Why do some guys just never give up?!

[Rose of Cairo]

There is a guy who's been in love with me for six years now and although I made it very clear that he has absolutely no chance to end up as my bf, he doesn't move on. I don't understand that! He says he can't help loving me cause I'm the most wonderful woman in the world and keeps on adoring me, being so nice to me, and looking at me like I'm a goddess on Earth Last time I talked to him that was one year ago, I saw him by accident at university and ignored him. He ran after me and asked if we could greet each other again. I bluntly said "no.", turned my back to him and went away. And now, one year later, he wrote me a very nice email wishing me a happy new year. That's not the first time.

I know this exaggerated attachment has everything to do with some personal issues of him, and it's not my problem if he has a relationship or not, so this post is actually useless. I was just venting my astonishment. I find that just incredible!

[The Flannel Guy]

My first thought is, restraining order.

It may seem a little harsh now, but it may be what keeps you alive. Also it might kick him in the pants an scare him away from doing this to you and other women. Also if the courts get involved they would probably require him to see a therapist or at the minimum go for mental health evaluation.

Another thought is that you might not be the only woman he is following. If I were you I'd be dealing with this immediately, at least see a lawyer. Also make sure others, like friends and family, know what is going on.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by The Flannel Guy

My first thought is, restraining order.

What the....? He seems to be harmless. Rose said "no", and he walks away and leaves her alone. Then he waits a year before emailing her. He seems respectful of her wishes, but that doesn't stop his feelings for her.

[Angela]

Rose, are you putting on the stinky sneakers? This is just a reminder that you can choose something else, if you want to.

[Fullcrum]

If you start talking to guys you do like, the chodes will disappear. You're probably validated that he's talking to you, but still don't "want" it. Hence conflicting intentions. You attracted this dude into your life.

No offense to them, you'll probably speed up their "realization" that what they're doing is pretty f****** pointless and that they should change their approach and drop their insecurities.

So go ahead, forget about this guy, and talk to guys you do like.

[Rose of Cairo]

Flannel Guy: it's only me, that's well-known amongst his friends and family (which I know a bit). I don't think he's dangerous and I'm not in the slightest afraid of him. Going to a lawyer because of one email in one year would seem quite paranoiac to me. He's not stalking me.

Angela: thanks for the reminder I don't feel bad about it. It's just that when I get an email after one year of silence after having been so rude (or when I meet him by accident on the street after half a year and he still looks at me like he's seeing some marvelous fata morgana, I just think "Incredible! How long will he need to give up??!!!"

Fullcrum: I haven't thought about that guy in one year. And I do talk to guys I like, believe me

Dunno if this means something in my life. It's really not a big thing. I'm just baffled right now cause I just got his email.

[Angela]

Isn't it possible that he sees you for who you really are: a goddess on earth, and you just haven't caught up with his brilliant perception, cuz you're stubborn?

Why are you so adamant that you not greet each other? That seems a little extreme to me, unless he's threatened to take away your children or something. Has he threatened to take away your children or something? If not, what's the refusal to allow greeting all about? Are you afraid that if you start saying hello, happy new year to each other, the next thing you know you'll be trapped in a loveless marriage? It's a slippery slope, this hello business.

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by Angela

Isn't it possible that he sees you for who you really are: a goddess on earth, and you just haven't caught up with his brilliant perception, cuz you're stubborn?

Why are you so adamant that you not greet each other? That seems a little extreme to me, unless he's threatened to take away your children or something. Has he threatened to take away your children or something? If not, what's the refusal to allow greeting all about? Are you afraid that if you start saying hello, happy new year to each other, the next thing you know you'll be trapped in a loveless marriage? It's a slippery slope, this hello business.

You make fun, but did I tell you I didn't want to hug Slamhot Boy the first time we hung out because he was just so freaking hot I knew I wouldn't let him go if we hugged? He insisted I hug him at the end of it. Now, getting married!!! And it started with me shaking his hand and saying hello.

And now I want his babies. Oh, I learned my lesson on the hello thing. When we meet, I'm not saying hello. No offense; I'm just not cut out for polyamory. I know you understand. Middle of the conversation is fine, BUT NO GREETING! I'm a one person gal.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Angela

Isn't it possible that he sees you for who you really are: a goddess on earth, and you just haven't caught up with his brilliant perception, cuz you're stubborn?

lol Of course I am a fabulous goddess on earth and all men should realize that already But fact is that I was clear about my no, so why doesn't he look for another goddess on earth? There are enough of them out there.

Originally Posted by Angela

Why are you so adamant that you not greet each other? That seems a little extreme to me, unless he's threatened to take away your children or something. Has he threatened to take away your children or something? If not, what's the refusal to allow greeting all about? Are you afraid that if you start saying hello, happy new year to each other, the next thing you know you'll be trapped in a loveless marriage? It's a slippery slope, this hello business.

There is absolutely zero risk that I could end up in a marriage (or relationship) with him. I'm definitely not interested and nothing can change that.

But yes, it's a slippery slope: when I answered his greetings in the past, he came closer. He kept on writing, or when I saw him (at university, or in the city, it's a small town here, you always see people you know, and we studied the same and we have common friends) he just came too close while talking to me, and managed to sit down near me all the time, or started touching me. I'm usually very comfortable with physical contact, I even have a lot of physical contact with people I like (when they let me), but his way of touching me is just unpleasant. He did not perceive my defensive body language either, so I always had to tell him "Please do not touch me" and "Please don't come that close" or "no you don't need to help me with my coat". He was very understanding and said sorry and stopped doing it. But a few weeks later, he would do it again, like I'm a magnet. I got really fed up with having him glued to me so I decided that if he's not able to control himself, I'd better have no contact with him at all till he moved on.

Which he doesn't do!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I decided that if he's not able to control himself, I'd better have no contact with him at all till he moved on.

Does he know that? Or was it a decision you made and kept to yourself? I know you told him to stay away, but did you tell him it's because he's not honoring your request to respect your boundaries? Or did you just stew. In other words, was it a quality No, or a chintzy one?

[Rose of Cairo]

Hmmm... Yes he knows that, I was so fed up, I really clearly told him all that. After that I consequently ignored him. I think I've been clear enough. But I felt trapped at that time, so maybe I didn't convey the message correctly. Should I do it again?



edit: if I answer this email, even to express some no, I'm afraid he could see that as an encouragement to continue. In the past every attention I gave him pleased him, even if it was negative.

[Angela]

Sounds like classic stalker mentality -- any contact is just seen as engagement. Can you take on being harmony (or whatever else you've invented for yourself) and ask yourself that same question: Shall I convey a quality No, or would it be safer and wiser for me not to kick up any of his love dust?

(I imagine it probably feels like this is a mountain made out of a molehill, but you can look at it as practice for the next time you are being 'I am trapped'.)

[Rose of Cairo]

No, it doesn't feel like this is a mountain made out of a molehill at all. That's exactly the kind of details that will show if I'm able to translate Rose II into reality or not. I do feel that it's very important. Didn't realize that when I started the thread.

When focusing on "I'm harmony" I feel much more peaceful about it and would like to express a quality NO. Still don't know how to do it though. If I tell him that I don't wish any contact because he's not able to respect my boundaries, he's going to say "that's the past! I will respect them from now on" (that's what he said in the past too). If I tell him that I don't wish any contact with him without any explanation, he'll ask why. If I just write happy new year, he'll feel encouraged as well. I'm just reluctant to reply to an email signed with "your X". Alone that would be some kind of acceptance.

hmmm

[Brutha]

People sent out New Year mails to lots of people. I have sent a bunch of people a new year email.
Quite a few of those are people that I haven't seen in the last half year.
Most of those mails don't get answered.

Maybe you are made simply one of the people in his address book and got therefore his new year mail?

[Rose of Cairo]

It wasn't a collective email with a standard text, it was a customized email for me with my first name in the subject and body. It's not like I'm just an acquaintance he hasn't seen for a year either.

Imagine some girl tells you that you are disrespectful and annoy her and that she doesn't want to have anything to do with you anymore, then she ignores you. You ask her to greet you again and she responds with a rude no. One year later, would you send her a personalized email wishing her "allerherzlichste Wünsche" (most affectionate wishes) signed "your Brutha"?

Seriously, that's a bit insane.

[Angela]

Well, he may be a crazed homicidal narcissistic stalker, but he has good taste in women.

[The Flannel Guy]

Just figured that it couldn't hurt to say something at times goes unsaid. Too many women go on and on with someone and nobody says anything.

I'd rather err on the side of caution when commenting on something like this.

[PatriceA]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

There is a guy who's been in love with me for six years now ...

I have really BAD news for you.

I know a guy who stalked a "friend" of his for 9 years like that... I mean... NINE years !
That's 3287 days of his life he spent thinking about his hopeless love for that woman (which is about three thousand times what i'm currently capable of by the way )

Now here's the BAD news.

He DID get the girl !

That means, 3 years from now, you could very well be married to that guy you're writing about.

I can imagine the shivers in your back right now, but that's a true story.

[SuperStar]

Every guy has this image in his head of the "perfect" woman for him. Even the ones that are "players" act that way because they believe that that perfect woman does not exist. The problem this guy has is that he saw some things he liked about you, and he added in his own distorted perceptions and imagination (just like those optical illusions where you see lines that aren't really there, to complete the shape your brain wants to see) and you became his symbol of the perfect woman. To him you are literally the only woman for him - in his brain his image of you merged with his image of his fantasy perfect future.

Unfortunately I think it is impossible for you to be the one that breaks that connection and informs him that you're actually not his perfect woman.

And also, I think that in a case like this, being "rude" and and aggressive towards him *if* he does disrespect your boundaries is actually a loving act, what he needs most... if you were to hurl the worst insult you could think of at him, it might shake him up and make him realize, "hey, my perfect woman would not say that of me."

It's also possible that he has mommy issues and when you tell him "no, don't do that" it actually makes him feel good in a twisted, wish-I-was-still-a-baby-submitting-to-my-mommy sort of way.

[JimOfferman]

re: Why do some guys just never give up?

The answer to that is simple, Rose: you're a beautiful person inside and out. I can totally understand how someone could fall for that and never get up again.

Although he should know, of course, that some things are unattainable!

[Michael Chui]

People nowadays have largely been trained to keep banging their head on the same rock even if it doesn't produce any water. They're taught that, if they keep banging their head, hey, it could happen.

No, no advice. Just remarking.

[Mags]

Ah Rose, I know how you feel... I experienced something similar when I was a student (about 13 years ago now, eek!). I was happy to be his friend at first, but then it became clear that he had feelings for me (which I didn't want to reciprocate). He started getting very clingy and the slightest bit of attention from me (eg saying hello when we passed each other at university, after I'd been ignoring him for months!) would be interpreted by him as an invitation to get close. On the surface, he would say all the right things to make me think he would respect boundaries, but his behaviour was very different. At no point was I scared, it definitely wasn't serious stuff, but just perplexing and annoying... eg, when I first got to know him, he asked if he could phone me in the evenings, and he asked me what time our family had supper so that he didn't disturb us, BUT then he'd phone every night at supper time! He'd ask me what I was doing and I'd say "having supper!", to which he'd reply "Oh, sorry, well I won't keep you long then..." . A small thing in the grand scheme of things, but after this happened regularly that I knew it wasn't just a once off mistake, I began to wonder if I'd really want a friend, let alone a boyfriend (like he wanted to be), who didn't seem to listen to me or respect even the small things. Eventually, things came to a head when he wanted to take me out for coffee after a week of late night studying and multiple tests (mine, not his - he was doing a different course). I was exhausted and told him "any night but tonight - I'm really tired and want to go to sleep", but he was so insistent that I eventually agreed, just so that I could "break up" with him. I was very rude, but luckily for me, he seemed to finally understand the rudeness and he left me alone after that. I had been very polite before (firm, but polite), and yet he never got the message.

It was only much later that I was able to really reflect on what had happened and the part that I had played in allowing the situation to get to that point. I thought I was setting boundaries, but I was actually quite wishy-washy back then. I've since learned how to be assertive now without sacrificing my gentleness and ending up being rude.

So, Rose, knowing what we do now... for some reason, you've created this situation in your life... what is it reflecting for you?!

[Zane]

i'm not sure, but maybe, because when he was first time in love with you, you were some kind of...his first love, i think. And since then, you've been the best girl in his mind, taking his time thinking about girls. And, he still wants you, because he never gets u! i think maybe he's a good guy when being in love with you for 6 years (and he probably a normal guy without mental problems), long time like that usually gets women down! SMART and ROMANTIC guy!

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by PatriceA

That means, 3 years from now, you could very well be married to that guy you're writing about.

NO WAY

Originally Posted by SuperStar

And also, I think that in a case like this, being "rude" and and aggressive towards him *if* he does disrespect your boundaries is actually a loving act, what he needs most... if you were to hurl the worst insult you could think of at him, it might shake him up and make him realize, "hey, my perfect woman would not say that of me."

I already tried that! It didn't work. I've never been so hard, rude, harsh and blunt to any other person in my life. I told him the most crude things about why I don't want him and what I think about him. With time I really got allergic to him. He couldn't show up without me getting aggressive towards him. But the more I got angry, the more he got soft, sighing and caressing. I think he was even pleased about it because this way at least I paid attention to him.

There is just nothing that can scare him away. He met me depressed, fat and sick and found me wonderful. He finds me terribly sexy even when I'm unshaved and hairy like a yeti, when I'm dirty and stinking, when I'm wearing oversized sweatpants and having pimples on my face. He loves me when I have a nervous breakdown and am crying like a whimp. I'm afraid there is just no way I can turn him off.

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

The answer to that is simple, Rose: you're a beautiful person inside and out. I can totally understand how someone could fall for that and never get up again.

Thank you for the compliment Jim. But there are many beautiful women in the world, there is really no need to obsess over me.

Originally Posted by Mags

So, Rose, knowing what we do now... for some reason, you've created this situation in your life... what is it reflecting for you?!

Dunno

In the past years I had a problem with feeling trapped in some situations. I'm currently working on that and Angela coached me most efficiently. I used to feel trapped with him because I felt very helpless. He would just not listen to my body language, he would not listen to my verbal no, he wasn't very impressed by my being aggressive, so I really didn't know what to do anymore.

When feeling trapped, I tend to react in strange ways. So I can very well imagine that my no was not a confident, high-quality no. It was more like the barking of a cornered dog I guess. It doesn't help that our story began as an affair. It doesn't help either that I really did like him very much. He's a highly intelligent, funny, charming and very interesting personality and I couldn't help smiling all over my face when seeing him (at the beginning, later I looked rather pissed off when seeing him). But still, my no was very clear I think and any normal guy would accept it.

He also says that in fact I do love him and our relationship is wonderful, and that I just don't know that yet. No matter how clearly I tell him "No I do not love you and no I don't want to see you and there is just no relationship at all between us", this doesn't penetrate his skull. He told his friends and family about very complicated psychological problems I allegedly have to explain why I'm living in denial and am just afraid to have a relationship with him This is a bit like a nightmare, I've never felt so misunderstood in my life. He interprets just everything I say or do in a way that supports his theory.

Originally Posted by Zane

i'm not sure, but maybe, because when he was first time in love with you, you were some kind of...his first love, i think. And since then, you've been the best girl in his mind, taking his time thinking about girls. And, he still wants you, because he never gets u! i think maybe he's a good guy when being in love with you for 6 years (and he probably a normal guy without mental problems), long time like that usually gets women down! SMART and ROMANTIC guy!

I'm not his first love, he dumped his long-time girlfriend because of me. But I don't find his behavior smart in any way. Anyway, he can love me for thirty years I would still not want him

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

There is a guy who's been in love with me for six years now and although I made it very clear that he has absolutely no chance to end up as my bf, he doesn't move on. I don't understand that! He says he can't help loving me cause I'm the most wonderful woman in the world and keeps on adoring me, being so nice to me, and looking at me like I'm a goddess on Earth Last time I talked to him that was one year ago, I saw him by accident at university and ignored him. He ran after me and asked if we could greet each other again. I bluntly said "no.", turned my back to him and went away. And now, one year later, he wrote me a very nice email wishing me a happy new year. That's not the first time.

I know this exaggerated attachment has everything to do with some personal issues of him, and it's not my problem if he has a relationship or not, so this post is actually useless. I was just venting my astonishment. I find that just incredible!

I think he has a typical "nice guy syndrom" behaviour (I mean, too much nice). Many men are like that, he is not the only one.

It's because, we men are pretty logical. We imagine that if we worship a girl and put her on a pedestal and make big love declarations, then she will love us in return.
It's like : "I'm nice, I'm soooo nice, so she should fall in love with me. With me she should feel like a godess, so she should love me because I am the only one who worship her so much".

Actually, it doesn't happen this way at all. For love a relationship, having someone who worships you is a big big turn off.
-First because when he worships you, it is because he his uncousciously trying to buy your love. He doesn't realise it but it is a kind of attempt to manipulate you. So it is not honest (but he certainly doesn't realise it so don't blame him too much)
-Then, a relationship is between two people. Not between a god and a people. He should add value to his relationships not try to get "god love and worshipping his partner".

He has to understand how relationships and attraction between a woman and a man works, that's it. He is just looking at it through his nice guy syndrome lenses. I'm pretty shure that when he understands how it works, he will stop to see you as a godess and start to pursue a relationship with a girl that makes him feel great.

It is not about you at all. He has things to learn. There is a book about it (I haven't read it but I'm sure this is the kind of advices he needs).
no more Mr nice guy

[Tigerlilly]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

There is just nothing that can scare him away. He met me depressed, fat and sick and found me wonderful. He finds me terribly sexy even when I'm unshaved and hairy like a yeti, when I'm dirty and stinking, when I'm wearing oversized sweatpants and having pimples on my face. He loves me when I have a nervous breakdown and am crying like a whimp. I'm afraid there is just no way I can turn him off.

Sounds like true love and a good reason to marry the fellow.

Just kidding, but it is interesting that the description in a romantic movie would be called unconditional love, and the only thing it does is in real life is send you running.

I faced pretty much the same problem, but unlike you and this guy we started out as college buddies and never were anything else for years but friends. Just thinking about what went on back then makes me furious once more, at times it felt like talking to Mr. Collins from the Austen novel.

The main point I want to make here though is that you just like me manifested this guy into your life. Being depressed and asking for a guy that worships the ground beneath your hairy feet even sounds like a good strategy and there he is knocking on your door like Mr.MaryPoppins.

My advice is to look to yourself. I believe, he's popped up again in your life cause you have fallen back into an old state and have attracted him back into your life. Actually I'm dealing with just the same issue right now.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I bluntly said "no."

Having some trouble saying YES to your "no"? Looks like it.

[DayInTheLife]

Why do some guys just never give up?!

Probably because someone told him that perseverance is the way to get the girl.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Tigerlilly

... it felt like talking to Mr. Collins from the Austen novel.

Tigerlilly, I am just plum crazy about you.

Rose, have you read Pride and Prejudice? Elizabeth is YOU! (which is good news, because have you seen Mr. Darcy? Ai chihuahua!)

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Tigerlilly

it is interesting that the description in a romantic movie would be called unconditional love, and the only thing it does is in real life is send you running.

Hey wait a second! This is not the reason why I'm running! I would find it wonderful to have a guy who loves me sick, fat, crying, with pimples, stinking and looking like a yeti too Just not this one.

Originally Posted by Tigerlilly

The main point I want to make here though is that you just like me manifested this guy into your life. Being depressed and asking for a guy that worships the ground beneath your hairy feet even sounds like a good strategy and there he is knocking on your door like Mr.MaryPoppins.

I totally agree. But that was six years ago. So many things changed in those six years. I'm not depressed anymore now, so I have no need for a worshipper.

Originally Posted by Dharma

Having some trouble saying YES to your "no"? Looks like it.

Hmmm.... could be. I'm going to think about it. I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. I really do not want him. But there's a difference between saying "YES! I do NOT want! Period." and saying "ugghhh... I really don't want... I feel so forced to deal with him though... why doesn't he understand... aarhhhh..."

OK, now I see what I have to do! Thanks Dharma

I just sat down and concentrated on "I'm harmony" for a while. Then I just felt that this thing couldn't bother me anymore. I focused on YES, I don't want, and wrote back hello, thanks for the wishes and a happy new year to you too. That's all.