My friend's a huge "Talker"

[3nigma]

You all know talkers. They talk and talk, but nothing ever gets done. In fact, the things they talk about never even get started. It's a sad cycle.

I'm not one to talk either, I admit I'm a bit of a procrastinator, but not as bad as him. When I start something, I finish it. I can't STAND unfinished projects and such. So, do I just ignore it when he talks about something I KNOW he won't do? This is how a normal conversation occurs. The reason I have somewhat of a problem with it is because he uses it to feed his ego, the situation that HASN'T even occured.

Him - *Brings up event that will never happen, something he will PROBABLY not achieve, if history is an indicator*
Me - *I comment, maybe an "Alright, that'll probably never happen but okay."
Him - *Gets indignant, starts bragging, "Well, while I'm doing this you'll be doing nothing." Bragging on something that isn't even reality.*
Me - *I semi retaliate with "That's great, but it'll never happen. You're just talking, like every other time you've said this."*
(Then followed by an argument of whether or not he'll do it, which ends up not happening. I've put bets on some of the things he was supposed to do, and he refused to pay up because of something like "OH, well that didn't happen because I had this thing going, and that happened, and I wasn't able to do that. Blah, blah, blah.)

The guy lives in his head, and tries to get some sort of higher status over me by doing this. The question is, do I argue with him (As we mostly do, our relationship is kind of... dysfunctional but we're friends. It's weird. Like... House and Wilson on House M.D.) or do I ignore it, or something else.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

You all know talkers. They talk and talk, but nothing ever gets done. In fact, the things they talk about never even get started. It's a sad cycle.

I'm not one to talk either, I admit I'm a bit of a procrastinator, but not as bad as him. When I start something, I finish it. I can't STAND unfinished projects and such. So, do I just ignore it when he talks about something I KNOW he won't do? This is how a normal conversation occurs. The reason I have somewhat of a problem with it is because he uses it to feed his ego, the situation that HASN'T even occured.

Him - *Brings up event that will never happen, something he will PROBABLY not achieve, if history is an indicator*
Me - *I comment, maybe an "Alright, that'll probably never happen but okay."
Him - *Gets indignant, starts bragging, "Well, while I'm doing this you'll be doing nothing." Bragging on something that isn't even reality.*
Me - *I semi retaliate with "That's great, but it'll never happen. You're just talking, like every other time you've said this."*
(Then followed by an argument of whether or not he'll do it, which ends up not happening. I've put bets on some of the things he was supposed to do, and he refused to pay up because of something like "OH, well that didn't happen because I had this thing going, and that happened, and I wasn't able to do that. Blah, blah, blah.)

The guy lives in his head, and tries to get some sort of higher status over me by doing this. The question is, do I argue with him (As we mostly do, our relationship is kind of... dysfunctional but we're friends. It's weird. Like... House and Wilson on House M.D.) or do I ignore it, or something else.

I hate to sound rude, but why is his lack of ability to follow through your problem? He talks about doing things, and doesn't do them, but you don't actually need to be bothered by it, do you? His inability to do things is his issue, and there's really no need to argue with him and point out that he won't do them. If it was me, I might even say "Wow, that's exciting, how're you going to do that?" Do you even KNOW, and I mean know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he's trying to "get some sort of higher status over" you? Even if he is, he can only achieve that if you react and allow him to make you feel that way.

Bear in mind that it doesn't actually affect your life if he fails to follow through with anything he says he's going to do. I would take the lesson from this: don't talk big without action, and be grateful to him that he's in your life, providing you with so many excellent examples of what not to do with your life!

[3nigma]

Originally Posted by Joely

I hate to sound rude, but why is his lack of ability to follow through your problem? He talks about doing things, and doesn't do them, but you don't actually need to be bothered by it, do you?

I would take the lesson from this: don't talk big without action, and be grateful to him that he's in your life, providing you with so many excellent examples of what not to do with your life!

It's not that I'm bothered by it, like... bothered as in "Oh I can't believe he's going to try to do that and leave me in the dust" sort of thing. I don't care about that at all, I'm just annoyed when he talks about things that clearly aren't going to happen. How would you like having a friend around that says all types of things that never occur. In fact, the only time this guy ever does anything is when I do it first, and that's not a lie. But I'll take your advice and just shrug it off, see how that works. Next time he says something similar to this, I'll just say "Cool, that's great."

Oh, and I know. He taught me a very important lesson, and that is that I don't talk about anything until it's done. I think his whole problem is that when you talk about something, you lose energy in the thing you're talking about because you feel like just by talking about it you're doing something. Talk and action are two completely different things.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

It's not that I'm bothered by it, like... bothered as in "Oh I can't believe he's going to try to do that and leave me in the dust" sort of thing. I don't care about that at all, I'm just annoyed when he talks about things that clearly aren't going to happen. How would you like having a friend around that says all types of things that never occur. In fact, the only time this guy ever does anything is when I do it first, and that's not a lie. But I'll take your advice and just shrug it off, see how that works. Next time he says something similar to this, I'll just say "Cool, that's great."

Oh, and I know. He taught me a very important lesson, and that is that I don't talk about anything until it's done. I think his whole problem is that when you talk about something, you lose energy in the thing you're talking about because you feel like just by talking about it you're doing something. Talk and action are two completely different things.

Actually, I have known many people who are all talk and no action. The truth is this:

1. It's their life not mine and if they don't follow through, they're the only ones who screwed up.

2. It's my choice whether or not I let what they say and fail to do bother me.

I yammer on about what I'm going to do all the time, but I still manage to go and do it. He's probably too scared of actually taking action. I bet, deep down, he feels intimidated by you - and other people - because you take action and do things. Big Talkers hide their feelings of fear and incompetence behind big words and grand dreams. It is worth remembering that I expect he's driven by deep feelings of insecurity. The only reason to big yourself up is because you feel insecure and need other people to provide you with reassurance in the form of being impressed by you. And it never works.

My basic point is that you can't do anything about his behaviour and it's not your responsibility to; you can only do something about how you feel about his behaviour. I've started to ask myself, when I'm bothered by other people "Is this really my problem?" and it really works.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

I'm just annoyed when he talks about things that clearly aren't going to happen. How would you like having a friend around that says all types of things that never occur.

How would you, 3nigma, like to have friend around who believes that nothing you say will ever come to fruition? That the only time you ever do anything is when he does it first, "and that's no lie."

3nigma, look at who you are being as a friend first.

[3nigma]

Originally Posted by Angela

How would you, 3nigma, like to have friend around who believes that nothing you say will ever come to fruition? That the only time you ever do anything is when he does it first, "and that's no lie."

3nigma, look at who you are being as a friend first.

It's not like I did this from the getgo. The first load of times he did this, I went "Alright, I'll help out if you need anything." But after about a dozen times, I saw a pattern. Nothing was happening, so it started feeling like empty conversation after a while. You have to understand, when he talks about this sort of stuff it's not a few sentences. It's about a half hour convo between us.

[Angela]

So you have your good reasons for believing that nothing he says will ever come to fruition. You have evidence.

And I ask you again: How would you feel if you had a friend who believed that nothing you say will ever come to fruition? Do you think you would agree with whatever evidence he had, or would you just feel sort of crappy that your friend doesn't believe in you? What could that friend say to you that would make a difference for you?

In other words, what kind of a friend would YOU want you to be?

[3nigma]

Originally Posted by Angela

So you have your good reasons for believing that nothing he says will ever come to fruition. You have evidence.

And I ask you again: How would you feel if you had a friend who believed that nothing you say will ever come to fruition? Do you think you would agree with whatever evidence he had, or would you just feel sort of crappy that your friend doesn't believe in you? What could that friend say to you that would make a difference for you?

In other words, what kind of a friend would YOU want you to be?

Are you kidding? If someone did that to me, it'd make me even MORE resilient to finish whatever I was talking about. "You'll never do that." "Oh, yeah? We'll see about that." It's just tough love. You, being a woman I assume, have a different relationship with other women than a man does with other men.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

Are you kidding? If someone did that to me, it'd make me even MORE resilient to finish whatever I was talking about. "You'll never do that." "Oh, yeah? We'll see about that." It's just tough love. You, being a woman I assume, have a different relationship with other women than a man does with other men.

And have you tried that technique with your friend? If so, how did he respond? If not, why not?

As for me, personally, I make sure my friends and I believe in each other; I don't think that has anything to do with my gender.

[Groovebox]

If he's really a good friend of yours, then maybe you could make observations as to why things never work out for him, and even offer advice for how he can be more successful in later attempts? If he has an ego about it, then there's really not a lot you can do about that, and you shouldn't let it bother you either. What good is a friendship if all you two like to do is argue over who's right and who's wrong?

[3nigma]

Originally Posted by Groovebox

If he's really a good friend of yours, then maybe you could make observations as to why things never work out for him, and even offer advice for how he can be more successful in later attempts? If he has an ego about it, then there's really not a lot you can do about that, and you shouldn't let it bother you either. What good is a friendship if all you two like to do is argue over who's right and who's wrong?

Relationships DO need an argument every now and then. It strengthens the relationship. We don't argue ALL the time, but we have our scuffles. Especially when it comes to strongly held point of views about certain things. Arguments are natural in the human social ladder of things. Think of it as a struggle for status and leadership. Animals challenge the pack leader ALL the time, and if the leader doesn't fight back they win and become the new pack leader. We're on the same level, around.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

The guy lives in his head

You know, there are various personality types: the leader, the controller, the executor, the visionary, and so on. What if this guy is a visionary? It's their very function to have plenty of ideas and not to finish any of them. (I know that, I'm one too )

Or else he may have a problem. Have you ever asked him why he never finishes his projects?

tries to get some sort of higher status over me by doing this.

I really don't see that in what you wrote. In my eyes this is an issue of yours, not something that has to do with him. I have plenty of ideas I never realize, but telling my friends about them is for sure not a way to get some higher status over them. Maybe he's just enthusiastic about his new idea?

The question is, do I argue with him (As we mostly do, our relationship is kind of... dysfunctional but we're friends. It's weird. Like... House and Wilson on House M.D.) or do I ignore it, or something else.

I find it strange to have such a negative reaction. Why don't you just talk with him about why he doesn't do it or about how he could do it? Even "Alright, I'll help out if you need anything." doesn't sound that interested, honestly.

I would find it not that funny to have a friend just telling me "ugh, you won't do it anyway" or "well ok, if you need me, tell me" when I have some new great idea. Can't you imagine a more empowering way to be his friend in a way that suits his character?

[3nigma]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I would find it not that funny to have a friend just telling me "ugh, you won't do it anyway" or "well ok, if you need me, tell me" when I have some new great idea. Can't you imagine a more empowering way to be his friend in a way that suits his character?

I'll tell you why, because I'm included in most of his "visions." He planned on me and him doing certain things together, businessy, money making projects. I was attracted to the idea at first, but he never did even the first step. So I eventually got disappointed because of it, so I stopped taking it seriously.

Imagine a friend telling you things like "Soon, we're starting something big. You and me won't have to work jobs, we'll have this and that going on. I'm going to do this, you'll do this and everything will be amazing. I can see it now." So I was like "Oh yeah? Sign me up, hell yes." But to this day, nothing has happened on these big projects. I don't wanna give it away, trying to stay anonymous for obvious reasons, but yeah.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Angela

And have you tried that technique with your friend? If so, how did he respond? If not, why not?

3nigma, these were sincere questions, not rhetorical.

[Rose of Cairo]

Ah! First I thought it was plans for himself. Now it appears that it's plans about the two of you.

Originally Posted by 3nigma

I was attracted to the idea at first, but he never did even the first step. So I eventually got disappointed because of it, so I stopped taking it seriously.

So if I understand you correctly, you were interested, but waited for him to do it. I'm not surprised that nothing happened then. If he's planning for the two of you, and you don't do anything, why should he finish/do it all alone?

Imagine a friend telling you things like "Soon, we're starting something big. You and me won't have to work jobs, we'll have this and that going on. I'm going to do this, you'll do this and everything will be amazing. I can see it now."

Well, if I imagine a friend telling me such a thing, it's clear to me that he expects us to work together on that. He wants to share these projects with you, not do everything for you.

So I was like "Oh yeah? Sign me up, hell yes."

"oh yeah?" == mistrust.
"sign me up" == "I won't do anything on my own. I wait for others to do it".

What I'm seeing is your lack of activity. You're completely passive. You're not in the slightest committed to these projects. Honestly, if I had an idea involving a friend of mine, and he says yes, but with your obvious lack of enthusiasm and activity, I wouldn't put any effort in the project either. That would be wasted energy, since he would have to do everything for the two of you and motivate you additionally.

Maybe he's trying to get you motivated with his long enthusiastic speeches? How about becoming active? Visualizing with him? Talking about the project? Take concrete action towards the goal? YOU?

[3nigma]

Rose, it'd make more sense if I told you WHAT it was. I honestly would not have to do anything until he started things. I couldn't. It's not that kind of thing.

He'd have to set up around 3 - 4 things before I could even BEGIN helping/doing things in the so called "project." If you must know, it's being an actor in a giant film thing he's going to do. Now you see, what can I possibly do for him if he's supposed to write the script completely by himself (He gave himself that responsibility, and doesn't want me helping. Then he told me he's going to have to make a website for it, again... something I'm not doing. He's the one with the camera, and everything.

My thing in the whole role would be acting as various characters in it. Thus, the "Sign me up" part.

[Rose of Cairo]

Hmmm... ok, I get what you're saying.

Still, you can wait in a passive way, or wait in an active, committed, interested way. It's a matter of inner attitude, and he feels it. I'm still getting a feeling that you're not really interested and committed in those projects. Am I wrong?

And if you just told him straightforward that you're not interested in working with him, and don't want to hear about all these aborted projects anymore?

[mncz]

I had a business with a "talker" once. I would not recommend doing anything together with such a person.

It was the place and time where I learned that words are cheap and I should always look at what a person actually DOES to see the truth about them. I learned to see facts behind the talk and it has helped me a great deal since then.

What I would do in such a situation: I would express sincere and honest interest about the project and then forget about it until the other person does or does not his job. If he never does it, I will not have wasted my time in empty anticipation, if he does - well, a great surprise for me! I would never plan my life around empty words. There is always a time to reschedule if his words turn into works, but until then there are plenty of other exciting opportunities to go around.

[3nigma]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Hmmm... ok, I get what you're saying.

Still, you can wait in a passive way, or wait in an active, committed, interested way. It's a matter of inner attitude, and he feels it. I'm still getting a feeling that you're not really interested and committed in those projects. Am I wrong?

And if you just told him straightforward that you're not interested in working with him, and don't want to hear about all these aborted projects anymore?

I DO want a part in the project. You don't understand, I basically quit my job with the intention of doing this seriously. Well, okay it wasn't like THAT, I quit my job because it sucked and I couldn't stand it any longer, but I had a slight hope that I could do this instead. Now it seems it's not happening. The guy's just extremely lazy. I'm not being hard on him either, I know what happens. He gets a slight thunderbolt of inspiration every now and then, but he can't MAINTAIN it. So somedays he'll be like. "Hey, man. I got the script for one of the skits started." So I reply "Cool, let me know when you're gonna film and what I have to do." Then I'll never hear about it until a month afterwards.

Originally Posted by mncz

I had a business with a "talker" once. I would not recommend doing anything together with such a person.

I wholeheartedly agree. This guy just isn't committed. Even if we did start things, he doesn't have the leadership qualities needed for such a thing. He's not organized enough, and I have a slight feeling it would fall apart soon after. I don't work with other people as a general rule of thumb. I just had so many bad experiences with it. People sometimes wouldn't hold up their responsibility in the project, other times they'd be late, and rarely it would get completed but it wouldn't meet my standards. Why let someone else do something if you can do it better? I believe that, unless it's something you absolutely cannot do and the other person is a professional at it.

[Dive Bomb]

As long as your friend is not pulling you down with him than ignoring it is fine. I think it would be a problem if he had an effect on achieving your goals. I know somebody who likes to talk about what he wants to/should do, but he never does it. Yes, I know what you mean with the "sign me up" act that they like to pull on you. "This is going to be a such good idea, can you like work on 'insert stupid project that you know will fail from the get-go here'.

What I usually say when that happens to me is "Let me know how it's coming and I'll see if I can do anything." They never let me know how it's going ever again , and plus it doesn't committ to anything. It basically puts the ball in thier court.