Relationship with my girlfriend hitting a really rough spot

[mlc82]

I've posted here about my gf and I before, and our Introvert (me)-Extrovert (her) personalities conflicting at times, and lately it's like we just can't get along at all anymore. I really love the girl, but we're so different that it's as if we cannot see each other's point of view at all. I'm used to being misunderstood as introverts typically are, but I'm not used to not being able to read/understand someone else.

I feel like she cannot grasp the idea of "It's nothing personal but I need my space and want to be left alone tonight". I cannot achieve this without upsetting her (usually by finally becoming blunt after trying to say it nicely a few times and getting annoyed by her either not understanding or not respecting it).

Case in point is tonight, all I wanted to do was spend a night home by myself getting my apt clean, and relaxing. She's about to move and is in the middle of getting her stuff organized, and I'm going there to move the heavy stuff into a trailer for her tomorrow, then helping her get it all moved in monday- and she calls me tonight wanting me to come help her as well with the organizing, I said no, she of course has to respond sounding like I just told her that her dog had died,and this leads into a big argument- all I can think is "Why the hell do you have to respond like that?"

Believe me, I KNOW that women will pull that sort of thing to try and manipulate someone into feeling guilty and then helping them, and this is always what I think of when she does this and it pisses me off- I can't help it. I'm not the type who likes to ask people to help me do things that no one likes to do, such as cleaning. I'd rather do it all on my own and just suffer through it than drag anyone else in as well. I just cannot understand the thought of, if I did ask someone and they refused for whatever reason, feeling upset and like my whole night was ruined because of it- I'd just suck it up and do it myself since it was MY responsibility to do in the first place! I guess it's this reasoning that causes me to always jump to the "she's trying to manipulate me" conclusion- I've brought this up and she swears it isn't the case, but who knows, I think some people do this without being conciously aware of it.

With the above as an example for tonight, it seems like now our "good times" are actually outnumbered by times we're either annoyed, frustrated, or angry with each other, but at the same time I love the girl and really don't want to end everything if we can somehow make it better. We've talked about this and just can't seem to fix it and make it last. It seems like relationships are so much more fun in the beginning because you only do the fun stuff together, and keep all of the drudgery out of it- I just want that back with her which may not be realistic, but sometimes it feels like we're an old married couple and I'm only 25! In all honesty, every relationship I've ever been in, and even though they've been mostly good ones, they've all just reinforced my feeling of never, ever wanting to get married. It's just not for me.

Sorry if I'm rambling, I've got that bizarre mixed feeling going right now that's one part sadness, one part apathy, and one part wanting to punch the wall in. I really don't want the good things we have together, and there are many, to end, but it feels like our relationship is spiraling away out of the control of either of us. I'm not the type who would go crazy with grief from breaking up- I'd be upset and depressed for awhile, but I'd be ok in the long run, so I'm really not a big fan of clinging to something that isn't working and I've broken up with girls I felt strongly about before because of this, so my wanting to hold onto our relationship here tells me that I really do want to be with the girl, if that makes sense. I just want HER to make sense, and to understand my point of view as well

Any ideas/advice would be appreciated, even if you think it's what I "don't want to hear"- please fire away, cause it'll come in handy.

[NotesMaeve]

Okay. This basically reads, "She's a bitch and expects me to do stuff." Part of being in a relationship is negotiating and doing crap you don't LOVE. Helping move? Yup. Going out with her on weekends? Yup. If she wants you constantly to do crap you hate, go find someone else.

Relationships aren't all sunshine and magic. I love my fiance, but guess what? Like me, he's a work in progress with unique conditions for being with him. He needs someone to cheer him on at gigs and to help with physical crap on bad days and someone who gets up every morning and loves him despite his old pain, just in the same way I need someone who isn't ashamed to kiss me in the middle of the sidewalk and laugh at my jokes and wipe the chocolate off my face because I inevitably WILL eat like a pig.

But despite the fact I can't eat a Dunkins Donut without making a damn mess, he stays. Is what she does enough to stay

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

Okay. This basically reads, "She's a bitch and expects me to do stuff." Part of being in a relationship is negotiating and doing crap you don't LOVE. Helping move? Yup. Going out with her on weekends? Yup. If she wants you constantly to do crap you hate, go find someone else.

Relationships aren't all sunshine and magic. I love my fiance, but guess what? Like me, he's a work in progress with unique conditions for being with him. He needs someone to cheer him on at gigs and to help with physical crap on bad days and someone who gets up every morning and loves him despite his old pain, just in the same way I need someone who isn't ashamed to kiss me in the middle of the sidewalk and laugh at my jokes and wipe the chocolate off my face because I inevitably WILL eat like a pig.

But despite the fact I can't eat a Dunkins Donut without making a damn mess, he stays. Is what she does enough to stay

Thanks for the post! Well, that wasn't really what I was trying to say, I don't mind being expected to do some stuff, like helping her move (I fully plan to!), I was pretty upset when I typed that and it probably didn't come out as coherently in text as it was in my mind. I was kind stuck in an "oh #@!! I don't know how to fix this" moment and just made a rage-post out of the whole thing. I was angry at the time because I had intended this to be my night to finally get my place in order and relax and that idea had appeared to have been destroyed.

As an update, we got together tonight, talked for some time, things are much better now... We apparently talk much more effectively in person than over the phone. I really love this girl and am thankful to have her, don't think I'm not!

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by mlc82

We apparently talk much more effectively in person than over the phone.

That is because people, especially when they are lovers, don't really talk with words.

[uberinquisitive]

mlc82 - as you know, I've been in your gf's position very recently.

I don't think there is a way to "fix" the situation, at least not in the near future.

Even if I work on myself, I will always feel a pinch when my bf tells me he needs space. I'm sure there will be times when I just get really upset and cry, as if it's the first time.

Usually, I'm happy and fine when the bf does his alone thing because he hasn't mentally pulled away. He tells me, "I'm gonna clean my apartment, but I'll see you tomorrow, sweetie."

But, as soon as my intuition senses that he's going deep into the alone time, all of a sudden, I panic. How do I know he's going deep into alone time? He stops calling as regularly. And he tells me, "I'm gonna clean my apartment." No "see you tomorrow." No "sweetie." It's like he becomes impersonal.

I suspect that your gf might be similar to me. Usually, totally fine. Then, maybe once or twice a months, she freaks out.

Some of it is hormonal also. I know that I turn really emotional a week before my period. And, my bf intuitively senses it, so he starts pulling away. It's like he's in self-protection mode. And that triggers an even bigger argument, because I'm in my most vulnerable mode.

I guess the best way to handle the situation is to find patterns, and become more aware.

[JimOfferman]

uber,

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

Some of it is hormonal also. I know that I turn really emotional a week before my period. And, my bf intuitively senses it, so he starts pulling away. It's like he's in self-protection mode. And that triggers an even bigger argument, because I'm in my most vulnerable mode.

Since you are aware of this, you could (and should) try to refrain from starting arguments when you are in your most vulnerable mode. Tell yourself to save the argument for when you feel less emotional and more clear headed. If you do that consistently, you will lessen the need for your bf to withdraw during those periods and - quite ironically - increase your chance of receiving the support you want from him when you need it most.

You cannot control other people directly, but you can control the behaviors in you that trigger others to do certain things.

[uberinquisitive]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Since you are aware of this, you could (and should) try to refrain from starting arguments when you are in your most vulnerable mode. Tell yourself to save the argument for when you feel less emotional and more clear headed. If you do that consistently, you will lessen the need for your bf to withdraw during those periods and - quite ironically - increase your chance of receiving the support you want from him when you need it most.

You cannot control other people directly, but you can control the behaviors in you that trigger others to do certain things.

Good point Jim.

[Angela]

One of the most important things you can do to take care of your relationship is to take care of yourself. Making your well-being your first priority is an act of love not only for yourself, but also for your sweetheart and also for the world.

When you make yourself wrong about that, and tell yourself, "oh, that's so selfish! I should make HER well-being more important than my own!" -- that's actually you trying to take care of her business, which is HER BUSINESS, which she is responsible for. That is not to say that you don't care about her, that you don't want to make a huge difference in her life, and supporting her in her commitment to generating a life she loves. But it's important to remember, I feel, that it is not your job to generate a life that she loves. That's her job. Your job is to generate a life you love. Living a life you love, mlc82, seems to include doing what you can to assist her and please her and be your best self, which is wonderful! But ultimately, her well-being is her responsibility.

You have been straight with her about you require for your well-being, which is some alone time, including that particular night (did you actually tell her ahead of time that you wanted to be alone that particular night?). And when she asserted what she wanted, you subjugated your well-being to hers. If you were able to do that with a glad heart, you would have been fine; but since helping her in this case meant you had to give up the time alone that was very important to you, you felt resentful and manipulated, and you brought that with you into your relationship with her.

The bad news is this is all you're responsibility. The good news is this is all you're responsibility!

I hear in what you say that it's painful for you to put your own well-being first, that you get irritated and resentful and manipulated when she makes you feel like you "owe" her something, like helping her move for instance. But guess what: you don't owe her anything! And she does not owe you. Every action in a loving, long-term mutually beneficial relationship is an action of free choice. She can't "make" you feel manipulated unless you agree to feel manipulated. Another choice you might make is to be really straight and responsible with her: "My sweet, I thought I was feeling manipulated by you, but I'm really manipulating myself. I understand that it's important to you to get x done tonight, and it looks like I didn't make it clear to you that being alone tonight was an essential way of taking care of myself, something that's not up for negotiation. If I don't do what's necessary to take care of myself, then I won't be available and powerful to take other action that I'm passionate about, like tending our relationship and doing everything I can to make sure you feel safe and loved and happy. I'm sorry I was unclear, and that I allowed myself to bring irritation and manipulation into our relationship. Would you please forgive me? I'm very grateful to you for giving me the freedom to take good care of myself, so that I'm powerful and effective in taking care of our relationship, which means the world to me."

Maybe you wouldn't say it in those words, but can you see the power of taking 100% responsibility for your life, and giving others the freedom to make their own choices? She might get mad, or argue, or see your point; whatever she does, she is free to make her own choices, and to learn what there is to learn out of those choices. That does not rob you of your choice to be responsible for your own choices, or to put your own oxygen mask on first.

Kind of wordy, huh? Thanks for listening to me, because this is at least as much for me as it is for you.
Thanks.

[mlc82]

Thanks again for all of the replies... Uber and Jim, what you two are talking about in regard to watching yourself when you know you're on edge (along with Uber's hormone reference) is excellent advice, I try to do the same myself and when I know I'm angry, not discuss things until I've chilled out, which usually doesn't require more than a cup of coffee and 10 minutes of doing something fun like computer games- If I'm really, raging angry, I'll go work out and then come back to the problem

Angela, I totally see what you're saying and part of what I was mad about was definitely myself making myself feel guilty- I was raised with that "always put friends above yourself" idea and sometimes it really drives me nuts. I'm a pretty self centered person (I think there's a big difference between self-centered and "selfish" btw), but find it hard to put my own interests above anyone I care a lot about- I'd feel crappy and and bad about myself if I'd had to put off doing something for one of my close male friends (I have 2 guys who feel almost like brothers, even lived with both off and on for the last 5 years, sometimes both at once- my best friends ) but those guys and I can read each other easily and know when to leave each other alone.

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

mlc82 - as you know, I've been in your gf's position very recently.

I don't think there is a way to "fix" the situation, at least not in the near future.

Even if I work on myself, I will always feel a pinch when my bf tells me he needs space. I'm sure there will be times when I just get really upset and cry, as if it's the first time.

Usually, I'm happy and fine when the bf does his alone thing because he hasn't mentally pulled away. He tells me, "I'm gonna clean my apartment, but I'll see you tomorrow, sweetie."

But, as soon as my intuition senses that he's going deep into the alone time, all of a sudden, I panic. How do I know he's going deep into alone time? He stops calling as regularly. And he tells me, "I'm gonna clean my apartment." No "see you tomorrow." No "sweetie." It's like he becomes impersonal.

I suspect that your gf might be similar to me. Usually, totally fine. Then, maybe once or twice a months, she freaks out.

Some of it is hormonal also. I know that I turn really emotional a week before my period. And, my bf intuitively senses it, so he starts pulling away. It's like he's in self-protection mode. And that triggers an even bigger argument, because I'm in my most vulnerable mode.

I guess the best way to handle the situation is to find patterns, and become more aware.

I get the same way when I'm in the middle of doing something- I just zone in completely and won't hear a word anyone tries to tell me, over the phone or if they happen to be with me. This usually is when I'm doing something that isn't fun, like cleaning as above, and I'm short on the phone if someone calls because I don't want to break my concentration and have to start all over again from the "drag my *ss into gear to do this" beginning point.

I don't understand how anyone can multitask, of course my girlfriend is a master of it but I couldn't do it if my life depended on it. Everything I would try doing at once would just be half-complete by the time I was finished.

[uberinquisitive]

mlc82 - have you explained this to your gf?

I feel I would be really responsive if my bf tells me his issues the following way:

"I know that I can be really brusque. I know, it's kind of ********* behavior, because you would only act that way if you were having an ********* day. I swear, I never meant to be an ********* to you.

You may not believe me...but I get like this because I can't multi-task. When I have to do not-so-fun stuff, like cleaning, I get really preoccupied with getting it done and over with. I'm not like you - you can do a lot of different things at once and it won't affect your mood. I'm like the opposite. I've always been this way.

It has nothing to do with how I feel about you. When I'm done with the chore, I have mental space to think about how wonderful you are. Even when I am overwhelmed with chores, I still think you're wonderful.

So, if you could help me out by keeping that in mind during those days. And realize that it's just me trying to deal with things the best I can. And I'll be happy to spend time with you shortly."

For me, I am infinitely understanding when I feel like the other person understands where I'm coming from. Have you asked her how she feels when you pull away? Acknowledge her feelings, and that you can at least see where she's coming from.

[Rose of Cairo]

mlc82, I can relate to the introvert/extrovert problem very well. And to the "old married couple" thing too But IMO this old married couple thing has absolutely nothing to do with unpleasant tasks like moving. It's more in the couple dynamics.

I think in my case it's because I do the fun things mostly alone (or they take place in my head). My relationship, like my apt, is more something like the safe harbor - my home is my castle. I guess that can get quite boring after a while. I don't know if that's the case for you too. But in any case, it's up to us to change that!

You want the fun in your relationship back? Do it! Why don't you just go out more often and have fun with her? Having fun can be about very little things too, no need to go out. Even unpleasant tasks can be a lot of fun, like a spontaneous water battle while cleaning the bathroom together. You know what I mean. I think fun or not fun is nothing else than just in your head.

Could it be that you expect this relationship to be this way after a while, because the others have been? You know - you get what you expect.

Just like:

Originally Posted by you

Believe me, I KNOW that women will pull that sort of thing to try and manipulate someone into feeling guilty and then helping them, and this is always what I think of when she does this and it pisses me off- I can't help it.

Women will NOT pull that sort of thing to try and manipulate someone into feeling guilty and then helping them. That's only what you think about women, what you expect to see. You get what you expect.

You can create what you want to have


edit: oh, and I can't multitask either. We're really twins

[Spiritual]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

mlc82 - have you explained this to your gf?

I feel I would be really responsive if my bf tells me his issues the following way:

"I know that I can be really brusque. I know, it's kind of ********* behavior, because you would only act that way if you were having an ********* day. I swear, I never meant to be an ********* to you.

You may not believe me...but I get like this because I can't multi-task. When I have to do not-so-fun stuff, like cleaning, I get really preoccupied with getting it done and over with. I'm not like you - you can do a lot of different things at once and it won't affect your mood. I'm like the opposite. I've always been this way.

It has nothing to do with how I feel about you. When I'm done with the chore, I have mental space to think about how wonderful you are. Even when I am overwhelmed with chores, I still think you're wonderful.

So, if you could help me out by keeping that in mind during those days. And realize that it's just me trying to deal with things the best I can. And I'll be happy to spend time with you shortly."


For me, I am infinitely understanding when I feel like the other person understands where I'm coming from. Have you asked her how she feels when you pull away? Acknowledge her feelings, and that you can at least see where she's coming from.

Why is there this constant need for affirming each other? This is not love! It's control!

Damn where is the fun when one has to be constantly occupied affirming and putting the other up? I can understand that someone likes his/her partner to be there when they feel insecure. But having to explain wanting some free time to clean is just beyond my comprehension!

Fix your selfworth and selfesteem before going into a romantic relationship, or you'll end up controlling the other instead of loving.....

[newparadigm]

My girlfriend and I go through the same thing. The only difference is that we are both extroverted and dominant personalities. So when we get heated it really gets heated!! I do have a lot of your qualities though and extremely enjoy my time on the computer and being alone (even if its just hanging out and reading).

I use to think she was manipulative but I found she actually just would rather hang out with me (go figure) than anything else.

I think your lady just really likes you and would prefer to spend time with you over anything else!
Just let her know that you need your alone time and I'm sure she'll try to oblige

[xxxdawniexxx]

hi mlc82 im 20 and have been going through relationship problem to but mines actually ended now i think... if your diff from eachother why dont you put her straight for one or get someone new or be single its the best way i havent been single in nearly 4 yrs but now im gunna move on women can be bitches i can be a bitch its just the way women are i think wanting there own way but instead of me getting my own way it was my exs he acted like a complete child if he didnt get his own way he'd throw a strop im like whos grown up you or j (my 19 month old son) im not good with advice btw

[DayInTheLife]

Hi mlc82,

I noticed a recurring theme in your post:

. I'm used to being misunderstood as introverts typically are, but I'm not used to not being able to read/understand someone else.

I feel like she cannot grasp the idea of "It's nothing personal but I need my space and want to be left alone tonight". I cannot achieve this without upsetting her

I just want HER to make sense, and to understand my point of view as well

You don't feel like she understands where you are coming from, correct?

I have got some great advice for you, but I can't take credit for it.

You will find it ten times easier to be understood if you attempt to understand where SHE is coming from first. Don't even think about trying to make your point until you understand hers. Put aside your intense desire to be understood while you calmly listen to what she wants YOU to understand. Just think about what she says, appreciate her needs and desires and fears. Don't judge what she's saying. Tell her you understand and you can identify with her point of view.

After that, you'll see that being understood happens quite naturally and smoothly. Without anger or blame, calmly tell her what your point of view is. She'll be much more receptive to your needs, and a compromise will almost suggest itself.

This is such a powerful way to communicate. If you ever observe an argument between two people, you'll notice there is very little communication going on. Each person is just ignoring the what the other says until they get a chance to shout out their own side of it. Nobody listens, nobody understands.

Here's a link that probably explains this concept better than I have.

Seek first to understand

You have to give the same understanding you are seeking before you can expect to receive it from her.

[Killian]

You are going thru a lot of the same things I am going thru right now with my GF. MY GF is totally needy and expects me to MAKE her happy/feel better, etc. She had a bad day today for example. I listened to her about her problems, offered my sympathy over the phone but when i said i didnt feel like driving and staying over at her apartment tonight and that i wanted to sleep in my own bed, I got "You are my boyfriend, you are SUPPOSE" to come over and make me feel better!". I am not her therapist...i cant do that, its not my job, but of course she doesnt see it that way.

I am also an introvert (she is a little more on the extroverted side). I need my alone time like i need water and food. I need down time away from people in order to re-charge my battery. My GF craves attention and affection. We keep fighting over and over about the same things about personal space and together time. She doesnt understand me and prob. never will.

In short, I know i have to break up with my GF and i think you should seriously consider if you can reach some kind of common ground with your GF. If you dont think you ever will...get out now! Relationships are not easy, but when you arent in a healthy one, i think you will eventually figure it out.

Good luck

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Killian

In short, I know i have to break up with my GF

You say this like you have already decided that a break up is the only solution. If you really think that is the case, then set her free as soon as possible. It is not fair of you to hold her back from finding the love that she needs by pretending to be that person.

Although I'd hope you would take another look at what DayInTheLife posted above and realize that you too may need to understand her first (and let her know that) before she can understand you.

[mlc82]

Thanks yet again for the replies to everyone!

newparadigm, I feel you, and I think she does just genuinely enjoy hanging out with me over almost anything else- she's a "people person", and I'm more of a hermit, so go figure.


DayInTheLife, I really liked your post as well and will take it to heart!


Killian, mine doesn't act the same as what you're saying, the "you're SUPPOSED to do this/that because you're my boyfriend" angle. That would drive me nuts- Good luck with however you decide to handle it!


Rose, yes I think we may have been seperated at birth!
I disagree though when you say that women WILL NOT pull that sort of thing in order to manipulate someone- I think some men and women BOTH will, I only notice the women and think it might be more common with women- If any of my male friends or I tried to do that to each other, we'd meet only derision and scorn and never live it down. In my experience men tend to be more direct in their pressuring (as in "Hey if you want to stay home and be a wuss, that's fine, but I'm going to the gym- maybe you can take up knitting and bridge while you skip working out today"), whereas women tend to use an impression of being upset to get the same point across, something most men would be horrified of the consequences of


Things are going well with the gf lately, as they usually do- if I posted all of the fun times we have together I'd be banned for spamming the Social board, but I also don't need advice for those times


Edit: Oh, in case it wasn't clear, I WASN'T complaining that she wanted me to help her move! I'm a 5'10, 215lb guy who lifts weights for fun, and she's a 5'2 120lb girl- of course I helped her! The night I was talking about, she was just organizing her clothes and figuring out what she wanted to pack, not actually moving anything heavy, and likely bitching and complaining the whole time like she always does when packing for something- I try to avoid her if she's packing for a trip as well