Relationship advice needed - difficult spouse interactions

[Statikkk]

Hi Everyone,

New poster but regular lurker here. I have been scouring this forum to find other posts that relate to my situation but thought it might be both therapeutic and helpful to ask you fine folks for your thoughts and/or advice on my situation. I apologize in advance for the long post.

I have been married to my wife for a few months, and we've known each other for about 3 years. Since we've been married, our relationship has taken a sharp turn for the worse. Before we were married [and before I even proposed 1.5 years ago] I had some concerns about our differences in personality, and all of those concerns have come to full fruition.

My wife, in my humble opinion, is a highly sensitive person. I've never met anyone anywhere close to as sensitive as her. From the beginning of our relationship, I recognized that she was highly emotional and that I needed to take care in what I say and do around her. Over time, this has become an absolute nightmare. I feel like I am constantly walking on eggshells to ensure she is doesn't get angered, upset or sad by anything I say or do. I'm a fairly simple person and rarely have any malicious thoughts or feelings towards anyone, so I find this particularly difficult to keep on top of. Since we've been married, things have gotten really bad. There have been several instances where a pretty standard conversation has ended with her screaming at me enraged, and there have even been a couple of times when she was physical [though she didn't actually inflict any pain or damage]. I find this highly disrespectful and a very bad sign of things to come.

In general, it feels like I can't have an opinion on anything if it is different than hers. If I feel very strongly and decide to debate her thoughts on something, I have to be prepared for a fight which will end in her anger and subsequent lack of communication for hours or days. It feels like our entire relationship is driven by her emotions, to the point where my own emotions are now on the backburner. It's making me feel very resentful towards her. We seem to be fine when we are doing trivial things together - watching movies, discussing very broad topics where neither person has a solid belief, or just hanging out. If we need to discuss anything serious or make any major decisions, we're totally screwed. It sucks because she has many positive traits that make her the perfect wife, but she also has a number strongly go against my own personality that I simply cannot cope with.

I've spent a lot of time trying to understand how I can best handle this, and she has even accepted that she cannot act like that. There are periods where she seems to focus strongly on not screaming or being physically violent, and things go fine for a few days, maybe a couple of weeks. It never takes long for it go revert to those tensions.

As I mentioned, the root of this seems to be her overly sensitive and emotional personality. She does not get along with my family at all - starting from just before we got married, she began taking up personal issues with my sister, then my mother, and lastly my father. My family has put in a lot of effort [again in my opinion] to make her comfortable, and even knowing her sensitivity to try and take care around her and make her happy. Regardless, she has been cold towards them and shown no interest in being part of the family. While I know I shouldn't expect a perfect relationship between them, this is difficult because it changes my own personality and approach with my family since I am so cautious and concerned about her emotions.

The icing on the cake is that one of my big flaws is I will do almost anything to avoid conflict. When I see her being rude to my family, I let it slide under the carpet to avoid a fight, which only makes things worse. The only major exception I take is when she gets physically or verbally confrontational, but even then she will apologize and smooth things over and everything, on the surface, is back to normal.

I'm concerned that if things are this bad now, what will happen when major life events occur? She has indicated that she wants to buy a house together ASAP and start a family next year, but based on the instability of our relationship I am not ready for any of that, but I'm avoiding the conflict of telling her that.

I don't know what I truly want - a course of action in making things work, which either way is an extremely uphill battle, or the courage to leave without feeling guilty.

Any thoughts, guidance or experience shared would be most welcome.

[Angela]

Hey there Statikkk. Welcome -- I'm glad you're gone from lurker to participator.

Have you seen this thread: highly defensive persons? It sounds like your wife is an HDP.

Have you shared your thoughts with her, expressed exactly like you have here -- that is, calmly and with love? Letting her know that this might cost you both your relationship? If so, is she committed to doing what needs to be done to generate a relationship that works for both of you? Then maybe you have chance. I think you would need some therapy, both marital and just by yourself (to see how you got yourself into this fix in the first place). I also highly recommend the Landmark Forum for both of you.

If, after she agrees that this behavior is wreaking havoc on your marriage, she refuses to take responsibility and take steps towards building a relationship that works, then I think you should let her go with love. Buh-bye! Life is too short to waste trying to fix the unfixable.

(p.s... can you imagine being the child of such a mother? Please consider that it's your responsibility to provide your children with a loving safe environment -- and picking a loving and safe co-parent is a huge part of that.)

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Statikkk

She has indicated that she wants to buy a house together ASAP and start a family next year, but based on the instability of our relationship I am not ready for any of that, but I'm avoiding the conflict of telling her that.

Stop avoiding conflict. That is the lesson for you here, as I see it.

I was in a relationship just like this for many years. It was really difficult. I deeply feel for you. I really, really loved my ex. I still really, really do to an large extent. But things never got better, no matter how hard or long I tried to make them Ok.

Same story as yours. My ex thought things would get better if we lived together. We actually did try it. Within a couple weeks we had a minor conflict, about laundry I think, which sparked an anxiety attack, which caused calling off work the next day, which caused more anxiety, which resulted in more call-offs at work.. ended up in my ex losing a great job. This was written off as being my fault for starting fights. No surprises there.

Blame, victimhood, neutrality, discontent, more blame, anger, defensiveness, neutrality, blame, anger, victimhood, anxiety attack, apology, blame. Round and round and round it went.

It always came down to not taking responsibility. Simply put, the only lesson I learned was to not to be around people for long who always blame others for their situations in life. No matter how much you try to help them you'll only become another person to blame in the long run. That's what they're looking for, and they'll stop at nothing to find it.

I wish this message was more uplifting. But, this is all from my personal experience in a very intense, six year relationship. It pretty much broke my heart. Now we're apart and I'm much better off, and my ex is much worse off, just as you would expect. But that was the choice he made, time and time again. Always playing the victim. I had to respect his decision eventually. And since I am not a victimizer, since I'm not happy with that being my role in a relationship, it meant we had to part.

If it helps to think of it this way, her outbursts are a guise, manufactured to control you, a learned habit. But I think you know that already..

[Statikkk]

Hi Angela,

Thanks for the welcome. I can't believe it took me this long to realize that posting is in fact much more productive than just reading!

I have read that thread, and I do agree that she is probably a HDP [or HSP as I have also read in some places].

To be honest, I have mostly shared my feelings with her during heated conversations where it has no choice but to come out. She is fully aware of the issues and my feelings on the issues, as well as the potential for this to cost us our relationship. I have a problem with confrontation, so when things are all fine and good I'm more prone to riding out that peace than discussing these issues, which is my own fault, I know. It might be ignorance, but I can almost guarantee that if I spelled this out for her the way I did for you, it would be a steam bath long before I was finished telling her how I feel. I wrote her an email last week, which I know isn't the best form of communication but I figured might be the best way to convey these feelings without a fight. I ended up not even being able to click Send.

I think it's also worth saying that everyone has flaws, and I'm sure in some way she is reacting to mine. The thing is, I have spent a lot of time thinking about my flaws and none of them seem to be things that should cause her to react or behave the way she does. They are more along the lines of "procrastinator", "bad communicator of emotion", "drink a bit too much", etc. So if I bring up issues, she'll pin it back on me. Most recently she blew up at me in a fit of rage and called me defensive - why? Because she told me she was in a bad mood and she felt it was because she was feeding off my bad energy, and I felt the need to let her know that was strange because I actually felt the exact same way, that I was feeding off her energy. To me, my response could have led to us both saying "whoa that's so weird, total misalignment" but to her it was reason to go off the handle.

We went for a couple of counselling sessions a couple of months back, but she told me after that she didn't think it was an effective process. We may have gotten a little bit of help from it, but in the long run it did nothing. Also, she has taken a step back and agreed that there is an issue with her, but she doesn't seem to be able to address it on her own.

I've never known any of her friends or others we know to have gone through this with her - i.e. she has only acted this way towards me, from what I know. With others, she is pretty anti-social and stays pretty quiet. She would much rather spend time with her family [parents, sister] than anyone else and doesn't have many close relationships.

[Angela]

....Dan's post made me realize that nowhere in your post, Statikkk, do you say that you love or even like your wife; nor do you say anything positive about her at al -- except that she has many positive traits that make her the perfect wife! But -- does the perfect wife have her husband feel like he can't express himself about important issues, that he has to walk on eggshells? Does the PW verbally and physically abuse her husband, and demand that he completely subjugate his feelings to hers?

I guess I just want to ask you: when it's good, is that good enough?

[Statikkk]

Thanks very much for sharing your experience, Dan. You are right in that the first step, which will ultimately decide the course of my future is to stop avoiding conflict. So much easier said than done, but I have started making some progress on that, which I think is important. I'm worried about exactly what you said - that this process could go on for years before I realize there is no solution. Were you avoiding conflict, which led this to go on for years? Or did it go on that long in spite of your ability to address the issues?

To Angela's point - yes, I do like my wife very much, and I do love her. She is extremely loving when she hasn't been set off course by something. She is very affectionate, loves me for who I am and is smart and funny as hell. Those are all specific qualities that I have always considered to be requirements for me from a partner. That being said, this goodness is not good enough. It's very easy to determine that too - I am not happy, so that's it. Feelings are feelings.

A big part of me keeps saying "well marriage is difficult, everyone goes through a hard time in the beginning, you can't just run away from issues" but then I also know that this is supposed to be the honeymoon phase. If we have issues, aren't they supposed to be about who forgot to do laundry, or who needs to fill the car with gas?

[Angela]

Who cares about "supposed to"? Either what you're being works for you in generating a life you're in love with, or it doesn't.

You don't strike me as a person for whom being resigned, resentful, and repressed would work very well in generating a life you love.

[Angela]

Do you know about the classic communication exercise, in which both people agree that they'll take turns saying what's so for them -- the speaker says what's going on for her, and the listener must totally get it such that the speaker acknowledges that the listener has gotten it -- before the listener gets his chance to speak? Then you switch. The goal here is to really, wholly, generously listen to what the other person is saying as if you were the one saying it. To understand as a first priority, and to be understood as a second priority.

Do you think you and she would be willing to try it?

[Statikkk]

I totally agree - but aren't there situations in life where we need to put in a truckload of effort [during which we might not love life] to get results? I certainly would not want to go through what Dan went through, but I'm having trouble figuring out where to draw the line.

I think it makes sense that avoiding conflict is the first step, to truly understand how ugly this situation is.

The hardest part is when things are good, they are very good. She is a great person and we have a good time. It's so hard for me to think about not being with her when things are good, but then it's impossible to think about being with her when things are bad... and they are bad enough of the time that it just doesn't feel right at all.

I also cannot imagine going through the process of leaving, knowing what it would do to her. The part of me that does love her deeply would feel extremely guilty for a long time.

[Statikkk]

Regarding the communication exercise - I think it's definitely worth trying, I just think that because she already knows about the issues and the shaky situation it's put us in, the fact that she can't change based on that doesn't give me much hope for a communication exercise. It's definitelty worth a try though, Angela. Thanks for the thought.

[Dan.Linehan]

One thing you can try is NVC (non-violent communication).

NVC is a system that forces people to phrase things using a fair, consistent methodology instead of using emotional attacks.

The idea is that everything you want out of your relationship is a request that is currently being declined by your spouse. And you may or may not know why she is declining your requests. So, you request the things that you would like very directly, explaining exactly why they are important to you.

One of your requests would be that she attempt to be more warm and loving towards your family. She would basically say yes or no to this and give a reason. If she said "no" because "she doesn't like _______ about your family" you could make a request that she try to forgive those perceived indiscretions. Then she will say yes or no again and give another reason. Keep all your requests cool and calm and don't get sucked into any drama. Its all very simple. You make a request, then gauge her reaction. If she has an outburst, think of it that as being a request as well, but from her to you, then rephrase back to her as such. "Would you like me to ________ (do this)?" Be genuine and try to figure out what her real request is. Once she agrees on what her request is then you can accept or decline in the same way.

Worst case scenario it'll make it very clear to you (possibly in a not so nice way) that she is unwilling to acknowledge or respect any of your requests. And that's her choice. She does have that choice, to decline every request you make. Just like you have a choice to accept or decline her request to move in together.

Best case scenario she may realize that she is declining every request you make and will start working on things..

[Dan.Linehan]

Angela, I'm going to have to request that you stop taking my ideas before I have a chance to post them..

Don't make me get non-violent!

[Rose of Cairo]

Statikkk, you're confusing things here. HSP is absolutely not the same as HDP. Your wife is not a HSP. I mean, maybe she is, but this is not the reason why she reacts that way.

Overreacting, being angry, upset, or sad, and having a bad communication style, has nothing to do with being a HSP. There are enough HSPs who are peaceful and perfectly able to communicate in a sensible way. HSPs should even be able to communicate better than others because of their empathy and sensitivity.

Actually, the more I read about your wife screaming, fighting and being intolerant of opinions different from her own, the more I think this cannot be a HSP. So please do some more research about HSPs before you assume that about your wife.

What you call "sensitivity" to me looks not at all like sensitivity but more like old pain she carries with her and that comes out every time something triggers it. She probably gets her buttons pushed. HDP, not HSP.

Of course Dan is right, it's about taking responsibility. But are you taking 100% responsibility? To me it doesn't look that way.

What you're saying is "my wife would be perfect if she wasn't like she is, and now she's screwing up our marriage". I exaggerate, but you get the idea. I get the impression that you put all the responsibility for the relationship problems on her shoulders and it's not your fault at all. like

I have spent a lot of time thinking about my flaws and none of them seem to be things that should cause her to react or behave the way she does.

It takes two to tango, however. Why do you accept her behavior if it's disrespectful? Why do you agree to get treated so badly? If you already knew it could be problematic before proposing her, why did you propose her?

And why don't you love your wife like she is? Why do you say she's overly emotional? Maybe you're driving her crazy with something you couldn't even think of (like not loving her unconditionally, and she feels that).

Also, why do you avoid conflicts? You seem to say "well I have a problem with that, and that's how it is." So, why don't you work on that instead of trying to bring her to face her own issues?

she has taken a step back and agreed that there is an issue with her, but she doesn't seem to be able to address it on her own.

And what about your own issues? They have just as much to do with your relationship problems as your wife's issues! Do you agree that you have them? Are you able to address them on your own? I don't see that.

I'm sorry, I realize now that my post sounds quite harsh. That's not my intention. I'm trying to help you. What I can see is of course that your wife has a problem, but also that you have one within yourself. Your wife is not here, we cannot reach her. But you are here.

You cannot control your wife and how she handles her problems. But you can deal with your own issues, and that's what I would like to encourage you to do. Sometimes, when we learn to deal with something inside of ourselves, our problems with the external world just vanish. Sometimes not. You'll have to decide whether to stay with her or not. But to do so, it would be really helpful to examine your own issues first.

Best wishes to you, and lots of love

[Bliss Sage]

I was going to say similar things to what Rose said, especially since I've been in a relationship with a guy with similar issues and sometimes I would scream so much at him I felt like I could have had a heart attack. I swear I yelled and got so angry sometimes just in the hopes of getting some emotional response out of him, some sign that he was alive--oh for him to have yelled back at me! It was the most awful experience to be in a relationship with him, he was so infuriatingly mentally slow and emotionally passive and dead...

In the end, I left him. Thank God, now he is with a female who is even less responsible and less ambitious than he is and, I guess, equal in mental agility.

Sometimes people are simply not compatible enough.

[Angela]

...aren't there situations in life where we need to put in a truckload of effort [during which we might not love life] to get results?

Nope. My view is: why take any action, let alone a truckload of effort, when it's not part of living a life you love? We certainly don't need to.

That's not to say that effort inspired within a life you love has to be pleasurable. It might be painful or difficult. And for me, no effort -- painful or pleasurable -- is worthwhile if making it requires that loving my life be suspended.

So that's how I draw the line. Would this action serve me in living a life I love, or would it work better for me to let it go? If living a life you love entails putting a truckload of effort into your marriage, then by all means, do it. But if you're putting a truckload of effort into your marriage and you are resigned, resentful, and repressed at the same time, that doesn't look like living a life you love (not to me, anyway; it might to you.)

I'm not advocating for you to leave your wife, by the way. I am advocating for you to really be present in your life, and in your marriage, in a way that you haven't been being up till now. Only if you are present are you going to be able to make a clear and free choice about whether and/or how to stay.

There's a book I found useful when I was fighting with myself inside of a romantic relationship: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. Maybe it would help you, too. It gives you some great questions to ask yourself about what's going on for you in your relationship.

Good luck. I know it's difficult. Been there.

[JimOfferman]

Statikkk,

As I'm reading your posts, I notice two problems in your relationship with the rest being fallout that is caused by not taking care of these problems.

First and foremost you cannot avoid conflict in any healthy relationship. Conflicts never end a relationship, it is a failing to address those conflicts that actually causes the whole thing to come crashing down. You should always try to reach a resolution or, at the very least, an agreement to disagree. Doesn't mean you need to start shouting back at your wife (don't do that!), but rather that you calmly try to get to the bottom of what is actually causing the conflicts. Get help with that if you need it. But get it fixed!

Secondly, you seem to believe that your wife cannot change. That is a very limiting belief and it is also not true. Change your mind on this. I can guarantee you that things will get better once you do. Why? Because next time you're having an argument, you'll be thinking: "this sucks, but I know she is working hard to change herself" As a result of that, you will automatically respond with more consideration for her and she will feel better for it. Your conflict will diminish simply because you have adopted a more positive mindset about it.

You have all the power.

[Statikkk]

Thanks very much for all the thoughts, this is great dialogue and very helpful.

Rose of Cairo, I appreciate the suggestion that she might be just carrying some old pain, but it surprised me that if that's the case, this pain affects so many areas of her life. Our issues are not her only issues - she is anti-social to the point where she does not maintain many friendships, and those she does are with people that don't have very high expectations regarding communication, reliance, etc. She also has had trouble staying put anywhere in her career - my opinion is that this has quite a bit to do with her issues, though this could be debated.

You're also right that it does take two to tango, and I agree that I need to take responsibility by not avoiding conflict and determining the source of the issues. And no - I'm not saying I avoid conflict and that's just how I am - I'm saying I avoid conflict and I know I need to change that. That being said - I do feel I can say that the issues that are hurting our marriage are her issues, and not mine. That might sound like I'm not taking responsibility, but our relationship is fine when her behaviour doesn't include anger and hostility. My behaviour has also been consistent throughout, whereas hers has intensified dramatically since marriage.

Bliss - I'm not THAT emotionally constipated I'm just not nearly as emotional as her. So from that perspective, that gap could be viewed as my flaw. At the end of the day I'm not really interested in pointing fingers about flaws, I just want to find a solution.

JimOfferman - good points. I am trying to stay positive, but it's really difficult when someone is screaming at you over the smallest things. I think I need to spend more time figuring out how to get to the bottom of conflicts, because right now it seems too obvious - our conflicts arise when she takes something said/done by someone [me, a member of my family, a friend of hers] personally. With her friends she is much quieter, almost meek - but with me it's no holds barred.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Angela, I'm going to have to request that you stop taking my ideas before I have a chance to post them..

Don't make me get non-violent!

okay, but yours was different, and I think it complemented mine well! "Don't make me get non-violent" -- that is very funny!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Statikkk

Rose of Cairo, I appreciate the suggestion that she might be just carrying some old pain, but it surprised me that if that's the case, this pain affects so many areas of her life.

"Just" old pain? Old pain affects every area of our lives. It's astonishing how we build structures of our old pain in every nook and cranny.

That being said - I do feel I can say that the issues that are hurting our marriage are her issues, and not mine. That might sound like I'm not taking responsibility, but our relationship is fine when her behaviour doesn't include anger and hostility.

Statikkk, I get what you're saying: it's her stuff that's the problem in your marriage, and without her anger and hostility, your marriage would be pretty good. I'd like to invite you to take a look at this from a point of view of 100% responsibility. She doesn't sound like her behavior, or your marriage, is much of a problem for her -- she sounds like she's just fine with being angry, hostile and defensive. Although she may say she can see it's a problem and she'd like things to be otherwise, if that's what she's being, then she's okay with it. See what I mean? This is YOUR problem. If you try to solve your problem by changing her, you're going down a track of frustration and powerlessness.

I think what Rose is suggesting, and me, too, is that you have all the power in the world if you take on the notion that you have the power to completely transform your marriage by changing the way you are being, regardless of her thoughts or actions or anyone else's.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Statikkk

Rose of Cairo, I appreciate the suggestion that she might be just carrying some old pain, but it surprised me that if that's the case, this pain affects so many areas of her life.

I'm not surprised about that at all. If you take only one of the childhood decisions I once made, only one of my old pains (it was "I'm trapped"), it affected all areas of my life. All of them, my family, my body, my way to socialize, my relationships, my professional life.... everything. And not only slightly, I can assure you! Angela coached me out of it, you can ask her if you don't believe me. One sentence - a complete life influenced (if not to say ruined) by it. Now imagine that she probably has many of those decisions in her head. And you too. Imagine the mess...

Originally Posted by Statikkk

Our issues are not her only issues - she is anti-social to the point where she does not maintain many friendships, and those she does are with people that don't have very high expectations regarding communication, reliance, etc. She also has had trouble staying put anywhere in her career - my opinion is that this has quite a bit to do with her issues, though this could be debated

Originally Posted by Statikkk

I do feel I can say that the issues that are hurting our marriage are her issues, and not mine. That might sound like I'm not taking responsibility, but our relationship is fine when her behaviour doesn't include anger and hostility.

Yes, when. But that's not taking the whole package. Are you married with who she really is, or with who she could be when she's not angry?

You consciously chose to get married to a woman who's got anger issues and aggressions, who's got a low-quality social life and a disturbed professional life. Now you're blaming her for your problems, she's not like she should be. But you are the one who proposed her. That is definitely YOUR issue. Why would a perfectly balanced and positive guy choose such a partner in the first place?

Plus, tell me, how do you react when she shouts at you? If you avoid conflicts, I doubt you really firmly defend your boundaries. You cannot blame her for her behavior just because you're not able to react to it appropriately. That's not the way it works. Of course her behavior is not respectful. But you have to have clear boundaries and to be able to protect them no matter how the other one behaves. That is definitely your job.

Maybe if you did your job, she would change her behavior too? She can only abuse you if you allow her to do so.

If you don't take a hard look at yourself now, you won't solve the real problem.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Statikkk

I am trying to stay positive, but it's really difficult when someone is screaming at you over the smallest things. I think I need to spend more time figuring out how to get to the bottom of conflicts, because right now it seems too obvious - our conflicts arise when she takes something said/done by someone [me, a member of my family, a friend of hers] personally. With her friends she is much quieter, almost meek - but with me it's no holds barred.

It doesn't matter how big or small the thing is that started the conflict, it's all about how you handle things. As Angela has already stated, you don't control her actions, only yours.

Here's a practical suggestion for you: next time she wants to start an argument about something small, call her on that. Tell her something like: "I can't believe you would start a quarrel about something so very small! I refuse to take part in such a petty argument!" and then you walk away. In doing so you are sending a very clear signal that you disapprove of this kind of behavior. By walking away, you give her a chance to catch her breath and (hopefully) come up with a more appropriate action. You give her a chance to be(come) better. You are better too in this little scenario, because you are taking full responsibility for what is going on.

As for staying positive. If you can't do that -and I hate to brake this to you- then you have already lost.

[uberinquisitive]

She may have borderline personality disorder.

I have BPD, and some of the symptoms you describe are spot on to the disorder: volatile romantic relationships, inability to keep a job, chronic feelings of emptiness, rage that comes out of nowhere (and then suddenly disappears).

The good news is: BPD can get better over time. Your wife may never be totally emotionally steady, but she can greatly help herself by going into Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, as well as regular therapy. I also find that EFT helped me greatly (I went to an EFT practitioner, but many people do EFT themselves).

Now, I suggest that she goes into therapy because it sounds like her behavior is destructive to her life. I know my BPD was extremely destructive. It wasn't until about a year ago that I focused on helping my symptoms, and they've reduced about 40%. Doesn't sound like much, but it has made a HUGE difference in my quality of life.

I think, once she has her symptoms under control, then you guys can start focusing on the marriage. Until then, it's like trying to drain a pool when it's raining cats and dogs.

Any one, man or woman, who uses physical violence, is mentally ill and unstable. She needs help.

[Lola]

Welcome Statikkk -

I see there's quite a discussion going on in response to your post. I apologize that I've only read your OP - my brain is a bit frizzled tonight. I'll catch up later. Meantime, I do want to post a checklist that I've posted in these forums before - signs of an abusive partner. You can see if it resonates with your situation.

Domestic Violence and Abuse: Signs and Symptoms of Abusive Relationships

DO YOU:
Feel afraid of your partner much of the time?
Avoid certain topics out of fear of angering your partner?
Feel that you can't do anything right for your partner?
Believe that you deserve to be hurt or mistreated?
Wonder if you're the one who is crazy?
Feel emotionally numb or helpless?

DOES YOUR PARTNER:
Humiliate, criticize or yell at you?
Treat you so badly that you're embarrassed for your friends or family to see?
Ignore or put down your opinions or accomplishments?
Blame you for his/her own abusive behavior?
See you as property or a sex object, rather than as a person?
Have a bad and unpredictable temper?
Hurt you, or threaten to hurt or kill you?
Threaten to take your children away or harm them?
Threaten to commit suicide if you leave?
Force you to have sex?
Destroy your belongings?
Act excessively jealous and possessive?
Control where you go or what you do?
Keep you from seeing your friends or family?
Limit your access to money, the phone, the car?
Constantly check up on you?

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by Lola

DO YOU:
Feel afraid of your partner much of the time?
Avoid talking out of fear of angering your partner?
Feel that you can't do anything right for your partner?
Believe that you deserve to be hurt or mistreated?
Wonder if you're the one who is crazy?
Feel emotionally numb or helpless?

DOES YOUR PARTNER:
Humiliate, criticize or yell at you?
Treat you so badly that you're embarrassed for your friends or family to see?
Ignore or put down your opinions or accomplishments?
Blame you for his/her own abusive behavior?
Have a bad and unpredictable temper?
Hurt you, or threaten to hurt or kill you?
Act excessively jealous and possessive?
Control where you go or what you do?
Keep you from seeing your friends or family?
Limit your access to money, the phone, the car?
Constantly check up on you?

With the modifications I made to this quote, it's now the perfect description of my father (in a nutshell), my formative years with him and essentially any interaction with him (so I have none). I wonder what you're supposed to do about it, it's not like you can leave your father like you can just leave a partner. Hmmm...

Bliss - I'm not THAT emotionally constipated I'm just not nearly as emotional as her.

Good to know . It was an example. Likewise, I'm not quite as off-the-handle as your wife (towards the end I was actually trying to get him to leave me, but by God he would not and I had to do the leaving). Have you seen how your wife treats her own family members? People always tend to be meanest to the ones who love them, because no one else would put up with that nastiness.

I guess there's nothing more I can add to what has already been said anyway. If your wife does not want to or does not improve her treatment, or frankly, even become more communicative, because just shouting at someone is not communicative, if I were you, I would leave her. She could approach her over-sensitivity differently, she could verbalize it instead of react. She could say that something hurt her instead and say why and/or figure out why.

Good luck with working it out

[Statikkk]

Hi Lola,

I have indicated my answers to the abuse checklist below. I've never even considered that this was actually an abusive relationship, to be honest.

DO YOU:
Feel afraid of your partner much of the time? - YES, at times
Avoid certain topics out of fear of angering your partner? - YES
Feel that you can't do anything right for your partner? - NO
Believe that you deserve to be hurt or mistreated? - NO
Wonder if you're the one who is crazy? - NO
Feel emotionally numb or helpless? - NO

DOES YOUR PARTNER:
Humiliate, criticize or yell at you? - YELLS ONLY
Treat you so badly that you're embarrassed for your friends or family to see? - NO
Ignore or put down your opinions or accomplishments? - NO, BUT CANNOT ACCEPT IF MY OPINION IS DIFFERENT FROM HERS
Blame you for his/her own abusive behavior? - NO
See you as property or a sex object, rather than as a person? - NO
Have a bad and unpredictable temper? - YES
Hurt you, or threaten to hurt or kill you? - NO
Threaten to take your children away or harm them? - N/A
Threaten to commit suicide if you leave? - NO
Force you to have sex? - NO
Destroy your belongings? - NO
Act excessively jealous and possessive? - YES
Control where you go or what you do? - INDIRECTLY via emotional blackmail
Keep you from seeing your friends or family? - INDIRECTLY via emotional blackmail
Limit your access to money, the phone, the car? - NO
Constantly check up on you? - NO

[Statikkk]

Hi Uberinquisitive,

I have considered that she may have borderline personality disorder, and thanks so much for sharing specific types of therapy which could help. We had a couple of sessions with a counselor a couple of months ago, which did not seem to have much affect [although it was clear from those 2 sessions that for it to be effective, counselling would not to be an almost permanent process].

The symptoms you described all apply. She often seems lacking in direction or purpose, as if searching for some extremely high purpose that she cannot attain. She either finds strong attraction in people, or, for the most part finds most relationships fairly empty and of little value. With those she is close to, she is extremely close, specifically her immediate family. She is fairly distrusting and combative with me, though I've never given her any reason not to trust me. She can flip from being extremely angry or cold to being highly affectionate and loving in the span of a few minutes.

The one thing I don't quite understand is the connection between BDP and the apparent emotional manipulation she seems to employ. That doesn't seem like it's related - is it?

[Statikkk]

So I think I was apply some of the learning from this thread to my situation last night.

My parents have been very concerned about my situation and wanted to spend some time with me last night alone. Partly to discuss the issues, but also because when she comes along to visit it's a very strained visit - she often says nothing, staring at the floor while everyone else is in conversation [despite their constant attempts to include her]. More often than not, at some point in the visit she will decide someone has said something meant to inflict damage on her, and then the car ride home will be spent with her either sulking in silence while I ask "what's wrong?" or her telling me how mean either my mom, dad or sister was that night.

Anyway, I decided fairly late in the afternoon to go over and visit. She emailed to ask if I was coming home for dinner around 5:30, and I told her I was gonna go hang out with my family. She responded tersely, clearly annoyed with it. I paid the visit and got home to her around 10PM, at which point she gave me the cold shoulder, gave one word answers [at the most], and exhibited generally bad attitude. I asked her what's wrong, and she started yelling at me about letting her know so late that I wasn't coming home for dinner, how wrong it is for me to do that, how wrong it is that she was not invited, etc.

At this point I would normally be pretty angry and argue back about how petty and ridiculous she was being. Instead, I kept calm and spoke back very logically, asking her if she really feels that such a small issue is worthy of yelling at me and making me feel bad for visiting my parents. She continued yelling and started crying while yelling. I told her I that I did not feel good about what she was saying and that I would appreciate if she would not yell at me. She continued, so I told her I cannot continue the conversation, and walked away. I went to bed a few minutes later while she stayed in the other room. I didn't sleep for hours, fearing that she would come into the room at any moment and wake me up to either continue yelling or crying.

I am glad that I did not skirt the issue, and that I remained calm and made it very clear that I did not think her behavior was appropriate. I feel very strange though about feeling fear. What do I possibly have to fear about her? I think I know she is not going to hurt me, so why fear to the point of not sleeping for hours, trying not to make noise in bed so she will not realize I'm awake, etc? It feels so ridiculous. I've never felt like this before.

[Lola]

Statikkk - I posted the abuse checklist because I have some long-term, first-hand experience with such a situation. Various things you said activated my *abuse recognition* trigger. Although as a society we're slow to recognize it as such, women can and often are the perpetrators in domestic abuse/violence. In my experience, if your relationship continues long-term as it exists now, you will at some point be answering *yes* to all of the "Do You?" questions.

This post is going to be pretty long but I pulled quotes from your original and subsequent posts to show what caught my attention and to respond to specific points.

From the beginning of our relationship, I recognized that she was highly emotional and that I needed to take care in what I say and do around her. Over time, this has become an absolute nightmare. I feel like I am constantly walking on eggshells to ensure she is doesn't get angered, upset or sad by anything I say or do.

These are BIG red flags. Altering your behavior, censoring actions and speech to avoid *setting someone off*, taking such extreme care in monitoring her and yourself that the eggshells remark indicates are all signs of, not just conflict avoidance, but abuse avoidance. *Walking on eggshells* is an exact quote from my life, btw. Mature, loving, considerate relationships do not exhibit such characteristics.

There have been several instances where a pretty standard conversation has ended with her screaming at me enraged, and there have even been a couple of times when she was physical [though she didn't actually inflict any pain or damage].

Emotional abuse is still abuse. She is controlling you with her emotional outbursts. However, I caution against discounting the physical abuse as well. Physical is physical. No one has the right to inflict their rage upon you in a physical manner. It doesn't matter if it didn't really hurt. The danger sign is that she loses emotional and physical control.

In general, it feels like I can't have an opinion on anything if it is different than hers.

This is control.

If I feel very strongly and decide to debate her thoughts on something, I have to be prepared for a fight which will end in her anger and subsequent lack of communication for hours or days. It feels like our entire relationship is driven by her emotions, to the point where my own emotions are now on the backburner.

And again. Control.

It's making me feel very resentful towards her.

Resentment alone, even in absence of any other issue you describe, will kill a marriage.

I will do almost anything to avoid conflict.

Others have commented on this and you've acknowledged a willingness to address it. Good for you. You're right, it's no way to live. The question becomes, once you've mastered not avoiding, does the conflict still exist and is it worth engaging in conflict so frequently in your most *intimate* relationship?

The only major exception I take is when she gets physically or verbally confrontational, but even then she will apologize and smooth things over and everything, on the surface, is back to normal.

This is classic abuser behavior. Back in the day, before I *got it*, I used to compare my ex's behavior to that of an out of control alcoholic. Raging, inappropriate, threatening, belittling behavior one minute (or day), sweet, conciliatory, "I love you so much" apologetics the next. Keeping you off balance (there's the eggshell thing again) is an abuser's most effective tool in control.

The thing is, I have spent a lot of time thinking about my flaws and none of them seem to be things that should cause her to react or behave the way she does.

Nothing you do causes her to do anything. She chooses her behavior. She chooses her reactions. She chooses her life. You are not responsible for that. It is her choice. Your choice is how or if you deal with it.

We went for a couple of counselling sessions a couple of months back, but she told me after that she didn't think it was an effective process.

Traditional marital or couples therapy is almost always ineffective when an abuser is part of the mix.

she has only acted this way towards me,

Another BIG red flag. The difference in what you describe with your wife and my situation was my ex was considered by most everyone to be one of the greatest guys on earth. He really only let his true nature show when it was just the two of us. (Which added greatly to my constant state of mental confusion and made it really hard to leave since no one else had a clue. "Why is she leaving the greatest guy on earth???")

I'm worried about exactly what you said - that this process could go on for years before I realize there is no solution.

Nothing to say here other than - yep. It could and most likely will go on for years and will only get worse. And worse.

I also cannot imagine going through the process of leaving, knowing what it would do to her. The part of me that does love her deeply would feel extremely guilty for a long time.

I won't sugarcoat this for you. It is hard to leave. The guilt is hard to process. But, again, she is solely responsible for her life and for her choices. At some point (hopefully before you're suicidal) you have to decide if you're worth saving. If you want to live your life and your choices free of such an acrimonious environment.

My parents have been very concerned about my situation

Another big red flag.

I didn't sleep for hours, fearing that she would come into the room at any moment and wake me up to either continue yelling or crying.
---
What do I possibly have to fear about her? I think I know she is not going to hurt me, so why fear to the point of not sleeping for hours, trying not to make noise in bed so she will not realize I'm awake, etc? It feels so ridiculous. I've never felt like this before.

You've been programmed to expect certain behavior and repurcussions and to respond accordingly. You felt fearful because you stepped off script. You didn't do what you usually do, what you're *supposed* to do in response to her anger. Keep it up. It gets easier with time.

I gotta fly, but will check back later. PM me if you wish.

[Angela]

Statikkk, good for you for taking proactive steps. In your communication last night, you did a couple of things that I can see might leave you feeling incomplete:

-- you told her that the issue she was concerned about was small. (that's like telling her that her feelings don't matter.)

-- you told her, and yourself, that she had the power to *make* you feel bad about visiting your parents.

-- it sounds like you never got the chance to really listen generously to her concerns, and vice-versa.

I'm not saying you did anything *wrong* -- just that it sounds like there's more to do that has more commitment to understanding her. You might rebel against that -- "why should I commit to understanding her?! She won't understand me, or change her way of being!" -- and you don't have to. But what else do you think will make a difference in your relationship? What else would inspire her to want to make a difference in your relationship, too?

100% responsibility, baby. It's where it's at!

p.s...after reading Lola's great (yikes!) message, I want to say that only you can choose whether you want to leave or stay. But the communications I suggest are not for your wife, or for your marriage, so much as they are for YOU, so that YOU can feel as complete as possible in relationship, and will feel like you are on firm, understanding, loving ground, whatever choice you make about your actions.

Lots of love.

[Statikkk]

Firstly, thanks so much to everyone who has committed time and energy to replying in this thread - I am truly grateful and it's amazing to know that this forum works so incredibly well with such a great level of support.

It does sound more and more like abuse, and control, but for some reason I find it really hard to believe that this is intentional at all. I truly feel she is oblivious to the fact that what she is doing is very detrimental to her life. I don't think she is purposely trying to control me, or manipulate me, or even in acting so hostile one day and sweet the next - I feel it is her recovering once she realizes she has gone off. I could be wrong, but I'd be very surprised if I found out this was at all intentional or malicious. To me it seems more along the lines of what Dan said early in this thread, that these are learned habits.

It's also possible that I have conveyed only the issues and not brought to light how amazing the good side of her is. She has everything I have always wanted in a partner, but she has a lot that I don't want at all [and more importantly simply cannot put up with].

I think a large part of me has resigned to the fact - and maybe this is a limiting belief - that things are not going to work out. And moreso than guilt of hurting her, I am having a hard time imaging that I am leaving those amazing qualities while also leaving the bad. What if I'm wrong? What if I realize later that the good is worth the bad? When I think about it now, the answer is a resounding "no way, it's not worth it" - but what if I am taking the good for granted?

As far as conflict avoidance goes, I won't know for sure how our relationship works until I set my boundaries and enforce them without hostile communication from my end. Angela, you are right that taking the next step to generously listening to her while she is yelling at me for random things will be very difficult. I'm not even sure how I am going to do that, but one step at a time and I think I can get there.