Is there such a thing as "being the victim"?

[Rockchick26]

I am reading this book called Mindful Loving,its basically about how to heal yourself and realize YOU are creating your own problems with relationships,and not blaming it on the other person. Is anyone familiar with this book? So basically,according to this,you can either keep playing the victim or you can change the situation by realizing you're creating this. Thats where i get confused. I am in a situation right now,well,i guess i have been for years,with my dad...and this book is not helping,NOTHING seems to help. But now i'm wondering how it can be true that i'm bringing this on myself? My dad is very verbally abusive and negative,and he is this way with everyone,his girlfriend,my mom (they divorced,she left him cuz of how he is),he's like this with my brother,and people at work (we work at the same place). How can i be creating this,when he's like this with everyone? I TRULY feel (and no i dont think this is my ego talking) that we are all victims,its obviously not MY fault if he's like this with other people too. So according to this book,i cant fix this situation. I'll give a few examples. I can have a great mindset and be in a good mood when i go visit him,and i'll tell myself this is going to go well. I think positive thoughts,and look forward to a good time. Then,out of nowhere,he gets on my case for throwing the pickle and tomato off my burger. What the hell?! How could i have brought that on myself? He said "Why didnt you ask anyone if they wanted them? Of course you never think about anyone else ever". (??? ugh!) Another example...i dont even remember now what we were arguing about but he was telling me the "right" way to do something,about MY life (i'm 35 years old by the way!) and it was something that i do all the time and it works just fine,and as usual he was trying to tell me to do it his way. Then he turned to his girlfriend and said "This is why me and my kids aren't close!" Because we are adults and dont live our lives the way he thinks we should,thats why we're not close? We seem just fine until he gets mad about something stupid that isnt to his liking. I just dont get it. I dont get how any of this could be a result of me creating the situation. I've never raised my voice to him or talked back or done anything wrong,i'm a GREAT kid (my mom has no problems with me or my brother) yet according to my dad we cant do anything right. For his birthday we asked him what he wanted to do,where he wanted to eat. He said lets get pizza,so we got pizza. Then after it was over,he went off on us about how his brothers kids do this stuff for their dad,and these other people's kids do this,well,why not say that in the first place!? We asked him what he wanted to do! We are NEVER right no matter what! How can i live my own life the way i want without getting this abuse? If i am making myself be the victim how can he be this way with everyone else too? And how can i fix it? And dont say therapy,cuz he already did that for years and it made him worse.

[Angela]

How are you bringing this on yourself? You're 35 and you work in the same place as this man who has abused you all your life, you visit him and go for burgers, you take him out for his birthday. That's how.

How can you live your own life, free of his abuse? You stop doing those things. That's how.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

How can i be creating this,when he's like this with everyone? I TRULY feel (and no i dont think this is my ego talking) that we are all victims,its obviously not MY fault if he's like this with other people too. So according to this book,i cant fix this situation.

The book is right. There are no victims.
You create all your experiences, either consciously or unconsciously.
The outside world is a mirror of yourself.
What you see out there is denied inside.

Your father is reflecting back to you the part of you that is very critical of yourself. You may not even be aware of the self-criticism in your thoughts.
Are you wrong a lot? (throwing the pickle and tomato off the burger is probably wrong)

Is it a problem? No. Receive that you're playing with being wrong. "Oh, look, my dad is criticizing me again, there must be something in this moment I need to pay attention to about myself. I guess I'm choosing to make myself wrong right now and I'm not aware of it."

And then feel what's going on inside you emotionally. See what you find.
---
If I've totally lost you let me know and I can try to go at it a different way.

[robertanthony]

A bully will find a victim and make them believe that everything is their fault. It's a way of addicating personal responsibility for mistakes and feelings of inadequacy and failure. The paradox here is that it's your dad who should be reading the book as you sound absolutely fine.

[smartile]

Hi Rockchick26,

You seem pretty heated over this. It sounds like your reacting to your dad's behavior.

The word RE-ACTION is taking action that is repeated from your past. You're RE in ACTING your behavior from your past. Every time you're with your dad you're RE ACTING the past. When you start being present and stop reacting, you will be able to make a new choice and behave differently. Make a new choice to be loving with your dad - NOT ONLY before you see him but make a choice to be loving during every moment that you are with him.

Make a new choice, change the way you're being and behaving and you'll influence your dad.

Stephen Martile — Personal Development Made Simple

[mncz]

I have actually locked out my mother from my life for about a year because of a quite similar problem. I know it is passive aggression and does not essentially solve anything. But it worked for me! I got away from a very depressing influence (you cant do anything right! you are not what I expected you to be at all!), I cured my mild depression that had lasted for a decade and got to be generally a better and happier person!
And then one day I called her and asked how she was and we went to have dinner and miraculously it worked out fine and has been ever since.

What I want to say is - perhaps you need to step away from the problem to solve it either by changing yourself or at least your perception about it.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Angela

How are you bringing this on yourself? You're 35 and you work in the same place as this man who has abused you all your life, you visit him and go for burgers, you take him out for his birthday. That's how.

How can you live your own life, free of his abuse? You stop doing those things. That's how.

So basically youre saying to cut him out of my life? That doesnt seem like the right answer because then he'll only be more upset,how am i fixing things by running away from him?

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by smartile

Hi Rockchick26,

You seem pretty heated over this. It sounds like your reacting to your dad's behavior. Make a new choice to be loving with your dad - NOT ONLY before you see him but make a choice to be loving during every moment that you are with him.

Make a new choice, change the way you're being and behaving and you'll influence your dad.

But to me,i already dont react to it. Thats why i pretty much explode when i'm talking to people about it,BECAUSE i dont react to him. Whenever he makes his comments i either am too shocked to think of something to say or i just keep doing whatever i was doing like it never happened because i know by reacting i will only make him more mad. This feels one of those situations to me where i'm damned if i do,damned if i don't.

[mncz]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

So basically youre saying to cut him out of my life? That doesnt seem like the right answer because then he'll only be more upset,how am i fixing things by running away from him?

At first, he will be. But eventually it will get him thinking.

You are fixing them by giving yourself time away from his constant judgement to figure out the way you would like your relationship with him to be, to heal your emotional wounds, especially your frustration towards your dad about him treating you unfairly (which he is!), and to grow as a person and to put this relationship and its troubles in a different perspective.

If you manage to do that then one day you will be able to have a good relationship with him. Arguing to no end or giving in to whatever the other party demands, or ignoring the problem altogether is not a solution either.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

So basically youre saying to cut him out of my life? That doesnt seem like the right answer because then he'll only be more upset,how am i fixing things by running away from him?

Was it SonoranBob the other day who said something like, "why should they change what they're doing, since they've found someone like you who has such low standards that they're willing to accept such terrible behavior?" (he said it much better.)

What I mean is: in this case, you have been condoning your dad's abuse by making yourself present to it again and again. Have you ever said something along the lines of, "Look, Dad, I'm not willing to subject myself to your constant criticism, yelling, complaining, fault-finding; I'm committed to living a life I'm in love with and that junk has no part of living a life I love. You're free to keep criticising, yelling, complaining, and finding fault with me, but I won't be around to hear it if you do. So: make your choice, Dad -- do you want to keep a loving daughter, or do you want to keep your junk? I'm happy either way -- it's up to you."

Being a victim means allowing another person to dump his junk all over you and making it your own. You're allowed to say No, Thanks! if you want to life a life you're in love with. That's not running away at all! And it's not cutting him off, either. It's making a stand for how you want to life your life, regardless of the actions of others.

It's up to you, Rockchick! You get to choose.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

But to me,i already dont react to it. Thats why i pretty much explode when i'm talking to people about it,BECAUSE i dont react to him. Whenever he makes his comments i either am too shocked to think of something to say or i just keep doing whatever i was doing like it never happened because i know by reacting i will only make him more mad. This feels one of those situations to me where i'm damned if i do,damned if i don't.

Oops, that's you, making his junk your own. Rather than responding to him directly because it would cost you too much, you end up BEING HIM all over other people. You're reacting alright; it's just a delayed reaction. Then the people who you explode around have to deal with it; it's a domino effect until someone stands up and says, No, Thanks.

You don't want to do that, do you? Don't you want to be powerful and loving and self-expressed with everyone in your life?

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by mncz

I have actually locked out my mother from my life for about a year because of a quite similar problem. I know it is passive aggression and does not essentially solve anything. But it worked for me! I got away from a very depressing influence (you cant do anything right! you are not what I expected you to be at all!), I cured my mild depression that had lasted for a decade and got to be generally a better and happier person!
And then one day I called her and asked how she was and we went to have dinner and miraculously it worked out fine and has been ever since.

What I want to say is - perhaps you need to step away from the problem to solve it either by changing yourself or at least your perception about it.

I'm glad this worked for you! I personally dont think it would work with him because my mom divorced him,and my brother avoids him for weeks a at time,and my dad's girlfriend has quit talking to him before for a few months,and what my dad does to these situations is blames the other person. "your mother wasnt happy until she took me for everything i had!" "your brother never answers his phone when i call! He doesnt give a **** about anyone but himself" "(his girlfriend) isn't talking to me,she's crazy anyway" This is how he reacts when people step away from him,he gets worse. Because the problem is within himself.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

This is how he reacts when people step away from him,he gets worse.

How is this a problem for you, if you're not there to experience it?

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Dharma

The book is right. There are no victims.
You create all your experiences, either consciously or unconsciously.
The outside world is a mirror of yourself.
What you see out there is denied inside.

Your father is reflecting back to you the part of you that is very critical of yourself. You may not even be aware of the self-criticism in your thoughts.
Are you wrong a lot? (throwing the pickle and tomato off the burger is probably wrong)

Is it a problem? No. Receive that you're playing with being wrong. "Oh, look, my dad is criticizing me again, there must be something in this moment I need to pay attention to about myself. I guess I'm choosing to make myself wrong right now and I'm not aware of it."

Well if i thought critically of myself,why would it only be my dad that mirrors it back to me? Nobody else is critical of me at all. And when these moments happen,i KNOW i wasnt thinking critically,because these things come out of the blue! Like the burger thing. I ALWAYS throw off the pickle and tomato,its like second nature to me. The last thing on my mind was that somebody would get mad about it. And one time when he yelled at me,all i did was shut off the microwave before the timer stopped. I do that ALL the time,i've never even HEARD of anyone thinking that was "wrong",so,these things cant be coming from me.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Angela

Was it SonoranBob the other day who said something like, "why should they change what they're doing, since they've found someone like you who has such low standards that they're willing to accept such terrible behavior?" (he said it much better.)

What I mean is: in this case, you have been condoning your dad's abuse by making yourself present to it again and again. Have you ever said something along the lines of, "Look, Dad, I'm not willing to subject myself to your constant criticism, yelling, complaining, fault-finding; I'm committed to living a life I'm in love with and that junk has no part of living a life I love. You're free to keep criticising, yelling, complaining, and finding fault with me, but I won't be around to hear it if you do. So: make your choice, Dad -- do you want to keep a loving daughter, or do you want to keep your junk? I'm happy either way -- it's up to you."

Being a victim means allowing another person to dump his junk all over you and making it your own. You're allowed to say No, Thanks! if you want to life a life you're in love with. That's not running away at all! And it's not cutting him off, either. It's making a stand for how you want to life your life, regardless of the actions of others.

It's up to you, Rockchick! You get to choose.

Well,i kinda feel like i already do that because i kinda shut it out and ignore it and keep on doing whatever i was doing. I certainly dont change how i live or act just because it upsets him. I kinda feel like i should treat him like a crying baby,the more you pay attention to their crying,the more they will continue to do it cuz they know it gets your attention. So thats why i ignore his negative remarks because he'll know he's getting a rise out of me which is what he wants,attention.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Angela

Oops, that's you, making his junk your own. Rather than responding to him directly because it would cost you too much, you end up BEING HIM all over other people. You're reacting alright; it's just a delayed reaction. Then the people who you explode around have to deal with it; it's a domino effect until someone stands up and says, No, Thanks.

You don't want to do that, do you? Don't you want to be powerful and loving and self-expressed with everyone in your life?

Well,nobody has ever told me to shut up when im complaining about my dad LOL They completely understand because he does it to them too,so its kinda like we all form our own support group for it LOL And with my friends who dont know him,i usually just say oh i had a bad day with my dad and we talk about it for a few minutes then the subject is over. I'm actually a really positive person,maybe i came off on here as being a mirror image of him,but i just posted this after i got back from his house so i was more upset than usual.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Angela

How is this a problem for you, if you're not there to experience it?

But i am there to experience it when other people do this to him. At any given time,somebody is pissing him off,so he's always got someone to complain about.

[Angela]

So what do you think about the idea of letting him know his behavior doesn't work for you?

I didn't mean to say you totally become your dad, by the way; just that his negative emotions enter you and run you, like when you were fresh from that encounter that upset you. It's like an alien that he implants in you, and it takes almost superhuman effort to resist allowing the alien to be implanted when you spend a lot of time with an alien-breeder.

You're a strong person and I'm confident you'll stand up for your own good feelings.

[munish]

Loyalty is a worthy value, but what does it mean to be loyal to one’s family?
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ship-problems/