When you know what to do, but you still feel bad.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by Angela

You're a big Shoulder!

Should, should, should. You little rabbit, when will you be willing to realize you are absolutely perfect, whole and complete, exactly as you are and exactly as you are not?

Damn, we posted the same thing at the same time

I have to say actually, I'm doing quite well this evening. I'm quite relaxed for once!

I worked out one of the reasons I've been holding onto my pain was the safety thing. Safety turned out to be such a massive, massive issue. That's something I can work with, though.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Joely

Another one to try is Tara Brach's "Radical Acceptance".

I have it on hold with the library after your recommendation!

Originally Posted by Joely

I'm so excited because I ordered Byron Katie's "I Need Your Love" and it should be here next week.

That book will blow your mind. For serious.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I have it on hold with the library after your recommendation!



That book will blow your mind. For serious.

I forgot I already recommended it to you! I'm really excited. I found Byron Katie through somebody here recommending it to somebody else. Sometimes I just watch the videos to feel better. It makes so much sense. I've even recommended it to my hypnotherapist and she's excited to add it into her coaching.

[Ree]

Aspiring, how lucky you are to have all these wonderful posters to support you and love you through this time...... How can you be anything less than a whole and perfect being in a perfect universe?

I'd like to add one thought and that is you are still in the grieving process for your lost relationship. Eventually the same memories that make your heart hurt and bring you to tears now will make you smile with fond remembrance

[dancer]

Hi Aspiring. I love your posts, I learn so much from them. That must sound horrible when you are feeling pain... sorry.

This past weekend I had some stuff come up from a relationship that ended two years ago. He cheated and it really destroyed me. When this stuff came up, I felt very much like you do just know. I beat myself up for feeling sad and that enough time had gone so why the hell was I still feeling like shite about the whole thing etc. Then I decided to surrender to it. And using my learning from Tolle, I felt it without attaching my poor old me story to it. My sadness didn't disappear immediately, but gradually I let go of it and felt sooooo empowered.

I agree with Ree. You are still in the grieving period, so please have patience and keep doing what you are doing. Look at that "I am nothing" you mentioned earlier in this thread.

Lots of love

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Ree

I'd like to add one thought and that is you are still in the grieving process for your lost relationship. Eventually the same memories that make your heart hurt and bring you to tears now will make you smile with fond remembrance

Well, I already have a bunch of thoughts that make me smile. The problem is the ones that are painful because of "bad" stuff that happened which my mind is still trying to figure out I guess. Things that hurt really badly that make me question whether he ever loved me at all. I have some really bad memories and some really good memories...and it seems like they are fighting. But I do see what you mean, and I definitely feel like I have stopped and started with the grieving process and need to just let it happen.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by dancer

Hi Aspiring. I love your posts, I learn so much from them. That must sound horrible when you are feeling pain... sorry.

Not at all. I learn from other people's posts too and I think it's the value of being open with each other.

Originally Posted by dancer

This past weekend I had some stuff come up from a relationship that ended two years ago. He cheated and it really destroyed me. When this stuff came up, I felt very much like you do just know. I beat myself up for feeling sad and that enough time had gone so why the hell was I still feeling like shite about the whole thing etc. Then I decided to surrender to it. And using my learning from Tolle, I felt it without attaching my poor old me story to it. My sadness didn't disappear immediately, but gradually I let go of it and felt sooooo empowered.

I agree with Ree. You are still in the grieving period, so please have patience and keep doing what you are doing. Look at that "I am nothing" you mentioned earlier in this thread.

Lots of love

That must have felt very bad, but I am glad that you were able to surrender it and gain a sense of empowerment. I have waves where I am feeling so free and fine and then waves where I feel so lost and scared. I am hoping we both experience the good waves!

I really thought I had squashed "I am nothing" but that is misguided. Although I can rationally see the cost of it in my life and consciously generate better, more inspiring ways of being it doesn't disappear after 23 years of ingraining itself in my life. It is trying to hold on and fighting very powerfully with weapons that especially hurt since it knows my weaknesses.

Part of the issue is that I think I am still waiting for him to prove that I am not nothing instead of doing it for myself. A part of me feels it's only valid if it comes from outside which is completely backwards!

[Ree]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I really thought I had squashed "I am nothing" but that is misguided. Although I can rationally see the cost of it in my life and consciously generate better, more inspiring ways of being it doesn't disappear after 23 years of ingraining itself in my life. It is trying to hold on and fighting very powerfully with weapons that especially hurt since it knows my weaknesses.

Part of the issue is that I think I am still waiting for him to prove that I am not nothing instead of doing it for myself. A part of me feels it's only valid if it comes from outside which is completely backwards!

It's your ego having a last gasp at trying to survive!

And about it being completely backwards, for me a huge part of the work has been turning everything in my life upside down and inside out and seeing how that fits... it always fits better

[Joely]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Well, I already have a bunch of thoughts that make me smile. The problem is the ones that are painful because of "bad" stuff that happened which my mind is still trying to figure out I guess. Things that hurt really badly that make me question whether he ever loved me at all. I have some really bad memories and some really good memories...and it seems like they are fighting. But I do see what you mean, and I definitely feel like I have stopped and started with the grieving process and need to just let it happen.

Does it matter if he didn't love you, at this stage? It looks like relationship analytics to me. We go over things again and again and recast them with different meanings depending on how we're feeling. "He never loved me" How does that feel? Does it matter?

I'm saying this because it reminds me of something I've gone through over being anorexic. I felt as though I'd wasted a huge amount of time on it, you know, all those years of really, truly believing thin would make me an acceptable person. And we do that, we look at our pasts and re-assess them over and over with new meaning. But you can't ever be sure of memory, of what was Real at that time, because of all these meanings we dump on events. Besides, it happened. It's passed on now.

The sistah in me wants to say if he never loved you he needed to be slapped with a wet fish. The slightly wiser side of me says that if he didn't, he wasn't meant to, and that he was just doing his job, just as you're doing your job right now thinking about it. And what a tremendous growth experience you're getting from the end of this relationship - all the reassessing you're doing, all the evolving you're doing. And even better, sharing it here means I get to nod my head and understand things about me and doubtless loads of other people are gaining and learning.

Wow, you're doing so much here. And you thought you were just feeling bad today.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Ree

It's your ego having a last gasp at trying to survive!

And about it being completely backwards, for me a huge part of the work has been turning everything in my life upside down and inside out and seeing how that fits... it always fits better

I am looking forward to finding the right fit!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Joely

Does it matter if he didn't love you, at this stage? It looks like relationship analytics to me. We go over things again and again and recast them with different meanings depending on how we're feeling. "He never loved me" How does that feel? Does it matter?

I'm saying this because it reminds me of something I've gone through over being anorexic. I felt as though I'd wasted a huge amount of time on it, you know, all those years of really, truly believing thin would make me an acceptable person. And we do that, we look at our pasts and re-assess them over and over with new meaning. But you can't ever be sure of memory, of what was Real at that time, because of all these meanings we dump on events. Besides, it happened. It's passed on now.

The sistah in me wants to say if he never loved you he needed to be slapped with a wet fish. The slightly wiser side of me says that if he didn't, he wasn't meant to, and that he was just doing his job, just as you're doing your job right now thinking about it. And what a tremendous growth experience you're getting from the end of this relationship - all the reassessing you're doing, all the evolving you're doing. And even better, sharing it here means I get to nod my head and understand things about me and doubtless loads of other people are gaining and learning.

Wow, you're doing so much here. And you thought you were just feeling bad today.

I guess it feels like it matters, but maybe not. I mean there is good out of it regardless. And there were many, many times when actually in it that I felt certain he loved me...it just seemed so obvious. But you can't ever really know what another person is feeling or thinking so I guess it's best not to try so hard to figure it out. He would say that he definitely loved me. And I do think it's possible for someone to love you and also do things that really hurt. I know I really love him and I did some things that hurt him a great deal as well.

The part about recasting things depending on how we are feeling is very true. Some events that don't bother me one day will be the evidence it was all a sham the next day. It really goes to show the futility of it all.

[Angela]

I used to ask Mr. HeroinAddictedMarginalRockstar if he loved me, and he would reply, "what IS love, anyway?" which drove me crazy, of course. Now in retrospect I can see he had a point. Whatever he felt about me, he intuited it wasn't matching up with the "love" I was asking about. He didn't love me the way that I loved him, which is a good thing! The love I felt was horrible! I totally put him in power of my happiness. Yeccccch! No wonder he didn't want whatever he was feeling to be identified as that.

I actually do believe he loved me, and that it was an entirely different experience from mine, one that I will never fully know or understand. Just like I will never fully know or understand how Danger Man feels about me, and he'll never fully know or understand how I feel about him. We can talk about it till we're blue in the face, and we still will never know the unknowable. "Needing" to know how another person feels is a great way make yourself feel bad, if that's what you're up to. Maybe just grant both of you the freedom to feel what you're feeling, and let go of a need to give it a name -- love like a dog.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

I actually do believe he loved me, and that it was an entirely different experience from mine, one that I will never fully know or understand. Just like I will never fully know or understand how Danger Man feels about me, and he'll never fully know or understand how I feel about him. We can talk about it till we're blue in the face, and we still will never know the unknowable. "Needing" to know how another person feels is a great way make yourself feel bad, if that's what you're up to. Maybe just grant both of you the freedom to feel what you're feeling, and let go of a need to give it a name -- love like a dog.

Yeah, I guess I am up to that because I am crying at work again .

It is like this: if I grant him the freedom to feel what he is feeling and he never loved me it would just prove my nothingness. I know it doesn't *actually* but it feels that way.

Also it's kind of ridiculous because he freely told me he loved me and did a lot of loving things for me. I don't even know why I question it. He would think me silly for even asking that question. And yet I persist (well, not to him, I'm not calling him up and asking him this...I know some of the crazy things to avoid ). I think if he knew what I was feeling right now he would feel so bad that I feel so bad. He definitely cares even if we don't define love in the same way. He would want to love me the way I wanted, see what I mean?

[dancer]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Not at all. I learn from other people's posts too and I think it's the value of being open with each other.



That must have felt very bad, but I am glad that you were able to surrender it and gain a sense of empowerment. I have waves where I am feeling so free and fine and then waves where I feel so lost and scared. I am hoping we both experience the good waves!

Your generousity is heart felt and tears of gratitude are bubbling in my eyes. I wish with all my heart that you and all of us catch great waves.

I really thought I had squashed "I am nothing" but that is misguided. Although I can rationally see the cost of it in my life and consciously generate better, more inspiring ways of being it doesn't disappear after 23 years of ingraining itself in my life. It is trying to hold on and fighting very powerfully with weapons that especially hurt since it knows my weaknesses.

Part of the issue is that I think I am still waiting for him to prove that I am not nothing instead of doing it for myself. A part of me feels it's only valid if it comes from outside which is completely backwards!

Here again, I relate so much to you. Last weekend, I thought a lot about what Tolle says about who we really are. Not the ego part of us, but our essence, our presence and this helped me so much. Aspiring, you have so much compassion for others and I believe it is because you see past their egos and look right smack at their essence. Can't you spend some time looking past your ego and knowing that you are worth as much as everyone else, no better and no worse? This really helped me and I hope, with all my heart, it helps you. If we do this, then we are not looking for validation from outside of ourselves.

Lots of love

[Joely]

Originally Posted by Angela

I used to ask Mr. HeroinAddictedMarginalRockstar if he loved me, and he would reply, "what IS love, anyway?" which drove me crazy, of course. Now in retrospect I can see he had a point. Whatever he felt about me, he intuited it wasn't matching up with the "love" I was asking about. He didn't love me the way that I loved him, which is a good thing! The love I felt was horrible! I totally put him in power of my happiness. Yeccccch! No wonder he didn't want whatever he was feeling to be identified as that.

Ooh. Big aha moment for me reading that!

I have the tapes for the Sedona Method's Effortless Creation course and it includes material from the attendees of the seminar. Whenever anybody gets up and asks a question about something, Hale Dwoskin asks "Can you let go of trying to figure it out?" because as long as we're trying to figure things out, we can't let go of them. They're like Rubik's Cubes, and we're never done with them. I do that with all kinds of things. I guess you're kind of in that stage where you wonder what that relationship meant, what meaning it had, since we're all given the impression that relationships, if they have meaning, last forever. I'm doing it *right now* with other parts of my life.

And I have to admit here, I am no good at Rubik's Cube.

For the record, I think you're doing brilliantly Aspiring!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Joely

"Can you let go of trying to figure it out?" because as long as we're trying to figure things out, we can't let go of them.

That is the really big one for me. I know it at least so that's good I guess . The thing that would make a difference for me to let go of would be my "need" to figure it out, know the answers, have a definitive take on every detail. I don't just do this in this area, but it's deepest and biggest here. I have been able to let go of that more readily in other situations.

I had a best friend at one time and all of the sudden she cut me off because someone told her I said something bad about her. I had no idea what she was talking about and was so hurt trying to figure it out and make sense of it -- how she could believe the other person and drop me after years of friendship. But I was able to get over that a lot more quickly.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by dancer

Your generousity is heart felt and tears of gratitude are bubbling in my eyes. I wish with all my heart that you and all of us catch great waves.



Here again, I relate so much to you. Last weekend, I thought a lot about what Tolle says about who we really are. Not the ego part of us, but our essence, our presence and this helped me so much. Aspiring, you have so much compassion for others and I believe it is because you see past their egos and look right smack at their essence. Can't you spend some time looking past your ego and knowing that you are worth as much as everyone else, no better and no worse? This really helped me and I hope, with all my heart, it helps you. If we do this, then we are not looking for validation from outside of ourselves.

Lots of love

You have what I would call a sweet spirit. It just shines through your words. Just wanted to let you know that I've noticed that.

I will work on looking at myself with the same loving eye I try to see others with.

[ZHereford]

Hi Aspiring,

Moving on and letting go is definitely a difficult process. Like all processes, it's two steps forward, one step back. It doesn't surprise me that you've been having flashbacks of some painful memories. Maybe they're coming back because you're meant to examine them.

As we've discussed in other threads emotional pain, like physical pain is meant to alert us to something. If you burned yourself and didn't experience the pain, you wouldn't be able to dress and heal the wound properly. You're emotional wounds need healing too. In order to heal them you must first identify them. Like physical wounds, if you ignore or neglect them, they will fester, become infected, spread and generally worsen.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

Like physical wounds, if you ignore or neglect them, they will fester, become infected, spread and generally worsen.

I definitely don't want that .


BTW Hey Z! Glad to see you.