Pregnant & Confused!!!

[laur_454]

Hello! I found out two days ago that I'm pregnant. I'm 23 and unmarried. My boyfriend is 29 and we do not live together. We've been together almost 6 months. We both have full time day jobs which are decent paying. I think our families would help and definitely be supportive. I was not expecting to get pregnant and my initial reaction was fear and shock and automatically assuming that there was no way I would keep the baby. As the day progressed though, my boyfriend was extremely supportive and said he'd be with me no matter what. I started to feel more emotional and more accepting of the situation and even worried about the baby. I researched pregnancy and fetal development and now I'm feeling like I can't imagine give it up. I read Erin's blog entry about the karmic repercussions of abortion and it really resonated with me. However, I'm finding it very frightening that I'm going to have to give up my freedom and devote my life to someone else. I don't want to be selfish, and I take full responsibility. I'm a liberal person and I'm pro-choice, but I'm not sure how I feel about having an abortion myself. Has anyone experienced this before? Thanks.

[Angela]

Hey, Laur, I'm very pro-choice, too, and I feel that if there is a small part of you that wants to have this baby now, a large part of you will regret it later if you don't.

That's not to say it should make the decision for you; regret might just be a price you're able and willing to pay. But unless you're absolutely sure you don't want it, I would give yourself more time to mull it over. You'll probably get an onslaught of very strong opinions here and in the real world, and my very deepest wishes are with you in being true to our own heart in the face of any outside pressure.

Best wishes, Laur.

Love,
Angela

[Honeywith4bees]

Hi Laur ~

I just wanted to say that I kind of know where you are coming from. When I was 21 and still in school full time, I found out that I was pregnant. I was also unmarried and not in a real good position to have the child. I'm a very strong supporter of a woman's right to choose. Personally, I chose to leave school and have the baby, a decision I have never, ever once regretted. I can only speculate that I probably wouldn't feel the same way if I had chosen an abortion. I don't however, agree that there are karmic repercussions to abortion. To me, that sounds to much like the old Catholic Church talk of sinners will be punished type stuff. I hope that whatever decision you end up making, you make it because it is what you truly want to do, not because you feel forced into it. Good luck!

[carenkh]

I sure have. I was 27 when I found myself in much the same situation, except I was only friends with the father, we weren't in an exclusive relationship. I spent a lot of time in prayer and meditation - I really didn't think I could be a good Mom, because of my own childhood experiences. I got my answer one morning when I looked in the mirror and heard "Mom", and got such a rush of love and acceptance.

I was also pregnant at 15, and while I didn't approach it with as much inner knowing (I didn't even know how to do that), I had an abortion, and I have no doubt that was the right decision for me at that time in my life. I have also helped a friend with her decision to abort a pregnancy - she was 33, and approached the decision with much prayer and looking inward.

I disagree with some of Erin's assertions about abortion, it sounds a little too much like a judgmental, punishing God disguised as karma - but I guess this isn't the place to discuss that.

I will say I have been forced to mature and take responsibility since having my son. (Forced because I wanted to be a better mother) And that definitely didn't happen overnight. I am a really, really good Mom, but getting there has required much work, looking within and healing. I practiced Attachment Parenting, which definitely facilitated that healing.

I was also assured by many people that they would be there for me if I had the baby, but the downright truth is, it comes down to me and me alone. While his Dad has been very supportive in his own ways - he always spends lots of time with our son, and has paid child support until he went through a bad patch and I had to threaten legal action - there were plenty of times I needed someone else to be there, and no one was. It's a fact of single motherhood, unless you live in an intentional community. Even then - in the middle of the night, it's you and the baby.

I love my life, and I'm in a place I definitely wouldn't have been if I hadn't had kids. The good times are better than anything I experienced before kids. Since I learned about Consensual Living and Radical Unschooling, the bad times have mostly dissipated - but before that, the bad times were really, really bad. I definitely needed help, and supportive friends around me, folks who understood where I was coming from. La Leche League gave me that connection when my son was little.

So - having my son, being a single mom, did mean I had to "give up my life", but I received a different, richer, deeper life in return.

Before I got to that place, I used to wonder if my son would have been better off if I had given him up for adoption - I had so much healing to do. Adoption is an option, as well. (Have you seen Juno? What a GREAT movie)

I believe you'll know the right thing to do in time. I also believe whichever way you choose is the right way.

[Erin Pavlina]

alright just for the record, if you read my abortion blog entry you'll see that I'm talking about women who screw around knowing they will get pregnant and deciding in advance that they'll just abort any kid that develops rather than take some responsibility and try to use some birth control.

Continue...

[laur_454]

Erin,

I wasn't raped, and I'm not a teenager. And I know that this could have been avoided. I don't really think I was "screwing around," but apparently I wasn't as careful as I should have been. However, I never intended to use an abortion as my method of contraception. So what is your opinion about a woman who has an accident like I did? This is why I'm feeling so guilty. I'm just having a hard time accepting that I could have a baby in nine months. It's very scary. However, yesterday I did experience a surge of excitement thinking about it. Thanks to everyone for the insight, its helping!!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Hi, laur. I can't say I've been in your position, but I just wanted to be another voice of encouragement. If you just found out I would wager it's still pretty early in your pregnancy, so you have a little time to make a decision. Take that time and give yourself some space to figure it out. I'm pro-choice, but I know that for myself I couldn't have an abortion in any but possibly the most dire circumstances. However, I still don't feel like there is one right decision here for you. Look at all the options and do what feels right to you. It's great that your boyfriend is supportive, but when thinking about what to do I would advise not basing your decision on his perceived support. If you knew you might have to go it alone sometime in the future would that change things? I hope I'm not making it more difficult! I just think this is a good thing to look at.

Even when you plan to have a kid, I imagine it can be a scary thing. Give yourself time to let everything sink in and follow your intuition. We're here if you need people to talk to. Best wishes with whatever you decide to do.

[Erin Pavlina]

Originally Posted by laur_454

Erin,

I wasn't raped, and I'm not a teenager. And I know that this could have been avoided. I don't really think I was "screwing around," but apparently I wasn't as careful as I should have been. However, I never intended to use an abortion as my method of contraception. So what is your opinion about a woman who has an accident like I did? This is why I'm feeling so guilty. I'm just having a hard time accepting that I could have a baby in nine months. It's very scary. However, yesterday I did experience a surge of excitement thinking about it. Thanks to everyone for the insight, its helping!!

No, you're misunderstanding me. I'll just be blunt. I'm talking about the heroin prostitutes who will screw a guy to make a buck to support their habit and when they get pregnant they just get an abortion without giving it a second thought. You are obviously NOT in the same group here.

You said it yourself, it was not your intention to get pregnant and you weren't using abortion as birth control. There is no judgement against you.

[Dan.Linehan]

Check out Juno. I'd recommend seeing it even if you weren't pregnant, but definitely given your situation.

My two cents, if you'll love the kid, give him/her a chance.

[harrem]

For me, you should keep the baby and don't ever think of abortion. You should just accept the idea that you are having a baby and it is not his/her fault. I think it really is hard especially if you are not ready yet but what can you do now right? Just look into the bright side of things.

[Dannyboy1]

I don't believe anyone who has not had a child themselves has any right to offer you advice. I was pro choice until I had my child and now I thank God every day we never seriously considered abortion even though we had only been dating a year. It's easy to be pro choice when you haven't met your child yet, but make no mistake, you are stopping a life. This baby will never be born again. You will find a way if you have this baby. If you don't want the baby, there are many people who can't have children who will love you forever for having it. You created this being, you owe it to them to at least give them nine months of your life to give them a chance.

To anyone who's never had a child, I ask you to consider the fact that you do not have the experience to make this decision for someone else. Think about times when an experience transformed you into a totally opposite way of thinking. So much so, that when you try and change your friends minds, they cannot and even refuse to believe you. You've become enlightened in a way that they cannot possibly understand until they go through it. I cannot possibly explain the experience of having a child to you, but I can ask you to realize that if you did have the experience of having a child, you would definitely not take this decision as lightly as you are right now. I have never met a person who would ever consider having an abortion once they've had a child.

One more thing. When we found out we were having a baby, I was expressing my nervousness to an aquaintence I had know for a couple of years. I told him we were broke and I had no work and I wasn't sure I was ready, but we were going to have the baby anyway. He looked into my eyes with tears in his and he said, "We have been trying to have a child for years and we can't seem to make it happen. Please, give him to us. If you don't feel you can take care of him, give him to us." he then turned and walked away crying.

Originally Posted by laur_454

Hello! I found out two days ago that I'm pregnant. I'm 23 and unmarried. My boyfriend is 29 and we do not live together. We've been together almost 6 months. We both have full time day jobs which are decent paying. I think our families would help and definitely be supportive. I was not expecting to get pregnant and my initial reaction was fear and shock and automatically assuming that there was no way I would keep the baby. As the day progressed though, my boyfriend was extremely supportive and said he'd be with me no matter what. I started to feel more emotional and more accepting of the situation and even worried about the baby. I researched pregnancy and fetal development and now I'm feeling like I can't imagine give it up. I read Erin's blog entry about the karmic repercussions of abortion and it really resonated with me. However, I'm finding it very frightening that I'm going to have to give up my freedom and devote my life to someone else. I don't want to be selfish, and I take full responsibility. I'm a liberal person and I'm pro-choice, but I'm not sure how I feel about having an abortion myself. Has anyone experienced this before? Thanks.

[Angela]

Make that four timed. Dannyboy, once is your opinion. Twice is emphasis. Four times is rhetoric. Enough, already.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

It's easy to be pro choice when you haven't met your child yet

Of course. Just like it's easy to be pro-life when you're not a woman.

This baby will never be born again.

This is your belief. Beliefs are a choice everyone of us can make freely. For example some people believe this soul will just wait for the next opportunity to incarnate.

To anyone who's never had a child, I ask you to consider the fact that you do not have the experience to make this decision for someone else.

Nobody's making a decision for someone else.

I have never met a person who would ever consider having an abortion once they've had a child.

I know someone who had two children and then an abortion.

[Dannyboy1]

Have you actually given birth? Because, being a woman doesn't make you an authority on child birth. If you haven't had children then I know a hell of a lot more than you. I stood by my wife and waited on her hand and foot for nine months and I was there in the delivery room catching my baby and cutting the chord. My wife is also studying to be a mid-wife so I know much more about the whole process and experiences of others than you do. The sex card doesn't work in this case. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Of course. Just like it's easy to be pro-life when you're not a woman.



This is your belief. Beliefs are a choice everyone of us can make freely. For example some people believe this soul will just wait for the next opportunity to incarnate.



Nobody's making a decision for someone else.


I know someone who had two children and then an abortion.

[Erki]

To be fair, Rose of Cairo wasn't talkng about knowledge about birth or pregnancy. Her point was simply that as a man you just don't have to go through pregnancy and childbirth. A man can jump the ship and leave, the woman has nowhere to go.

[Dannyboy1]

That's not what it sounded like. I believe the man should be responsible as well. But, if they're not, that doesn't give the woman the right to throw responsibility out the door. It's not fair that she has to go through it alone, but that baby deserves a chance.

Originally Posted by Erki

To be fair, Rose of Cairo wasn't talkng about knowledge about birth or pregnancy. Her point was simply that as a man you just don't have to go through pregnancy and childbirth. A man can jump the ship and leave, the woman has nowhere to go.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

That's not what it sounded like. I believe the man should be responsible as well. But, if they're not, that doesn't give the woman the right to throw responsibility out the door. It's not fair that she has to go through it alone, but that baby deserves a chance.

How convinient...no matter what the ultimate and undeniable responsibilty lies with the female. If you are going to say that both should be responsible then take it all the way...prosecute male or female who decides not to go through with it.

A lot of the things you are saying are very easy to say from the postition of being a man in a patriarchal society.

ETA: Also, sorry, but no matter how many children you and your wife have, you will never know what it is like to carry a baby or labor with and deliver one. I am not dismissing your role of caretaker for your wife during her pregnancy. Good for you. But don't act like it's anywhere near the same as her role.

[Dannyboy1]

Let's stick to what I said. Number one. I said the responsibility lies with both, but you make the best of what happens. I hate the fact that a guy can just walk away. I think it's horrible. Any guy who does that is a coward and I wish they could be put in jail just as if they had abandoned them in the woods. I would absolutely support that and I think it's a major fault in our judicial system. Secondly, I never said I knew what it was like to have a baby in my stomach. I was pointing out to a woman that she had not ever been pregnant, while I had done as much of the experience a man can have and, although I will never know what giving birth feels like, I know much more than she does. She knows what it's like to be a woman, but she knows nothing about childbirth. I have more empathy for what women go to than most men because I my wife is studying to be a midwife and has educated me for the last two and a half years since before our child was born about childbirth. If you want to know what's patriarchal about this society, it's that men were the first doctors and decided they know better how to give birth than women. They literally tried to create the misconception that midwives are uneducated witch doctors and that it was dangerous to have natural childbirth. Did you know the US has a worse infant mortality rate than nearly every modern nation in the world? And it's all because they want to get the women in and out so they can fill more beds and make more money. Rather than wait and letting the birth take the natural amount of time, they tell the woman it's taking too long and they need to induce, which increases the pain, thus increasing the need for an epidural and possibly a c-section. These "doctors" are creating a chain reaction which ultimately increases the danger to both the mother and baby. Just to get them in and out. Did you know that c-sections are at an all time high? The increase in recent years is staggering. Did you know that the most c-sections occur between the hours of 4 and 5 o'clock when doctors want to go home and 10-11 o'clock when the shift changes and they want to go home? Did you know they have no right or real need to take your baby away right after they're born to clean them up, that it's better for bonding that the baby stay with the mother and begin nursing? But most of the time they take the baby away from the mother within the first half hour (sometimes immediately) and when the mother asks why, they say they have to? We don't and we never will, yet most women just go to the doctor and trust whatever they say and forget birth is a natural thing. It's not like getting your tonsils out. I know all this because I care. Believe it or not, not all men are jerks. I take responsibility and learn everything I can to be as much of a help as possible. I'm writing this now because I believe people need to wake up and educate themselves and not run out and get an abortion without fully comprehending the enormity of the decision. I've seen people jump on this site and just toss out advice based on all the propaganda they've been fed and some of them have never read a book, or attended a class, or even had a good friend who went through a pregnancy. All they've done is read people magazine and they think they can give a young girl advice. It's irresponsible.

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

How convinient...no matter what the ultimate and undeniable responsibilty lies with the female. If you are going to say that both should be responsible then take it all the way...prosecute male or female who decides not to go through with it.

A lot of the things you are saying are very easy to say from the postition of being a man in a patriarchal society.

ETA: Also, sorry, but no matter how many children you and your wife have, you will never know what it is like to carry a baby or labor with and deliver one. I am not dismissing your role of caretaker for your wife during her pregnancy. Good for you. But don't act like it's anywhere near the same as her role.

[Michael45]

Thank you and Amen..................

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

Let's stick to what I said. Number one. I said the responsibility lies with both, but you make the best of what happens. I hate the fact that a guy can just walk away. I think it's horrible. Any guy who does that is a coward and I wish they could be put in jail just as if they had abandoned them in the woods. I would absolutely support that and I think it's a major fault in our judicial system. Secondly, I never said I knew what it was like to have a baby in my stomach. I was pointing out to a woman that she had not ever been pregnant, while I had done as much of the experience a man can have and, although I will never know what giving birth feels like, I know much more than she does. She knows what it's like to be a woman, but she knows nothing about childbirth. I have more empathy for what women go to than most men because I my wife is studying to be a midwife and has educated me for the last two and a half years since before our child was born about childbirth. If you want to know what's patriarchal about this society, it's that men were the first doctors and decided they know better how to give birth than women. They literally tried to create the misconception that midwives are uneducated witch doctors and that it was dangerous to have natural childbirth. Did you know the US has a worse infant mortality rate than nearly every modern nation in the world? And it's all because they want to get the women in and out so they can fill more beds and make more money. Rather than wait and letting the birth take the natural amount of time, they tell the woman it's taking too long and they need to induce, which increases the pain, thus increasing the need for an epidural and possibly a c-section. These "doctors" are creating a chain reaction which ultimately increases the danger to both the mother and baby. Just to get them in and out. Did you know that c-sections are at an all time high? The increase in recent years is staggering. Did you know that the most c-sections occur between the hours of 4 and 5 o'clock when doctors want to go home and 10-11 o'clock when the shift changes and they want to go home? Did you know they have no right or real need to take your baby away right after they're born to clean them up, that it's better for bonding that the baby stay with the mother and begin nursing? But most of the time they take the baby away from the mother within the first half hour (sometimes immediately) and when the mother asks why, they say they have to? We don't and we never will, yet most women just go to the doctor and trust whatever they say and forget birth is a natural thing. It's not like getting your tonsils out. I know all this because I care. Believe it or not, not all men are jerks. I take responsibility and learn everything I can to be as much of a help as possible. I'm writing this now because I believe people need to wake up and educate themselves and not run out and get an abortion without fully comprehending the enormity of the decision. I've seen people jump on this site and just toss out advice based on all the propaganda they've been fed and some of them have never read a book, or attended a class, or even had a good friend who went through a pregnancy. All they've done is read people magazine and they think they can give a young girl advice. It's irresponsible.

[mncz]

Heya, laur_454, you might want to check my thread in this forum: Abortion or not? . It describes my feelings and how I made the decision about my unexpected baby. It might give you some help.

[Erki]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

How convinient...no matter what the ultimate and undeniable responsibilty lies with the female. If you are going to say that both should be responsible then take it all the way...prosecute male or female who decides not to go through with it.

A lot of the things you are saying are very easy to say from the postition of being a man in a patriarchal society.

ETA: Also, sorry, but no matter how many children you and your wife have, you will never know what it is like to carry a baby or labor with and deliver one. I am not dismissing your role of caretaker for your wife during her pregnancy. Good for you. But don't act like it's anywhere near the same as her role.

Woman 1 - 0 Man

The only way it can ever be. I hope no, though. I hope one day humans evolve so far that one half of the baby is born by the mother and the other half is born by the father. Then they go home and piece the baby together like an IKEA table.

What is so patriarchal about the society? I should feel like in heaven. So why am I not? What is that so good that is in a man's life? That he represses women and at the same time is not as good as women?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

If you want to know what's patriarchal about this society, it's that men were the first doctors and decided they know better how to give birth than women. They literally tried to create the misconception that midwives are uneducated witch doctors and that it was dangerous to have natural childbirth. Did you know the US has a worse infant mortality rate than nearly every modern nation in the world? And it's all because they want to get the women in and out so they can fill more beds and make more money. Rather than wait and letting the birth take the natural amount of time, they tell the woman it's taking too long and they need to induce, which increases the pain, thus increasing the need for an epidural and possibly a c-section. These "doctors" are creating a chain reaction which ultimately increases the danger to both the mother and baby. Just to get them in and out. Did you know that c-sections are at an all time high? The increase in recent years is staggering. Did you know that the most c-sections occur between the hours of 4 and 5 o'clock when doctors want to go home and 10-11 o'clock when the shift changes and they want to go home? Did you know they have no right or real need to take your baby away right after they're born to clean them up, that it's better for bonding that the baby stay with the mother and begin nursing? But most of the time they take the baby away from the mother within the first half hour (sometimes immediately) and when the mother asks why, they say they have to? We don't and we never will, yet most women just go to the doctor and trust whatever they say and forget birth is a natural thing. It's not like getting your tonsils out. I know all this because I care. Believe it or not, not all men are jerks. I take responsibility and learn everything I can to be as much of a help as possible. I'm writing this now because I believe people need to wake up and educate themselves and not run out and get an abortion without fully comprehending the enormity of the decision. I've seen people jump on this site and just toss out advice based on all the propaganda they've been fed and some of them have never read a book, or attended a class, or even had a good friend who went through a pregnancy. All they've done is read people magazine and they think they can give a young girl advice. It's irresponsible.

As amazed as I am, I agree with you on the above. In fact I am aware of all of the things you stated and I agree that this is not the best scenario for pregnant women.

My cousin lost her 1 month old baby almost 3 years ago. I watched the precious little girl die. Now she is pregnant again and is working with a midwife and will have her baby at home. The medical community failed her before.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Erki

Woman 1 - 0 Man

The only way it can ever be. I hope no, though. I hope one day humans evolve so far that one half of the baby is born by the mother and the other half is born by the father. Then they go home and piece the baby together like an IKEA table.

What is so patriarchal about the society? I should feel like in heaven. So why am I not? What is that so good that is in a man's life? That he represses women and at the same time is not as good as women?

Erki, I don't mean to imply that I think men are less than women. That would be a reversal that only brought about the same pain and struggle on men that many women have been dealing with for centuries. There are biological differences built into us that mean women have the babies. There are also things men go through that women can never understand. It goes both ways. We can try to be curious and attentive, but neither will even be able to feel what the other goes through unless science takes an interesting move.

I don't have space here and this thread is already woefully of topic. But it's certainly hard to see what male privilege has afforded you and how women have been subjugated when you are a man. And certainly I don't believe you to act with the sense of entitlement that many men do. Again, this is not an across the board bash of men. But the patriarchal nature of society (in the US at least which is the only place I have personal experience with) is pervasive in such a way that it is hardly recognized if you are not on the "female end" of the equation. And also believe that I am not a victim, merely that I live every day in a society that values and caters to men and in which they hardly acknowledge (or perhaps even realize) that they have such privilege.

[Magnetman]

Hi Laur,

I am actually a grandparent. My son got his girlfriend pregnant in 2001. Her mother took her to the clinic to have an abortion but she told the doctor she didn't want one. That is when her mother came over to the house and informed my wife and I about it.

Her mother actually wanted us to support her insistence that she have an abortion. I personally can't have a baby being a man but I know how it feels to sit beside my wife for 24 hours while she is going through labor pains and I know what it feels like talking to a very young girl that could have or abort my first grandchild with her mother insisting she abort her.

I was very much afraid she would have the abortion but I also knew it wasn't my decision. My advise to her is the same advice I have for you.

You have to decide if you want to have your child. You and only you have the right or the responsibility for the decision. You will have to live with your decision for the rest of your life. Your decision will affect more than just you and the baby, it will also affect the father and both sets of grandparents.

If you decide to have your child your next decision will be whether you will keep the child or give it away. In my granddaughters case her mother originally decided to keep Haley. She found out a few months later that with her life style a baby was more than she could handle. Since Haley had lived with my wife and I since she was born Haley's mother ask us if we wanted to look after her.

Of course we did, I can't hardly imagine what my life would be like without Haley in it. I am also sure that Haley's mother couldn't imagine what it would be like without Haley in her life as well.

The point of all this is to let you know there are many paths a story can take. Just because you select one doesn't mean it will only be the one. I suggest you discuss your thoughts with your parents and the fathers parents. Be open to their input but don't let them decide for you.

Abortion is one option and if you take it it is a final option. Having your child is another option that gives you a number of options even after you have the child.

I wish you peace and harmony in your decision and joy and love in your life.

Magnetman

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

In both of the threads currently recieving posts about abortion the women have already had an abortion. Please read through the entire thread before posting. It just seems unnecesary to me to continue telling them to consider not having an abortion.

Maybe if we want to keep the discussion in an abstract way we could move to another thread. These ladies have made their decision and I feel it should be respected not debated.

That's just me.

[strugglebunny]

oh you poor thing my thoughts are with you .
there is no easy answer.

i am pro choice but i decided to end mine for various reasons
and have been totally knocked for words for how sad and depressed i now feel just can not get out of my head.

please dont think i am preaching just to let you know i know how it is to walk in simmilar shoes

big hug struggle

[verbors]

Hi

Being a male and never faced this problem personally, I realized that I am in the worst position to help, so I will just give one little tip (if I do more, I might do more harm then good).

That tip is to go here

It is podcast #11 by Steve Pavlina on raising awareness through multiple perspectives. I believe it will help in your decision making.

Good luck.