proclaim publicly

[Angela]

It sounds to me like the ogling is just one little symptom of what's really going on, and that is you don't trust her.

And (I'm reading between the lines here), it also sounds like you are making her wrong because you don't trust her. Like: there's something wrong with her, she is unable to be in a loving, long term mutually beneficial relationship (LLTMBR), she is a bad girlfriend, she makes me second-guess myself, she's a liar, she's stubborn and volatile, she can't be honest.... actually, I guess I'm not reading between the lines; you came right out and said these things about her!

So, for living a life you love, you're not in a very powerful position if you make your way of being dependent on the actions, thoughts, or words of another person. There's nothing wrong with your girlfriend. She's perfect exactly as she is, and exactly as she isn't. Either you are willing to accept her exactly as she is, or you're not, and it doesn't mean anything about her. Accepting her does not mean that you condone behavior that doesn't work well in your relationship, but it does mean letting go of making her wrong, and recognizing that you are 100% responsible.

What I mean by 100% responsible is: if you can't or won't trust her, that's not her problem, it's yours -- regardless of all your reasons and evidence against her. 100% responsibility means: change your way of being so that you can relate with her in a way in which you can work towards mutual trust, or let her go with love. But don't blame her. You're just sentencing yourself to resentment and pain, and you'll carry that with you into your next relationship. She is what she is and you can't change her, but you have all the power in the world to change your own way of being, if you want to be in love with your life. And by doing that, you can influence and inspire her.

And....changing your way of being does NOT mean rolling over and urinating on yourself. It does not mean telling yourself, oh, okay, the good outweighs the bad, I'll just rough it out, even though she's basically untrustworthy. No. Changing your way of being (in a way that works well) means looking boldly at what you're currently being, and if it doesn't work, generate something else that inspires you. Inspiration is the key. You've got to figure out what inspires you, but may I suggest looking at trust as a larger issue in your life than just this girl -- where are you stopped regarding trust? It's not about the other person; it's about you. What have you lied about? Where in your life are you being stubborn and volatile and dishonest?

...I don't mean for you to answer these questions to me; I'm just suggesting you look inside for your own deeper truth.

Once you can see the truth of how you are looking into a mirror in this relationship, just like everybody!, you can see the price you're paying for not taking 100% responsibility, and new, inspiring possibilities will arise.

Part of your inspiration may lead to you ending this relationship with love, or it may lead you to start fresh and build trust in a brand new way. And as long as you're holding onto the idea that she is causing you pain, you create your own jail. Break out!

Good luck.

[Vasilisa]

I had the same vibe - you just don't like your girlfriend. Why? - is a different question. May be you don't trust women in general? Or you just want to split with this particular one? Why are you making such a great deal out of nothing? There should be something behind all of this. Think about it.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by mlc82

All
My girl can get the same way when it comes to sex fantasies- she will deny ever fantasizing about anyone but me, and it drives me nuts! It would actually excite me to hear her talk about it (assuming of course it wasn't with my best male friend, father, or other awkward situation ). It would turn me on IMMENSELY to hear her tell me about fantasies with others that I could imagine her doing. I'm also just not a "jealous" type, figuring if someone wanted to actually leave me/cheat on me for another guy,

Hmmm, I'm not like that. I've never been into visualizing my girlfriend or some girl I care about having sex with other guys at all. I guess I don't mind if my girlfriend has these fantasies since her mind is her mind. I also don't have a problem dating girls who are also dating other guys if I'm also dating other girls. However in those cases, I just prefer not knowing any of the details of the sex she has with other guys. When I have a girlfriend, I'm not a jealous man at all. I just don't find it exciting or arousing at all to visualize of a woman I'm emotionally involved with to have sex with another man.

I've had some fantasies in the past, and they've come true, so ummm, I kind of see my fantasies as something I can make true. Even some of my fantasies that seemed to never in a million years have the chance to come true...have come true. So I guess I can't ever see fantasies as just fantasies - but I see them as something that has the possibility of coming true.

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Hmmm, I'm not like that. I've never been into visualizing my girlfriend or some girl I care about having sex with other guys at all. I guess I don't mind if my girlfriend has these fantasies since her mind is her mind. I also don't have a problem dating girls who are also dating other guys if I'm also dating other girls. However in those cases, I just prefer not knowing any of the details of the sex she has with other guys. When I have a girlfriend, I'm not a jealous man at all. I just don't find it exciting or arousing at all to visualize of a woman I'm emotionally involved with to have sex with another man.

I've had some fantasies in the past, and they've come true, so ummm, I kind of see my fantasies as something I can make true. Even some of my fantasies that seemed to never in a million years have the chance to come true...have come true. So I guess I can't ever see fantasies as just fantasies - but I see them as something that has the possibility of coming true.

I honestly never intend to get married, or have some desire to have a lifelong commitment with anyone, and I think that really is what causes me to be excited by thinking that sort of thing- back when I was younger and hadn't realized that I'd probably hang myself after a long enough period of marriage (as cliche as it sounds, before I really "knew myself" I guess) I wouldn't have liked that idea one bit. Strange how that works.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by mlc82

Better watch out, I can play Devil's Advocate like a pro...

BTW, NotesMaeve, is Slamhot your love interest's forum name, or just a nickname? I've given my girl two, one G rated one ("HLK, or Hot Little Kelli"), and another R rated one that I won't proclaim publicly

Nickname! I started calling him "Slamhot Boy" for a reason I can't tell...

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by 25AndJustBeginning

I've been reluctant to post about my own issues but I have a situation that I really need some advice about.

Earlier tonite I was eating w/ my girlfriend and we were sitting next to the window. She had just finished mentioning that she was glad that I don't check out other women when we're together (she waits tables and is disgusted w/ guys checking out other women in the presence of the women they're with). Well, when I returned from throwing away my trash I saw that a guy walking by the window caught her attention. I mentioned it to her and she denied it. This is the problem. I'm sure that I saw him catch her attention even tho she denies it. In the past I've second guessed my judgment in her favor but I refuse to do it any more. I'm sure of what I saw. Also, she's habitually hidden things from me to make life easier on herself. She's actually admitted this to me. She used to do this w/ her dad and I truly understand why she does it. However, I refuse to put up w/ it. I'm not sure if that's what she's doing now or if it's all in my head. I truly believe that she just won't admit it because she's protecting herself. Anyway, who do I believe, her or me? I'm really at a loss as for what to do. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thx in advance.

Who the frig cares?

I actually point out hot women to my husband and his friends. I goof around and lower my glasses and stare when I see one..so they all know she is coming. Or make rarwwr noises. They think it's cool.

Life is too short for such drama.

Jennifer

[25AndJustBeginning]

Don't mean this in a crappy way, but why the... crap... would u encourage yer significant other to look @ other women?? Seriously...

[kpugh]

Question for you - what are you doing to make it "safe" for her to admit that she looks at other guys? If she thinks that there's too much of a risk in being honest with you, why would she be honest? However, if she knows that you'll still love her, and be willing to work through whatever challenges you have together, and that she won't be JUDGED for seeing...I bet she'd more likely be honest with you about it.

From your first post, it really sounds like honesty is more of an issue for you than your observation that she was checking some other guy out.

[Vasilisa]

Originally Posted by 25AndJustBeginning

Don't mean this in a crappy way, but why the... crap... would u encourage yer significant other to look @ other women?? Seriously...

May be so that your significant other felt relaxed and accepted and loved around you? To let her/him know that you are not going to reject or judge him/her because of the behavour which is totally normal and natural for people. To show that you are secure with yourself and trust your partner? You are friends more than anything else?

[25AndJustBeginning]

Originally Posted by kpugh

Question for you - what are you doing to make it "safe" for her to admit that she looks at other guys? If she thinks that there's too much of a risk in being honest with you, why would she be honest? However, if she knows that you'll still love her, and be willing to work through whatever challenges you have together, and that she won't be JUDGED for seeing...I bet she'd more likely be honest with you about it.

From your first post, it really sounds like honesty is more of an issue for you than your observation that she was checking some other guy out.

You're absolutely right, trust & honesty are the bigger issues here. It's not really about looking at another guy. However, it's aggravating that she won't admit it, whatever her motive was.

The truth is, we have many, many issues in our relationship. In fact, I think it's rather unhealthy in maaaaany ways. Neither of us have had good role models for relationships and, I'm beginning to think, don't really know how to do it. W/ all of our issues I'm not sure what is my responsibility and what is hers. We're really not emotionally close & I don't feel like we're good friends. We both realize this and we're trying but I'm not sure if I'm not doing enough or if she's not doing enough. I have, however, realized that I think I put in more effort than her. For instance, when we're at a disagreement she gets really worked up and incredibly irrational whereas I just want to figure it out. I haven't always been calm. We used to have big blow out fights when she still lived w/ me. This all seems kinda scattered but there are a lot of issues that I really need advice on regarding this relationship and I'm really not sure where to begin.

For starters, I'm having trouble understanding the whole "If she's open how will it be received?" thing. Really now??? Well, lemme say that I encourage her to share w/ me. We both realize that we need to share & communicate more but there's still something to be desired. We must not be doing it right or something because I still don't feel close to her. (I think we're both emotionally closed off.) But I think that she may think that I'm going to judge her when she shares something so she censors herself. I guess it seems like she walks on eggshells. I do the same thing. Whenever she wants me to share something potentially upsetting I'm always very careful of what I say and how I say it. Well, I'll cut this off just short of a book. As usual, all feedback & advice is appreciated.

[25AndJustBeginning]

Originally Posted by 25AndJustBeginning

I have, however, realized that I think I put in more effort than her. For instance, when we're at a disagreement she gets really worked up and incredibly irrational whereas I just want to figure it out. I haven't always been calm.

We both used to be really volatile together but I've worked on my end but she's still just as reactionary and volatile as ever. I'm not perfect when it comes to working things out but I'm always the one who has to be the bigger person, put aside my feelings, and stay focused on working out the issue. Last nite she actually asked me during an issue why I wasn't upset. I'm just losing patience having to always be the bigger person and wonder what I should do. Stick it out and work w/ her and hope she gets better or do I move on????

Originally Posted by 25AndJustBeginning

For starters, I'm having trouble understanding the whole "If she's open how will it be received?" thing. Really now???

How do you receive anything well, no matter what? There's a good chance that I prolly won't like what she has to say at some point. So how do I not judge that?????????

[Mato Kinze]

Originally Posted by Angela

It sounds to me like the ogling is just one little symptom of what's really going on, and that is you don't trust her.

And (I'm reading between the lines here), it also sounds like you are making her wrong because you don't trust her. Like: there's something wrong with her, she is unable to be in a loving, long term mutually beneficial relationship (LLTMBR), she is a bad girlfriend, she makes me second-guess myself, she's a liar, she's stubborn and volatile, she can't be honest.... actually, I guess I'm not reading between the lines; you came right out and said these things about her!

So, for living a life you love, you're not in a very powerful position if you make your way of being dependent on the actions, thoughts, or words of another person. There's nothing wrong with your girlfriend. She's perfect exactly as she is, and exactly as she isn't. Either you are willing to accept her exactly as she is, or you're not, and it doesn't mean anything about her. Accepting her does not mean that you condone behavior that doesn't work well in your relationship, but it does mean letting go of making her wrong, and recognizing that you are 100% responsible.

What I mean by 100% responsible is: if you can't or won't trust her, that's not her problem, it's yours -- regardless of all your reasons and evidence against her. 100% responsibility means: change your way of being so that you can relate with her in a way in which you can work towards mutual trust, or let her go with love. But don't blame her. You're just sentencing yourself to resentment and pain, and you'll carry that with you into your next relationship. She is what she is and you can't change her, but you have all the power in the world to change your own way of being, if you want to be in love with your life. And by doing that, you can influence and inspire her.

And....changing your way of being does NOT mean rolling over and urinating on yourself. It does not mean telling yourself, oh, okay, the good outweighs the bad, I'll just rough it out, even though she's basically untrustworthy. No. Changing your way of being (in a way that works well) means looking boldly at what you're currently being, and if it doesn't work, generate something else that inspires you. Inspiration is the key. You've got to figure out what inspires you, but may I suggest looking at trust as a larger issue in your life than just this girl -- where are you stopped regarding trust? It's not about the other person; it's about you. What have you lied about? Where in your life are you being stubborn and volatile and dishonest?

...I don't mean for you to answer these questions to me; I'm just suggesting you look inside for your own deeper truth.

Once you can see the truth of how you are looking into a mirror in this relationship, just like everybody!, you can see the price you're paying for not taking 100% responsibility, and new, inspiring possibilities will arise.

Part of your inspiration may lead to you ending this relationship with love, or it may lead you to start fresh and build trust in a brand new way. And as long as you're holding onto the idea that she is causing you pain, you create your own jail. Break out!

Good luck.

Landmark?

[Jennihul]

Originally Posted by 25AndJustBeginning

The truth is, we have many, many issues in our relationship. In fact, I think it's rather unhealthy in maaaaany ways.

I would never have guessed!

Jennifer