Abortion or not?

[mncz]

Hello, everyone.
I have to ask this and I hope for advice and support, since I am in a very bad place right now.

I have recently learned that I am pregnant from my ex. Since he is an emotionally abusive person (the kind that only wants attention to himself and his misery and tramples all over other people who try to help him), I see no possibility of us raising this kid together. He does not want the kid. He thinks that it would ruin his life (now consisting of mostly playing computer games, watching tv and dreaming of blonde skinny chicks (I am blonde! and quite skinny! and pretty! but nooo, I am too accessible and too loving). He says he is disgusted by the view of future with me and our baby in it. I gave him time to reconsider. I was caring and loving and understanding. Nop, no result. He wants me to get abortion right away. God, that got me crying all night.

So, no future there

It is still early weeks of the pregnancy and I am unsure of what to do. A baby is a responsibility. I want to give all the best to my children. I did not have a proper father and I know what a gaping emotional hole it leaves in persons life. I am sure I will have enough money to support both of us. But I cant give him (I already know the baby is a boy - I can just feel it) the love and care and knowledge that a father can give him. He will grow up and ask questions about his father and what will I tell him? How will he feel? Will other men ever want to have a relationship with me? How will my boy feel when I will be in relationship with a person who is not his father?

I don't feel ready. I have so much unstable positions in my life right now - no proper home, no drivers licence, no relationship, no safe future. I so want to enjoy life for a while, find myself. I just started out on making myself a better person, making plans for my life that are big and daring and would last, a life that would settle me and give me home and roots. Will I be able to make it while having a child to care about? (I know, how horrible and egoistic this sounds, but I have to ask this). Or will I be one of those always tired, angry, single moms who feel their life has been ruined/ended too soon by an unexpected child?

Then again, I believe that babies arrive for a reason. Perhaps my baby wants to have a life without his biological father? Perhaps he needs this lesson from this life? Who am I to decide?

Please don't judge me, I am really trying to make a responsible decision that would be best for everyone. I know perfectly clear that I will have to care for the child and there will be only a very limited support from other people.

[JimOfferman]

I personally think there is only one question that matters here: do you want this child? If you feel a child would just be a burden to you then, please, please have the abortion. Don't let your son be nothing more than the afterthought of a broken relationship!

If, on the other hand, you absolutely want to be the loving mother who welcomes her child into this world no matter what, then let nothing stand in your way.

That's what I think.

[Joely]

I agree with Jim. This is YOUR choice, nobody else's. Whatever decision you make will change your life forever, and you'll probably always wonder what the opposite choice might have brought into your life.

You sound to me like an intelligent, stable human being who would be able to cope with whatever choice - many children grow up with only one parent, and you can never tell at this stage how he or she might feel about having a stepfather. Non-biological parents can be just as wonderful, if not more wonderful, than the biological ones! (Wow, I make them sound like washing powder!)

On the other hand, this will change your life for good. A child is absolutely for life. You can't get six months down the line and decide you don't want him after all, or a year, or two years. Don't worry about whether or not he'll ever have a father. Just think about whether or not you're ready to raise him. I don't think there's a right or wrong choice here. You can only know where you are now, and make the best judgement about what to do from here.

And I think whatever decision you make, you'll have the emotional intelligence to cope.

[mncz]

To be completely honest, I don't trust my feelings at all at this moment.

When I first understood that the baby is on his way, I was very confused, but at the same time I was very happy. On that instant I decided that I want the baby and that I would do everything to have it.

Then real life kicked in: the denial from my ex.. I so hoped that his decision would be different, the whole experience with him put me in a lot of pain. He was all like "you don't know how tough it is to raise a child.. you're living in a dream world.. you don't know what you're doing.. I don't want to be any part of this.."

My mother thinks as well that I am not ready for this. She pointed out all the blurry aspects of my life I mentioned in previous post.

Perhaps I just want this baby as a one last attempt to fix my relationship with my ex? Then again, no, no way. But perhaps I want to prove him that I am this so-much-better-person-than-he-is? Point is, I am still emotionally connected to this situation and thus I can't evaluate it neutrally.

Would I feel guilty for the rest of my life because of killing an innocent being who has chosen me to be his mother? Would I be a horrible person if I did not felt that way?

I want this baby, but I am so very very afraid.

[NotesMaeve]

How far along are you? Would you entertain adoption? Open adoption maybe?

[mncz]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

How far along are you? Would you entertain adoption? Open adoption maybe?

4 weeks, and our country allows children to be adopted to other countries only if they are seriously ill.

You got me thinking

If I would carry out through the pregnancy, I would keep the child for myself since I am absolutely sure that by the day of delivery I would love him way too much to give away.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by mncz

I want this baby, but I am so very very afraid.

The problem is we can't make that decision for you. As much as I would love to give you wise counsel that made up your mind, I simply can't. It's your body, your life, and your child.

I wonder if you're not overthinking this. You're going over and over so many different ramifications, which is completely natural. But your heart knows what's right, if you'll listen to it. Whatever it says, whether it's abortion, adoption, open adoption, keeping the child, then you should go with that.

I've had a couple of friends go through abortions because the father refused to have anything to do with the child. Although it was an intensely difficult choice to make, they know they both did the right thing for themselves. They weren't in a place to be mothers, or even to go through a full pregnancy. But it is, I have to stress, your choice and you will need, whatever you do, to take full responsibility for making that choice. No matter what decision you make, there is no escape from the consequences, I'm afraid.

I recommend that you speak to a counsellor about this.

[Joely]

Originally Posted by mncz

4 weeks, and our country allows children to be adopted to other countries only if they are seriously ill.

You got me thinking

If I would carry out through the pregnancy, I would keep the child for myself since I am absolutely sure that by the day of delivery I would love him way too much to give away.

It sounds to me like you actually want to keep this child. If that's true, then I say that's what you should do.

[mncz]

Originally Posted by Joely

I wonder if you're not overthinking this. You're going over and over so many different ramifications, which is completely natural. But your heart knows what's right, if you'll listen to it. Whatever it says, whether it's abortion, adoption, open adoption, keeping the child, then you should go with that.

Yes I am overthinking. It was all fine until yesterday, but then stuff happened, lots of negative/doubtful opinions came my way and negativity just took over. I just want to be sure about my decision and I need to talk.

Many thanks for your support

[freddy]

Kick the ex to the curb for good. Keep the baby. Yes it will be hard, but the joy you recieve from that boy throught the years will be worth it. Plus you never have to deal, with the emotinal scar that you will carry for years from having an abortion. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

[Angela]

Why don't you find a quiet spot and do a meditation in which you ask the little soul for his advice? He's in a pretty good position to give you fresh wisdom. Maybe he's committed to incarnating here with you in a few months. Maybe the lesson he's here to give you doesn't necessarily include him being born this time. Maybe he is here to guide you in living a life you love, whether he is born or not.

[mncz]

Originally Posted by Angela

Why don't you find a quiet spot and do a meditation in which you ask the little soul for his advice? He's in a pretty good position to give you fresh wisdom. Maybe he's committed to incarnating here with you in a few months. Maybe the lesson he's here to give you doesn't necessarily include him being born this time. Maybe he is here to guide you in living a life you love, whether he is born or not.

I am inexperienced with meditations. How can I differ between stuff that I make up in my own head (I have vivid imagination) and information that I actually receive from a spiritual entity?

[mncz]

Earlier today I sat down and, doing my best to be sincere to myself and being reasonable, wrote down things about my life and how having a baby would change them.

1) Money. my finances are ok. I have sold my property (I posted about it on the LoA part of the forum) and thus will not experience severe financial shortages. Plus I work from home, thus I can continue working to a limited extent even when the baby is very small.

2) Emotions. I am currently just learning to be a happy, loving person and I still experience emotional pitfalls - a day or two when I feel completely unhappy, unloved and miserable, particularly few days before my monthly cycle. During that time I can cry, talk garbage, isolate myself from communication with other people etc.etc. They follow me from a rough childhood and my last relationship did not contribute to improve them. But I can work on that and a child would be a good motivation to finally get this part of me sorted and set.

3) Driving. I can acquire drivers licence in a few months and classes for that are starting day after tomorrow. I am also able to afford a car.

4) Home. I can also either long-term rent or mortgage an apartment or house and make it as beautiful as I have always dreamed about.

5) Relationship. I believe that if I make my life happy and fulfilling, a beautiful and loving relationship will come to me in its due time and whether or not I have a child will not be the main reason whether this relationship will or will not happen (my mom is particularly concerned about this, since bad relationship choices run in our family for generations).

6) My own life. Most of my favorite activities will not be severely affected whether or not I have a baby. I like to read, watch movies, take long walks in the park, tend to home and garden (flowers!), I do a lot of things on the computer, and my job is entirely computer based (graphic design). I am not in a position where I need to attend public events or travel a lot - ie, events that could be troublesome to attend with a child. Actually having him most probably will make me a lot more social person than I currently am, since I will HAVE to get out more

7. Beliefs. I am pro-life to a reasonable extent and unless I find a convincing reason to terminate pregnancy, I would feel ashamed, guilty and unworthy for choosing abortion. If the baby is here just for the particular reason to show me what a person my ex really is (I finally saw that brilliantly on our conversations about my pregnancy), how and why I make relationship choices that make me unhappy or that I should finally get on making myself a truly happy, loving and abundant person, then I will have miscarriage when I understand these truths completely.

I will also meditate and perhaps even get a reading from Erin, but right now it seems that having the baby would be a good choice, one that would make me more grown-up, responsible (I have in many ways still gotten away with a lot of childish behavior) and happy.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by mncz

I am inexperienced with meditations. How can I differ between stuff that I make up in my own head (I have vivid imagination) and information that I actually receive from a spiritual entity?

mncz, you ARE a spiritual entity.

This sounds like the perfect time to start meditating, with a focus on self-trust, regardless of the choice you make in your current situation!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

It sounds like you would be a very capable and thoughtful mother. I do not presume to know what is best for you, but I wish you peace and strength in whatever you decide to do. I can imagine how difficult this decision feels to you, but I am confident you will make the right one.

[Erock]

It's up to you completely, but I wouldn't let society hold you back from getting an abortion. I think the amount of energy we put into the issue is absurd, regardless of one's beliefs about it.

Erock

[uberinquisitive]

mncz - I also agree that you sound as if you would be a capable and self-aware mother. It is especially nice to hear that you are financially capable, and able to spend a lot of time with the baby.

My question is: do you have a support network? Your family, friends, etc. People who would help you out with babysitting, or emotional support. I believe this is very important for your own mental health.

Also - do you have excellent health insurance? This is vitally important when children are involved.

[mncz]

Angela: sometimes it astounds me how sometimes I can overlook the most basic things in my reasoning. Many thanks.
aspiring and uberinquisitive: many thanks for your kind words

Regarding friends: I have mother and sister that have agreed to help me out from time to time. We are on very good terms and I can always talk to them about things that bother me. I also intend to make more friends.

Regarding health insurance: no, I do not have one. Main reason - I am this odd person who is never ever sick, and since I am self-employed, I saw no reason to buy one. Health care is also relatively cheap here (I am in Latvia, Eastern Europe). I will get it straight away though, thanks for reminding, since this is extremely important.

[ticktockclok]

I see abortion as a baby paying for someone else's mistake. Just my beliefs.

[Rose of Cairo]

I've never been pregnant, but I can imagine that this must be a tough decision. No matter what you decide, mncz, you have all my support, best wishes and a hug

[oberlee]

Hi mncz,

I've been sort of in your position. I did get pregnant about a year ago and chose not to keep it. It was the right decision for me, my family, my relationship with my boyfriend, and for the baby. Everyone feels differently about babies and abortion. It's important you really soul-search on this one and find out how you truly feel, and I think coming here to this forum is a good step to take. So, congrats!

You really just have to do what's right. Maybe seek a spiritual adviser, a counselor, or even just a friend. I will say this: don't have an abortion if you think at all that you'd regret it later. Some people take the quick way out and then regret it--either for moral reasons or because they end up never having children, and I'm sure that's a horrible, horrible feeling. Also, some people have children and then might resent the child, or resent themselves for not being the 'perfect' parent.

Good luck!!! Much love to you!

[mncz]

Originally Posted by Angela

Maybe the lesson he's here to give you doesn't necessarily include him being born this time. Maybe he is here to guide you in living a life you love, whether he is born or not.

I have been thinking about your words this entire week, Angela.
(Sorry, this will be a very long post)

Three days ago, my ex called. He said that basically he feels wrong and that we should meet and talk. We met, we talked. He said that he cannot live without me and, although he is not ready for the child, he feels that if he is here, we should give it a shot. He also stated that I am the most important person in his life and he wants to marry me, but at the same time he stated that he will always chase other women to soothe his ego. But he will always return home, he said, and I would be the foundation of it. Since I felt numb and a bit sick, I sort of agreed to see where it takes us.

Needless to say, it did not work. The same night he got drunk and kept drinking for three days in a row. I went to my place on the second day, since I felt extremely sick (apparently I am on the onset of the morning sickness, since I have felt continuously sick for the last 5 days or so). When I got back to him on the next day, he was still drunk, told me how he had been angry at me for leaving and bought a 800$ whore while I was gone last night and scared her to death with his psycho-stuff. He felt really proud about it. Then he left me alone for a few minutes and went to toilet.

I stood there in his kitchen and asked myself: is this the life I want? Is this what I deserve? Is this the life I want to live for 20 years? I remembered myself throwing up the previous night, sitting in my toilet alone and quite helpless and understood that the relationship I and my ex would have would not give me any support, to the contrary, I would be required to continuously "carry" him. And with or without him, there will be noone there for me during this pregnancy. It is bad now (I feel really sick and unable to do much) and it will apparently get worse through the next months. Moreover, I realised, I do not love him anymore. The love I felt for him, the one that was larger than life, uplifting, keeping me warm and tingly whenever I was with him, is gone. No more singing birds in me for him.

I have always lived my life for others. For my parents, then for the people I was in relationship with. I always tried to be the best person, putting needs of other people before my own. For my current ex I was a shining light and caretaker for an entire year. I believed that if I love him enough, if I am happy for him, his wounds will heal, his depression will go away. That I can save him. A significant time of my life has been spent in the mode of "damage control" - fighting for survival: after I left home at 18 without much money or a permanent job, after my first business crashed with significant losses due to a stealing partner. And I asked myself: is this what I want? More damage control? More living for others? Or can I for once choose what is good for ME? Stop caring about, loving, lifting, enabling others and for once love myself? Live a life that I love? My life, not someone elses. And what would constitute the life that I love?

I just turned around, took my clothes and left.

He called me later, threatened with suicide, how he will jump from the bridge, cut his veins. I was surprised at how empty I felt about it. I know his suicidal tendencies, and I know that he only uses them to attract more attention to himself. He is in therapy and on pills for 2 months now due to being diagnosed with clinical depression, but I am really not sure if it is actually working. And he is seeing the best therapist there is in this country... I told him that there is no way our relationship can continue and asked him to never disturb me again.

This same day I also decided I will not keep the baby. It sounds as a terribly selfish thing to do, since the reasons for this decision is extremely selfish. I want children, but I want them when I am in a happy place, in a home I have made for myself, full with love and soothing energy. The whole 26.5 years of my life I have never truly lived for myself, I do not even know what I like, what I love about life, what I want. I want children in a relationship when there is the other person to take care of me, to pat my hair after I throw up, to hold my hand when I go to the doctor, to put me to sleep when I feel sick, to be there for me. I have been strong for too long, always taking responsibilities, always trying to help others, always working late to finish the next project. I want my children to come to a place where there is lots of love and safety ready for them, where they are expected with love and care. Right now I cannot offer my unborn child such a place. Although the logical reasons I stated earlier are still true, the whole larger setting behind them is not right. I don't know how to love myself. How can I love my child then?

And odd thing is, if all of this would not have happened, I would never have asked myself these questions and gotten the answers. I would have probably married my ex, only to discover later what a person he really is. I would have continued to "go with the flow", always trying to be likeable for others, never taking real care of myself, living a half-life.

I know that my baby's soul will go back to where the souls live, alive and intact. I will mourn him for a while and then go out and live how he has taught me to live: with dignity, integrity and love to myself and then others, finding a truly loving relationship and being happy... for the first time in my life.

Although this must have been one of the hardest lessons of my life, it is also one of the most valuable and I am grateful for it.

Thank you, Angela, for your wisdom.

[Joely]

You're a very wise soul indeed.

[Gozunn]

I can't really imagine what you're going through and even though this is supposedly my 'opinion' I can't really say I can tolerate anything else. Before I give my harsh critisicm from a total I-don't-know-what-you're-going-through point of view I'd first like to say: don't act too fast. I know you've considered the repercussions and have looked over the issues time and time again, make sure you KNOW its the right choice. Right now, as I'm sure you know, your body is being influenced by hormones out of your control. Make sure your emotions are coming from within you. Give it time.

Now...I never really did see the whole point of an abortion. If you don't want the baby-fine, put it up for adoption. A life is too valuable to throw away like that. Sure you suffer for what- 9 months of your life. But you're destroying an entire person in there. I always imagined what I'd do if my mother told me I was adopted. I'd tell her she was still my mother because she's the one that raised me, this does not mean that my biological mother would count for nothing but she'd be just a 'close' person if I met her in the future. I don't believe you have a right to take away that child's life. I don't believe you should be given the responsability. Its too much on your hands! A person is your son or daughter because of their values and their morals not because of their biology! How can no one else see it like this??I just can't understand you people and the importance you give to your genes. WHO CARES?? You're either his mother or you're not. Don't worry there were many parentless children who still made it in the real world. But that's HIS path to take not yours. How can you say "I don't want this child to think his mother abandoned him" how can you anticipate what he's going to feel and then make it a fact? How can you think about how YOU would feel? You've mentioned that its a selfish thing to do- I agree with you its an incredibly selfish thing to do. If you don't want the baby put it up for adoption DON'T kill it. Don't worry they'll find someone to take care of them. You're just afraid that in the future he will give you one hell of a bashing and then you will feel horrible and all that- and that in itself IS selfish. You're afraid of confrontation so MUCH that you're willing to sacrifice his life. You can escape him or face him later but don't kill him for god's sake.

I know a 16 year old girl who is pregnant and is going to go along with it (so far), and this poor girl got pregnant on her very first time. She's a quiet girl and is now in a world of total trauma but she never ever shows it. Someone told me about it (I scolded them because they treat it as some type of gossip). I'm not saying you should be like this girl, but I for one admire this girl because she's brave, and even though you can't help but feel this way make sure you do the right thing. When its only you that's involved you don't have to do the right thing, but when someone else is involved (i:e the father;your baby) you have to do right thing or otherwise you're not a good person.

My own brother and his girlfriend had an 'accident', he isn't sure whether he loves his partner but he sure as hell loves his daughter and even though she's going to make life a hell of a lot more difficult for him, she is a part of him. And when I see her I just can't imagine how I'd hate him if he had taken the easy way out. Because that's what abortion is really- an easy way out.

There: that's my 2c right there. I was very harsh and inconsiderate and I judged you after you asked us politely not to. I'm not saying that I'm perfect. I don't know what I'd do in your situation. I'm probably just all-talk and when push comes to shove and reality sets in I'll react like you or maybe worse than you but I know that what I'm saying NOW is the right way to do things and by right I mean doing right by the people around you. I'm really sorry for the position you are in and I know I willl get alot of harsh comments for what I said to you. You can't help the way you feel right? You aren't perfect, no one is. But I just can't close my eyes when someone else's life is involved even though that life is your son or daughter's. But I'm of the opinion that my life is mine-and has always been mine, just because my mother once had the power to destroy it doesn't mean its not mine all the same. There is a person inside you- and you are sacrificing nine months of your life. Nine painful months that might change your life forever but its not irrepairable and neither is your baby's trauma. Since there is hope why just give up so easily?

I'm really really sorry for these comments especially at this point in your life and if it had been just an opinion I would've been more considerate but I can't see how anyone could see it differently. Forgive me for my bigotism and my utter ignorance.

You are in this situation not me and in the end I reluclantly say that you should still go by your feelings because you might regret it. Sure I attempted to sway you but don't be pressured into a decision, take your time and consider all the variables. Now then..you may all throw the sharpest of daggers at me.

[mncz]

Thank you, Gozunn, I have considered this point of view for the most part of last week. This way of thinking was the reason why I could not make my mind up about it for so long.

I want you to understand that my decision is not one of fear. I do not fear my future with or without the child. As I stated before, there is nothing I should fear if I decide to keep the child. But there is also nothing to fear if I decide to not to have him at this time. I have made my decision out of love: I have become aware that I do not know how to love myself, thus, I will be unable to love the child as he deserves it. Loving oneself after 26 years of not knowing or doing anything like it, can take some time to achieve and I need to be alone to achieve it. I am not in a position to take full responsibility of another human being at this time, since I can't yet take full responsibility of myself.

I know that I am not killing my child. I am merely breaking our contract and he will have another chance to return to this existence if he chooses so. I am extremely grateful about the guidance he has provided me, and trust me, this lesson I will keep with me for my life. I know that by doing this I have karma stacking up that I will have to work through one day. But all of this had to happen to open my eyes to how valuable my life is and how valuable I am and how I should always remember it.

And on a rather practical note, I feel sick these days, but I am not operating under hormones, since I know myself enough to know my behavioral patterns when I do (I have quite serious PMS issues etc.). Last week I have felt very calm and sure of what I am doing. I haven't had any drama in my head whatsoever, and I can be quite a drama queen sometimes.

On another rather practical note, you are not the only one who judges me about this decision. The gynaecologist I visited today was quite harsh on me too. But my family supports me, and that is a very big relief for me in this time. And I don't feel guilty or scared, reading your post, thus I know that I don't have those feelings in me and actually it confirms once more that my decision is right.

[Nelson]

Assuming abortion is legal where you are from, no one is going to force you have the baby.

I was almost aborted (my parents were 16 when my mom got pregaant). I am strongly agaisnt aboprtion because of this.

Anything that is human or will be human in the near future has the right to life.

I beg you to consider adoption.

[mncz]

Do you still blame your mother for considering abortion, Nelson?

[Angela]

Everybody's got an opinion and the only choice that matters here is yours, mncz. You sound like you are generating peace, love, and joy, and I am celebrating that with you.

I am REALLY super-celebrating that you have kicked that man to the curb! What a life you would have sentenced yourself to, being with him! Yikes. Close call!

Please keep us posted on how you're doing.

Lots of love,
Angela

[Joely]

Totally behind you, girl. And I second Angela!

[Logodae]

Mncz: It seems very clear to me that you're making the right decision, not just for yourself, but for your future children. You've made the best of a bad situation, and it seems like you've grown in the process -- I think you're going to be creating better situations for yourself in the future. I know I don't know you, and I know this is about the third cliche in this paragraph, but: I'm happy for you.


Nelson: If your parents had not had sex, you would not have been born. Even if they had waited and had sex when they were older and married, you would not have been born -- a different sperm and a different egg would have produced a different baby, with different genes.

I'm sure, at 16, your mother considered not having sex. Would her abstinence have been wrong, because it would have prevented your existence? If not... why is abortion any different?