Mail Order Brides

[JimOfferman]

Has anybody else seen those "Asian Girls For Love & Marriage" ads pop up in the forum? What do you make of those? Does anybody here have 'hands-on' experience with such mail-order bride services?

I've always had mixed feelings about the whole idea. One the one hand it's the ultimate objectification of women, which I think is very bad, but then again some of these women might just end up in very happy marriages. Who are we to deny them that?

I do wonder about the terms, though. Is there a 30 day money back guarantee? Can you trade for another if yours turns out to be 'defective' in some way? And why the heck don't you ever hear about a Mail Order Groom service? More women are born then men, so such a service would make even more sense.

Such an intriguing phenomenon!

I would have to go with Russian, btw, Chinese are too small for my taste

[Honeywith4bees]

You're making me nervous Jim!


I once had a great idea for a business for myself. I'd be a hired out "friend", for those people that were lonely and friendless. I'd be paid by the hour and people could take me to the movies with them so they wouldn't have to go alone, I'd go to weddings and art gallery openings with my "friends", whatever people needed to add some companionship to their lives. Everyone I told about this idea however, said that everyone would assume I was an "Escort" service, if ya know what I mean, so, so much for that idea. I could never imagine being a hired out bride though . . .

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I am a pretty tall girl of Czech descent and I happen to be available . Will that do?

But seriously, I think that there is probably a very small percentage of women who end up with a loving marriage out of this. I would wager the vast majority of them are not. The reason is because I think the type of guy (typically) who would use a service like this wouldn't make the greatest husband. Can't get a girl, is fine with buying a woman and probably wants someone who will do whatever he says. That is quite stereotypical and judgemental of me for which I am sorry. But it's the first thought that comes to mind.

I am sure there are exceptions to this rule (if it even is a rule, it's not like I've polled guys who went the mail order bride route!).

In general I can't get behind anything where a person is a comodity to be bought and sold. With all of the progress we've made, women in the world (more in some parts than others) are second-class citizens. Violence and rape of women is still shrugged off or even accepted and made excuses for.

So, if a guy like you chose to go that route, I would say as long as the woman chose it out of free will then happy for you both. But in general I think it stinks.

(Sorry if I am coming across angry. Lingering break-up bad vibes.)

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

but then again some of these women might just end up in very happy marriages.

very happy marriages? With a guy who treated them like an object from the first day on? *cough*

You don't need that anyway, you've got enough groupies at your disposition.



edit: agreed, Aspiring. I think in general it stinks too. Completely misogynic. And it's not love, it's a deal. Bah!

[Honeywith4bees]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I am a pretty tall girl of Czech descent

HEY! Me too! How cool!

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I am a pretty tall girl of Czech descent and I happen to be available . Will that do?

Depends, are you willing to relocate?

Just for the record, I wouldn't seriously consider a mail order bride. Not ever. Not for me!

But seriously, I think that there is probably a very small percentage of women who end up with a loving marriage out of this.

Probably. Likely. Maybe.

Not so long ago, you wouldn't admit that you were internet dating, because people who did that had to be very desperate indeed! Normal people would never do that!

Nowadays it is almost a surprise if you tell people you've met your partner in a bar!

I don't like the whole people-as-commodity idea either, but for the guy who can't find a girl isn't it better to take a chance with this than to stay alone sulking? Can we really blame him for wanting to be happy with someone?

(Of course all of us PD-smarties would never do such a thing, because we all know happiness comes from within)

(Sorry if I am coming across angry. Lingering break-up bad vibes.)

No offense taken, as recent break-up-ee you have the right to feel angry. At least for a little while

[NotesMaeve]

Jim, my aunt is one of these women! She was a bride from a third world country, a former prostitute, and she's a great, educated, sweet, wonderful woman!

For my uncle, while they're not married now, they had a nice life together and really love each other. Now she owns a bar and he's retired.

I wouldn't do it, but who am I to judge?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Honeywith4bees

HEY! Me too! How cool!

It's the only part of my ancestry I claim . I am really only 1/4 Czech, but everyone tells me I look it. One of these days I will get around to posting my picture.

[JimOfferman]

NotesMaeve, you have the most interesting family! :P

And I completely agree!

[Angela]

I think the thing that might get in the way of a successful LLTMBR is that one partner starts off on significantly less powerful footing, and I think the best partnerships are more free-choice, more-or-less equal power.

The mail-order person would be constrained by the legal, immigration, language, cultural, and separation-from-family-and-security issues. And the mail-orderer, it seems to me, would be vulnerable to exploitation. Wouldn't it be better to go into an LLTMBR feeling free and powerful?

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

NotesMaeve, you have the most interesting family! :P

And I completely agree!

Heh. Well, I'm taking a break from the clan for awhile. They're a little too interesting these days! As I told my mother, "Y'all fight, work it out, and call me when the dust settles."

Originally Posted by Angela

I think the thing that might get in the way of a successful LLTMBR is that one partner starts off on significantly less powerful footing, and I think the best partnerships are more free-choice, more-or-less equal power.

The mail-order person would be constrained by the legal, immigration, language, cultural, and separation-from-family-and-security issues. And the mail-orderer, it seems to me, would be vulnerable to exploitation. Wouldn't it be better to go into an LLTMBR feeling free and powerful?

Agreed, in principle. Lovely Aunt S was a super-aware woman who wanted out of Thailand. Why? Not much of a future there for her and my cousin H.

When she met my uncle, sure, she was looking to get hitched. J's a nice dude. For her, it was a way out. For him, he got a smoking wife who is a lovely person. She's educated, funny, sweet, a helluva cook.

"Mail order bride" is kind of a misnomer. Most of the ones I've known are really smart and know they can bail after a year's marriage. Staying in a country like Thailand or Russia can be way worse than enduring your average crappy American marriage for a little while.

"Mail order brides" work for a dude that's respectful and just wants a marriage to someone who wants a traditional but good life. I welcome these women to take these guys, because I sure as hell am not interested in a traditional wifey role!

[Angela]

You're right about that, NotesMaeve! But it's a big crapshoot, on both sides. I guess you'd have to weight the risk-to-benefit, like anything else, huh?

[NotesMaeve]

Yep! But in reality, it's no bigger a crapshoot than marrying a dude you met in high school!

I think you have to ask yourself what you want in a relationship, of course. Unique passion and having two minds approach each other on equal intellectual and emotional ground is tres, tres important to me! But that's MY want. Not everyone wants a partner who can talk about literary criticism and can keep up with them at hiking, but those things are HUGE to me. Now, as I get older, likely having someone with boundless energy to hike with me will matter less as new things pop up and take time! But the intellectual pursuits shall always matter.

So for dating, it means figuring out:

What can I do by myself?

What is necessary for my partner to enjoy with me NOW?

What's necessary for long term?

What can I compromise on?

And that's my method of madness on dating!

[Angela]

gawd, NotesMaeve, if I was a lesbian, I'd be giving Slamhot a run for his money.

(except I think compromise is overrated. I'm a much bigger fan of the third, more desireable alternative.)

[Amanda Norris]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

It's the only part of my ancestry I claim . I am really only 1/4 Czech, but everyone tells me I look it. One of these days I will get around to posting my picture.

I'm also 1/4 Czech and fairly tall (for a girl - 5'8").

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by Angela

gawd, NotesMaeve, if I was a lesbian, I'd be giving Slamhot a run for his money.

(except I think compromise is overrated. I'm a much bigger fan of the third, more desireable alternative.)

Aw. <3

Damn us in our heterosexuality!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Amanda Norris

I'm also 1/4 Czech and fairly tall (for a girl - 5'8").

Learn something new every day! I'm probably about that tall...haven't measured in a while.

[ken nubo]

The mail order bride business goes like this:

- You order the bride
- The bride's poor family gets money
- Th bride gets a visa to USA/CANADA/Some "first world nation", makes money and sends the money back home.

It's a win-win situation in most cases.

[dancer]

Perhaps it is a comparison to arranged marriages in other cultures. We as individuals may not understand why someone would choose to enter into such a marriage, but I believe happy matches are possible. It is even possible that LOA plays a role in ordering a wife/husband or arranging a marriage. Why not?

[Vasilisa]

Hey, I am Russian ! I have a bunch of friends who met their husbands on the Internet and moved to U.S. But before that they were corresponding with each other for some time (from several months to several years), talking on the phone, then guys visited girls in Russia. And after they understood that was the person they wanted to be with, they started to work on visas to U.S.
You can't just "order the bride". The American Embassy would not allow it.
The girl has to have a proof that she is in love and it's not a scam in order to get in States.
Most of those couples I know are very happy, have kids and live together for years. Very few men treat their wives like objects, and they get dissapointed really fast, once girls find out about victims of abuse hotline.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Can't get a girl, is fine with buying a woman and probably wants someone who will do whatever he says.

With the whole "mail order brides" thing no one is being bought, just their contact info. Usually they talk for a while via mail, online, or sometimes over the phone if both people speak the same language (often a translator may be used for letters/emails). The guy may visit the woman in her home country, and if they get along he'll then end up spending thousands of dollars to help her emigrate to his home country, unless they plan on staying in her country.

Why do I know about this? I like researching most everything. The guys I've come across who were looking into this didn't seem bad, they were just weary of feminism and its effects on the nuclear family, which would be a whole other thread. Most were blue collar, meaning they'd had to deal with the nearly 50% divorce rate in the US (female college grads have a divorce rate closer to 20%).

Personally I don't think this would work for me, as I prefer to be involved with a woman who is articulate in a language I understand, highly educated, self supporting (or on her way to being so if still in college), with a frame of reference at least somewhat similar to my own, and comes from a fairly happy background. Luckily I'm already with such a girl, and I didn't have to travel thousands of miles or go online to find her (we met at the orientation session for a volunteer trip we ended up both going on).

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Vasilisa and openeyes, I stand corrected! I guess one shouldn't believe everything they see on Law and Order: SVU.

I always linked the mail order bride deal with human trafficking. I am sure there are instances where women are being bought and sold, either because they are desperate to get away from where they live or because they are forced into it, but I can see the distinction. Very interesting and something I will have to research more. Thanks for the info.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Vasilisa

The girl has to have a proof that she is in love and it's not a scam in order to get in States.

Vasilisa, how does a girl prove that she is in love? Does the man have to provide similar proof?