When you know what to do, but you still feel bad.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I've come pretty far since the break up with my ex, but right now I feel myself slipping back.

What do you do when you know the reason for your pain, you have the tools to fix it, you have support and you know it's up to you but you still feel like ****?

The issues I am facing are:

Memories of painful things that happened while we were together that seem to be resurfacing in a big way now.
We've had communication that felt very positive, but now it's slowed. I have feelings about why -- what does it mean? I try to analyze it too much.
When he talks to me he says how much he misses me, how good I was to him, how we are friends, etc. But I still feel like it's fake. And I know that is "I am nothing" talking. I feel good when we talk like everything is fine, but then when I don't hear from him after that I wonder why.

I know that it is none of my business what he does or whether he calls me, etc. I know that I have the responsibility to let go of these fears and pain and generate something better. I know that the things that happened or the things happening now don't mean anything about me. Everyone has their own pain and he could very well be acting out of his. But I still feel bad right now.

I thought it best to be open about all of this in case it may help someone else to see what I'm going through. I see similar situations on the boards and I try to help knowing that in many ways I am talking to myself.

Now I could use your thoughts.

[Angela]

What's so bad about feeling bad?

Whatever you're feeling, you're feeling it; why not give yourself permission to just go with it and see what arises out of it? You're not the sort of person who is in danger of slipping into a self-indulgent pity-party from which you will never emerge. When you're ready, you'll use the tools you have to feel better on purpose.

Surrender and accept. Aren't those two of your new inspiring possibilities? The don't just apply to the sweet stuff, you know.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

What's so bad about feeling bad? .

It feels bad, that's what...

Originally Posted by Angela

Whatever you're feeling, you're feeling it; why not give yourself permission to just go with it and see what arises out of it? You're not the sort of person who is in danger of slipping into a self-indulgent pity-party from which you will never emerge. When you're ready, you'll use the tools you have to feel better on purpose.

Surrender and accept. Aren't those two of your new inspiring possibilities? The don't just apply to the sweet stuff, you know.

That's true. Surrender, acceptance and openness.

I don't want to give audience to all the painful memories that are bombarding me and all the what-ifs that I keep hearing in my mind. But maybe I am fighting them too hard?

[Angela]

Aspiring, you've just helped me realize something for myself, thank you.

The other night, I was feeling BAD after Danger Man called from San Francisco to announce that he was going to see Blade Runner -- without me! Never mind that I'm in L.A. I felt BAD. Blade Runner! the movie we were supposed to see together! Without me, he's going to see it! Grrrr. All my old pain was totally activated.

So I started the process to feel good on purpose, when I realized I didn't want to feel good yet. I wanted to nurture my pain. I felt entitled to it. (I had PMS, by the way ). And fighting it just gave it more power over me anyway. But I also felt I *should* feel good, so I fought with myself, and then I REALLY started to feel bad. I was kind of in a hole, you might say. a toilet hole.

Now, hearing you speak, I see that I squandered the bad feeling that I had wanted to nurture. To really nurture it and get value out of it, it might have worked better for me to just say, yeah, I feel bad, so what? Here I am, feeling bad, doo dah doo dah dooo. and really enjoyed it. It wouldn't have taken more than the evening to let it be what it needed to be; I'm confident that I would have woken up feeling fine anyway. But since I had *wanted* to feel my bad feeling (you know what I mean?), stretching out in it and feeling the *mud* between my toes would have been a great way to get through it effectively, I can see in retrospect.

I hope I remember this episode next time I'm feeling bad and think I *should* feel good.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I've come pretty far since the break up with my ex, but right now I feel myself slipping back.

What do you do when you know the reason for your pain, you have the tools to fix it, you have support and you know it's up to you but you still feel like ****?

The issues I am facing are:

Memories of painful things that happened while we were together that seem to be resurfacing in a big way now.
We've had communication that felt very positive, but now it's slowed. I have feelings about why -- what does it mean? I try to analyze it too much.
When he talks to me he says how much he misses me, how good I was to him, how we are friends, etc. But I still feel like it's fake. And I know that is "I am nothing" talking. I feel good when we talk like everything is fine, but then when I don't hear from him after that I wonder why.

I know that it is none of my business what he does or whether he calls me, etc. I know that I have the responsibility to let go of these fears and pain and generate something better. I know that the things that happened or the things happening now don't mean anything about me. Everyone has their own pain and he could very well be acting out of his. But I still feel bad right now.

I thought it best to be open about all of this in case it may help someone else to see what I'm going through. I see similar situations on the boards and I try to help knowing that in many ways I am talking to myself.

Now I could use your thoughts.

I feel the same way as you - and that's after having talked to Angela! So I'm listening to the advice here just as much as you. And I guess sometimes we just hold on to our pain because we do, that's what we're used to doing. So from one person holding on fast to her pain (knowing she doesn't have to), to another person doing the same, I have to say you're doing OK (even if you don't feel like it right now!).

J x

[Joely]

Originally Posted by Angela

Aspiring, you've just helped me realize something for myself, thank you.

The other night, I was feeling BAD after Danger Man called from San Francisco to announce that he was going to see Blade Runner -- without me! Never mind that I'm in L.A. I felt BAD. Blade Runner! the movie we were supposed to see together! Without me, he's going to see it! Grrrr. All my old pain was totally activated.

Blade Runner! The horror!

Originally Posted by Angela

So I started the process to feel good on purpose, when I realized I didn't want to feel good yet. I wanted to nurture my pain. I felt entitled to it. (I had PMS, by the way ). And fighting it just gave it more power over me anyway. But I also felt I *should* feel good, so I fought with myself, and then I REALLY started to feel bad. I was kind of in a hole, you might say. a toilet hole.

Now, hearing you speak, I see that I squandered the bad feeling that I had wanted to nurture. To really nurture it and get value out of it, it might have worked better for me to just say, yeah, I feel bad, so what? Here I am, feeling bad, doo dah doo dah dooo. and really enjoyed it. It wouldn't have taken more than the evening to let it be what it needed to be; I'm confident that I would have woken up feeling fine anyway. But since I had *wanted* to feel my bad feeling (you know what I mean?), stretching out in it and feeling the *mud* between my toes would have been a great way to get through it effectively, I can see in retrospect.

I hope I remember this episode next time I'm feeling bad and think I *should* feel good.

I think that's what's been going on with me. I've been thinking about it today, and I did come up with this intense feeling of fear, and needing to be safe. At first I kept thinking I should try to feel better and let go, but reading this has made me realise that I'm just falling into old habits and bullying myself for feeling bad. I might have a go at *wanting* my pain for a bit and see if that helps!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Joely

I might have a go at *wanting* my pain for a bit and see if that helps!

Well, I'm not sure I'd recommend wanting your pain! That might be something worth practicing letting go of. *Allowing* it might be a more peaceful approach.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by Angela

Well, I'm not sure I'd recommend wanting your pain! That might be something worth practicing letting go of. *Allowing* it might be a more peaceful approach.

Good point! I'm still working on allowing after a lifetime of crushing it down. Perhaps the reason I hold on tight to it is actually an attempt at suppression. Last night (well, this morning for me) is gradually pulling up a great deal of stuff.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

The thing that makes this hardest is all these random memories of crappy stuff coming back.

I wish I could just Eternal Sunshine this stuff out of my head!

[Joely]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

The thing that makes this hardest is all these random memories of crappy stuff coming back.

I wish I could just Eternal Sunshine this stuff out of my head!

Can you just allow them to be? I get flashbacks from my childhood and from being raped, and I find if I just allow them, they fade away. Sometimes I have to feel the feeling that lies behind them, and then they fade. Or am I just offering the same advice over and over again?

The only other thing worth adding: "This too will pass." It isn't forever.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Joely

Can you just allow them to be? I get flashbacks from my childhood and from being raped, and I find if I just allow them, they fade away. Sometimes I have to feel the feeling that lies behind them, and then they fade. Or am I just offering the same advice over and over again?

The only other thing worth adding: "This too will pass." It isn't forever.

No, I think that's good. I mean when I start to try to analyze what happened back when or try not to think about it it gets worse.

I suppose it would be best to acknowledge the memory and the feeling and it would probably fade faster.

It's something Katie talks about in her books, along the lines of, who is more cruel...the person who hurt you once or you who keep tormenting yourself in your own mind with the story again and again?

That describes me to a T.

[Angela]

Aspiring, how about deliberately taking your thoughts somewhere that inspires you? And when the random memories pop up, just acknowledge them, thank them, and deliberately think thoughts that feel good again? Allow what you're feeling, but also open yourself up to deliberately being the cause of other feelings, too.

Eventually, if you practice that, the good feeling thoughts will get the upper hand, I promise. The old memories will pooter out as they realize they are losing their grip on you because they're being crowded out by new, feeling good memories.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

Aspiring, how about deliberately taking your thoughts somewhere that inspires you? And when the random memories pop up, just acknowledge them, thank them, and deliberately think thoughts that feel good again? Allow what you're feeling, but also open yourself up to deliberately being the cause of other feelings, too.

Eventually, if you practice that, the good feeling thoughts will get the upper hand, I promise. The old memories will pooter out as they realize they are losing their grip on you because they're being crowded out by new, feeling good memories.

Of course that makes a lot of sense, but I am just having trouble finding what to think about instead. I guess it's an issue of sometimes I don't even know what would feel good.

[mncz]

To chime in with these ladies, I want to share what I learned today . I too feel like crap, and today I felt a lot crappier than usual. And at one time today I was standing in station, waiting for my tram and thinking: hey, but I can manifest me feeling good right now, I know I can.

And then I understood that I do not WANT to feel good at this particular time. I want to feel weak, sick and a bit miserable, and when I will be ready to get out of this state, I will. And so I surrendered to and accepted me being weak, sick and a bit miserable.

There is a deeply ingrained belief in our culture that being weak or sad or otherwise unproductive is morally bad or "not enlightened" or whatever. Well, it is not. It has taken me a long time to understand the truth that there must be both bad and good days in every persons life and it is only normal that you feel any way you do, as long as you don't turn it into a lifetime of doom and gloom, which is certainly not your case.

Love and best wishes,
mncz

[Joely]

And it occurred to me suddenly, when I read Angela's advice about thinking something positive, I don't even know how to think something positive, not without instantly dismissing it as nonsense and "unrealistic." Wow. I never realised that before.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Joely

And it occurred to me suddenly, when I read Angela's advice about thinking something positive, I don't even know how to think something positive, not without instantly dismissing it as nonsense and "unrealistic." Wow. I never realised that before.

Yeah, that's what I meant too. Even if I think something good a "but so-and-so happened and that means you suck" kind of thought comes next.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by mncz

There is a deeply ingrained belief in our culture that being weak or sad or otherwise unproductive is morally bad or "not enlightened" or whatever. Well, it is not. It has taken me a long time to understand the truth that there must be both bad and good days in every persons life and it is only normal that you feel any way you do, as long as you don't turn it into a lifetime of doom and gloom, which is certainly not your case.

Yes, sometimes I do feel like I "should" be past the point of having bad days what with all the blessings I have and everything I've learned. I should be better than this. But the truth is this is where I am and the sooner I accept it the sooner I can improve it.

Sometimes I feel bad because he seems to be doing just dandy and I am still sad.

[Honeywith4bees]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Sometimes I feel bad because he seems to be doing just dandy and I am still sad.

Something I learned from Al Anon, often times we compare how we are feeling on the inside with how someone else looks on the outside. In other words, we tend to put out our brave face for the world to see even when we feel awful inside. You're ex may be having the same thoughts about you!

Has giving away the dog reactivated some of this pain for you?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Honeywith4bees

Something I learned from Al Anon, often times we compare how we are feeling on the inside with how someone else looks on the outside. In other words, we tend to put out our brave face for the world to see even when we feel awful inside. You're ex may be having the same thoughts about you!

You know I've thought that may be true. It's not that I really want him suffering, not at all. I guess it's just the feeling that it's so easy for him to walk away. But I am remembering how in other instances he did hide how he was feeling. And once he even said "just because I don't wear everything on my sleeve like you do doesn't mean I don't feel it." Thanks for reminding me.

Originally Posted by Honeywith4bees

Has giving away the dog reactivated some of this pain for you?

You know, I think so. That was so hard in and of itself and it was just one more "proof" that we are through. A lot has happened in a short period of time and I've had it all in my face to deal with...moving, selling my grandma's house, giving up dogs all of it magnifying what I feel about the breakup because it's all related.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Joely

And it occurred to me suddenly, when I read Angela's advice about thinking something positive, I don't even know how to think something positive, not without instantly dismissing it as nonsense and "unrealistic." Wow. I never realised that before.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about positive thinking when I talk about deliberately thinking thoughts that feel good when you think them. The Little Train that Could mentality (Buck up!) doesn't work for me in living a life I love. But deliberately changing your thoughts to give yourself a little relief really does work for me. This might look more like, "I feel bad right now, and I'm ok. -- I'm ok, and I have the tools to feel better on purpose when I'm ready. -- When I'm ready, I'm really pretty powerful. I will be ready when I'm ready. I look forward to that." You know, which is quite different from, "I feel good! I have what I want now! Things are peachy!"

One gives me a little relief, and the other feeds my gremlin. He sits there smiling, gleefully rubbing his hands together and saying, "oh no you don't!" and feeling his power grow.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by Angela

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about positive thinking when I talk about deliberately thinking thoughts that feel good when you think them. The Little Train that Could mentality (Buck up!) doesn't work for me in living a life I love. But deliberately changing your thoughts to give yourself a little relief really does work for me. This might look more like, "I feel bad right now, and I'm ok. -- I'm ok, and I have the tools to feel better on purpose when I'm ready. -- When I'm ready, I'm really pretty powerful. I will be ready when I'm ready. I look forward to that." You know, which is quite different from, "I feel good! I have what I want now! Things are peachy!"

One gives me a little relief, and the other feeds my gremlin. He sits there smiling, gleefully rubbing his hands together and saying, "oh no you don't!" and feeling his power grow.

That's a relief. I know I can do that type of thinking.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about positive thinking when I talk about deliberately thinking thoughts that feel good when you think them. The Little Train that Could mentality (Buck up!) doesn't work for me in living a life I love. But deliberately changing your thoughts to give yourself a little relief really does work for me. This might look more like, "I feel bad right now, and I'm ok. -- I'm ok, and I have the tools to feel better on purpose when I'm ready. -- When I'm ready, I'm really pretty powerful. I will be ready when I'm ready. I look forward to that." You know, which is quite different from, "I feel good! I have what I want now! Things are peachy!"

One gives me a little relief, and the other feeds my gremlin. He sits there smiling, gleefully rubbing his hands together and saying, "oh no you don't!" and feeling his power grow.

Isn't that a process from Ask and It Is Given? I need to get that book apparently.

[Angela]

I guess that's built into that book, which I'm surprised you haven't read yet! But in "The Astonishing Power of Emotions" they really go much deeper into the particular concept of "going downstream" -- that is, thinking thoughts that give you a little relief, putting down your paddle for awhile and let the river take you where it's going. "Nothing you want is upstream, anyway."

It might make more sense for you if you read Ask and It is Given first. You'll come across that delicious line I love so much: "Deliberately think thoughts that feel good when you think them" in there.

[Joely]

I think MNCZ has a wonderful point. We have this feeling that if we're feeling bad, there's something critical wrong, that we're failing somehow. I've noticed that since I began the process of recovery from anorexia and depression, it's an easy mindset to slip into, that you have to feel good all the time. Then I noticed it when I was looking at reviews of things like Holosync and the Sedona Method - people expected to feel happy instantly, to escape "negative" feelings. We get this idea that when we reach enlightenment we'll feel happy all the time. Not only that, but we beat ourselves up for not feeling magically better when something happens. It's no wonder PD and self-help has so many junkies, looking for the happy fix.

Aspiring, have you read any Pema Chodron? She's lovely, and one of the things she says is that it isn't about feeling happy or getting over anything. I got very into Buddhism and Zen last year, and one of the Zen ideas is that everything is Buddha nature. So when you feel angry, that's Buddha angry, or when you're sad, Buddha sad. The difference in feeling Buddha angry or Buddha sad is that you don't identify or cling to the feeling, but just acknowledge and let it go. Anyway, have a read of When Things Fall Apart.

Sorry, I think I'm rambling now.

Oops...

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Joely

Aspiring, have you read any Pema Chodron? She's lovely, and one of the things she says is that it isn't about feeling happy or getting over anything. I got very into Buddhism and Zen last year, and one of the Zen ideas is that everything is Buddha nature. So when you feel angry, that's Buddha angry, or when you're sad, Buddha sad. The difference in feeling Buddha angry or Buddha sad is that you don't identify or cling to the feeling, but just acknowledge and let it go. Anyway, have a read of When Things Fall Apart.

Yep, I've got Comfortable With Uncertainty and When Things Fall Apart...both excellent. Those two along with The Power of Now, A New Earth and Byron Katie's books are on constant rotation at my house! But I think that's part of the reason I feel like I should be further than I am by now... . I mean, look at all the amazing knowledge I have from these things.

I know that's still bologna, but the feeling is there.

[Angela]

What was that great Pema Chodron line about: the current moment is the perfect teacher, and fortunately it's always with me. I love that!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Joely

Sorry, I think I'm rambling now.

Oops...

Not at all!! In my threads at least the goal is for anyone and everyone to say what they need to and get what they can out of it. Every viewpoint and all rambling or ranting or venting is not only acceptable it's expected. It's how we all grow.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Yep, I've got Comfortable With Uncertainty and When Things Fall Apart...both excellent. Those two along with The Power of Now, A New Earth and Byron Katie's books are on constant rotation at my house! But I think that's part of the reason I feel like I should be further than I am by now... . I mean, look at all the amazing knowledge I have from these things.

I know that's still bologna, but the feeling is there.

You're a big Shoulder!

Should, should, should. You little rabbit, when will you be willing to realize you are absolutely perfect, whole and complete, exactly as you are and exactly as you are not?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

You're a big Shoulder!

Should, should, should. You little rabbit, when will you be willing to realize you are absolutely perfect, whole and complete, exactly as you are and exactly as you are not?

It's realized to an extent, but that deep down little voice still tries to make waves. It's that little voice saying should. I actually know better, but the voice still likes to mess with me.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Yep, I've got Comfortable With Uncertainty and When Things Fall Apart...both excellent. Those two along with The Power of Now, A New Earth and Byron Katie's books are on constant rotation at my house! But I think that's part of the reason I feel like I should be further than I am by now... . I mean, look at all the amazing knowledge I have from these things.

I know that's still bologna, but the feeling is there.

Isn't that what they call shoulding on yourself?

Damn, I should be better than this! Damn, I should be over this! And we look at the books we've read about accepting ourselves as we are and promptly DON'T follow the advice! Don't worry, I'm doing it too with other issues in my life.

Another one to try is Tara Brach's "Radical Acceptance".

I'm so excited because I ordered Byron Katie's "I Need Your Love" and it should be here next week.