Help - My recent ex with low self esteem

[graham6662]

HI,

I had been dating this girl for 11 months who had a low self esteem problem. When she was well things were brilliant but most of the times things were hell. She was constantly trying to sabotage the relationship and it caused me a lot of stress. She made me aware of the problem and said she could not have a relationship with me or any man unless she saw a therapist. In fact she was previously resigned to never having a relationship with a man again. She told me that her father died when she was young and she was physically, sexually and mentally abused by a former partner who stalked her and made her life hell. She also said that she destroys things, people and relationships which still confuses me.

I found her a local therapist but she claims she only went a couple of times and gave up. I got her a self help book but she procrastinated with it and gave up eventually claiming I was using it against her. I gave her a lot of love and patience and supported her and gave her lots of compliments which she seemed to ignore. All throught our relationship she had huge problems trusting me and believing what I told her. We loved each other immensely but this never solved our problems. In fact it made them worse because whenever I tried to leave her she would not let me go.

Nearly all the time she was verbally and emotionally abusive towards me and used to yell at me in a vile and worrying tone. She said she was fraught when she did this and most of the time it seemed to be caused by cognitive distortions like mind reading and black and white thinking. She seemed angry a lot of the time (fraught leads to anger) and she claimed it was all my fault and that I had anger management and low esteem issues. I was accused of all sorts of vile things which used to upset me like cheating on her. We ended up with this cycle where we were both fraught, her more angry than me.

It all ended very bad and I believe this might have made her esteem problems even worse. We both used to drink quite a lot at the weekends in the evening which didnt help much. She used to drink more than me and would make me drink more than I wanted. She was often drunk though her problems were no worse sober or drunk. We had a lot to drink and had a bad row New Years eve after accusing me of messing with her watch and not believing that I didnt do it saying 'he (the abusive ex) used to mess with my watch to mess my head up'. I got her to pack her bags and threw her out. I am ashamed of this as i've never been forceful or aggressive towards a woman before.

She is now scared of me and will never trust me again. We parted New Years day and have not spoken or texted each other for 3 weeks. She claims to have reported me to the Police and if I contact her she will press charges. She did text and phone me a few days later but I did not reply.

I'm slowly getting over it, my esteem is intact and i've spent weeks researching low esteem, anger management, codependency but there is not much information on how partners of low esteem sufferers are affected, how they are supposed to cope during a relationship and post breakup of relationship. I realise that her anger and the way she treated me eventually made me angry and that's why I chucked her out. I'm not proud of it and have addressed the problem for myself. I am calmer and far less fraught. I am not usually an angry man but the frustrations I had to live with tipped me over the edge.

I've taken friends advice to let it drop and walk away. Its very hard but I think its the only thing I can do. I realize I was scared of her for most of the relationship, walking on eggshells trying not to set her off. I think now that she was controlling me, I had to phone her every day while I was working away and had to be there for her all the time. Her disbelieving and not trusting me was also a way of controlling me as I had to always justify myself, I often felt like I was on the ropes in the corner trying to defend an attack.

She seemed to like all the things I did but I would never dare disagree with her or try to discuss a new subject that would test her self esteem. I'm beginning to realize that she had anger issues from low esteem and that I struggled to support her. I feel that I was emotionally abused by her and i'm not sure if I should start some contact with her as I feel there are things unsaid that she might benefit from. I expect she's developed some cognitive distortions telling her I was a monster not to be trusted. This is a shame because we shared so much love. There again it might be better to let it lie. There is a lot I have not said but this is the nuts and bolts of it all.

Any help appreciated as i'm still in love with her and at my wits end though i'm getting stronger every day and meeting new people. I take sleeping tables at night as I cant sleep and I dont drink at all any more. I mention the alcohol, I don't honestly believe it was the cause of our problems, I believe though if I didn't drink it would have been one more thing in my favour that could have made it easier for me to help her.

I feel isolated but I have strong will and aim to take my mind off this by helping others. I have friends at home with problems, I can't really discuss these issues with them as they have never been through anything like this. I'm 44 she's 37.

Please help.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by graham6662

I realise that her anger and the way she treated me eventually made me angry...

You sure about that? You don't think maybe you are angry because she isn't the person you want her to be, and things didn't go the way you want them to go?

When someone tells you that she destroys things, people and relationships, you can believe her -- she's telling you the truth. Why were you unwilling to accept that? Why would you think you would be the exception?

It sounds like she pretty much told you upfront that she wasn't available for a relationship, in many ways including straight out. And you insisted on being in a relationship with her despite all that. Why? Did you think you could fix her? If you succeeded or failed, would that mean something about you?

[graham6662]

Hi Angela,

Thanks for your help. I need to clarify some things for you;

We spent 11 months in a relationship we BOTH wanted. No abiguity there. We were both comitted to the relationship. I have no doubts its what we BOTH wanted. She had insecurity issues (low SE) which she admited to from the start. I found her councilling but unfortunately she did not persist with it.
Maybe in hindsight we should not have had the relationship but I did not insist that we had a relationship. I truly believed and waned to help her resolve her problems which is why I bought her the cognitive self help book.
I wanted to be the one to help her change her life. It was important to me. I wanted it to work. She thought a lot of the book but realized she would have to come to terms with a lot from her past abusive relationship. Bottom line is she couldnt do that. I hope that hepls a bit.

Thank you.

[Angela]

Graham, I forgot to tell you "Welcome" in my post -- I'm sorry that I didn't say that! I hope you have a great time here.

I totally get that you and this woman were in a mutual, consentual relationship. And: she told you that she destroys things, people, and relationships. Regardless of her choices and efforts regarding your relationship, you were free in the face of that declaration to pursue something with her or not. It sounds to me (please forgive my presumption, and correct me if I'm on the wrong track) like you heard her say that she is destructive, and you knew from the very start that she had low self-esteem, you knew that she was abusive, and you wanted to help her change, inside of a relationship with you. You wanted to fix her. Is that right?

[graham6662]

Hi Angela, thanks.
You are right and I wanted to help her fix herself. I should've insisted on the therapy. As for her admissions, I should've paid more notice to it. Its only on reflection that I found some old notes from the earliest of our telephone conversations that I remembered it.

[Angela]

Well, I'm not real big on *shoulds*.

You had a relationship with a fantasy woman, not a real one. You were in love with the potential girl, not the girl exactly as she is and exactly as she isn't. You were in love with someone who does not exist. She was who she was, and you wanted her to be someone else. How must that have felt to her? Can you imagine: someone tells you she's in love with you, but you must change? You must do therapy, or I will not be satisfied with you? That must have felt really horrible to her, don't you think? And when she let you down by not being who you wanted her to be, you got aggressive and mean with her and threw her out.

Wouldn't you like to be a person who accepts your partner exactly as she is and exactly who she isn't? And is fully accepted, too? Or are you willing to go into your next relationship with another fixer-upper?

It's entirely up to you.

[graham6662]

Angela,

Thank you for your patience so far. I don't know if you have experience with a severely low esteem partner, somebody who is regularly emotionally and verbally abusive towards their partner. I spent a lot of the time walking on egg shells, scared to bring up new subjects in case they upset her esteem. She had little confidence in herself and would withdraw into a passive aggressive mood. I often asked her questions to which I got no answer. She would not let me take a photo of her, she was that insecure.

She was fine some of the time and somebody completely different the rest.
I really dont see it as me trying to change her into the person I wanted her to be. It was me helping her with her problems trying to be the person she was some of the time. She wanted to be that happy, secure person all the time.
I'm going to ask you a question Angela, if your new partner said they had issues that need sorting would you stick by them, what would you do if they did not pursue the therapy they said they really needed ? Even when it looked like she was not going to do the therapy I stuck by her. I endured insults, yelling, accusations and loved her unconditionally. I really don't know of any man who would have stuck by her. My friends saw what was happening and advised me to end the relationship. My friends saw her controlling me and saw what it was doing to me. I did see her behaviour as being acceptable and the bottom line is some of the time she knew it wasn't acceptable too. That is why she wanted to change. She did not fully trust me because of her insecurites and that had a big impact on both our happiness. I would really really like to know what anyone else would have done in that situation.

I don't go into relationships trying to change my partner, I saw she had problems but she wanted me to stick by her and I wanted to also. As I said before, she said she needed therapy and insisted on it. I found her a therapist but she did not progress with it. I dont know if I should mention that she told me she tried therapy a long time before she met me. She said she did not open up to the therapist and fully trust them.

[Rose of Cairo]

Graham, to tell you the truth I think that you have low self-esteem. Which person with respect for themselves would accept to endure all that? You'll say it was out of love. Loving someone doesn't mean that you are a carpet for them to trample on. You see, in my opinion partners of low self-esteem persons are low self-esteem persons themselves. You just express it in another way than she does.

You also seem to be surrounded with negative people. The best advice I could give you is to forget about that woman for a while and just concentrate on yourself. Work on your own self-esteem. Get positive friends. Be happy.

It's a pity when someone is stuck and unhappy, and I understand that it must be terrible for you to see her so lost. Of course you would like to help her, but it's not your job. It hurts you and doesn't even help her.

As hard as it sounds, you cannot help others. They can only help themselves. And it is their decision to do so, or not. All you can do is give them the freedom to choose. By buying her books, finding a therapist for her and insisting that she goes, you're not granting her this freedom. I know you mean well, but she has to do that on her own, when she's ready to do it. Nobody can take that away from her, not even you, no matter how much you love her.

I know it sucks to let someone behind. But you have to think of yourself and choose what's best for you. It's your life after all, and your main duty is to make sure that you are happy.

Good luck on your path!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by graham6662

She was fine some of the time and somebody completely different the rest.

Implicit in that statement is your belief that when she was "somebody completely different", she wasn't fine. When you believe someone is not fine, you are believing she *should* be different -- she *should* be fine. And believing that someone should be other than what they are generates a space of no freedom for her to be exactly what she is and exactly what she isn't.

I'm going to ask you a question Angela, if your new partner said they had issues that need sorting would you stick by them, what would you do if they did not pursue the therapy they said they really needed ?

I get that you feel like you should stick by your partner, be loyal to her and do your best to help her in her aims. I acknowledge you for that; it's a really nice thing to have in a partner! And. If my new partner said he has issues that need sorting out, I would cheer him on. If he said he really needs therapy and did not pursue therapy, I would notice that he thinks he needs therapy but doesn't really need it, because he's not doing it, and that's perfect. If I notice that I believe he is wrong or stubborn or a bad partner because he says he needs therapy but doesn't pursue it, then (I hope) I would recognize that my belief has nothing to do with him -- he's fine, it's ME that is being wrong or stubborn or a bad partner. He would be doing exactly what he feels is right in his life, and I would be telling him (silently or out loud) that that's not okay with me -- that he should do what I want him to do, not what he chooses for himself! Argh. I wouldn't want a partner who did that to me.

And if I felt like my partner had issues that made him unavailable for a loving, long-term mutually beneficial relationship, and he was not interested in generating availability, then I would take 100% responsibility and let him go with love. It's not my job to force anyone to be available for a relationship with me; I want my partner to be a joyful volunteer, not a grim recruit.

Does that answer your question?

[uberinquisitive]

Graham, I have been in your shoes. I've also been the girlfriend.

Forgive yourself. For being human. For not being the perfect knight in shining armor. For being powerless to change someone you love. For making poor decisions. For tolerating bad situations. For allowing someone to affect your self-esteem. Etc.

Once you forgive yourself - you will find that your self-esteem goes back up again. You will stop being "in love" with your ex, and instead feel loving, but also compassionately detached, from her.

Once you forgive yourself - you will find that you accept yourself fully, and therefore accept others fully. In the future, instead of trying to change your gf, you will either decide to live with it, or to leave the relationship.

[jwz]

Hi Graham. I didn't see your PM until just now. Sorry.

And I didn't read your entire post, but I got the idea of it.

Yes, I've also been in that situation. I still am.
I really really miss my son, and I can't go see him without seeing my ex too.
And seeing her will encourage her to write or call every now and then.
That would evolve, we would get closer and closer until she blows up again.

It's just a matter of time before I go check on my beloved son again, thus starting the 'evil machinery'. (lol).

Assuming that your ex-gf is of bad behaviour towards you:

Graham, if you have no physical or utterly strong bonds to your ex girlfriend, I would strongly suggest that you spent some time seeing how she REALLY is not using your heart but using your EYES.

That way you will be able to find out exactly what you want and take action.

You see, no matter how much you love her, if your EYES can't stand the sight of her and you can't accept her moral / her attitude / her ways, you simply CAN'T live with her.

If you're going to see her again soon, please tell your emotions to back off ONE SINGLE DAY and see her as a person you don't feel anything for.
Just to show yourself whether you should spend more time on her or not.
That should do it.

That being said, I don't intend to speak badly of your ex, neither do I intend to make you see her as a bad person. I just want you to realize whether you can live with her or not.

I've been in your situation (still am), and I know how you must feel.
Find out what you want, go for it, and stay strong.

Best of wishes.

Jan