Doomed people

[3nigma]

I feel some people are just doomed. What do I mean? You all know this example.

A man of already low intelligence whose ego is so corrupted that he cannot receive new information, and can't even accept constructive critism from other people because his views are the "way." Thus, he cannot see that he is doomed to fail in life. Having a pesimistic view of the world in which 'Everyone is out to screw you over.' These conditioned thought patterns are cemented deeply into their conscious minds.

Repeating the same things for most of the week, they do the same things, think the same thoughts, say the same things, etc. They don't grow, don't read new books, don't exercise, etc.

The problem being is that they cannot recognize their own mistakes and flaws because they can't even become aware of them. When you try to show them, they become defensive and their ego is strengthened, and their intelligence is down almost near the mental retardation levels. Some people very close to me were like this, and I saw them the other day after a loooong period of not seeing them. They seriously looked on the brink of death. Extremely Overweight, tired looking, drained of the energy of life. I wanted to say "What happened to you?!"

Is there anything you can do to help these poor souls? I want to, but at the same time when I try to they just revert to their OS software "Defensive Ego!"

[Old Soul]

Yep!! I hear your frustration

My FIL, is always on gaurd , always ready to defend his fragile ego, he has more accounts on people than an accountant of the mafia lol

what is really sad is that the majority of these so called "wrongs" done to him are imagined they are not even real wrongs.,

[Angela]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

I feel some people are just doomed... he cannot see that he is doomed to fail in life. Having a pesimistic view of the world in which 'Everyone is out to screw you over.' These conditioned thought patterns are cemented deeply into their conscious minds.

This is a very funny attitude if you examine it.

Is there anything you can do to help these poor souls? I want to, but at the same time when I try to they just revert to their OS software "Defensive Ego!"

Big surprise -- you have a deeply ingrained attitude that these "poor souls" are "doomed", and yet they get defensive when you try to "help." Like there is something wrong with them that you want them to fix -- and you're willing to help them fix their wrongness!

If you really want to help them be free, positive and accepting, I suggest really generating being free, positive and accepting with those people.

[3nigma]

Originally Posted by Angela

If you really want to help them be free, positive and accepting, I suggest really generating being free, positive and accepting with those people.

That's not going to work either. They're still going to think you have some sort of hidden motive and they'll STILL perceive you as an enemy.

[sheffy4]

3nigma, are you describing President Bush?

[3nigma]

Originally Posted by sheffy4

3nigma, are you describing President Bush?

I suppose he fits the category.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

That's not going to work either. They're still going to think you have some sort of hidden motive and they'll STILL perceive you as an enemy.

Again, you are being unintentionally ironic. You are predicting what people will be (if and when you change your own way of being), in a way that dooms them in your thinking. You are generating a space of no freedom, for them and for yourself.

And even if you are predicting correctly, my favorite self-help motto applies here: So what? You are not going to change who they are, but if you are being free, accepting, and positive, you are being that for yourself and for the world, regardless of the actions of others.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Angela

So what?

So what indeed!

If you stop paying attention to these 'doomed' people, they will fade from your life entirely.

Btw. that includes tuning out Oprah, Dr. Phil and the likes... they all attract Sally Sob Stories like dung attracts flies.

[The Cloud]

The only people that can find answers are those that have questions. I used to be one of those hopeless, unthinking souls. When people started talking about philosophy or purpose, I just zonked out because I didn't want to think about it. Then I realized that the way I was thinking, or unthinking, was causing me to be miserable, and set out to discover a new way that made sense. Only then did I find ways to end my misery, answers to the questions that I dared to ask. I know people that are like I was; accepting without questioning, going down a path without asking where it's going or why there are so many obstacles in their way.

The only thing that you can do for these people is to lead by example. As Ghandi once said, you must be the change you wish to see in the world. You can't change them directly, but you can show them a better way and hope that they see how mean and unhappy their lives are. The added benefit of this is that even if they don't see a better way in you, you still get to live a better way.

[Brutha]

The interesting thing is that people do change beliefs from time to time. Sometimes factors comes together and someone has a flash of intuition.

[Fullcrum]

It's funny, these "doomed people" tend to act differently around me.

They attempt to portray themselves as not doomed. It all depends on the energy and the vibe you carry, which stems from your thoughts and then from your awareness. I intentionally carry a very positive and upbeat vibe. These "closed minded doomed" people actually try to show that they are not such when around me. This just goes to show that you attract what you are.

Jim is right. This aspect of them will fade from your life when you stop "resisting" them and really just let them be. Often it is your powerful example that will spill them out of their self-made walls. When you "try" to change them through thought or something, it usually won't work with these people. Allow them to be.

[Trezker]

Talking to people does not help. But actions are very contagious. Monkey see, monkey do. If all you do is talk, all they do is talk back.

If you wanna talk, talk about what you do and not about what others should do.

[mncz]

Originally Posted by Angela

Again, you are being unintentionally ironic. You are predicting what people will be (if and when you change your own way of being), in a way that dooms them in your thinking. You are generating a space of no freedom, for them and for yourself.

And even if you are predicting correctly, my favorite self-help motto applies here: So what? You are not going to change who they are, but if you are being free, accepting, and positive, you are being that for yourself and for the world, regardless of the actions of others.

From my experience, when I was loving, caring, positive and happy around such a person (the traits 3nigma put down quite precisely match my ex), it did not help. Precisely as 3nigma said, it was perceived as a) fake (it truly was not) b) behaviour with a hidden and very evil agenda c) childish and stupid, since "world cannot be handled with just a happy smile".

Best you can do (still, still learning this the hard way) is to keep being positive and loving. You cannot change others, but you can still choose for yourself. Eventually the "doomed people" will fade away from your life, and trust me, it is for the better. Whatever you do, never allow them to bring you down the emotional ladder and feed off your wibes (some of them do that).

And nop, you cannot help them. They are learning THEIR life lessons where they are, you cannot accelerate or significantly ease the process, since some lessons are intended to be hard and should stay that way. I have a strong wish to "save people" and to "help the helpless". Wrong. Wrong! People can beautifully save themselves. If they are stuck in a deep dark hole, it is for a reason, one you cannot figure out and set straight, since they are living their lifes, their karma, their scenarios, consequences of their choices and beliefs. Don't mess with that, since whatever you do with the intention to "help" will only make things worse.

Of course, if a person specifically ASKS for help, it is entirely different matter. Share your view, give advice. But under no circumstances try to lift their lives for them. Waste of time and effort.

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

I feel some people are just doomed...

Is there anything you can do to help these poor souls? I want to, but at the same time when I try to they just revert to their OS software "Defensive Ego!"

My wife was fond of saying, "until the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of changing, people won't change."

Wise words that I try to keep in mind, although I have known people so deeply in love with their illusions and attachments that they will endure virtually infinite amounts of pain rather than even consider change.

That is their choice, too, although we must take care to avoid arrogance about it. Too many want to paint such people with a flip, broad brush stroke -- it's all their fault somehow. Not a good or loving attitude to take, even to the extent that it's true. Mercy is a virtue that's too often overlooked on the one hand, or on the other hand, taken to the point of being an enabler.

In addition, I've known people who life hands a stick with such a short end that I don't see how they are ever going to make progress. People with severe mental, emotional, and physical handicaps, for instance, sometimes become a Helen Keller, but usually, they live what appears to be a hopelessly, irredeemably miserable existence. Sometimes the gods seem to grant them a kind of zen-like serenity and a happy spirit, but now always.

I don't pretend to understand it, but neither can I turn my back on them with some new-age pablum about how they create their own reality so it's all their fault somehow.

The world isn't a fair place. S__t happens. I'm not god and it's not my job to bear it all on my shoulders. But ... it's fundamentally wrong and it bothers me deeply.

What we're really discussing here is what CS Lewis wrote about in The Problem of Pain. Human suffering is difficult to reconcile with either human hopes, dreams and aspirations, or with a loving, benevolent God. Smarter people than me have struggled with the question for eons. Semi-satisfying rationalizations exist, but I haven't personally encountered a philosophy of human suffering that I'm prepared to embrace wholeheartedly.

For now, I have to apply my general-purpose mantra, "it is what it is" and focus on what is on my own plate. I help those in need when I feel I can make a difference without being an enabler.

--Bob