Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

uberinquisitive · 03-03-2008, 12:34 PM

And why am I too chicken to call him out on it! I'm kinda disgusted in myself

End of January, we had a huge argument. After that, we decided to take a break. We parted on amicable terms. But it was never an official break-up.

However, we've sure acted as if we broke up. As in, barely any contact of any kind. Then, out of the blue, he emails me a week ago, asking if I want to have dinner. Sure, dinner sounded fine to me. I only have pleasant feelings for him.

I saw him yesterday. Spent the night (no sex - and no pressure for sex, either, even the poor guy spent the entire time, um, excited). And, he treated me as if the past month never happened. He was all affectionate and kiss-y and calling me pet names.

But the best part of the night was sleeping with his cat by my side. I love that cat. I missed that cat.

I'm just so mad that I didn't firmly tell him, "I feel weird! Can we talk about this first?" For some reason, I was worried about making HIM uncomfortable.

Much of the time, I was a bit irritated at him. I've gained confidence exponentially since January, and he's missed out on a lot of it. He treats me how he's always treated me. And now, I find it belittling, stifling, and such a turn-off. But I kept my mouth shut because I wanted to keep the peace.

He's not a bad guy. He's not even a chauvinist. He's essentially a great guy who also happens to be clueless about me. So I feel guilty, because him trying to understand me it's like asking a born-blind man to describe an apple. Impossible. And not his fault.

I've been asking myself, "what do I want, in regards to him?" And I get a total blank. I just know that I want to be kind to him. But in terms of what I want, I have no clue.

Rockchick26 · 03-03-2008, 02:53 PM

My first question was going to be "what do you want out of this guy?" but you said you didnt know,so...hmmm LOL I would say when in doubt,don't. So don't keep seeing him if you are unsure,cuz it sounds to me like you wont want him ever again,and it isnt fair to lead him on by sleeping over at his house when he's all raring to go LOL At the same time,its hard to come straight out and tell someone that its over,when he isnt a bad guy,its just not working out. One question though,why do you say its impossible for him to understand you? How long did you date him? It sounds like the connection isnt there,the chemistry isnt there,so,i would just say "I'm sorry but i dont feel what you feel,its best we dont see each other",but i know thats hard,cuz when i was with my ex boyfriend,i didnt feel anything for him but yet i was afraid to break up,so i more or less waited for him to finally do it. Good luck with this! :-)

Erin Pavlina · 03-03-2008, 03:13 PM

I've gone through that before. With friends. After a time of separation I had changed quite a bit, gotten more confident, less submissive. But when I started hanging out with them again they still treated me like my old self and it was uncomfortable and difficult for me to get them to see I'd changed.

What happens is that you shift your vibration to a new frequency and you're no longer a match for being treated like you were at your old frequency.

For me, there were only two choices. Either they update their file on me and get with the program, or I no longer associated with them becuase they were trying to drag me back to an old vibration.

Angela · 03-03-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

But the best part of the night was sleeping with his cat by my side. I love that cat. I missed that cat.

Uber, the cat part is very funny!

Your situation is absolutely perfect. You struggled about boundaries during your relationship with this guy, and you came through some very big lessons for yourself in living a life you love. Now, after a bit of breathing space, he's back to give you a chance to put what you've learned into action! How great is that!

It's not important that you momentarily fell back into your old pattern of making his well-being a bigger priority than your own and trying to keep the peace at your own expense. That's perfect, really, because it magnifies for you what works for your and what doesn't. You don't feel good that you didn't stand for your boundaries, and that's your guide to take you onto the right path. It's just practice. Now you can take a deep breath and distinguish what it takes for you to take good care of yourself. Congratulations on that!

Is there any way you can get custody of the cat?

mncz · 03-03-2008, 04:19 PM

Aww, uber, I feel you

. When my mom told me that my ex had conquered me with his cats (he has 3 british cats, they are beyond awesome and cute), I had to agree there was a lot of truth in her words.

But as for the other parts, Angela is right: now you can consciously see how your new attitude affects your feelings about your decisions and thus eventually the decisions themselves. This event has shown you that your new life is worth pursuing, since you feel bad about the old behavior and know that you would have felt better choosing your new behavior. The whole "choose things that feel good" perception actually works.

As for the ex, I would say that chances are slim that he will change, thus chances are slim that you can remain in relationship, but you can always give him a chance and show your new way of thinking through action, to see how he reacts to it. If he will not update his actions, you will eventually feel so "incongruent" and unhappy with him that you will be relieved to break up with him. Of course, it is better not to get there, but if you need that lesson, you will choose to have it.

Have no fear

You are on the right path!

{aspiring_to_clarity} · 03-03-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mncz

but if you need that lesson, you will choose to have it.

Wise words.

John P · 03-03-2008, 05:43 PM

Why is your ex-bf still treating you like his gf? Because you're treating him like your bf. You take a break (with no closure)... and then go out to dinner with him and spend the night. That's a relationship. I bet he thought that perhaps the break was over and invited you to dinner to test the waters.

If you want him to stop treating you like his gf, then break up with him. Do it gently and kindly, of course, but this in-limbo/halfway thing doesn't seem to be working for you.

frosta · 03-04-2008, 02:28 PM

Maybe when you agreed to have a break, he interpreted that as a break? like in "let's have a break for the good of our relationship". I assume if he had this idea then he basically spend the time of the break with thinking about you and how to make things better or so, while you probably used the time to focus on yourself and things which make you happy.

But it's never too late to talk clearly about things... And if he wants you so badly he probably needs the distance more than you do.

just an advise of a guy who definitely needs to be kicked in the butt in such a situation

(PS: when I was with my girl one of her cats was very affectionate to me, but I had problems making both of them happy! they became all jealous and bitchy!!!

)

BamBam · 03-04-2008, 10:29 PM

yea it sounds like you need to cut it clean

it also sounds like you aren't sure about it and he is sensing hes got a shot

you better make it clear

uberinquisitive · 03-11-2008, 06:26 AM

ok, the situation has become a lot more convoluted. To make a long story short, things became sexual again. I didn't really want it to, but I felt wanted.

It was the worst sex we've had. Which was still ok. But it was bad.

Afterwards, I felt very uncomfortable, and so I told him so. I felt uncomfy that the sex was bad, and that our relationship status was not clear.

He told me that "I don't see us in a relationship. Ever. I'm sorry I'm always disappointing you (today in bed, in the relationship in general, and now by breaking things off). But you're awesome."

I felt so used. And I started to cry. He felt horrible; he's not a bad guy. I told him, "maybe we shouldn't see each other for a while." He didn't seem happy with it, but he agreed.

But then the next day, sex again. This time I initiated. And this time, he more or less pledged undying loyalty to me. We have a kinky sex life, but we really pushed the envelope that night. He said he wanted to my slave and to be owned by me.

He woke up early to catch a plane for his business trip overseas. He offered to let me stay at his apt, which is also much closer to my work than my other apt.. I'm staying until Sunday. I'm also taking care of his cat.

And now, I'm totally regretting it. I feel so uncomfortable in his apt. Yesterday, I found a big box of condoms, which freaked me out. We don't use condoms and I've cleaned every corner of his apt. before, so this is new. Some condoms were taken out. Of course, it's dangerous to make assumptions.

And yet, even after finding the condoms, I sent him a cute "me and the cat - day 1" email, and then a sexually explicit email. We had talked about, how during his trip, I would send him sexual instructions. So, I thought I was being "cool" about it. I didn't mention the condoms at all.

Now, these sexual instructions are time specific. And he hasn't responded. He responded to another email, where I asked him what day to take out the trash. But not to the sex email.

Again, I feel so....used. And stupid. He tells me he doesn't want a relationship ever...then the next day, he tells me I'm the most amazing woman he's ever met and he wants me to sexually own him. And now, I feel like such an IDIOT sending any of the emails. I feel like I've lost all my personal power. Then again, I don't know, maybe it's just my ego talking.

Right now, I'm struggling with what I want. What I do know: I don't want to be reactionary. I want to put all these high principles of PD into play. I want to live what I've been reading and discussing this past year.

If that's the case, then my first instinct is to be unconditionally loving. As in, stop sending the sex emails. But keep sending the cat emails. Be kind and open to any communication. Never bring up the condoms. And just be cool and kind and open.

Another instinct is to protect myself. I've been feeling nauseous about this entire thing from this morning. Not getting a response back from my sex email was pretty humiliating. In Tolle terms, my pain-body is going bananas. And I don't know how to stop the spiral into madness. The only saving grace is that he's thousands of miles away, I can't call or text him, and I haven't emailed him anything psycho. In order to protect myself, I just want to stop contacting him. I want to tell him to have his neighbors look after the cat. And I want to run away.

I feel like being unconditionally loving would be the better choice. I would learn a lot. But it's very scary. I already feel used and humiliated and disempowered. From this negative state, it's tough to detach from the pain-body. I am trying to do Byron Katie's "Work" but I am overwhelmed by the incredible pain (which I'm sure is 10% the current situation pain, and 90% my past pain).

So, I have all this awareness and a wealth of tools. But I feel stuck. I feel stuck in the lion's den. I feel stuck with pandora's condom box. I feel stuck with expectations that may never be fulfilled by him. I feel stuck in my own anxiety and want to hurt him/protect myself.

How do I stay unconditionally loving? How do I let go of this tightness and nausea in my gut? How do I get through this?

mncz · 03-11-2008, 11:58 AM

Uber, you are making a big mistake (well, I made it too, so it must be quite common). I too thought that unconditional love meant finding a way to cope with whatever your significant other throws your way, "rising above it". Well, it does not. The pain you feel is a warning. Heed its call!

You must first unconditionally love yourself. Ask yourself: is what you are having now the kind of relationship YOU want? Remember why you chose to have this break in the first place. Has that reason become invalid? Has something about him significantly changed? And why do you think that you should suppress your feelings for his benefit?

Also, I have concluded that, in most cases, for men having sex is not equal to having relationship. So by this logic his two statements - about not seeing you two in relationship and about him wanting to be owned by you are in fact not contradictory. If you offer sex to a man, he will be more than happy to take it - but it does not mean that you are having a relationship. It's just sex, nothing more.

I am at pain to express my point more clearly and with more logic, since what is happening to you is just so extremely similar to what happened to me recently that I just have this big red flashing light in my head that screams "get out of there, and fast". Perhaps I am relating to this in the wrong way, but I would suggest that you are extremely cautious and put your feelings and your well being above everything else. Since there is unlimited abundance in the world, you can freely discard things that do not fit you - it will only allow the things that do fit come to you sooner. Never be satisfied with a tiny bit of the cake - you can have it all.

Zane · 03-11-2008, 12:10 PM

my opinion, he doesn't concern on this very much. And when he dicided to take a break, that must be his fool decision, anyway u say he's good, and just keep the relation as if u want to, but i afraid that he would make up some more decision like this one, maybe he's not ready for a serious relation.

John P · 03-11-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mncz

You must first unconditionally love yourself.

This is absolutely true. Unconditional love doesn't mean letting people use you or walk all over you. That is letting fear take you over.

Unconditional love means loving yourself as much as him (or other people).

Angela · 03-11-2008, 05:54 PM

hey, Uber, my heart is with you -- I know how difficult and painful it can be when you're continually drawn to a lover with whom you're not your best self. When I was in that situation with the recovering heroin addict rockstar guy, I knew it was a terrible situation for me to put myself in, and I still put myself in it, and I was so full of shame and self-loathing. It really was a downward spiral.

I knew for myself the only way to quit was cold-turkey -- zero contact. It hurt like hell. And it was what it took for me to break the cycle.

I wish for you the clear sight of what it will take for you to break your pattern with this guy, and the courage to see it through. Whatever it is that will have you breaking this cycle of reactivating your old pain, that's where the huge life lesson for you is -- the experience of yourself as a powerful, loving, deserving, joyful person.

Lots of love and best wishes to you in this. It's a blessing and a curse!

uberinquisitive · 03-11-2008, 06:40 PM

After some sleep and thinking - I decided to write him an apology email.

Thing is, the guy has been solid from day 1. But me? With my borderline personality, plus the suicide of my fiance just 4 months earlier, plus all my baggage - I put him through a lot of pain. The worst he's done to me is not email or call for a few weeks. I've done much worse to him.

I didn't write the apology email to "win" him back. Instead, I wrote it because I honestly feel remorseful and want to let him know that, although I openly blamed him for my unhappiness, he didn't cause any of it. I asked for his forgiveness, and explained that I was in such a bad mental state that I didn't know I was being hurtful towards him.

I know I did the right thing. I am at peace with it.

Now I can spend this week, while he's away, trying to figure what to do next. Maybe a true separation is the way to go.

Rick Abelson · 03-11-2008, 08:35 PM

Don't forget the one true constant in all of this.....HE IS A GUY!! He doesn't want to believe that any other guy on the planet could possibly take his place. I know it doesn't make sense to a woman but that's the way it is. He is going to act like he does until some other woman starts catering to him. Cut the cord....he'll get over it!

uberinquisitive · 03-13-2008, 05:22 AM

It hurts so much, but I know I have to have true separation. Not just a break. But a true separation.

I have spent the past 2 days just crying my heart out. Alot of fear.

I wrote in my journal:

Quote:

What do I want? Peace, stability, joy.
Are these things a relationship can give me? No.

They can only come from me. And it's so unfair! Why can't someone give it to me? I need to be taken care of. I can't survive alone.

I'm so scared to look inside myself. There is so much pain inside. I can barely endure the pain right now. I want it to go away, and I want to be happy.

I don't have faith. I'm not sure I have courage, either.

I don't know if I can take care of myself. I'm not sure I'm enough.

I'm in so much pain right now. I can barely get out of bed. Thank god today my boss is out of town, so I could stay home. I am so glad that my current job is so flexible, and I could take a few days off if I need to.

I'm so tired.

xyz · 03-13-2008, 05:55 AM

Uberinquisitive, do you have a family? parents? siblings? cousins? grandparents? friends? if possible try taking a mini holiday with them. If you can get some toddlers to play with that will do wonders to you. Try it if possible. If none of these are possible why not head to some place noisy, hip hop, sunny and bright for a mere few days alone? Even if that too is impossible why not volunteer for some cause? Maybe you find satisfaction in doing something for others.

uberinquisitive · 03-13-2008, 06:24 AM

Going off on a mini-vacation does sound appealing.

However, I always do this. I'm always moving around, trying to avoid dealing with stuff. I wonder if it's about time that I stand my ground.

I've been using Tolle's suggestions of observing the pain-body. It's been a freaky experience.

I'm sitting at a table, and across from me is an empty chair. Sitting in it, I can almost see "me" - not the ego me, but the deep, authentic, "core" me. She's dressed like me, looks like me.

She just looks at me, with a lot of compassion. And I can see what she sees - this demon going in and out of me. This demon also looks like me, but is almost transparent, and has a menacing look in its eyes.

Tolle says to just observe the "demon" without judgement or labels. And, also to observe the observer. Basically, be super aware and totally in the Now.

How is it working for me? Well, I stopped my uncontrollable crying. It started again once I started thinking of worst case scenerios, but then I snapped my attention back to watching "Core" Uber observing the demon. And the tears immediately stopped.

I'm now reading chapter 2 of "The Power of Now" and it's amazing just how deeply I identify with my mind/ego. I mean, all these years when I thought I was a self-aware person...I was really very self-aware of my ego!

Even now, although I have been watching Oprah's webinar with Tolle and reading "The Power of Now" and "New Earth" I still find myself clinging to the ego and pain-body. And, I judge myself for it. Total ego. Total frustration because I want all this pain to go away, right now. I'm so impatient to be "cured."

Joely · 03-13-2008, 04:04 PM

If Tolle doesn't help, try Pema Chodron.

I'm so sorry you're in this state. Be gentle with yourself, and don't try to make yourself into anything or fight with anything.

I know how you feel - I'm impatient too. All I can do is send you love and say "this too will pass." Because it will, it always does.

J x

xyz · 03-13-2008, 04:27 PM

Uberinquisitive,
Warm hugs to you. You can try all the methods in different, and pleasant surroundings if you want. It will accelerate the process. Try doing something for others who REALLY needs you. Maybe you might see all these happenings in a different light. You are a REAL brave person and you will emerge out fine and stronger. Believe me. Lots of hugs to you again.

mncz · 03-14-2008, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

It hurts so much, but I know I have to have true separation. Not just a break. But a true separation.

I have spent the past 2 days just crying my heart out. Alot of fear.

I wrote in my journal:

I'm in so much pain right now. I can barely get out of bed. Thank god today my boss is out of town, so I could stay home. I am so glad that my current job is so flexible, and I could take a few days off if I need to.

I'm so tired.

Uber, I give you all my hugs and all the love I can possibly have. I know precisely how you feel and not that long ago I was precisely in the same place. I am very sorry for you. If it is any support, I can tell you that it will get better with time, and once out of the desperation, you will start to appreciate the freedom your single life and new perspective gives you. It will get better. It will not always hurt like this. And when it ends, you will find yourself a stronger, better and smarter person. You will have your wings and one day you will fly, I promise.

Angela · 03-14-2008, 02:40 AM

I know it hurts, and I'm sorry you have this pain. I think later you'll be glad to feel the temporary rip of the band-aid, rather than just being at the effect of him for some indefinite long-drawn out time (any more than you already have!)

Lots of love and good wishes to you, Core Uber.

Joely · 03-14-2008, 01:34 PM

Hi again Uber,

It's odd, I found myself thinking about you last night. It was two things: firstly we're both going through a lot of pain at the moment but for different reasons, and secondly, I've been in a similar situation where even though I think I should know better, I keep doing things that hurt me.

I know that we read all of this stuff about dealing with life and self-development, and then the moment we get into deep pain it flies out the window. Deep down I think we still see pain as something bad, something that's unacceptable because we've done all this growth. But the thing is, it's not. Pain just is, we have pain because things happen we don't like and we get hurt. Telling ourselves off for it doesn't help - it just makes it worse.

I was just going to suggest that you just allow yourself to feel whatever you're feeling. Don't label it or try to tell yourself to do certain things or think you should be feeling differently. Just accept what is for now, and what's happened. It might not be now, it might be some time before you realise it, but you'll look back on this as a stage of major growth. That's what I think at least. There's nothing wrong with you, you've done nothing wrong. You're OK, and it's OK for you to feel the way you do. We have an addiction to feeling good, and we think if we don't feel good, something's wrong. But it isn't.

When I read all these books, whether it's Chodron or Tolle or any of the Buddhist theorists, the most important lesson there is just to accept what is, whether you label it as good or bad. Let it all flow through you. Listen to your thoughts, don't try to stop them, but you can learn from them: what are they telling you about what you believe deep down about yourself and what you're worth?

I hope that helps - I'm still learning myself,

J x

uberinquisitive · 03-14-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joely

We have an addiction to feeling good, and we think if we don't feel good, something's wrong. But it isn't.

When I read all these books, whether it's Chodron or Tolle or any of the Buddhist theorists, the most important lesson there is just to accept what is, whether you label it as good or bad.

Yup, it's hard to stop labeling pain as "bad." Everything I read says that suffering is the doorway to finding real joy. So, in many ways, pain is "good."

Recently, I've been trying to differentiate the difference between joy and happiness.
Joy is stable and permanent, the backdrop of realizing that life isn't serious.
Happiness is unstable and fleeting, because it's a reaction to a pleasurable event.

Seems that happiness causes a lot of pain, because we try to cling to it, even though it's like an ice cream cone in the middle of July. When we have it, we're too busy freaking out about it melting. When it disappears, we cry at the void. And then when we get another cone, the cycle repeats again. And again.

For a long time, I've been tired of suffering. But until very recently, I didn't feel how INSANE suffering really is.

Fact is, I create almost 100% of my suffering. I torture my own mind and body: the repetitive negative talk, the constant dwelling on painful past memories, the deep anxiety about the future, and trying to quell the anxiety through food, sex, and other physical addictions.

It's F*CKING INSANE!

Tolle's readings are helping me BIG TIME. I've read and re-read about the pain-body and have made a conscious effort to go inside my body and be present with the aliveness.

The universe then gave me a "pop quiz":

Yesterday, my bf unexpectedly came home from his trip. Turns out, he was going on the second leg of his trip the next day.

Anyways, he was initially really irritated to see me. This has happened before - back in December, I was in his apt. unexpectedly, and he was irritated. In December, we got into the biggest argument of our relationship because I was soooo offended.

However, this time, I didn't feel as offended as I "should" have been. Instead, I immediately started packing and didn't make a big deal out of it. And within minutes, the bf stopped being irritated and asked for a few minutes to snuggle on the couch.

As I was going back to my own apt., I started to feel the pain-body start to come again.

Tolle says in PoN that as soon as you start going into the negative self-talk, to catch yourself and become aware. I was just about to start crying again, but then I immediately focused on my breathing, the trees around me, the sound of traffic. I nipped it in the bud.

This is the first time in my life I have been able to stop such an emotional hurricane. I feel both exhilarated and frightened. My strongest identities are being threatened: a borderline personality, an artist living a wretched life and using pain to inspire her, a volatile but beautiful creature.

A snide voice in me is saying, "well, you're no Edith Piaf now, are you."

Can an artist be well-adjusted and happy?? I am afraid of losing my "artist' brand.

Joely · 03-14-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

Yup, it's hard to stop labeling pain as "bad." Everything I read says that suffering is the doorway to finding real joy. So, in many ways, pain is "good."

Recently, I've been trying to differentiate the difference between joy and happiness.
Joy is stable and permanent, the backdrop of realizing that life isn't serious.
Happiness is unstable and fleeting, because it's a reaction to a pleasurable event.

Seems that happiness causes a lot of pain, because we try to cling to it, even though it's like an ice cream cone in the middle of July. When we have it, we're too busy freaking out about it melting. When it disappears, we cry at the void. And then when we get another cone, the cycle repeats again. And again.

For a long time, I've been tired of suffering. But until very recently, I didn't feel how INSANE suffering really is.

Fact is, I create almost 100% of my suffering. I torture my own mind and body: the repetitive negative talk, the constant dwelling on painful past memories, the deep anxiety about the future, and trying to quell the anxiety through food, sex, and other physical addictions.

It's F*CKING INSANE!

Tolle's readings are helping me BIG TIME. I've read and re-read about the pain-body and have made a conscious effort to go inside my body and be present with the aliveness.

The universe then gave me a "pop quiz":

Yesterday, my bf unexpectedly came home from his trip. Turns out, he was going on the second leg of his trip the next day.

Anyways, he was initially really irritated to see me. This has happened before - back in December, I was in his apt. unexpectedly, and he was irritated. In December, we got into the biggest argument of our relationship because I was soooo offended.

However, this time, I didn't feel as offended as I "should" have been. Instead, I immediately started packing and didn't make a big deal out of it. And within minutes, the bf stopped being irritated and asked for a few minutes to snuggle on the couch.

As I was going back to my own apt., I started to feel the pain-body start to come again.

Tolle says in PoN that as soon as you start going into the negative self-talk, to catch yourself and become aware. I was just about to start crying again, but then I immediately focused on my breathing, the trees around me, the sound of traffic. I nipped it in the bud.

This is the first time in my life I have been able to stop such an emotional hurricane. I feel both exhilarated and frightened. My strongest identities are being threatened: a borderline personality, an artist living a wretched life and using pain to inspire her, a volatile but beautiful creature.

A snide voice in me is saying, "well, you're no Edith Piaf now, are you."

Can an artist be well-adjusted and happy?? I am afraid of losing my "artist' brand.

I'm glad it's working for you. I'm trying the same thing with my self-talk. I think it's a matter of not identifying with it. Therein lies the key.

I hope artists can be well-adjusted and happy. It's interesting, because people often say "Oh, I wish I could be passionate and volatile and scream into the void like you!" I've got the impassioned wild artist image too (as well as the starving artist image) and I wonder whether it's actually all that great to be a wild thing.

But an artist, of course, has the right to paint herself (or write herself) any way she chooses.

I guess we have to play with the gifts the gods give us.

uberinquisitive · 03-14-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joely

I'm glad it's working for you. I'm trying the same thing with my self-talk. I think it's a matter of not identifying with it. Therein lies the key.

How do you go about not identifying with it? I've tried lots of different methods, but thus far, Tolle's method of being intensely present seems to be the most effective: as soon as I become aware of an unhappy feeling or thought, I immediately started feeling the "aliveness" of my hands, then my feet, my legs, arms, then whole body.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joely

I hope artists can be well-adjusted and happy. It's interesting, because people often say "Oh, I wish I could be passionate and volatile and scream into the void like you!" I've got the impassioned wild artist image too (as well as the starving artist image) and I wonder whether it's actually all that great to be a wild thing.

But an artist, of course, has the right to paint herself (or write herself) any way she chooses.

I guess we have to play with the gifts the gods give us.

You know, I feel like I cling to the artist image because it makes me feel special, like I was ordained by god to be different from the plebians.

But does this image actually help my art? NO! How can I possibly write when I'm laying in bed, with all the curtains drawn? Or when I'm abusing prescription codeine? Or when when unstable romantic life obsesses my mind so thoroughly that I can't think of anything else?

Actually, I am most productive when my life is "bland." When I am well-rested, not drugged, and focused in a business-like way to my craft. But something about that both repels and scares me. I mean, it doesn't seem very glamorous, for one. Artists are supposed to be butterflies, not ants! The world is supposed to admire us, be jealous of us, covet our life.

But I don't think anyone would covet my life, quite honestly. I think people love to hear about my drama. But then, I'm like the monkey performing for them. There is no real respect there, is there?

But most of all - what if I'm only an artist because of my temperament? What if, under all the delicious misery and ooey-gooey tragedy...is nothing? Is all my wild artist antics my way of telling the world, "I swear, I am a great artist. Even though I haven't really accomplished much."

SunnKali · 03-14-2008, 02:57 PM

Uber - you might be interested in listening to these recordings done by Marci Shimoff & Paul Scheele. She has a great way of describing happiness where it becomes similar to the joy expression you described - where you can find happiness regardless of life's circumstances. You still feel life's pains, but you're able to see the beauty in them and not let them take you over. The book and audiobook, and paraliminal of Happy For No Reason are also really good.

(the mp3 download for the fourth session does work even if it is mostly off the frame - at least that's how it looks on my computer.)

Marci Shimoff - Keynote Speaker & Author

.

Angela · 03-14-2008, 03:03 PM

Uber, here is what Eckhart Tolle says about suffering in A New Earth:

Quote:

As long as you resist suffering, it is a slow process because the resistance creates more ego to burn up. When you accept suffering, however, there is an acceleration of that process which is brought about by the fact that you suffer consciously.

Interesting, huh?

mncz · 03-15-2008, 02:47 AM

That Tolle quote about suffering is very true.

Uber, I am an artist of sorts too. And I have long shed the belief that my creation has come from a painful place. I believe that one can create their best work when in a peaceful/joyful state of mind. Negative emotion put in art resonates with people on their ego level: it triggers their own pain bodies and they feel emotionally moved and, due to not knowing better, think "oh, this is real art" when in fact it is just exploiting and manipulation of ego/suffering. To the contrary, when a joyful/peaceful/enlightened emotion is put in art, it resonates with people on the level of soul. And that is art in it's purest form.

I do graphic design and I think that it is partly because of my profession that I am able to relate to the ideas of Power of Now and LoA with such ease: I have recently observed that when I work, I enter Now. When I do some really nice pieces, there is nothing else on my mind, just the current moment and improving the current moment and making it perfect. It has nothing to do with suffering, but everything to do with being fully present. And the more present I feel, the better my works are.

And on a slightly different note, I too have been in this situation where I know what is good for me, but keep harming myself. That is what was on my mind when I wrote previously in this thread "but if you will need this lesson, you will choose to have it". Your choices are not essentially right or wrong. They are the ones that you need to make to experience to learn whatever it is you are learning now.

I send you all my love and support in your journey.

03-03-2008, 12:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
uberinquisitive Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 634	rant/vent: why is my ex-bf treating me like I'm still his gf? And why am I too chicken to call him out on it! I'm kinda disgusted in myself End of January, we had a huge argument. After that, we decided to take a break. We parted on amicable terms. But it was never an official break-up. However, we've sure acted as if we broke up. As in, barely any contact of any kind. Then, out of the blue, he emails me a week ago, asking if I want to have dinner. Sure, dinner sounded fine to me. I only have pleasant feelings for him. I saw him yesterday. Spent the night (no sex - and no pressure for sex, either, even the poor guy spent the entire time, um, excited). And, he treated me as if the past month never happened. He was all affectionate and kiss-y and calling me pet names. But the best part of the night was sleeping with his cat by my side. I love that cat. I missed that cat. I'm just so mad that I didn't firmly tell him, "I feel weird! Can we talk about this first?" For some reason, I was worried about making HIM uncomfortable. Much of the time, I was a bit irritated at him. I've gained confidence exponentially since January, and he's missed out on a lot of it. He treats me how he's always treated me. And now, I find it belittling, stifling, and such a turn-off. But I kept my mouth shut because I wanted to keep the peace. He's not a bad guy. He's not even a chauvinist. He's essentially a great guy who also happens to be clueless about me. So I feel guilty, because him trying to understand me it's like asking a born-blind man to describe an apple. Impossible. And not his fault. I've been asking myself, "what do I want, in regards to him?" And I get a total blank. I just know that I want to be kind to him. But in terms of what I want, I have no clue.

03-03-2008, 03:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
Erin Pavlina Administrator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 4,593	I've gone through that before. With friends. After a time of separation I had changed quite a bit, gotten more confident, less submissive. But when I started hanging out with them again they still treated me like my old self and it was uncomfortable and difficult for me to get them to see I'd changed. What happens is that you shift your vibration to a new frequency and you're no longer a match for being treated like you were at your old frequency. For me, there were only two choices. Either they update their file on me and get with the program, or I no longer associated with them becuase they were trying to drag me back to an old vibration. __________________ Erin Pavlina, Intuitive Counselor Connect with me on: Facebook

03-04-2008, 02:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
frosta Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5	Maybe when you agreed to have a break, he interpreted that as a break? like in "let's have a break for the good of our relationship". I assume if he had this idea then he basically spend the time of the break with thinking about you and how to make things better or so, while you probably used the time to focus on yourself and things which make you happy. But it's never too late to talk clearly about things... And if he wants you so badly he probably needs the distance more than you do. just an advise of a guy who definitely needs to be kicked in the butt in such a situation (PS: when I was with my girl one of her cats was very affectionate to me, but I had problems making both of them happy! they became all jealous and bitchy!!! ) Last edited by frosta; 03-04-2008 at 02:54 PM.

03-14-2008, 02:57 PM	#28 (permalink)
SunnKali Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 147	Happy For No Reason Uber - you might be interested in listening to these recordings done by Marci Shimoff & Paul Scheele. She has a great way of describing happiness where it becomes similar to the joy expression you described - where you can find happiness regardless of life's circumstances. You still feel life's pains, but you're able to see the beauty in them and not let them take you over. The book and audiobook, and paraliminal of Happy For No Reason are also really good. (the mp3 download for the fourth session does work even if it is mostly off the frame - at least that's how it looks on my computer.) Marci Shimoff - Keynote Speaker & Author . Last edited by SunnKali; 03-14-2008 at 03:00 PM.

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03-03-2008, 02:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rockchick26 Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,037	My first question was going to be "what do you want out of this guy?" but you said you didnt know,so...hmmm LOL I would say when in doubt,don't. So don't keep seeing him if you are unsure,cuz it sounds to me like you wont want him ever again,and it isnt fair to lead him on by sleeping over at his house when he's all raring to go LOL At the same time,its hard to come straight out and tell someone that its over,when he isnt a bad guy,its just not working out. One question though,why do you say its impossible for him to understand you? How long did you date him? It sounds like the connection isnt there,the chemistry isnt there,so,i would just say "I'm sorry but i dont feel what you feel,its best we dont see each other",but i know thats hard,cuz when i was with my ex boyfriend,i didnt feel anything for him but yet i was afraid to break up,so i more or less waited for him to finally do it. Good luck with this! :-)

03-03-2008, 04:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
mncz Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 175	Aww, uber, I feel you . When my mom told me that my ex had conquered me with his cats (he has 3 british cats, they are beyond awesome and cute), I had to agree there was a lot of truth in her words. But as for the other parts, Angela is right: now you can consciously see how your new attitude affects your feelings about your decisions and thus eventually the decisions themselves. This event has shown you that your new life is worth pursuing, since you feel bad about the old behavior and know that you would have felt better choosing your new behavior. The whole "choose things that feel good" perception actually works. As for the ex, I would say that chances are slim that he will change, thus chances are slim that you can remain in relationship, but you can always give him a chance and show your new way of thinking through action, to see how he reacts to it. If he will not update his actions, you will eventually feel so "incongruent" and unhappy with him that you will be relieved to break up with him. Of course, it is better not to get there, but if you need that lesson, you will choose to have it. Have no fear You are on the right path!

03-03-2008, 05:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
John P Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 93	Why is your ex-bf still treating you like his gf? Because you're treating him like your bf. You take a break (with no closure)... and then go out to dinner with him and spend the night. That's a relationship. I bet he thought that perhaps the break was over and invited you to dinner to test the waters. If you want him to stop treating you like his gf, then break up with him. Do it gently and kindly, of course, but this in-limbo/halfway thing doesn't seem to be working for you.

03-04-2008, 10:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
BamBam Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 35	yea it sounds like you need to cut it clean it also sounds like you aren't sure about it and he is sensing hes got a shot you better make it clear

03-11-2008, 06:26 AM	#10 (permalink)
uberinquisitive Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 634	ok, the situation has become a lot more convoluted. To make a long story short, things became sexual again. I didn't really want it to, but I felt wanted. It was the worst sex we've had. Which was still ok. But it was bad. Afterwards, I felt very uncomfortable, and so I told him so. I felt uncomfy that the sex was bad, and that our relationship status was not clear. He told me that "I don't see us in a relationship. Ever. I'm sorry I'm always disappointing you (today in bed, in the relationship in general, and now by breaking things off). But you're awesome." I felt so used. And I started to cry. He felt horrible; he's not a bad guy. I told him, "maybe we shouldn't see each other for a while." He didn't seem happy with it, but he agreed. But then the next day, sex again. This time I initiated. And this time, he more or less pledged undying loyalty to me. We have a kinky sex life, but we really pushed the envelope that night. He said he wanted to my slave and to be owned by me. He woke up early to catch a plane for his business trip overseas. He offered to let me stay at his apt, which is also much closer to my work than my other apt.. I'm staying until Sunday. I'm also taking care of his cat. And now, I'm totally regretting it. I feel so uncomfortable in his apt. Yesterday, I found a big box of condoms, which freaked me out. We don't use condoms and I've cleaned every corner of his apt. before, so this is new. Some condoms were taken out. Of course, it's dangerous to make assumptions. And yet, even after finding the condoms, I sent him a cute "me and the cat - day 1" email, and then a sexually explicit email. We had talked about, how during his trip, I would send him sexual instructions. So, I thought I was being "cool" about it. I didn't mention the condoms at all. Now, these sexual instructions are time specific. And he hasn't responded. He responded to another email, where I asked him what day to take out the trash. But not to the sex email. Again, I feel so....used. And stupid. He tells me he doesn't want a relationship ever...then the next day, he tells me I'm the most amazing woman he's ever met and he wants me to sexually own him. And now, I feel like such an IDIOT sending any of the emails. I feel like I've lost all my personal power. Then again, I don't know, maybe it's just my ego talking. Right now, I'm struggling with what I want. What I do know: I don't want to be reactionary. I want to put all these high principles of PD into play. I want to live what I've been reading and discussing this past year. If that's the case, then my first instinct is to be unconditionally loving. As in, stop sending the sex emails. But keep sending the cat emails. Be kind and open to any communication. Never bring up the condoms. And just be cool and kind and open. Another instinct is to protect myself. I've been feeling nauseous about this entire thing from this morning. Not getting a response back from my sex email was pretty humiliating. In Tolle terms, my pain-body is going bananas. And I don't know how to stop the spiral into madness. The only saving grace is that he's thousands of miles away, I can't call or text him, and I haven't emailed him anything psycho. In order to protect myself, I just want to stop contacting him. I want to tell him to have his neighbors look after the cat. And I want to run away. I feel like being unconditionally loving would be the better choice. I would learn a lot. But it's very scary. I already feel used and humiliated and disempowered. From this negative state, it's tough to detach from the pain-body. I am trying to do Byron Katie's "Work" but I am overwhelmed by the incredible pain (which I'm sure is 10% the current situation pain, and 90% my past pain). So, I have all this awareness and a wealth of tools. But I feel stuck. I feel stuck in the lion's den. I feel stuck with pandora's condom box. I feel stuck with expectations that may never be fulfilled by him. I feel stuck in my own anxiety and want to hurt him/protect myself. How do I stay unconditionally loving? How do I let go of this tightness and nausea in my gut? How do I get through this?

03-11-2008, 11:58 AM	#11 (permalink)
mncz Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 175	Uber, you are making a big mistake (well, I made it too, so it must be quite common). I too thought that unconditional love meant finding a way to cope with whatever your significant other throws your way, "rising above it". Well, it does not. The pain you feel is a warning. Heed its call! You must first unconditionally love yourself. Ask yourself: is what you are having now the kind of relationship YOU want? Remember why you chose to have this break in the first place. Has that reason become invalid? Has something about him significantly changed? And why do you think that you should suppress your feelings for his benefit? Also, I have concluded that, in most cases, for men having sex is not equal to having relationship. So by this logic his two statements - about not seeing you two in relationship and about him wanting to be owned by you are in fact not contradictory. If you offer sex to a man, he will be more than happy to take it - but it does not mean that you are having a relationship. It's just sex, nothing more. I am at pain to express my point more clearly and with more logic, since what is happening to you is just so extremely similar to what happened to me recently that I just have this big red flashing light in my head that screams "get out of there, and fast". Perhaps I am relating to this in the wrong way, but I would suggest that you are extremely cautious and put your feelings and your well being above everything else. Since there is unlimited abundance in the world, you can freely discard things that do not fit you - it will only allow the things that do fit come to you sooner. Never be satisfied with a tiny bit of the cake - you can have it all.

03-11-2008, 12:10 PM	#12 (permalink)
Zane Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 58	my opinion, he doesn't concern on this very much. And when he dicided to take a break, that must be his fool decision, anyway u say he's good, and just keep the relation as if u want to, but i afraid that he would make up some more decision like this one, maybe he's not ready for a serious relation.

03-11-2008, 05:54 PM	#14 (permalink)
Angela Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 22,520	hey, Uber, my heart is with you -- I know how difficult and painful it can be when you're continually drawn to a lover with whom you're not your best self. When I was in that situation with the recovering heroin addict rockstar guy, I knew it was a terrible situation for me to put myself in, and I still put myself in it, and I was so full of shame and self-loathing. It really was a downward spiral. I knew for myself the only way to quit was cold-turkey -- zero contact. It hurt like hell. And it was what it took for me to break the cycle. I wish for you the clear sight of what it will take for you to break your pattern with this guy, and the courage to see it through. Whatever it is that will have you breaking this cycle of reactivating your old pain, that's where the huge life lesson for you is -- the experience of yourself as a powerful, loving, deserving, joyful person. Lots of love and best wishes to you in this. It's a blessing and a curse!

03-11-2008, 06:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
uberinquisitive Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 634	After some sleep and thinking - I decided to write him an apology email. Thing is, the guy has been solid from day 1. But me? With my borderline personality, plus the suicide of my fiance just 4 months earlier, plus all my baggage - I put him through a lot of pain. The worst he's done to me is not email or call for a few weeks. I've done much worse to him. I didn't write the apology email to "win" him back. Instead, I wrote it because I honestly feel remorseful and want to let him know that, although I openly blamed him for my unhappiness, he didn't cause any of it. I asked for his forgiveness, and explained that I was in such a bad mental state that I didn't know I was being hurtful towards him. I know I did the right thing. I am at peace with it. Now I can spend this week, while he's away, trying to figure what to do next. Maybe a true separation is the way to go.

03-11-2008, 08:35 PM	#16 (permalink)
Rick Abelson Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: DeWitt, Iowa Posts: 33	Don't forget the one true constant in all of this.....HE IS A GUY!! He doesn't want to believe that any other guy on the planet could possibly take his place. I know it doesn't make sense to a woman but that's the way it is. He is going to act like he does until some other woman starts catering to him. Cut the cord....he'll get over it!

03-13-2008, 05:55 AM	#18 (permalink)
xyz Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 70	Uberinquisitive, do you have a family? parents? siblings? cousins? grandparents? friends? if possible try taking a mini holiday with them. If you can get some toddlers to play with that will do wonders to you. Try it if possible. If none of these are possible why not head to some place noisy, hip hop, sunny and bright for a mere few days alone? Even if that too is impossible why not volunteer for some cause? Maybe you find satisfaction in doing something for others.

03-13-2008, 06:24 AM	#19 (permalink)
uberinquisitive Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 634	Going off on a mini-vacation does sound appealing. However, I always do this. I'm always moving around, trying to avoid dealing with stuff. I wonder if it's about time that I stand my ground. I've been using Tolle's suggestions of observing the pain-body. It's been a freaky experience. I'm sitting at a table, and across from me is an empty chair. Sitting in it, I can almost see "me" - not the ego me, but the deep, authentic, "core" me. She's dressed like me, looks like me. She just looks at me, with a lot of compassion. And I can see what she sees - this demon going in and out of me. This demon also looks like me, but is almost transparent, and has a menacing look in its eyes. Tolle says to just observe the "demon" without judgement or labels. And, also to observe the observer. Basically, be super aware and totally in the Now. How is it working for me? Well, I stopped my uncontrollable crying. It started again once I started thinking of worst case scenerios, but then I snapped my attention back to watching "Core" Uber observing the demon. And the tears immediately stopped. I'm now reading chapter 2 of "The Power of Now" and it's amazing just how deeply I identify with my mind/ego. I mean, all these years when I thought I was a self-aware person...I was really very self-aware of my ego! Even now, although I have been watching Oprah's webinar with Tolle and reading "The Power of Now" and "New Earth" I still find myself clinging to the ego and pain-body. And, I judge myself for it. Total ego. Total frustration because I want all this pain to go away, right now. I'm so impatient to be "cured."

03-13-2008, 04:04 PM	#20 (permalink)
Joely Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 517	If Tolle doesn't help, try Pema Chodron. I'm so sorry you're in this state. Be gentle with yourself, and don't try to make yourself into anything or fight with anything. I know how you feel - I'm impatient too. All I can do is send you love and say "this too will pass." Because it will, it always does. J x

03-13-2008, 04:27 PM	#21 (permalink)
xyz Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 70	Uberinquisitive, Warm hugs to you. You can try all the methods in different, and pleasant surroundings if you want. It will accelerate the process. Try doing something for others who REALLY needs you. Maybe you might see all these happenings in a different light. You are a REAL brave person and you will emerge out fine and stronger. Believe me. Lots of hugs to you again.

03-14-2008, 02:40 AM	#23 (permalink)
Angela Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 22,520	I know it hurts, and I'm sorry you have this pain. I think later you'll be glad to feel the temporary rip of the band-aid, rather than just being at the effect of him for some indefinite long-drawn out time (any more than you already have!) Lots of love and good wishes to you, Core Uber.

03-14-2008, 01:34 PM	#24 (permalink)
Joely Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 517	Hi again Uber, It's odd, I found myself thinking about you last night. It was two things: firstly we're both going through a lot of pain at the moment but for different reasons, and secondly, I've been in a similar situation where even though I think I should know better, I keep doing things that hurt me. I know that we read all of this stuff about dealing with life and self-development, and then the moment we get into deep pain it flies out the window. Deep down I think we still see pain as something bad, something that's unacceptable because we've done all this growth. But the thing is, it's not. Pain just is, we have pain because things happen we don't like and we get hurt. Telling ourselves off for it doesn't help - it just makes it worse. I was just going to suggest that you just allow yourself to feel whatever you're feeling. Don't label it or try to tell yourself to do certain things or think you should be feeling differently. Just accept what is for now, and what's happened. It might not be now, it might be some time before you realise it, but you'll look back on this as a stage of major growth. That's what I think at least. There's nothing wrong with you, you've done nothing wrong. You're OK, and it's OK for you to feel the way you do. We have an addiction to feeling good, and we think if we don't feel good, something's wrong. But it isn't. When I read all these books, whether it's Chodron or Tolle or any of the Buddhist theorists, the most important lesson there is just to accept what is, whether you label it as good or bad. Let it all flow through you. Listen to your thoughts, don't try to stop them, but you can learn from them: what are they telling you about what you believe deep down about yourself and what you're worth? I hope that helps - I'm still learning myself, J x

03-15-2008, 02:47 AM	#30 (permalink)
mncz Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 175	That Tolle quote about suffering is very true. Uber, I am an artist of sorts too. And I have long shed the belief that my creation has come from a painful place. I believe that one can create their best work when in a peaceful/joyful state of mind. Negative emotion put in art resonates with people on their ego level: it triggers their own pain bodies and they feel emotionally moved and, due to not knowing better, think "oh, this is real art" when in fact it is just exploiting and manipulation of ego/suffering. To the contrary, when a joyful/peaceful/enlightened emotion is put in art, it resonates with people on the level of soul. And that is art in it's purest form. I do graphic design and I think that it is partly because of my profession that I am able to relate to the ideas of Power of Now and LoA with such ease: I have recently observed that when I work, I enter Now. When I do some really nice pieces, there is nothing else on my mind, just the current moment and improving the current moment and making it perfect. It has nothing to do with suffering, but everything to do with being fully present. And the more present I feel, the better my works are. And on a slightly different note, I too have been in this situation where I know what is good for me, but keep harming myself. That is what was on my mind when I wrote previously in this thread "but if you will need this lesson, you will choose to have it". Your choices are not essentially right or wrong. They are the ones that you need to make to experience to learn whatever it is you are learning now. I send you all my love and support in your journey.

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