Swirling through cycles of deep insecurity, please help me

[templanoid]

Hi everyone!
It's my first post here so I think a small introduction would be in order. I'm a 22 year old male, born and bred in Thailand but not a Thai by ethnicity. I graduated with my Bachelors from University 2 years ago and now I have what I consider to be quite a nice job. I've been reading Steve Pavlina's site for a while now but never actually gotten myself to post over here, eventhough it is inevitable..i feel.

Since my early college days (5 years ago), up until now..I've always been going through periods of severe insecurity, and resulting depressions..and this has to do mostly with my social life. I've always felt that I've been pretty socially inadequate and this has really put me into a lot of mental agony and sometimes grief that I can never seem to truly escape from.

So far in my life I've never had a girlfriend, and I feel like I am not sure about how to treat girls (that could be because of my non co-education high-school that I attended). This makes me highly insecure in front of my friends at times, and now slowly I start feeling like I cannot even make new friends that easily. The only good friends I have are friends from my high-school or a few of them from very early days of college. Any new people seem very hard for me to adapt to. I have had some people tell me that I need to "open up" more..but I seriously have no idea how I can do that apart from what I'm already doing.

I think one of the biggest factors contributing to all this is the fact that I just find myself to not be a funny person at all...and funny people are the ones that can attract people and have a good time with each other. This makes me feel really bad, as I just can't come up with things that seem to be "funny" and it makes me worse when I'm out and about with my friends..I always find myself to be in a position where I'm quite a quiet person, and don't have that much input, leading me to be pretty "invisible" in a group...and sometimes I feel that I criticize a lot..something that I've ralized and controlled these days so I don't do that, because the last thing i want to appear as is a negative person..but even that can be hard to completely avoid sometime.

This is basically what has made me feel very insecure recently..and I've even felt so bad that I've cried to bed at night. This makes me sound very.."emo" as they say it in the new urban vocabularies, and trust me I don't want to be that and I try hard to get out of it, but I just can't seem to do it at all. Again, I do not want to be percieved as someone who complains about everything. I think that I have a very loving family and that I have a very well paying job..A lot of the times I'm also quite a happy person (coffee can really help here). so those aspects of my life are good and warrant no complaints...but I feel like social life is very important for me, but I just can't seem to improve or be better at that I really need help as to how I can improve this or perhaps I haven't even found myself yet? I really get confused and need help on this.

I'll appreciate any input, thanks!

[JimOfferman]

Hi templanoid!

Originally Posted by templanoid

and funny people are the ones that can attract people and have a good time with each other.

So I had a pretty good laugh when you said that! Silly you! And you say you can't be funny?

You seem to have two very limiting beliefs 1) that you can't be funny 2) that only funny people can have a good time.

Both beliefs are equally untrue and unfounded. Maybe you could start digging through your soul to find out why you have these beliefs. Where are they rooted? Once you've found the base, uproot the darned tree and plant some nice flowers instead!

Btw. you might also want to read European38's thread, since she shares somewhat similar (and equally unfounded) beliefs. You have to excuse me for being too lazy to retype much of the advice I already gave to her. There's also a boatload of older threads about how "fixing" a social life or overcoming social anxiety, all there for you to explore and learn from.

Good luck to you!

[templanoid]

Hey Jimoffer man, thanks for the reply. Yes actually I just nocied her thread about 30 minutes ago and was going through it, I can see some similarities.

Jimofferman: You genuinely thought that was funny? I don't understand how..I was (in my opionion) pointing out what I felt is true.

I really do feel I that I can be funny..but it happens very rarely. I've never been able to observe a situation where I can make people laugh very much out of my own mind..the only times I've really made people laugh is because of relaying some joke or a story that someone else told me...not my own, this makes me feel like I'm not capable of being humorous. Especially when I'm with girls/women, I can not really seem to say something to make them positively laugh.

I've noticed that most of what I say is very neutral or just something "factual" that is never really funny...like a stale statement that people reply with things such as "oh thats cool" or "i see" or something along those lines. It's as if my brain is not wired to say anything in a humourous way Since my high-school this to this date..I can't remember myself being a humourous person. And when I see other funny people, it makes me think that thy're pretty intellectual when they're able to do that...and that shows that a person who can talk well and present themselves in a good way is confident about themselves..both of which I seem to have problems doing in general social situations.

Now let me correct myself. I agree with you JimOfferman that even non funny people can have a good time. I've had good times by laughing at funny people's joke (and when I laugh, i really laugh hard, as most people who know me can attest)...sorry abotu that, I correct myself. The problem here is for me to make other people laugh..which I can't really seem to do for some reason...

The thing is I don't know if I have social anxiety or not..I feel alright around people..it's just the part where I have to talk to people something that I'm not good at. I feel that when people talk on me one on one, i'm never the one to make them laugh, but the one whome which they have to only talk in a very neutral method that can get easily boring after a while.... yet some of htese people remian my friends...now this makes me think, why? Why is it they remain my friends when I barely make them laugh and only talk neutrally? The only conclusion I can come up with is that the people who are able to be my friends are very nice people that are able to accept me as a friend and not just ignore me. And most of my friends that I know are actually quite funny people too, and in comparison to them I'm very "normal", and I really can't avoid that comparison, when I look at other factors combined (number of friends they have vs. me, them having a girlfriend, etc)

...And that maybe the the reason why I dont have a girlfriend or that many friends in general so far, it really does suck when I think about it.

Overall I'd say that I'm not a good talker, I can't talk very well and that really hurts to admit. But I guess that's how you start to improve?

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by templanoid

You genuinely thought that was funny? I don't understand how..I was (in my opionion) pointing out what I felt is true.

Yes, I genuinely thought it was funny and the mere fact that I had a laugh out of it, proves that your assertion is, in fact, not true. Don't you just love logic!

I really do feel I that I can be funny..but it happens very rarely.

So you're not a natural comedic. Big deal! Your ability to relate to other people is not dependent on your comedic talents. If that were the case, we'd all be experts in the field by now because all non-funny people would have long since died out as a result of natural selection.

Did you know that the great Rowan Atkinson is actually a very serious person in real life? I even dare to bet that he isn't all that funny to be around, outside of office hours.

Humor is a skill that can be learned like any other, not a character trait.

and that shows that a person who can talk well and present themselves in a good way is confident about themselves

You have caused and effect reversed: a person that is confident can talk well - not the other way around.

The thing is I don't know if I have social anxiety or not..I feel alright around people...

The gist here is that you see yourself as boring. Let's start with that. If you don't even find yourself interesting, how can you expect this from others? Sounds a bit unreasonable, dunnit?

And I know that you are wrong. 100% sure. Beyond any reasonable doubt. You are, in fact, very interesting. The challenge that lies ahead, for you, is to convince yourself of that fact. That's your first job. Convince yourself. I wish I could do that for you mate, but I can't.

...And that maybe the the reason why I dont have a girlfriend or that many friends in general so far, it really does suck when I think about it.

Whether or not you have a girlfriend or how many friends you have says absolutely nothing about you. Those things are circumstantial. People might find it easier to relate to you if you have more confidence, but that doesn't magically up your friend count.

Overall I'd say that I'm not a good talker, I can't talk very well and that really hurts to admit. But I guess that's how you start to improve?

In principle, yes. Acknowledging the problem is the start of the resolution. But, again, I don't think that not being a good talker is your problem.

[templanoid]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Yes, I genuinely thought it was funny and the mere fact that I had a laugh out of it, proves that your assertion is, in fact, not true. Don't you just love logic!

So that laughter is not because I was trying to be funny, just the fact itself was true, which thus made you laugh. (Again i'm not trying to argue that i'm not funny here..but I honestly think that is the case, no?)

So you're not a natural comedic. Big deal! Your ability to relate to other people is not dependent on your comedic talents. If that were the case, we'd all be experts in the field by now because all non-funny people would have long since died out as a result of natural selection.

But most people I know know how to say humourous things that is generally funny and causes others (including me) to laugh. What really depresses me is that I cant find anything to say that's funny, not even in my own mind. I can't really seem to come up with something that I *myself* find funny. I'm just very good at logical thinking and analyzing like those things you see in those scientific documentaries..no emotions, no laughter...that's how it's like inside my brain.

Did you know that the great Rowan Atkinson is actually a very serious person in real life? I even dare to bet that he isn't all that funny to be around, outside of office hours.

Humor is a skill that can be learned like any other, not a character trait.

I think that's different because Rowan Atkinson's nature of being funny doesn't come from the way he talks, but the way he acts..which is easy for anyone to learn, imo. But what I'm talking about here is having a humours mind, that can think of anything and turn it into a funny concept. Do you see what I mean?

You have caused and effect reversed: a person that is confident can talk well - not the other way around.

Yes, I get what you mean, I agree....I guess I do lack a lot of confidence in that case? How do I gain that back? I can't just "believe" that I have it out of nowhere.

The gist here is that you see yourself as boring. Let's start with that. If you don't even find yourself interesting, how can you expect this from others? Sounds a bit unreasonable, dunnit?

I got to admit, I don't know if I finf myself interesting. I find myself being interested in other things, but I doubt whether I myself am all that interesting.

And I know that you are wrong. 100% sure. Beyond any reasonable doubt. You are, in fact, very interesting. The challenge that lies ahead, for you, is to convince yourself of that fact. That's your first job. Convince yourself. I wish I could do that for you mate, but I can't.

Are you saying that I am interesting because every human being can be interesting? But do you think that you could be generalizing a bit here? Everyone is not the same is it?

And how will I be able to convince myself when I've never noticed myself in the situation of being interesting to others or being humourous? This has to come from somewhere, and especially I can't make this up..or I feel like I'm spinning something up and lying myself.

Whether or not you have a girlfriend or how many friends you have says absolutely nothing about you. Those things are circumstantial. People might find it easier to relate to you if you have more confidence, but that doesn't magically up your friend count.

I agree here. But the fact that I never had one at this stage *is* not the norm and slightly unusual. Which, in a way, thus signify my social inadequacy.

In principle, yes. Acknowledging the problem is the start of the resolution. But, again, I don't think that not being a good talker is your problem.

So what would you think is my problem? Lack of confidence?

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by templanoid

So that laughter is not because I was trying to be funny

You presented a silly assumption as fact and ran with it, which is the basis for many comedy routines.

But most people I know know how to say humourous things that is generally funny and causes others (including me) to laugh. What really depresses me is that I cant find anything to say that's funny, not even in my own mind. I can't really seem to come up with something that I *myself* find funny. I'm just very good at logical thinking and analyzing like those things you see in those scientific documentaries..no emotions, no laughter...that's how it's like inside my brain.

Your (perceived) lack of humor isn't the problem, but your deriding yourself because of that is.

I think that's different because Rowan Atkinson's nature of being funny doesn't come from the way he talks, but the way he acts..which is easy for anyone to learn, imo. But what I'm talking about here is having a humours mind, that can think of anything and turn it into a funny concept. Do you see what I mean?

I can assure you that acting funny is much harder to learn than talking funny and that both are in fact skills that can be learned through practice.

I got to admit, I don't know if I finf myself interesting. I find myself being interested in other things, but I doubt whether I myself am all that interesting.

This really is the root of your problem - your belief that you are not interesting.

Are you saying that I am interesting because every human being can be interesting? But do you think that you could be generalizing a bit here? Everyone is not the same is it?

So unless you are one of those couch potatoes who does nothing else than watch TV and drink soda's all day, you HAVE to be at least somewhat interesting. What are your passions? What are your dreams? What do you do for a living? Why is your room decorated the way it is? Where have you travelled? Whom have you met? Etc.

You have a life that is unknown to me and to the rest of the world and learning about lives unknown is always interesting (aforementioned couch potatoes excluded).

And how will I be able to convince myself when I've never noticed myself in the situation of being interesting to others or being humourous? This has to come from somewhere, and especially I can't make this up..or I feel like I'm spinning something up and lying myself.

You convince yourself by taking long hard looks at all that defines you. Who are you really? Why are you the way you are? Do you plan to stay that way? If not, how will you change?

I agree here. But the fact that I never had one at this stage *is* not the norm and slightly unusual. Which, in a way, thus signify my social inadequacy.

Does. Not. Matter.

I've never had a girlfriend, but I am definitely not boring because of that.

So what would you think is my problem? Lack of confidence?

Definitely an important factor. A lack of self love appears to be a problem too.

Learn to love yourself more than you would love any other. Only if you love yourself first, can you truly and deeply love another. You and your life is the basis for everything else, so start at the root!

[frajilthunder]

templanoid, Do they have anything like toastmasters there in Thailand? One good way to improve your confidence and self-love is to take some chances and experience some successes. Toastmasters may help you with that. As was said earlier, talking to people is a concrete skill that can be learned and developed. As you learn this skill, your confidence will increase, making it easier to further develop this skill, increasing your confidence even more etc.

In the meantime, make a list of all your positive qualities and recite them a couple of times a day.

Have a lovely ride

[templanoid]

Thanks for the kind replies so far guys, I really appreciate it!

JimOfferman: Well to be honest, here's what I think about myself. I actually do think that I'm sort of interesting..but in my own very personal way. I have interests in logical philosophies and things like that, but then all the stuff I find interesting seems to be only the black and white things like how stuff works, logic, or etc. I don't seem to have a mind, or a way of thinking, that can come up with entertaining concepts..and this is what is putting me down I think.

frajilthunder: Thanks for that! I just searched for toastmasters thailand and did find several pretty active toastmaster clubs here, however I dont know if I have the time to join, or if I will even be bothered..but I wish I do join it sometime soon.

And about self-love: This is one aspect of my life I'm really unsure about. I've never actually sat down and thought err "how much i love myself?" I've very apathetic to that concept.

Speaking of which, I feel that overall in my life I'm a pretty apathetic person. I feel like I do not care for anything or anyone at times, which is what has caused me to become like this...so in the times when I *do* care about something or someone/people, it really effects me. I have interests in computers, science, the goth subculture, philosophy, comedy, etc...but then I feel that I'm not bothered to be actively participating in these things as much as I should be.

I feel easily tired and exhausted that causes me to be very care-free about anything...this is when I'm alone. And when I'm with other people who appear very interesting and are very vigilant about what's going on around them and seemingly have the abilities to think very fast...it really puts me down. I feel like I've grown up to be someone I never wanted to be.

I'm very quiet in groups, so quiet that there have been situations where a new person would be introduced by my friends to everyone in the group except me...this can really hurt at times.

I believe that talking well is not simply a learnable skill. I really believe that talking well comes from what's inside your mind, the way you think and your ability to notice and interpret other things, isn't this true?

[C33]

Templanoid,

You don't sound like a boring or uninteresting person at all...

Maybe you have interests that are difficult to convey in conversation. Logical matters, mathematics, sciences, anything factual are hard to discuss in a casual, social setting.

However, anyone who is passionate about a subject makes it interesting and worthy of attention.It's not what you talk about or what you say, it's how you say things and how much you engage people.

Personally, I don't like jokesters, and loud, funny people.You can be humorous without being loud or telling jokes. A dark sense of humor is lovely especially coming from a quiet, shy person, because it has the effect of surprise.

It is very likely that you will find people to appreciate your shyness and reservei.Believe in attracting friends who will make the effort to talk to you and learn about all the interesting facts about you .They will be glad to know you better, and you will be glad that they searched you out.

[ScottJMurray]

Since my early college days (5 years ago), up until now..I've always been going through periods of severe insecurity, and resulting depressions..and this has to do mostly with my social life.

I've had the same problems. My insecurities have always held me back from getting what I want. What helped me to finally overcome the bulk of it was to recognize just how absolutely pissed off I was to let these entities inside my mind run my life. I don't know when exactly I learned to feel so inferior, but I recognize it as total BS now. It's like a giant illusion. What's important though is to identify with the anger instead of the inferiority. This will elevate your level of consciousness out of shame and into the anger stage, where you can proceed to start taking your life back.

I think one of the biggest factors contributing to all this is the fact that I just find myself to not be a funny person at all...and funny people are the ones that can attract people and have a good time with each other. This makes me feel really bad, as I just can't come up with things that seem to be "funny" and it makes me worse when I'm out and about with my friends.

I also had the same construct in my head. What I noticed was that when I was actually making people laugh, I wasn't even thinking about it. When I try to make people laugh, it never goes over well because it doesn't come off as natural.

Learning to be funny isn't the problem for you, it's learning to be yourself. Obviously you're frustrated, and it's time to find some support for that. Be you emotional self with those around you. They might not all like it, but it will help to sort out who is worth actually being friends with and who isn't. This process can be painful, so be prepared to go through some tough sh-t until you come out the other side. Humor can wait, you have some issues you need to sort out first.

.but I feel like social life is very important for me, but I just can't seem to improve or be better at that I really need help as to how I can improve this or perhaps I haven't even found myself yet? I really get confused and need help on this.

You hit the nail on the head with the bolded statement here. You haven't found yourself yet. All your problems with interacting with other people stem from one core issue - you don't feel like you are good enough to interact well. You don't feel comfortable being yourself, and so chances are other people aren't comfortable being around you.

With most of social interaction, there isn't much intellectual muscle being used. It's all emotional exchange. Developing rapport with people is a lot easier when your brain isn't caught up worrying about how you are going to be perceived. The problem is that a lot of your mental energy is tied up in these feelings of inferiority you have, and so all of your "intellectual" attempts to make gains in the social arena have failed. You're using the wrong part of your brain.

Good conversation is fluid and effortless because both parties are being their emotional selves. They aren't trying to be something they aren't. This is what you need to work on, being comfortable with yourself. Once you are, you will see that socialization becomes effortless and fun instead of stressful and nerve-wracking.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by templanoid

I feel like I've grown up to be someone I never wanted to be.

It's not too late to change into someone you do want to be. You have the power. It's in your heart. It's in your soul. It's in you. Go find yourself! It may take some time, but trust me when I say it is well worth the effort.

I can totally relate to your situation, because I've been there too. In my struggle to try and overcome my lack of self worth, I wrote these words:

When you look at yourself in the mirror
Are you proud of what you're seeing
Can you smile and say: this is me
'Cause only when you start looking at yourself that way
Your life will be as it was meant to be

(They eventually became the chorus of my song This Is Me)

You have to understand that when I first wrote these words, I could hardly stand to look at myself in the mirror.

The song is now almost a decade old and these days I can hardly find enough mirrors to admire my reflection in. I'm proud to say my reflection is now the exact image of the man I want to be.

I believe that talking well is not simply a learnable skill.

There at least a hundred-thousand years of history that disagrees with you here. If talk wasn't a learnable skill, none of us could speak. Civilization as we know it would not exist.

Free your mind. You are capable of amazing things. Don't deny yourself the satisfaction of having those experiences.

[uberinquisitive]

The day you're comfortable with yourself, people will flock towards you. Because people appreciate authenticity above all things.

I know funny people who have "groupies." I also know intense, stoic types with groupies. In fact, there is no one type of person who is more interesting or popular with the masses.

My advice to you - be kind to yourself. Everyone feels insecure. Everyone wants reassurance from others. We all have bad days, as well as good days. Life is about up cycles and down cycles. What you're going through, so many people also feel the same way. But you're honest and self-aware enough to express it. That in itself is a great sign that you're on the fast-track to becoming an authentic, vulnerable, fascinating person.

[templanoid]

I've considered a lot of the ideas here, but I always feel like i can never really climb out of this hole so far. I just dont know how to be more "open" or let go off myself,etc...I feel like it's not wired in me. And most of the time I just feel apathetic about it..as if I have no energy to do anything about it.

It's as if I haven't reached a low enough point in my life, that's why I'm not that motivated to do something about it. I still have to reach that lower point before I get the energy to really make a change.

I still honestly feel like being a social person with good talking skills is just not "wired" in my brain, and I have no concievable notion on how I can actually gain this trait.

To the guys who've replied: How do I find myself? How do I get comfortable with myself?

What are some physical things I could go to actually make myself beleive that this is all possible? I've been a very objective person and I tend to rely on hard facts to help me believe in something (and thus change it), that's why things like EFT will not work on me, I think. Same goes for the concept of God or any other thing, I just need to see it and have it make sense to believe in it. I'm a very atheist agnostic by nature, but I still believe that life is a very beautiful thing.

So far when I've been out with girls, it's sometimes very silent that it feels a bit awkward (not very awkward though, mind you), and I keep feeling like if they were with someone else they could probably be laughing and smiling all along.

What do you guys think of this? Again, thanks for all the replies, I read each and everyone of them and really appreciate it!

[templanoid]

Was further thinking about this (always am thinking about it actually ), are you guys trying to say this:

If I love myself enough, I will start to be a talkative and a well versed person?
Or being non-talkative and non-funny, just a very neutral person, is completely fine? (But if that's true, then how do you become social? How do you get people to come to you?)

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by templanoid

Was further thinking about this (always am thinking about it actually ), are you guys trying to say this:

If I love myself enough, I will start to be a talkative and a well versed person?
Or being non-talkative and non-funny, just a very neutral person, is completely fine? (But if that's true, then how do you become social? How do you get people to come to you?)

If you love yourself exactly as you are and exactly as you are not, it doesn't really matter how talkative or funny you are really, because you will be completely comfortable with being you...

and people will love you for it.

[templanoid]

How can I begin the quest of wanting to love myself? It's something I've never really thought about, eventhough I've heard a lot about it.

And how do I avoid my constant seeking of approval from other people? Getting other's approval is what makes me feel really elated and successful, when I see other people getting approvals all the time, and comparatively I get very rare approvals..it naturally makes me insecure. How can I avoid all this? It really drives me crazy.