Relationship advice needed - difficult spouse interactions

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Statikkk

There is, however, something inside me that just isn't sitting right. I don't feel *joyous* inside, and I suppose it's obvious enough that my wife has asked about it a couple of times. I'm not sure what it is, so I don't know what to say to her.

I still have a deep-rooted concern that we are very different emotionally. I find her to be very reactive, emotional and vulnerable. I've come to accept that she is who she is, and that I can only take responsibility for my own feelings and not her feelings or actions; but on the other hand she feels I'm not reactive or vulnerable enough..

This scenario is very familiar to me. Hopefully I'm not out in left field here, but I'm going to give you my perspective and you can take it or leave it of course. Being that I consider your wife and myself similar, I can imagine she is picking up on conflict that's going on inside you even without you expressing it outwardly. Only a couple of weeks before we broke up, my bf was not acting any differently but I could feel something was just off. I told him I was scared but I couldn't put my finger on why. Now I feel like I was picking up on the energy of his confusion even though he wasn't talking about it. Not sure if that's what's happening with you two, but just keep in mind that for people who are very "feely" something you are working on in your mind translates as energy somehow. Wish I could explain it better!

Originally Posted by Statikkk

When something difficult happens to me, I'm rarely bothered for very long. For me, I feel I can filter unhappy emotions and turn them into something more positive. From her perspective, it looks like I block or avoid pain or sadness, which to her makes it difficult to relate to me since I'm always striving towards positivity, which she feels indicates an unwillingness to share my deepest feelings. This makes me feel like I need to take a step back and learn how to be more vulnerable - but why? As my own person, I'm actually proud that I am not vulnerable to negative emotion. I am thankful that while some experience much more sadness because they don't take responsibility for how they feel, I have learned that I get to choose my response to any stimulus.

This is a sticking point for us because as individuals we are free to follow whichever path we choose, but to come together as a couple and share together, it's much more difficult if we are so different emotionally.

It's just all so familiar! In our case I am pretty sure still that at times he was ignoring or blocking considering he said as much to me, but I can see that you are working on not being ruled by your emotions. I do think feelings can be useful and should be taken for what they are, maybe explored. But I don't think you need to be more vulnerable. As someone who is having to work extremely hard to not be overrun by emotions, it's hard to relate. It probably is for your wife as well. We just can't understand your side, just as you have trouble understanding ours. I imagine it is very difficult to be in your position, even draining. But I know the other side so well too. Man, I really wish I could put it into words better!!

It seems like you are still deciding if you even want to stay with your wife. It's very valid to look at that question, you two are very different emotionally like you said. My only advice would be to talk to her about what you've said here using the communication style Dan and Angela suggested earlier. I would like to urge you to decide whether you want to stay or go first and then work from there. As painful as a divorce would be, being in a wishy-washy relationship seems harder -- at least from the emotional lady perspective .

I am really not sure if what I've said here helps much. It seems like you already get all of this and are just in a place where you have to decide what you want. I do believe you can love someone and just not be willing -- or have the energy -- to work through certain things with them. That's a hard one to come to terms with (particularly when you are on the receiving end), but I think it's really true.

I am wishing you crazy amounts of clarity and peace in this situation. Good luck.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Statikkk

Ooooh I just realized I got a Kiss from a Rose

Did you know,
That when it snows,
My eyes become large and,
The light that you shine can be seen.

LOL.

[Statikkk]

Hiya,

It's interesting how you and I are like the ying and yang of our respective relationships. I'm really glad we have had the opportunity to connect and share this way.

You're definitely right - like you, she has the ability to pick up on my energy very easily. In this case it's even easier, since she's already fully aware of my internal conflict as it relates to our relationship, but I've always been amazed at how she picks up on things. This aspect of her makes me feel bad about having a problem with her sensitivity to things, since it's obviously so much a part of her and not just a characteristic to be suppressed.

And yeah, I don't think I have fully decided anything. I don't think I've ever had a problem in my life where I swayed so heavily from having one opinion to the other. A week ago I was so close to wanting to leave, then after I opened up the communication I felt so much better. Now I'm kinda half way in between the two feelings. I feel so easily influenced [by her when I am with her and things are good, by anything but her when I'm not with her and things are not good] that it's scary, since I'm not usually like this.

How are things in your world? How are you taking care of yourself?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Statikkk

Hiya,

It's interesting how you and I are like the ying and yang of our respective relationships. I'm really glad we have had the opportunity to connect and share this way.

I have been feeling incredibly drawn to your thread because I feel like it gives me a glimpse into the "other side" which has been really helpful. It's also been kind of hard to look at. But even so I am glad for the opportunity as well. Thanks for talking with me.

Originally Posted by Statikkk

You're definitely right - like you, she has the ability to pick up on my energy very easily. In this case it's even easier, since she's already fully aware of my internal conflict as it relates to our relationship, but I've always been amazed at how she picks up on things. This aspect of her makes me feel bad about having a problem with her sensitivity to things, since it's obviously so much a part of her and not just a characteristic to be suppressed.

And yeah, I don't think I have fully decided anything. I don't think I've ever had a problem in my life where I swayed so heavily from having one opinion to the other. A week ago I was so close to wanting to leave, then after I opened up the communication I felt so much better. Now I'm kinda half way in between the two feelings. I feel so easily influenced [by her when I am with her and things are good, by anything but her when I'm not with her and things are not good] that it's scary, since I'm not usually like this..

Yet again it's like looking in a mirror. I don't envy your position even though I know how hard this must be for your wife as well. A really difficult thing to come to grips with is that my ex still loves me and he misses me (so he says), but yet he doesn't feel like he can deal. He also has a great deal of his own issues to work on, which I think makes it harder being with someone who is also going through a challenging transformation (or at least I am trying). He went back and forth between "I can't deal with this anymore" and "I love you and miss you too much to stay away." When it's good, it's fantastic, but then there are those other times...

I think he could also see how deeply ingrained this sensitivity is, and I had already started to try, but with everything else going on it was just too much I guess. If it's any consolation, he also said it was the first time he had so much turmoil over a decision...no? well, I wish I knew what would make it easier -- for all of us.

Originally Posted by Statikkk

How are things in your world? How are you taking care of yourself?

I am having a spell of bad days right now coming to grips with several things. I am facing the cost of my way of being and it's tough. But I am also just feeling it all and accepting it so I can hopfully make a change for the better. Right now I am trying to work on myself. I really miss the boy, but as I see things more from his point of view I am trying to let go. It's been slow at work, so I am coasting there. I've been taking it easy at home, just trying to relax and do some fun stuff -- watched a bunch of old episodes of Alias last night. I am really looking forward to moving. That's my bright spot right now.

I really do appreciate this conversation. Thanks! Take care of yourself too.

[Statikkk]

Yeah, it really doesn't seem like there are any shortcuts to this. I could easily say that if I leave and I move forward without looking back, that's the easiest solution for me. But if there is oneness, then her pain, regardless of how I choose to handle it, still exists, just as yours exists. And I know if I were to leave there would be pain I didn't know would show up.

If I could snap my fingers and suddenly be single and see her in a happy relationship more aligned with her inner being, I think I would do it in a heartbeat. I think she also realizes that I am not on her level emotionally, which is not only difficult for me but also difficult for her. She isn't getting what she needs from this relationship, and I'm getting things I'm not interested in. How much change can occur for both of us before we are aligned enough that there is no doubt?

And on that note, is there supposed to be doubt? What if all relationships come with a dose of doubt that is just normal? What if some of us question it more than others, or even perceive it more than others? Maybe this strain is something some people have always expected and don't question, while others cannot handle. I guess this whole idea strays from the idea of conscious living, since it's concerned with right/wrong and standards outside of oneself, but I can't help but think about it. The grass is always greener on the other side, right?

The only thing that makes me not pay too much attention to that doubt is the fact that I almost never hear someone say "I left my spouse and it was the worst thing I ever did". I almost never hear about couples who split and get back together and everything works out. And, I very often hear people say "I left my spouse X years ago and it was the best thing I have done". So maybe when it's not meant to be, it's really not meant to be. The gut is right. It seems to work in most other facets in life, so I don't know why I'm excusing it here.

Sometimes I think to myself, I wish I had a laid-back, chilled out wife like most of my buddies. And then I also realize, I wouldn't actually want to be with any of my buddies wives. And that makes me question whether or not marriage is right for me at all.

So complicated.

I think a change in environment will be awesome for you. Make this new apartment all about you, all about what's in your heart. I know it's hard, but I don't feel you should be concerned with the "cost" of your ways. Interesting that I would say this, but it's not you that had a difficult way about you, nor him. It was what lies between you. As much as we covet the beauty and power of love and relationships, none of it is fixed or permanent, just like everything else in life. I think you deserve more you, and less un-you

[Angela]

Statikkk, have you picked up that book, Too Good to Leave, to Bad to Stay yet? It is organized to help you see clearly the answers to the questions you asked in this last post, and help you make a powerful choice.

Best wishes; I know this is really difficult.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Yep, yeah, yes, aha. Every single question you are asking yourself, I've asked myself as well. I am not even sure what to add because I am still asking them. Sorry to say I don't have all the answers yet!

One suggestion that I have heard of people trying is a trial separation. Although it sounds like you'd rather be out than in, if not for her feelings. I bet that is hard, but even though I am in a lot of pain and miss my bf dearly, I wouldn't want him to stay just so I wouldn't feel bad. How sad for him to live that way! I think you do have to do what is best for you. And it's possible to leave in a peaceful and loving way with understanding.

In my case I can't say that I am happier right now with us being apart, but it has only been a month anyway. I have a feeling he is feeling freer and happier, despite missing me. That is just my observation and feeling on it, not something he's told me (because he wouldn't tell me that so as not to hurt my feelings). It really is complicated isn't it?

There is a song that I love by Loudon Wainwright III, but it always makes me cringe when I hear it too. It feels appropriate. I can't find it on You Tube, but the lyrics are:

The sad thing is I'm so damn happy
Who'd blame her if she were to slap me
The sun should not shine when there's rain
I should be in a lot more pain
At least I should feel slightly crappy
But the sad thing is I'm so damn happy

And the worst thing is it's so much better
That admission would upset her
But it's true and it's beyond belief
What I feel is sheer relief
I may regret the day I met her
And the worst thing is it's so much better

It's comic that it's all so tragic
It's that hum-drum novel old black magic
Let's have a laugh after we cry
Let's hope we live before we die
The silly clown's red nose is runny
And it's tragic that it's all so funny

It's crucial that it doesn't matter
Vows of love are idle chatter
To feel this good has to be bad
I'm so damn happy that it's sad
Dear listener would you like to slap me
And the sad thing is I'm so damn happy
Yes the sad thing is I'm so damn happy

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Statikkk

Ooooh I just realized I got a Kiss from a Rose

Did you know,
That when it snows,
My eyes become large and,
The light that you shine can be seen.

LOL.

How sweet, you just won another kiss

I'm (obviously) very emotional, reactive and vulnerable too. Honestly now, unemotional, thinking people are pretty scary aren't they I think she can learn how to get along with her emotional side well, though. It's just a matter of learning a few fundamental principles (like the holy 100% resp.) and maybe a few more physical techniques like EFT or shielding. It's doable if she wants to - to a certain extent.

But you have to respect and accept each other completely, that's the point where I see it could be difficult.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Statikkk

And on that note, is there supposed to be doubt? What if all relationships come with a dose of doubt that is just normal? What if some of us question it more than others, or even perceive it more than others? Maybe this strain is something some people have always expected and don't question, while others cannot handle.

I kind of just noticed this part so I have a little bit more to add . I think it just comes down to different personality or way of seeing things. Because I was happy to stay in the relationship, even when it was really hard, and keep trying because I love him. But, even though he loves me, he couldn't do that. To me the benefits outweighed the cost, but to him I guess the cost outweighed the benefits. See what I mean? I don't think either is "right" or "wrong" just different. In the end you have to do what is best for you. Even if it hurts her, and you know where I am coming from in saying that. I think the worst would be to always resent the relationship or have a constant thought of leaving in the back of your mind. A break up is a moment you can move on from. Always wondering if your spouse is really there when they're there would be harder. And she would probably feel the sense of sacrifice that would go along with that.

[Statikkk]

Angela - no, I haven't picked up that book yet. I probably should. Dunno where I would get a chance to read it though - would seem odd to be sitting on the couch reading a book like that in front of my wife - LOL.

Aspiring, you're right the lyrics to that song are kinda sad. But at the same time, with bigger picture scope it's not really that bad. Maybe it's truly important in life to understand the dangers of co-dependency and the expectations that come with it. Everything I have read says to be wary of getting too close to anyone but yourself in life. I really wonder how happy I would be if I were out of this relationship. I do know that whenever I think of it, I feel a huge sense of relief. As if I am suddenly free to be me again. I'm sure part of that is fear, part is laziness to want to revert rather than deal with the situation. I just knew where all the fine lines are.

Last night I was with a couple of buddies at one guys apartment, hanging out, having a few drinks and goofing around. His wife came home with a girlfriend of hers around 11PM, they joined right in and made themselves a couple of drinks and hung out. And I thought to myself, that would never ever happen with my wife. Socially she would not be open enough to mix crowds, or just have a friend drop in without prior plans. She would offer tea, if anything. They wouldn't mix so easily. Why is it so easy for them and so hard for us? I'd love to have more in common with my wife like that, for it to be easy and free and fun.

Rose, I don't feel I'm unemotional. I think I'm a fairly typical guy, but I'm also the type that will go dress shopping with my wife and watch sappy movies with her, not because I have to but because I want to. I don't draw clear male/female distinctions like most guys do. That being said, I'm obviously not emotional enough for her. I'm sure though that most guys would say the same thing - "I'm not unemotional, she's just too emotional" so maybe deep down I'm just fooling myself.

At the end of the day, differences are fine if you can live in honest and trustful harmony, right? That's so important, so why is it so hard to achieve?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Statikkk

Everything I have read says to be wary of getting too close to anyone but yourself in life. I really wonder how happy I would be if I were out of this relationship. I do know that whenever I think of it, I feel a huge sense of relief. As if I am suddenly free to be me again.

In my opinion being in a relationship or being very close to someone else is not the problem. To me it seems more like you are not close enough to yourself. It looks like your identity gets lost in this relationship. It gets lost when you come to close to someone else because it's weakly defined.

I'm afraid that if you go, you would have the exact same problem in the next relationship. You don't seem to have strong boundaries or to be strongly in touch with yourself. If I were you (and I've been you...) I would work on defining myself and protecting my boundaries much more strongly. Maybe with a counselor, or with some books about the subject. I worked with german ones, but I bet there are good ones in english too.

I bet this is a problem that affects not only your relationship, but also other areas in your life, even though you might see only the relationship stuff right now.

I think I'm a fairly typical guy, but I'm also the type that will go dress shopping with my wife and watch sappy movies with her, not because I have to but because I want to.

I don't see what dress shopping and watching sappy movies has to do with being emotional or not. I'm highly emotional and couldn't care less about dress shopping and sappy movies.

I don't draw clear male/female distinctions like most guys do.

That's not my impression. In my eyes you're full of gender stereotypes
IMO being emotional or unemotional has nothing to do with your gender. (edit: btw, I know very emotional guys, so I doubt that "most guys" would say what you say. You're seeing the world through your biased lenses.)

That's so important, so why is it so hard to achieve?

It is hard to achieve when you're not being really yourself.

[Statikkk]

I think you're right, Rose. I need to define me for me. I have always felt that I define myself based on my environment and others happiness too much, which can be dangerous.

I feel like my interior and exterior are misaligned. While I feel very deeply carved out on the inside, I probably come across as being a surface-dweller on the outside. It's almost like I'm okay with being me on the inside to please myself, and pleasing others on the outside which again in the end, pleases me. But does it really?

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Statikkk

It's almost like I'm okay with being me on the inside to please myself, and pleasing others on the outside which again in the end, pleases me. But does it really?

If you define your sense of self as how much you please others, it's like building your house on a loose clay soil. You'll be fine as long as there's no rain and then one day you come home to find it has sunk below the surface... holy crap!

When you define your sense of self as how much you please yourself, it's like building your house on hardened rock. Come rain, come shine, your shack will always be right there for you.

What's even better is that your house on the rocks is a also great and secure place for offering shelter to others.

[Statikkk]

It feels exponentially better to focus on my own feelings than someone else's, and your house/soil analogy is exactly why. Not only do we not control the feelings of others, but it's impossible to know exactly what others feel anyway. Exact opposite in both cases when we look at ourselves.

[SonoranBob]

Originally Posted by Doku

... I finished with "We can talk about this when I get home, or when you feel you are ready."

I got home, and she was not there. The next day, I got a call from her mother that she was there. About two days later, she came home, and we discussed it.

At the time, we were married for about six months. we're still married 10 years later, and things are great.

Nice chops, Doku. It was particularly skillful not to go frantically hunting her down. I think your experience shows that you have to love enough to be willing to risk the entire relationship, when appropriate, to keep it on an honest footing.

When it comes down to it, most of the relationship conflicts you read about have a common thread running through them: no one ever sits down and actually talks honestly about what's going on. They keep tiptoeing past the graveyard hoping the relationship pain will simply go away by itself. Generally, this is because there's an unspoken subtext from one or both partners that there will be some kind of thermonuclear blast if the subject is so much as touched on. Eventually, dealing with the slightest issue threatens the whole relationship, due to domino effects.

So most relationships are a tissue of lies. Alas, in most relationships for one or both partners, it's like Jack Nicholson's character in A Few Good Men said: "Truth?! You can't handle the truth!"

It is important to be honest from the start of a relationship. Then you don't build up a "truth deficit" that will cause major work to deal / cope with. This requires knowing and understanding yourself and what you want, so you can pick your battles intelligently. Some things you can let slide. But most people let everything slide.

Anyway, I doffs me hat to ye, so I does. Well done.

--Bob

[danijelg]

To me it seems more like you are not close enough to yourself. It looks like your identity gets lost in this relationship. It gets lost when you come to close to someone else because it's weakly defined.

I'm afraid that if you go, you would have the exact same problem in the next relationship. You don't seem to have strong boundaries or to be strongly in touch with yourself.

This situation relates to mine in so many ways. I am one step away from ending the relationship which has gone bad, but I know that I am suffering from same deficiencies described in this quote by Rose.

Statikkk sorry for hijacking your thread, but somehow I feel that the next question could be interesting to you too:

Is it possible to work on your issues that are causing the relationship problems AND stay in the relationship? If the answer is yes I am quite clueless about how this can be achieved

[Statikkk]

Hi Danijelg,

Not only do I think it's possible, I think it's actually ideal.

Over the last week or two I've been able to look inwardly at myself and identify how to bring myself to the surface and live consciously. I still have a long way to go, but I think it is a lot easier when you are in a relationship and can see, in real-time, the results of your modifications. It's made me realize how much of an impact I have on the quality of my relationships [not just in my marriage but across my life].

[danijelg]

Thank you for a quick reply Statikkk. You can imagine how eager I am to see any posts on the subject

Somehow I just can't fit working on myself and staying in a relationship into the same picture. I see how disappointed my girlfriend is with me and how much she's hurt by the way things are. It makes me wanna end it all just to stop making both of us miserable. I know it doesn't make much sense but this is how I feel at the moment...