When you know what to do, but you still feel bad.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Okay, one more thing. Have you had that feeling that someone helps you feel better just by being there? I feel very calm when I talk to him. It feels like everything else melts away in that moment. Just like when we were together and I would have a bad day at work...when I got home and he gave me a big hug it was as if it never happened. I felt instantly calmer.

Is that just using another person as an excuse not to handle things yourself? Or is that just natural with human interaction?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

The Chicken Diva is just a teeny, tiny part of who you are. She is the brawk-thoughts, and who you are is the observer of those brawk-thoughts. She's what Eckhart Tolle calls the "ego". She is like a potent cocktail. You ingest her and she becomes a little portion of what makes up You, and she intoxicates you and has you see and experience the world differently, temporarily, and maybe you get a Chicken Diva Hangover of the pain of that temporary experience. And you, the observer, is aware that she's brawking, yes? The Chicken Diva wants to run the show, and she will if you let her run rampant, free of the awareness of You the observer. The more you think the anguish and the despair is Who You Are, the more power you grant to the Chicken Diva.

Sometime in the future, this particular song she's singing will be a distant memory, and you'll grin at how much power she had over you. If you practice being aware, being the observer, you'll see that she's always singing, and her song is not Who You Are. If you don't practice being aware, then that song will be blaring all day and all night, like the ghost in Ghost singing "I'm Henery the Eighth Iyam, Henery the Eighth Iyam, Iyam." And you'll be Whoopi Goldberg, praying for relief and acting desparately to save yourself.

(speaking of which, sad about Patrick Swayze's illness, huh?)

Well, I know she is brawking, yes. And I know that is not who I really am. That much I know. Being aware and not letting that song have power over me has exactly what effect on my interaction and choices where he or other people are concerned? That is the part I get stuck on. I can sometimes be aware of the squawking and observe it, but, well I don't even know what I am asking.

And I heard about Swayze, but the thing I saw said it wasn't confirmed. If it's true that is so sad.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Yeah, my first thought was "I don't know how." I guess I am not sure what the habitual thoughts are. And I am always feeling unsure as to whether I *should* or *shouldn't* be talking to him or wanting to talk to him.

And I may be doing some of that during the call, but I feel really relaxed when I am actually talking to him and try to stay in the moment and not let stuff swirl in my head.

I think the habitual thinking is the stuff around "what's he doing?"/"is he over me?" and anything else you think like that. You know how you have it running on a track at the back of your mind? It's when you stop and look at it, that makes you realise you're thinking it. Does that make any sense whatsoever?

I'm trying to learn the same thing at the moment with an entirely different area of my life. It's a tough one!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Joely

I think the habitual thinking is the stuff around "what's he doing?"/"is he over me?" and anything else you think like that. You know how you have it running on a track at the back of your mind? It's when you stop and look at it, that makes you realise you're thinking it. Does that make any sense whatsoever?

I'm trying to learn the same thing at the moment with an entirely different area of my life. It's a tough one!

Sure, that makes complete sense. I always like to know exaclty what it is I am up against so I know which battle to fight. But that's probably just more habitual thinking too .

I guess knowing about those habitual thoughts and observing them instead of letting them take over is the goal. But then I wonder what I will do when I come in contact with him without any past or any story about us. What will I have to go on? How can I know what the next move is?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Well, I know she is brawking, yes. And I know that is not who I really am. That much I know. Being aware and not letting that song have power over me has exactly what effect on my interaction and choices where he or other people are concerned?

You KNOW it, but are you AWARE of it? What I mean is, is knowing that there is a thinker of your thoughts, and an Observer of that thinker, an intellectual knowledge, or are you actually experiencing the observation of the thinking of your thoughts? Just observing the thinker, being aware (not "knowing"), dissipates the ego's power over you. You don't have to "do" anything. And as that power lessens (the song gets less loud in your ears), your choices are made in pure awareness, rather than in the drunkenness of your thoughts.

It sounds pretty whooo-whooo, I recognize, but it's really a very practical and instantaneous thing, not magical or new-agey. I forget, Aspiring; have you read the Power of Now yet?

[Joely]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Sure, that makes complete sense. I always like to know exaclty what it is I am up against so I know which battle to fight. But that's probably just more habitual thinking too .

I guess knowing about those habitual thoughts and observing them instead of letting them take over is the goal. But then I wonder what I will do when I come in contact with him without any past or any story about us. What will I have to go on? How can I know what the next move is?

All you can trust that you'll know in the moment because you can't know now what's going to happen. Not unless you're Nostradamus, of course. That last bit was more habitual thinking.

I've broken contact altogether with my exes. But they weren't the kind of people I wanted to keep around anyway, so I didn't have these issues.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

You KNOW it, but are you AWARE of it? What I mean is, is knowing that there is a thinker of your thoughts, and an Observer of that thinker, an intellectual knowledge, or are you actually experiencing the observation of the thinking of your thoughts? Just observing the thinker, being aware (not "knowing"), dissipates the ego's power over you. You don't have to "do" anything. And as that power lessens (the song gets less loud in your ears), your choices are made in pure awareness, rather than in the drunkenness of your thoughts.

It sounds pretty whooo-whooo, I recognize, but it's really a very practical and instantaneous thing, not magical or new-agey. I forget, Aspiring; have you read the Power of Now yet?

I think it is more of an intellectual knowledge at the moment. I have had times where I was really aware and experiencing the observation of the thinking of my thoughts. And it does feel different from just knowing there is something other than my thoughts. I feel like lately I have been knowing there is something other and feeling like I should be able to "rise above" but haven't actually been practicing being present.

I have read the Power of Now. And right around that time had some really powerful experiences with awareness. But I guess in the midst of everything going on I just gave over to the thought process instead of staying present.

So I guess the question then is are there no longer any real choices to make when you are living in each moment? I mean, do they just arise naturally? Like if I am talking to him and he asks if I want to get together I will just answer from what is true and aware in me at the time? I won't have to entertain any past events or their bearing on that decision? I don't have to wonder what will happen as a result of the decision?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Joely

All you can trust that you'll know in the moment because you can't know now what's going to happen. Not unless you're Nostradamus, of course. That last bit was more habitual thinking.

I've broken contact altogether with my exes. But they weren't the kind of people I wanted to keep around anyway, so I didn't have these issues.

I can certainly understand breaking all contact. I understand the value of it in many situations. For us, being friends first I would like to be able to maintain that. Our families have known each other for a long time. We get along really well and have a great time together. There was no huge disasterous reason we split. I think it had more to do with him feeling confused and not sure about being in the relationship. I don't have hard feelings toward him for the break up. I feel that I can understand the reasons. He is someone I would have in my life now anyway had we never had the romantic relationship. It does change the dynamics I guess.

But I feel like there is more to come with us in one way or another. Still maybe that is misguided, I don't know.

[Angela]

Yeah, "knowing" it doesn't make any difference, does it! It's like knowing that you'll lose weight if you eat less and exercise more. Well, great, we all know that -- but knowing it doesn't really make a whole lot of difference. We still struggle to lose weight.

If I were you, I would keep The Power of Now handy and dip into it to generate being awake and aware consciousness, and give yourself a little relief from the incessant chicken chatter.

The thing is, you get caught up in the content of the chicken chatter, and it makes it so hard, impossible even, for you to see a way out ("I don't know how to DO that!!") like that little chinese finger-trap. Practicing awareness now is like relaxing your fingers, and the trap loosens up and slides off. When you practice awareness (as opposed to just "knowing" about awareness) you let go of the focus on the content, and you see that you can't really make a wrong choice. No choice you make will diminish you. Nothing can be taken away from you or make you less or worse. Who you are, you are aware when you are aware, is just "playing" so to speak with these thoughts that seem so all-consuming and essential, like, "what is he thinking? does he love me? does he want to get back together? what does it all mean? what should I do next? how do I know what to do? will I ever really be happy? will I ever be loved? brawk."

The questions feel very real and very important to you because you're focusing on them as content, as who you essentially are. And as long as you focus on them, that's how life will occur for you. When you focus on something else, how your life occurs for you will transform. And again, I'm not talking about some after-death sort of guru consciousness, I'm talking about very practical, day-to-day awareness that is possible for you TODAY if you're willing to take it on.

I can't generate that awareness for you, but my experience is that reading that book and giving it your real attention makes it very easy to generate awareness in the moment. I strongly suggest to you that you give yourself some meditation time, and some time to open up that book at random, read a page or two, and give yourself permission to experience the moment. If not this book, then find another way to shift your awareness from the content of the chicken opera. Move yourself, so that you have a new point of view. It doesn't even matter what the point of view is, it's just important for you to experience (not just "know") that the one you're trapping yourself in is not the only one. Right now you're staying in the same place, consciously speaking. All you've got to do is shift a little if you want to feel good.

Another great way to shift your point of view is the Landmark Forum, by the way. I hope you are keeping that in the back of your mind as a possibility.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Wow, thanks. That really answers my questions. And I know you have also told me all of this before. It comes down to making the decision and effort to read it again and live in the now rather than give so much credence to the mind chatter going on.

So much of the time it feels strongly that the questions in my head are important and that it does matter one way or the other what choice I make or how other people perceive my choice -- him, family, friends. I get very caught up in thinking that I can in fact be diminished by something I do or some wrong choice I make. But I know there is something beyond that. I guess it's seeing the difference between the natural "real world" concequences of an action and the deeper okay-ness that will always be there no matter what happens in life. And now I get to actually experience the awareness of that instead of blocking myself from it with all my knowledge and questions.

Great analogy about knowing if you eat well and exercise you will lose weight. Doesn't do you any good! I have placed a lot of stake in knowing stuff. And where has that gotten me?

[Angela]

Yup. "Figuring things out" is a great way to live in your head!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

So now I have another question.

Sometimes we advise people to cut off contact or leave a relationship or what have you. How does that fit in? If it doesn't matter which choice I make then doesn't it not matter for the other people as well?

[Joely]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

So now I have another question.

Sometimes we advise people to cut off contact or leave a relationship or what have you. How does that fit in? If it doesn't matter which choice I make then doesn't it not matter for the other people as well?

You can only do what you feel is best for you. I think our situations are very different, to be honest. I was dealing with somebody who was abusive and destructive in my life and he had to be forced by people other than me and told to leave me alone. In the second case, we just had nothing in common and there was no friendship to maintain.

As has just been pointed out to me though, when I was advising you, I was actually advising myself about a completely different familial relationship I've been struggling with over the last year. So feel free to ignore my advice - I meant it for me and didn't realise at the time!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Joely

You can only do what you feel is best for you. I think our situations are very different, to be honest. I was dealing with somebody who was abusive and destructive in my life and he had to be forced by people other than me and told to leave me alone. In the second case, we just had nothing in common and there was no friendship to maintain.

As has just been pointed out to me though, when I was advising you, I was actually advising myself about a completely different familial relationship I've been struggling with over the last year. So feel free to ignore my advice - I meant it for me and didn't realise at the time!

Well, don't we always mean our advice to others for ourselves? I don't discount your advice in any case, others have told me the same actually. And I was referring more to what we all tell people in other threads too. I guess there is definitely a time when it is a better choice to cut off all contact, certainly in cases of abuse. I didn't mean my question to call into question what you specifically had said...I hope it didn't come off rudely!

Maybe the situation I am in is one of those grey areas where it's more doing what feels comfortable until it doesn't anymore. It may just be that this kind of situation, where there is still mutual liking and no trauma, that the only thing that matters is generating good stuff and seeing where it goes?

And I guess that's really the question I am asking. Is the advice different for me for some reason? Or is this the advice we'd give anyone in my same situation? Is the main issue for me one of being in the now and aware rather than some inherant problem with the relationship? If another poster was having issue with a relationship with the history of mine would we say the same things? Along those lines...

[Angela]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

So now I have another question.

Sometimes we advise people to cut off contact or leave a relationship or what have you. How does that fit in? If it doesn't matter which choice I make then doesn't it not matter for the other people as well?

Who are you calling "we", kimosabe? I feel pretty comfortable strongly advising anyone who is in an abusive relationship to remove themselves, because their chicken chatter is usually making them blind to the fact that they are in real, physical danger. People in that trap don't need any pussyfootin' -- they need a loud, clear warning (in my view, anyway.)

Everybody else -- well, the chicken chatter still blinds us to reality, and I think the key is waking up. Get quiet, open your eyes and your mind, see what there is to see. And make your choice based on reality, rather than on all the stories you tell yourself about reality. You may see that you need some time and space to get clear so that you'll be able to be really present to him when you do speak. Or maybe not. Either way, there are very few things you can do that can't be undone. Give yourself permission to make mistakes, cuz you're gonna anyway. And as things come up that aren't working for you, correct your course. And when things are working, give yourself permission to expand and enjoy. That's all part of being here now.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

Who are you calling "we", kimosabe? I feel pretty comfortable strongly advising anyone who is in an abusive relationship to remove themselves, because their chicken chatter is usually making them blind to the fact that they are in real, physical danger. People in that trap don't need any pussyfootin' -- they need a loud, clear warning (in my view, anyway.)

When I say "we" I mean all of the regulars on the forum who go in with advice on relationship threads.

And I DEFINITELY agree that any abuse is a clear get out now sign and should be treated as such. I don't dispute that advice at all ever!

I was talking more about the "everybody else."

Originally Posted by Angela

Everybody else -- well, the chicken chatter still blinds us to reality, and I think the key is waking up. Get quiet, open your eyes and your mind, see what there is to see. And make your choice based on reality, rather than on all the stories you tell yourself about reality. You may see that you need some time and space to get clear so that you'll be able to be really present to him when you do speak. Or maybe not. Either way, there are very few things you can do that can't be undone. Give yourself permission to make mistakes, cuz you're gonna anyway. And as things come up that aren't working for you, correct your course. And when things are working, give yourself permission to expand and enjoy. That's all part of being here now.

That is what I was going for I guess. The idea that we could tell anyone in any relationship advice to get clear about reality and wake up and make the choice from there. I suppose all of the other advice is just us seeing how the reality looks from outside (where it may be easier to separate reality from the story) and giving thoughts based from there.

So the gist is go with the flow from a place of awareness and correct course as necessary? I guess in a state of present moment awareness you will naturally move in the direction you need to go. People will be in your life when you need them and gone when you don't.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

People will be in your life when you need them and gone when you don't.

Right. How do you know you need them to be there? Because they're there. How do you know you don't need them to be there? Because they're not there. And it doesn't mean anything about you.

And you know that I feel that there's something way more important than the direction I'm heading if I want to be in love with my life. Yup, it's who I'm being.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

And you know that I feel that there's something way more important than the direction I'm heading if I want to be in love with my life. Yup, it's who I'm being.

Yep, that's one that I am really trying to just get into my thick skull. If I am being who I want to be then the rest seems like it would just naturally fall into place.

And it wouldn't matter to me so much what anyone else thought about me or my situation because I would be living a life I love.

See, I think I get the point, it just takes me shutting off all the squawking to remember I already know it.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

Right. How do you know you need them to be there? Because they're there. How do you know you don't need them to be there? Because they're not there. And it doesn't mean anything about you.

I have been feeling like there is still some reason he's in my life, some purpose for us still being in contact. I just want to stop trying to figure out the reason and let him be there or not according to what's "right." I assume the real reasons aren't usually visible until after the fact anyway!