What is a girl to do?

[confirmed6475]

I'm new to this site and hoping that I'll be able to get good insight from everyone's opinion on my dilema.

I've been dating this guy for a little over a year and 1/2. We've had great times together and also have had a few break ups. In the last three months our relationship got serious enough to talk about moving in together. We even went looking for a house to buy. I was in heaven but still keeping my feet on the ground since I have kids and want to make sure I'm making the right decision for them and myself.

We had a disagreement over the weekend and we're having a hard time coming to a compromise. So I think we both felt that we came to the middle and agreed to disagree. I thought everything was fine and the next day things would be better. They were but still a little akward. I called that afternoon and basically he said he needed a 'break'.

This has happened before and I just didn't want to be in limbo so after getting over being upset I told him that we were either in this together and communicate or it should be over. His answer "I guess it's over". When I asked him what his reasons were he said: "You stay upset too long and you have reservations about moving in together so apparently I can't do the job and this is not what I signed up for!" As I mentioned previously I was being skeptical in our conversations of moving in because I didn't want to make a mistake. His interpretation...I'm being negative. The thing about me being upset for too long is because we never had a chance to sit down and talk it through.

So, needless to say we're 'broken up' and I'm in a quandry about whether I should apologize and keep the peace or wait to see what he does. One thing I should point out is that he has a lot of pride and I've been the one that has always gotten us back together! He later admits he appreciates my strength in swallowing my pride and asks for forgiveness on not doing it first.

I'm on the fence because we have had a good relationship and I love him but at this point I don't want to chase something that won't be worth my time.

Help?

[Angela]

Well, you've cemented your pattern here alright! Conflict - he withdraws - you pursue - he acquiesces till the next conflict (and you never get the loving, long-term mutually beneficial relationship communication that you desire, because when you ask for it, he withdraws, etc.)

So, how many more times are you going to keep doing that? How long are you going to pursue a LLTMBR with a man who is unavailable for one?

It's up to you -- sounds like he'll just keep playing as long as you do.

(edit: by the way, are you 33 and he's 44? )

[uberinquisitive]

Wow Angela...that's eye-opening! You just explained, so clearly, why relationships seem to "never change." Patterns are developed...roles are ingrained...and it's very difficult to break out of them.

What would a present-minded, self-aware woman do? Should she just accept that the break-up? What if she wanted to go back into the relationship?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

What would a present-minded, self-aware woman do? Should she just accept that the break-up? What if she wanted to go back into the relationship?

Well, if she wants to go back into the relationship, all she has to do is play her part in the pattern -- pursue him.

But I get the feeling she wants to interrupt this pattern, and generate a new relationship that works better in creating a life she loves. Sorry to talk about you in the third person, Confirming!

Fortunately, there is an infinite variety of ways to interrupt the pattern. My favorite way is to boldly acknowledge it. "Look, Gregorio, a LLTMBR for me means a commitment by both parties to great, growth-oriented, loving communication, and that includes sharing our concerns and looking for a solution we can both be satisfied with. It looks to me like you feel that kind of communication is too much work -- not what you signed on for. Am I understanding you correctly? If that's the case, you are absolutely right -- let's say goodbye now, with lots of love, so that we are free to find partners who are a better match for our values. Mwah! -- oh, what's that you say? I'm NOT understanding you correctly? Please, Gregorio, straighten me out on how you feel. I am committed to hearing what you have to say, so that you are satisfied that I've heard it the way you want it to be heard." (then listen really generously, and hear what Gregorio has to say, the way he wants you to hear it.)

Or if you can't be bothered with all that, just start dating some new hot men! That will certainly interrupt the pattern.

[confirmed6475]

Thanks Angela for your insight. I'm afraid to admit that I too have had that thought many of times. However, the reason I keep falling into it is because I do care for him and when we are together he is a loving kind man. He just doesn't take risks even though he knows that I'm forgiving and want him back. But as you said it has become a game.

I've been reading some other advice and the common advice seems to be to 'leave him alone'. Men need time to think and if they can sort things through and make the first move that seems to be the only way for a long lasting reunion.

Say I do painfully let him go and down the road he contacts me. Do I play hard to get or could that prove to him that he should have never stuck his neck out? Why is this game of love so pretentious? Why the cat and mouse game? Is this the only way humans know how to interact?

[Angela]

Who said anything about pretending? Not me; I'm all for bold acknowledgement, as I said. I'm not talking about playing hard to get; I'm talking about breaking out of your pattern -- your habitual way of being. You've been pretending for a year and a half, probably long before that. You are teaching your kids that romantic love is all about pretense and trauma (breaking up a few times in a year and a half? eesh.) My suggestion to you is to STOP pretending, to be authentic and straight.

With YOURSELF.

[confirmed6475]

Ok. Your thoughts are like water to a very thirsty person. A person (me) that has not been able to know what to do under theses circumstances. I understand what your saying about being honest with myself and breaking out of this weak pattern that I have developed. Trust me, "it ain't working for me!" What's critical is what specifically should be my 'new' pattern along with trying to salvage this relationship. I'm all for changing this pattern and if he can't accept it then it's clear there is no rescuing this love. It will be clear to me that he's not willing to work jointly on this relationship.

Any detailed suggestions as to what to do from this point forward? I'm going to keep busy but what to do when (and if) he should call in the future?

I think the reason hang on to some loves is because in times of turmoil they can only think of the good times and try to ignore the bad. I think there is some value to the good times and if the good outweighs the bad, why not give it another chance? I strongly belive that people can change themselves if the desire is there. If you truly love someone you will bend and stretch but not necessarily change. As the saying goes 'you can't change others but you can change yourself'

I look forward to your wisdome on this matter!

[JSB]

From your post, it sounds to me that you're both making a lot of assumptions.

You do or say something, he does or says something, and you each interpret the other pesons actions and words with the inherent assumption that you understand the meaning behind those actions and words.

We each live in a different internal world, and two people can have radically different reasons for saying or doing the exact same things, and radically different interpretations about the significance of words or actions.

If you want to work on this relationship, set aside some time and have a conversation with him. Ask him what he means, what he wants, how he feels, how he interprets your behavior, and really listen to him, rather than trying to convince him of anything or get your own point across. Make sure he does the same for you.

Once you both have a better idea of what is going on, then you can make an informed decision about what you want to do.

[Fullcrum]

I agree with Angela - seems like an issue of bad habits, bad assumptions, bad programming, bad roles you've put each other into. At least "bad" in relation to what we want!

For me at least, when I want to break a habit I'll still my mind and become very present and do stuff to feel really good in my body. Once that's extablished I might ask myself "Why do I do this? What do I really want? etc."

If you want to find out what a present and aware woman would do when living in the present instead of in her habits, beliefs, and mind material - become present and aware and see what happens.

The answer might come to you when you are present - still your mind! And have fun with it.

[sheffy4]

Hey Confirmed,
I'm in counseling right now, and many of my issues are triggered by the relationship I'm in. My counselor recently told me not to separate the good times from the bad times. Its still one relationship. Not the "good relationship" and the "bad relationship."
She compared it to a clean room in the house. You could walk into the nice, gleaming room and think, "This is really nice," but then, what about that huge pile of dirty sneakers in the closet? Does it bother you to think of that dirty closet? It's ok to have a few dirty sneakers, but if you open the closet, and the sneakers pour out, how much of the room do the sneakers fill up? Just a little corner... more than half... or maybe almost the whole room?
Just something to think about.

[confirmed6475]

I so appreciate everyone's input.

The update on my situation is I'm sitting waiting for him to come over to return some of my things and vis versa. This was his doing. I'm heart broken however, trying to keep my cool. The last guy wants to see is a crying, needy, woman!

At this point I'm realizing that it's up to him if he wants to participate in this relationship and if the answer is no I just have to accept it. That's a bit hard since it was so abrupt. The kicker of all this is that we've had many, many discussion on this matter and how we would handle it. He took the short cut and wants to end it. Could he have someone else? I really can't think of those things or I will go nuts.

I'm concentrating on me and if he makes an effort I will meet him in the middle.

Do I look like a dog chasing it's tail? Trying to keep the emotions out of this as hard as that may be.

We'll see what time brings....any other bright, positive thoughts for me to make it through this difficult transition?

Thanks guys, you've been very supportive.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Hey, confirmed. I feel your pain. Really, I know how it is. You may see what he's doing as the easy way out, but he may be doing the very hard thing of what is best for both of you in the long run. I know how those thoughts about what ifs and other women come in to mess with you, but none of that is relavent. The fact is he isn't available for the relationship you want right now (from what you've said). It's hard to let go, but I would encourage you to work that angle. I am having to do the same, so I know how tough it is. I'm with you.

I can recommend a couple of books that are really helpful to me:

"Loving What Is" and "I Need Your Love" by Byron Katie
"Comfortable With Uncertainty" and "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron

They've helped me a lot. If you can't get hold of any of those right away, try Katie's website and do The Work there.

The Work of Byron Katie

[mncz]

Originally Posted by Angela

Well, if she wants to go back into the relationship, all she has to do is play her part in the pattern -- pursue him.

But I get the feeling she wants to interrupt this pattern, and generate a new relationship that works better in creating a life she loves. Sorry to talk about you in the third person, Confirming!

Fortunately, there is an infinite variety of ways to interrupt the pattern. My favorite way is to boldly acknowledge it. "Look, Gregorio, a LLTMBR for me means a commitment by both parties to great, growth-oriented, loving communication, and that includes sharing our concerns and looking for a solution we can both be satisfied with. It looks to me like you feel that kind of communication is too much work -- not what you signed on for. Am I understanding you correctly? If that's the case, you are absolutely right -- let's say goodbye now, with lots of love, so that we are free to find partners who are a better match for our values. Mwah! -- oh, what's that you say? I'm NOT understanding you correctly? Please, Gregorio, straighten me out on how you feel. I am committed to hearing what you have to say, so that you are satisfied that I've heard it the way you want it to be heard." (then listen really generously, and hear what Gregorio has to say, the way he wants you to hear it.)

Or if you can't be bothered with all that, just start dating some new hot men! That will certainly interrupt the pattern.

Angela says it absolutely right. I did leave the person I was with when I saw that the pattern of our relationship (1 year) was not the one I needed and although I have had my fair share of moments of weakness, I have never doubted that I did the right thing ... for both of us. Do NOT fool yourself into thinking that you can care for him enough and he will change what he is doing. Behavioral patterns, once settled, are surprisingly persistent. Just break out of it and once the mourning time is over, you will find yourself as a better, stronger person and, most importantly, as one who knows what she needs from relationship! And then you become a vibrational match for it and can actually attract what you need How great is that?

PS LLTMBR - cool abbreviation, since that IS hard to type out

[confirmed6475]

thanks mncz for your thoughts.

Want to play the devil's advocate here.....I've been telling everyone my side of the story and everyone is kindly rooting for me and telling me to just move on, the guy is not worth it.

Food for thought.....what's his side of the story? Doesn't it take two to tango? Aren't there two sides to a story?

Don't worry I haven't done anything stupid in trying to rekindle the relationship but I'm really hurting here and what is most likely is I'm reviewing my behavior in the situation and also what had just recently happened before the break up. Everything was fine! Trust me we had communicated very well about what we wanted coming from a divorced background.

I'm just in a quandry on how he can do a 180, trash all the good times, the plans and then say "it's for the best, you and I will never change, etc"?

I'm trying to stay busy but these nagging thoughts just aren't sitting well.

Would love to have a male's perspective because right now I only see it from a female's and you know that's dramatically different!

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by confirmed6475

I'm just in a quandry on how he can do a 180, trash all the good times, the plans and then say "it's for the best, you and I will never change, etc"?

To me that just says he's not fully committed to the relationship. He uses the break-ups as a pressure release valve. When the tension grows to high, he says: bye!

Bleh.

Not my type, definitely! Not even if he, were a woman.

Would love to have a male's perspective because right now I only see it from a female's and you know that's dramatically different!

It's not, actually. Everybody just likes to say it is. In the end, us men and women are more alike then we let on.

[confirmed6475]

JimOfferman --- you have shed light on that nagging feeling and I truly appreciate your perspective.

On that note you say "not your type" (even if he were a woman) but don't we all react in different ways. I understand what you're saying and that's how he deals with the pressure.

However, because this has happened before and when we have a heart to heart he reveals to me that even though he wanted to fix things he just didn't know how.

Should I dispose of him because he doesn't have the tools to deal under personal pressures or hang in there with him and be understanding? Once he doesn't feel the pressure the guy is unbelievably committed.

How do you get balance here?

[JimOfferman]

Yes, we all react in our own unique ways... although I do believe that anyone who desires a stable relationship would prefer not to have a partner who 'avoids' his problems in such a way.

Should I dispose of him because he doesn't have the tools to deal under personal pressures or hang in there with him and be understanding? Once he doesn't feel the pressure the guy is unbelievably committed.

Being committed means staying even when the going gets tough, so you really cannot measure commitment when there isn't any pressure.

It's like claiming you're an outdoor survivalist when the sun is shining and the sky is blue... and then running inside at the first sign of rain.

How do you get balance here?

There is no balance to strike here. Either you're committed to a relationship or you are not. If you are a serial break-upper than you were not committed to any of those relationships.

As the break-uppee, you have to ask yourself: what do you value more? Your self-worth or another round on the break-up-express?

[confirmed6475]

your words are making the picture clearer and clearer.

Most likely because I have known this all along but just choosing to ignore it.

This process of acceptance is like going to the gym. The more perspective I gain the stronger my will to release him comes.

I suppose I was just trying to be hopeful (don't get upset Angela =-) and really it's a waste of time.

Romance sucks! Sorry guys but having to weed through people and invest your heart sure is painstaking especially when you do think you've found the right guy.....

[Angela]

Originally Posted by confirmed6475

I suppose I was just trying to be hopeful (don't get upset Angela =-) and really it's a waste of time....

Funny! You're right, I do think hope is overrated.