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Welcome to the Personal Development for Smart People Forums, the place for lively, intelligent discussion of all personal growth issues -- physical, mental, financial, social, emotional, spiritual, and more. You're currently viewing as a guest, which gives you limited read-only access. By joining our free community, you'll be able to post your own messages, access many members-only features, see the new messages posted since your last visit, and of course remove this header message. Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please join today. If you arrived here from a search engine, you may want to explore the main site first, which includes hundreds of deep and insightful articles on a variety of personal development topics. |
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01-30-2008, 09:52 PM
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 Brilliant. Thanks so much everyone, especially Angela for that script  Just to clarify - if she wants me to agree that X, Y and Z are true and I don't agree with any of the three, it would shorten to: Him: This is difficult for me, so please tell if if I've got this the way you want me to get it. You want me to agree that my family has done (x, y, and z) to you. If I don't tell you that I agree, then I am not really your teammate. Is that right? Her: Yes. And you can't just tell me you agree; you have to actually agree. Him: Okay -- If I don't agree with you on this and tell you so, you will feel that we're not on the same team. I get that. Do you have more to say about that? Her: No. Just tell me you agree! I won't go any further with this **** until you tell me you agree. Him: Okay. I can see where that would have you feeling (alone, powerless, sad). I don't agree that they did x, y or z, though; my experience is that they did not do z. Her: Okay, that proves it. We're not on the same team. Him: I get that you feel that way. Not feeling like you're on the same team as the man you're married to. That must feel pretty terrible! Is there some action that you'd like to take? Her: yeah, I'd like to punch you in the gut. Him: I hear you! You feel like lashing out violently. And -- I'm not going to let you punch me. Is there any other action you'd like to take, maybe one that wouldn't hurt anyone, especially me? Her: well, err, ummmm... Him: It looks like you need some time to think about that. Would you rather think about it with me in the house, or do you want some time to yourself to think about it? or, if she gets violent or verbally abusive: Him: I'm leaving now. Please call my cell when you feel like you can talk to me about this without being physically or verbally violent. (exit) I'm not trying to be a prick here and insist that I don't agree with any of her points. While it is mainly true that I don't, I would certainly at the very least respond by saying "I can see how they may have done some things that have been difficult for you". It will be much easier if she has things to say about me specifically - i.e. if she says I am defensive, I don't side with her, etc. Those are easy things, because no matter what I feel she must be right to some extent, and I can do a lot to sympathize with that. As an update, I decided to go ahead and send that email I had written which I mentioned at the start of this thread, with some modifications based on the immense help I have gained here in the past 2 days. She responded saying she appreciates my honesty, and that as hard as it was to read the email she is happy I voiced it all out. She also said she would really like it if I could print the email out as she would like to discuss this in person tonight. Woohoo! I am looking forward to this yet scared sh*tless at the same time By the way, I also wanted to say that I am truly amazed what an incredible set of people I have stumbled upon here. I've been an avid reader of stevepavlina.com for years [well, except for this recent raw food log which I couldn't care less about]. I've also lurked in these forums on and off for months but had no idea how awesome you all are until post #1. It's actually kinda surreal. Thanks everyone.      |
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01-30-2008, 10:14 PM
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01-30-2008, 10:22 PM
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| That's wonderful -- I'm so excited for you! You might want to start off by giving yourselves a rule: if things get too heated, either of you can call "Time Out" at any time, take ten minutes to get yourselves more tranquil, take some breaths, get a drink of water. |
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01-30-2008, 10:24 PM
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). Of course in your eyes they don't deserve such a bad treatment, so you think she should forgive them. But you cannot tell her what she should do or not do concerning other people. That's her problem, not yours. None of your business. Just like your parents have to solve their own problems with her, it has nothing to do with you. I know this seems pretty hard to you maybe, but remember: 100% responsibility for your own stuff, 0% for other people's stuff  Just because YOU need harmony and a conflict-free zone you cannot invade other people's territory and tell them what they have to do. Because it would actually be about you then (your need for harmony), not about her or your family. So if your wife hates your parents, that's something you have to deal with inside of yourself, you cannot expect them to change their behavior in order to solve your problem. See what I mean? I'm totally excited for you because of this conversation! Oh and if you have a little bit of time to prepare yourself, please read what I wrote about the old stinky sneaker (it's just two paragraphs). Maybe that can help you? If she says something that makes you feel bad in any way, remember not to pick up the old shoe... Good luck! Keep us posted!
__________________ Magical Chest - I'm Generating Hardcore Harmony |
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01-30-2008, 10:26 PM
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| Congratulations on this huge insight, by the way: Quote:
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01-30-2008, 10:46 PM
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| Awesome, I'm excited about all this excitment. It actually makes things a bit easier - I'll feel like all you folks are standing in my kitchen, yelling out reminders and sage advice And thanks for your stinky sneaker Rose In case anyone is still around, I'll be here for 20 more minutes before I head home and have one last question - what is the final goal of this type of conversation? After I have listened, understood, allowed her the space to share and she has gotten everything out [similar to how I did so in my email], what next? How does it end tonight? I'm sure she will want more than to just have me listen and understand, even if I don't. It can be confusing sometimes, because I have felt in the past [and sorry, I don't mean to bring old patterns in but it's hard] that there are times when she wants something, i.e. she wants me to acknowledge something, or agree with something, or just listen to her in the way she wants me to, and I have resisted, but when I recognize it and take away the resistance and give her what she wanted, it's as if that makes her more angry. As if me solving the issue is the *opposite* of what she wants. Sometimes it feels like she actually wants to get under my skin, and when I find a way out that should suit us both that makes things even worse. So, what's the goal? How should tonight end? |
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01-30-2008, 11:01 PM
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| I would say she really might not know what it is she wants. It sounds like a cop out, but for me it was true very often. As for what the goal for tonight should be, I will let someone wiser answer that! |
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01-30-2008, 11:02 PM
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You want to avoid jumping to conclusions and resolutions too quickly. Just be patient. Once people really start to make an effort to understand each other, conflicts have a tendency to unravel all by themselves. Good luck!
__________________ Jim Offerman ~ music that moves you blog - twitter - free music - join the fan club! |
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01-30-2008, 11:06 PM
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| Well, the aim of your conversation is up to you, of course; but if you can arrive at: Him: Do you feel like I heard you tonight the way you would like to be heard? Her: Yes. ...then I think that will be a major victory over the past, don't you. Just reaching a point where you both feel satisfied that you understood her is a big, big deal. You don't have to solve all your problems in one conversation. If you're feeling ambitious, you might also want to reach an agreement that you are both willing to find a solution to the disconnection in your relationship -- not to actually REACH the solution, but just to agree that you both want to and are willing to do what is necessary to find a third, as-yet unthought of way of being in a loving, long-term, mutually beneficial relationship. What do you think? |
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01-30-2008, 11:07 PM
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 Seriously, I think it's best to build a foundation of listening and understanding (like Jim said). For one, it's not all going to get fixed tonight. For another, I think it would be most helpful to go into the talk with an open mind - with no particular outcome that has to happen. The evening will be a success if genuine caring sharing takes place.
__________________ ~Lola~ "It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are." - e e cummings |
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01-31-2008, 02:46 PM
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| Seeking to understand before being understood. The way of Statikkk's future I came home and gave her the printout of the email and we agreed to talk. I sat down and she began going through all the points I had communicated in the email, and explained herself, her feelings that precipitated her actions, where she felt she was justified and also where she feels she has gone wrong. She indicated that she feels shame around certain things, such as some of the incidents involving my family as well as her physical aggression with me. She told me she is never going to act physically violent again. She also told me that much of the hostility has been rooted in her own problems, being out of a job for the last 2 months and dealing with everything at the same time. She told me that she does not think we need marriage counselling, but that she needs individual counselling to help her deal with her anger issues and to understand how to better manage differences between us. She has also started reading a book called "The Relationship Garden" which I had ordered after our previous counselor recommended it to us 2 months ago, and says she is learning a ton and it is opening her eyes to a lot of things. Almost all of the above occurred with me only listening and speaking only to clarify that I am getting her the way she feels she needs me to get her. I did not put forward any thoughts or opinions in an effort to listen and understand. After this part of the convo I asked her to please provide me with feedback on what I can do to improve our relationship as well. She told me she was concerned that I had bottled up so much which came out in the email. I explained that I can do better to communicate without avoiding confrontation, and that I have committed to communicating my needs better regardless of her reaction. She agreed that she can see why I have been bottling things up since it has been difficult for me to talk to her when her response has been hostile. She also asked me to guide her more and understand that there is a disconnect between how she digests and understands my opinions and how she reacts. She said that sometimes her reaction is based on one thing, but the understanding still happens in parallel. She also asked that I point out when and where I think she can improve, specifically in relations with my family, so that she can act on it right away. She agreed that this will be much easier when she is able to manage her reactions. We also agreed to do a weekly exercise where once a week, we send each other a note which lists the positive things from the previous week which made us happy, as well as our grievances on things that made us feel unhappy. It was a very positive conversation with no hostility whatsoever. We didn't even need a timeout. I feel that based on the advice I've received her, I approached the conversation in a way I never have before, and it was wonderfully effective. We've been through something like this before, where she indicated her need to improve, what she needs from me, etc. that led to a brief period of better times, but this case is much different in that our communication was much more open and caring, and we have more concrete goals in place that we can work towards. I have also committed to setting and enforcing my own boundaries better and avoiding avoiding conflict Interestingly, this morning she got a call she had been waiting for for weeks to let her know she got a great job she had interviewed for. Positive energy overflow action! Thanks again everyone. Awesomeness! |
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01-31-2008, 03:06 PM
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| Congratulations!!! That sounds wonderful. I am so happy for you two. Keep up the great work! |
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01-31-2008, 03:33 PM
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| Congratulations! Allow me to tip my hat to you, sir!
__________________ Jim Offerman ~ music that moves you blog - twitter - free music - join the fan club! |
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01-31-2008, 04:55 PM
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01-31-2008, 06:53 PM
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| Statikkk, Yes, I maintain a blog. Link below. Back to your original concern. First off, I'm married and have been for about 1.5 years.... not a long stretch by any measuring stick but I still have experience and a suggestion. Tell your wife how you really feel about her. This isn't easy, it takes courage! In my case, I was on the cuff of leaving my girlfriend because I was right and she was wrong. It was an ongoing battle of righteousness. When it came down to it I discovered that I had deep feelings for her and I didn't want to lose her. Since I was even more scared of losing her than telling her how I felt, I was able to mull up the courage to express my deep feelings for her. As soon as I did, her face lightened and her smile appeared. It was in that moment that I knew she had received my message. It transformed our relationship one year later we were happily married. If you have any other questions, you can find my contact info below: Stephen Martile — Personal Development Made Simple |
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02-01-2008, 06:44 AM
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| Attention, attention, here comes the party wrecker!  <nagging> Quote:
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