You Be The Judge

[MyBrainHurts]

Hi all first off I would like to say hello and that I am new to the forum.

Im going to start off by explaining a little bit about myself before I get into the story.

I am a person with and introverted personality (to a degree). Ive taken all of the jung tests and every one pinged me as a INTJ. I agree for the most part with the result data the tests provided.

Ok now to what I actually have to say:

I just moved to another state and have been hanging out with a client/business partner of mine. He has taken me around the city and to play racket ball and whatnot, which I had a good time doing. I am currently in the process in trying to build my social skills and make new friends.

The thing is that our personalities clash when it comes to doing things together outside of business. Tonight he made me pretty angry which is kind of a hard thing to do since im not really much of an emotional person, or I never let my emotions become intense because I have my own mental control measures to calm me down before I get to angry, or to the point where I display my anger.

Every time we go out, afterwards he pretty much judges everything I say to other people. Im going to tell you what happened tonight for example.

We went out to the recreational center to play racket ball. (im trying to lose weight to help gain back some self confidence in my physical appearance. Im not fat but a little chubby at 220 stocky build). Anyway some guys come in and we just starting introducing ourselfs. And basicly I started talking with one of the guys and I said something along the lines of "yah im just rookie here to burn some calories off" and then added "I'm doing the whole salad diet thing and man do I make a mean salad with everything you can imagine". Ok that second part I don't really know why I said that but for some reason I guess I just associated it with me being there to lose weight. And perhaps because I was trying to some extent to extend the conversation because I did not know what to say next.

Another example is he made a comment that his cingular phone didnt get good reception and then I told him "Well I had a verizon phone that started out at 40 per month and ended up at 80 and now have cingular and my phone works great, it even went through a full washer cycle and came out working."

Now I don't really know why I decided at the time to mention verizon phone that I first had instead of just mentioning the cingular phone only.

He criticized me on just about everything I said to these people that we just met and it just made me angry because I felt that I was making an effort to be friendly and outgoing.

See, I don't really care that much about what people think of me because I know that I am a moral and respectable person. I do not feel that I am shy at all because when I feel the desire to try to open a dialog with someone I do so, its just a matter of will power like quiting smoking ( which i did three years ago) it was my first step in trying to improve myself physically and mentally.

My client/partner on the other hand is care about what other people think even people he does not know, for example he does not even want to talk in public for fear that someone might hear what is said which I do not understand. I do not have a fear of saying something in public to someone that I know and someone else that I do not know hearing what I have to say because in my mind there really not even listening nor do they care.

The only thing he would talk about are things that are meaningless and irrelevant so if someone did hear something they couldn't make much of a judgment of him I guess?

I am not a judgmental person, I do not judge people but merely try to understand there perspective.

Anyway the guys are getting back together next wednesday and he said "you can go on your own" as if he was embarrassed to be around me because of the way I communicate which made me abit angry.

From my perspective if someone I know says something that I perceive as dumb I wouldn't judge them on it or be embarrassed to be around them because I embrace people for who they are.


I don't really like the way he views things on social-interaction.
What do you think????

Here is the email I sent him:

[MyBrainHurts]

CONTINUED

************************************************** ********************************************
So since you said you cant prove anything I set out to prove who I am instead by taking some psycology tests that analyze my personality.
In order to see if and what the fundamental flaws are with my personality. Before you critize someone which is just a simple part of an "extroverts" personality trait you should read your own and criticize yourself first instead of worrying about other people. And remember that no one is perfect and perfection is unattainable. No personality type is perfect.

Since I do not believe that you will read beyond this paragraph I will lay it out for you. I am who I am and it will not change over night.

- I respect other people
- I listen and analyze what other people say and make an effort to learn from it if possible
- I am in fact easy to get along with ( even though at times I argue about stupid **** that is in fact irrelevant to both parties but most of the time its because im bored or am testing someones reactions).
- I am very direct as you have noticed I do not see the need to hide my feelings. It is disrespectfully to "pretend" to like someone when you do not and is especially disrespectful to talk about them negatively when you leave the room because you do not have the courage to confront them in the moment that they caused you to not like them in the first place. ( and infact you should not judge a person based on one encounter) there are many reasons people can be a specific way at any given moment (aka they could be tired, emotionly stressed, having a bad day or just not focused at the time).
- I am responsible and meet the requirements of agreements I make.

I am analytical and know most of my flaws already because I analyze myself. I already know that I am not a gifted communicator and sometimes things come out wrong or I say something stupid because I do not know what to say, but in an effort to balance my introversion into extroversion but not too much. (because too much extroversion makes you shallow and judgmental.) I try to engage in conversation. And because obviously I am not good at starting conversations due to my lack of social skills due to my introverted personality, of course it is a difficult task for me.

So here we are at the point that I am making, I already know that communication and social skills is not one of my talents.
When you harass me about it you do more harm than good and infact if I wasn't so analytical it would push me more towards being
even more introverted because you are attacking my core confidence in even attempting to make a conversation in the first place which is infact an effort
to improve my social skills in the first place. Instead of offering advice on how to start a conversation you harass me about and tell me that " i can go by myself next time"

Since you are so keen to point out my flaws ill hand you some of yours.
From my perspective you come off as "Judgemental, Stuck Up and Shallow"). Never in my life have I heard someone tell me that they did not want to go
somewhere in public with me because I had a conversation about salad or made a comment about it. This is just one example.

I in fact have allot of friends in many states and they already know my flaws because they are my friends ( if they did not like me or did not come to know my personality they are not my friends but an acquaintance). they accept me for who I am and most tend to like and respect me when they get to know me.


http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-to-extrovert/

"Envisioning yourself as the wrong kind of extrovert. If you find the extroverted people around you shallow and perhaps even annoying, why would you want to be more like them? You wouldn't."

Wow I can't agree more with the creator of this website lol!

"Realize that when you hold yourself back from socializing, you're not only depriving yourself — you're also depriving other people of the chance to get to know you. How much longer do you want your future spouse or best friend to remain alone?"

Anyway I do not dislike you any less or believe you are a bad person because of your extroverted personality since I am not
very much of an "emotional" person. I understand extroversion and introversion and how people lean toward a certain personality trait. I have not met
if at all anyone with an extremely balanced personality. Such a thing takes years of practice and intellectual resolve to even come close to achieving.

If you do not agree with my assessment I can post it in a forum of psychology which would describe me and you in an honest way and everything each of us said and did and how we reacted. Since we both have flaws that apparently do not work well with eachother it would take a 3rd party to say if my perspective is correct or not. The post would not include names of course. Do you have to courage to find out the truth ?

Perhaps they will say that we are both correct from our own perspectives.
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Online test based on Jung - Myers-Briggs typology
Your Type is
INTJ
Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
56 75 1 1


Qualitative analysis of your type formula
You are:

* moderately expressed introvert
* distinctively expressed intuitive personality
* slightly expressed thinking personality
* slightly expressed judging personality



Read this description of what a INTJ personality type is it is 99% accurate

INTJ Profile


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Additionally I took the "ultimate psychology test"

The Ultimate Personality Test - Tickle Personality Tests

"This means you're one of the more kind-hearted people around. You are unusually intuitive, and you probably understand yourself, as well as others. That also means you're a good mediator — though you may prefer to spend more time on your own than most.

You are better equipped than many to steer your life in the right direction. Understanding more about the components of your personality will reveal unique information that even people like you might not realize. And the better you know yourself, the more confident you'll be making decisions that affect your life."

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Free Jung + Enneagram Personality Test (102 questions)


Introverted (I) 57.5% Extroverted (E) 42.5%
Sensing (S) 50% Intuitive (N) 50%
Thinking (T) 77.14% Feeling (F) 22.86%
Judging (J) 60.61% Perceiving (P) 39.39%

Your type is: INTJ

INTJ - "Mastermind". Introverted intellectual with a preference for finding certainty. A builder of systems and the applier of theoretical models. 2.1% of total population.

Enneagram Test Results

The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...

Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||||| 63%
Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||||| 56%
Type 3 Image Awareness |||||||||| 33%
Type 4 Sensitivity |||||||||||| 50%
Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||||||||| 73%
Type 6 Anxiety |||||||||||||||| 63%
Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||||||||| 70%
Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||| 46%
Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||||| 60%

type score type behavior motivation
5 22 I must be knowledgable and independent to be happy.
7 21 I must be high and entertained to be happy.
1 19 I must be perfect and good to be happy.
6 19 I must be secure and safe to be happy.
9 18 I must be peaceful and easy to get along with to be happy.


You scored as Type 5

Your variant is self pres


Global Advanced Personality Test (126 questions)

Advanced Global Personality Test Results

Extraversion |||||||||||||| 60%
Stability |||||||||||||| 60%
Orderliness |||||||||||||||||| 76%
Accommodation |||||||||||| 43%
Interdependence |||||||||||||||||| 76%
Intellectual |||||||||||||||||||| 90%
Mystical |||||||||| 36%
Artistic |||||| 30%
Religious |||||||||||| 43%
Hedonism || 10%
Materialism |||||||||||||||| 70%
Narcissism |||||||||||| 43%
Adventurousness |||||||||||||||| 63%
Work ethic |||||||||||||||| 63%
Self absorbed |||||| 23%
Conflict seeking |||||||||| 36%
Need to dominate |||||| 30%

Romantic |||||||||||| 50%
Avoidant |||||||||||||| 56%
Anti-authority |||||||||||||||| 63%
Wealth |||||||||||| 43%
Dependency |||||||||| 36%
Change averse |||||||||||||| 56%
Cautiousness |||||||||||||||| 63%
Individuality |||||||||||||| 56%
Sexuality |||||| 23%
Peter pan complex |||||| 30%
Physical security |||||||||||||||||| 76%
Physical fitness |||||||||||| 44%
Histrionic |||||||||||| 50%
Paranoia |||||||||||||||| 63%
Vanity |||| 16%
Hypersensitivity |||||||||||| 43%
Indie |||||||||||||| 51%

Stability results were moderately high which suggests you are relaxed, calm, secure, and optimistic.

Orderliness results were high which suggests you are overly organized, reliable, neat, and hard working at the expense too often of flexibility, efficiency, spontaneity, and fun.

Extraversion results were moderately high which suggests you are, at times, overly talkative, outgoing, sociable and interacting at the expense of developing your own individual interests and internally based identity.

[Terumoto]

All I'm going to say is that I have quite a large smile on my face.

[MyBrainHurts]

Anyone have any usefull feedback?

[NotesMaeve]

Well, your business partner has a lot of self-control. By now, I'd have bashed your head in with a rock while screaming. He's your business partner. He tried to take you out. You responded by being, well, er, obnoxious. Just chill out and enjoy the sport or whatever you do with him, or stop hanging out with him.

Look, some people are embarrassing to hang out with. If he's embarrassed to be seen with you, he's not obligated to change. Why should he have to feel humiliation? Because you need a buddy?

[dancer]

Are you sure you do not care about what other people think of you? You seemed to have made significant effort to prove to your client/partner that he is a jerk and is totally wrong about you. I read your first post and skimmed the 2nd, but did not really understand why you are so upset.

Also, a bit worried about what that email has done to your relationship with your client/partner. I suggest that you do not send it and next time you get upset with someone wait until you have calmed down before discussing the issue with them.

[Rose of Cairo]

So you're not a judgemental person, that's why you want us to judge that guy?

Honestly, I don't understand what the problem is. I don't find what you said about salad upsetting. Since you did not tell us what he exactly criticized about you, I can't make any meaningful comment. I don't understand why you got so angry either. What I see is that you're judging him quite harshly and that you care A LOT about what others think and that you're trying to prove that you're right. I wonder why. But this email is absolutely inappropriate! He's your business partner, not your lover. I hope you did not send that to him.

Maybe it would make sense to get some professional support to help you deal with this situation? It looks like it's really affecting you and that you're suffering because of that.

[MyBrainHurts]

Well, your business partner has a lot of self-control. By now, I'd have bashed your head in with a rock while screaming. He's your business partner. He tried to take you out. You responded by being, well, er, obnoxious. Just chill out and enjoy the sport or whatever you do with him, or stop hanging out with him.

Look, some people are embarrassing to hang out with. If he's embarrassed to be seen with you, he's not obligated to change. Why should he have to feel humiliation? Because you need a buddy?

First off I don't really understand how I come off as obnoxious when In truth I only said a few sentences the whole time. I didnt ramle on and on about something. I may add more than what is nesseccary but Im not an over talkative person. I did enjoy myself I didnt realize there was an issue intil after the fact.

I actually dont "need" a buddy. I have plenty of friends the like and respect me and when and if I say something or add something that is not needed they laugh at me or let me know in some way that I am doing or saying something wrong.

The "old" me would not even have engaged in a conversation in the first place because in all honesty I find the whole job of talking to someone I don't know a chore since I don't feel the need get to know everyone I meet.

On the last part I agree with you, if hes going to judge everything I say and do and be humiliated I don't want to hang out with him in the first place. I would much rather go out with like minded people that have something interesting to say in the first place beyond useless information that no one really cares about or has no real "learning" value to it.

[MyBrainHurts]

So you're not a judgemental person, that's why you want us to judge that guy?

Honestly, I don't understand what the problem is. I don't find what you said about salad upsetting. Since you did not tell us what he exactly criticized about you, I can't make any meaningful comment. I don't understand why you got so angry either. What I see is that you're judging him quite harshly and that you care A LOT about what others think and that you're trying to prove that you're right. I wonder why. But this email is absolutely inappropriate! He's your business partner, not your lover. I hope you did not send that to him.

Maybe it would make sense to get some professional support to help you deal with this situation? It looks like it's really affecting you and that you're suffering because of that.

Im not asking you to judge him as a person, you obviously cant do that because you have not met him or known him personally for a long time and even then you aren't the almighty.

He criticizes almost every "conversation" I engage in and makes it seem like there is something "wrong" with me. I don't feel that there is anything wrong with me. Its not like I was criticized once but repeatedly.

I'm to the point to where I don't really care if we do hang out anyway, though I would like to be friends with him. I guess the only real solution is to just not speak when im with him and near other people. But if that is the case I would rather not be there. I would rather go with someone who is more "easy going" like myself that is not afraid to express them selfs or say what the have to say. It makes it allot easier on me because I am not good at reading people or guessing what they are thinking.

Technically on the same token I could criticize almost every aspect of a meaningless small talk conversations that is a blatant waste of time and breath, but people wouldn't like me if I did that now would they.

[MyBrainHurts]

I have been reading other posts seeing if there are things I can learn from people who are trying to develop social skills that are "like me".

Here is a post that goes along with this discussion.

Basicly he says that people think im a loser when I try to engage in small talk because I don't do it correctly or in the manner he prefers and that is what he contantly critizes me about. I dont care that much what other people think of me but I do not want people to "automaticly" think im a loser without giving me a chance to show them who I am beyond the useless small talk.

Basicly he says that people think Im a loser because of how I attempt to engage in small talk and sometimes add more than what should be said.

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Robert makes a great point.

Be careful of self-development. There are times when my husband is listening in on something I am studying and he'll shake his head and say "This stuff is for total losers? Why are you listening to this?"

My point to him is that I have never had trouble discerning between what I need to learn and what I already know. I can separate the wheat from the chafe with no problems. However, some people in SD world head into an area of study needing help with something specific and by the time they leave, they have developed the idea that there are a million things wrong with them. These problems are often projections of other people's own dysfunctions. Don't take them upon yourself by accident. Or grow them into monsters when they really only started out as fleas.

I've lived most of my life as a shy person. I made drastic changes like divorcing my first husband, getting myself in shape, moving to a new state, meeting a man more suitable to me and opening myself up to the idea that fear of rejection is really only fear of rejecting MYSELF, in disguise. I find it impossible to be shy any longer.

This reminds me of myself

If you want to be more outgoing, you need to MODEL people who are more outgoing, not necessarily hang out with people who are more outgoing.

Jennifer

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by MyBrainHurts

Basicly he says that people think im a loser when I try to engage in small talk because I don't do it correctly or in the manner he prefers and that is what he contantly critizes me about. I dont care that much what other people think of me but I do not want people to "automaticly" think im a loser without giving me a chance to show them who I am beyond the useless small talk.

Get over it.

There will always be people who think you are a loser, no matter what you do or how cool you really are. This is true for every single one of us. Doesn't matter if you are John Doe or Tom Hanks.

You can spend your days worrying about that or you can enjoy life with the people who don't think you are a loser.

Your choice.

[MyBrainHurts]

Get over it.

There will always be people who think you are a loser, no matter what you do or how cool you really are. This is true for every single one of us. Doesn't matter if you are John Doe or Tom Hanks.

You can spend your days worrying about that or you can enjoy life with the people who don't think you are a loser.

Your choice.

I was already "over it" before I made this post. If and when I get angry its only for a very short period of time. I learned along time ago to forgive people including myself, hatred only breeds more hatred and the same for anger.

I only posted this because I honestly want to learn something or perhaps a better way to handle this situation if it happens again. I am after all trying to improve myself and its not always possible with ones own mental perceptions.
It helps me to understand things from different angles before I make decisions on how to mold and improve my own personality.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by MyBrainHurts

I was already "over it" before I made this post.

Sorry to be blunt, but you didn't come across as being over it.

I only posted this because I honestly want to learn something or perhaps a better way to handle this situation if it happens again. I am after all trying to improve myself and its not always possible with ones own mental perceptions. It helps me to understand things from different angles before I make decisions on how to mold and improve my own personality.

Fair enough. Here are a few words for you to ponder over: You don't gain respect by sending lenghty e-mails that scream "respect me damnit!" You gain respect by being and acting respectable. Save the lengthy rants for your diary - that's what it is for.

[Terumoto]

Originally Posted by MyBrainHurts

I would rather go with someone who is more "easy going" like myself

Well you certainly do sound like a charming and laid back person to be with, who is non-judgmental, easy going, and just a whole lot of fun in general.

Maybe you should just hang around with different, less critical/judgmental people, rather than that terrible person who you are making out to be the worst scum humankind has ever seen.

By the way, what exactly did he say to you that made you so upset? You never really mentioned it, so nobody who reads your posts has any idea what is actually going on. I'd love to get your friend on here to hear his side of the story.

[Leki]

You said that you don't care about what people think about you. So I would suggest that you continue doing that and not make this an issue. It is not easy changing your life and there is always going to be people that are negative and question everything that you do. Here are some advices:

Care about people and stop caring about what they think of you.
What people think about you is none of your business.

[MyBrainHurts]

Well you certainly do sound like a charming and laid back person to be with, who is non-judgmental, easy going, and just a whole lot of fun in general.

Maybe you should just hang around with different, less critical/judgmental people, rather than that terrible person who you are making out to be the worst scum humankind has ever seen.

By the way, what exactly did he say to you that made you so upset? You never really mentioned it, so nobody who reads your posts has any idea what is actually going on. I'd love to get your friend on here to hear his side of the story.

Its not what he said its the principle of constantly being harassed about what I say. Why cant we just hang out and him not judge everything i say, why not let the people im actually talking to be the judge of the conversation. He just doesn't understand this concept.

I think in principles and concepts it is how I have trained my mind since I was young.

I guess in the end I would like to hang out with him and not be harassed and criticized because we do have fun together from my perspective.

[Terumoto]

Originally Posted by MyBrainHurts

Its not what he said its the principle of constantly being harassed about what I say. Why cant we just hang out and him not judge everything i say, why not let the people im actually talking to be the judge of the conversation. He just doesn't understand this concept.

I think in principles and concepts it is how I have trained my mind since I was young.

I guess in the end I would like to hang out with him and not be harassed and criticized because we do have fun together from my perspective.

Is this guy telepathic? Surely, he must open his mouth and speak when he is "harassing" you, and him doing that seems to be the main, no, the only issue you've talked about. It is about what he said.

I've asked before, and I'll ask again: What did he say that upset you so much?

[MyBrainHurts]

Instead of offering advice on how to start a conversation you harass me about and tell me that " i can go by myself next time"

Anyway perhaps it is that I don't care about what people I don't know think about me but do care about what the people that I interact with on a daily basis think (because it my desire to be easy to get along with) which is hard to do if they think negatively of me.

[Terumoto]

I got the "you can go by yourself next time" part, but what about the harassment?

When he was harassing you, how was he doing it? What did he say to you after you were making small talk with those people?

And what reasons did he give for saying these things?

[MyBrainHurts]

I got the "you can go by yourself next time" part, but what about the harassment?

When he was harassing you, how was he doing it? What did he say to you after you were making small talk with those people?

And what reasons did he give for saying these things?

He said in critical tone that people think im a loser because of what I said about the salad part (" No body cares if you can make a salad, Nobody cares that you had verizon before you got a cingular phone.) People think you are a loser because you say those things.

I think im just going to blow it off and say "whatever" to the whole ordeal and just hang out with people who are no so critical. I guess sometimes you just need to give up and throw in the towel ;P.

EDIT:
The difference between me and him is I try to understand who people are and he tries to judge who people are the word loser is such a judgment. I think we may always clash for this reason.

[Terumoto]

Originally Posted by MyBrainHurts

He said in critical tone that people think im a loser because of what I said about the salad part (" No body cares if you can make a salad, Nobody cares that you had verizon before you got a cingular phone.) People think you are a loser because you say those things.

I think im just going to blow it off and say "whatever" to the whole ordeal and just hang out with people who are no so critical. I guess sometimes you just need to give up and throw in the towel ;P.

EDIT:
The difference between me and him is I try to understand who people are and he tries to judge who people are the word loser is such a judgment. I think we may always clash for this reason.

I'm going to be honest with you, so just know that this is simply my opinion of a situation I know barely anything about, you don't need to take it to heart.

I think that it was probably wrong of him to say that in such a direct way, but there is some truth to his statement. Your small talk was harmless, and well-intentioned as far as I know, but stuff like that might give off a weird impression to others. If you want to make new friend with chit-chat, it's better to talk about them rather than yourself. Otherwise, you'll appear self-centered and unpleasant.

From everything you've been saying, you come across as a very unappealing person to me. It's as if you talk yourself up to reassure yourself that you are the better person in this ordeal, and that your friend is horrible and judgmental. You tell us about how wonderful you are, and all the great things that you do and why you do them, but in my eyes your tone is a tone of angst and struggle for superiority. You even came to this forum to get reassurance from other people about being correct, and it seemed like you were leading us on so that we would say "yeah, you really are such a wonderful person, and that friend of yours, wow, what a judgmental, critical, sorry excuse for a human being he is."

Well, to you I say lighten up. I don't blame your friend for telling you to go by yourself next time, I wouldn't want to spend time with you either. I think that you have an enormous ego, and your friend put a little hole in it with his remark, and now you're trying to blow it up again with a whole lot of hot air.

Remember, I don't know much about you, or much about anything really, these are just my impressions from this thread.

[emeraldbaby]

your business associate may have stepped over the line, but I think you'll find that, ultimately, it is easier to change one's perception of others, and how one reacts and deals with a situation, than it is to change another person.

there's a nice quote i heard from somewhere: "look at how hard it is to change yourself, then you'd know how hard it is to change another person".

it's not as if everyone's saying your friend's a wonderful person, it's just that no one owes you anything, you're the one who decides what you want to feel and how you respond to a given stimulus.

and so what if he's a bit blunt? there will always be people like that, and people much worse than that. Do you like the idea of having to justify yourself to others every time somebody pisses you off?

yes i can imagine being annoyed by unsolicited criticism, but i like to think of a response that's 'skillful' (in Buddhist parlance, something that generates positive outcome), rather than a response that's 'justified', or 'fair', i.e. 'protects my ego'.

and i'm not sure why you say you're not judgmental when the thread is titled "you be the judge". I wouldn't worry too much about that though, most people are judgmental based on their own values/belief system. Your friend judged you, you judge him back, and want us to take sides. Why don't you find the set of values/beliefs that would help you go through life being good to yourself, and to take any perceived negativity in stride?

best of luck

eb

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by MyBrainHurts

First off I don't really understand how I come off as obnoxious when In truth I only said a few sentences the whole time. I didnt ramle on and on about something. I may add more than what is nesseccary but Im not an over talkative person. I did enjoy myself I didnt realize there was an issue intil after the fact.

You're bitching someone didn't like you. So what? Someone didn't like you. Sometimes, people don't like me. It's not a big thing.

Your email is just vexing. It smacks of, "You're trying to change me, you jerk!" when really, dude just wanted you to be less annoying.

Originally Posted by MyBrainHurts

I actually dont "need" a buddy. I have plenty of friends the like and respect me and when and if I say something or add something that is not needed they laugh at me or let me know in some way that I am doing or saying something wrong.

Then let him dislike you.

[jaamkie]

Hey,
I didn't quite read all of the post or commentary but I did skim it; and the replies seemed a little harsh, so I'm sorry (though do learn from it what annoys your readers). I understand you probably aren't posting because of the individual incident so much as because it is a pattern in your life that you'd like to understand better/change.

I'm similarly somewhat socially awkward, and I have a cousin who is similarly concerned with appearances and easily embarassed. Ever since we were children, when we would go out in public she would scold me for eating too fast and loudly, for making random comments, for dressing oddly, for not being friendly enough, for bringing a book to read when I wasn't interested in socializing... I used to get upset with the criticism, partially because I knew it was true but I was frustrated with trying to change it and partially because I thought she should chill and stop judging me.

I've since realized that the problem wasn't entirely either one of us, but is the interaction between someone socially awkward/introverted and someone with self-esteem issues and a huge fear of embarressement. I also realized that I couldn't change her by repeatedly insisting that superficial things don't matter, but I could try to change/moderate my weirdness when around her, learn to ignore the comments and her embarassment, and/or spend less time with her especially in public settings where she would get embarressed. When I eat out with her I do make a conscious effort to eat slowly and quietly, I ask her opinion on clothes before we go to big events, I keep quiet but smile a lot and ask a few questions, etc so she can be more comfortable; I am more confident in myself- that I'm not perfect but there are a lot of great things about me, that there are many people in the world who don't think I'm socially awkward at all- so I don't take her criticism personally, but do usually apologize "sorry for embarrassing you" if I think I did do something a little odd; and I try to spend time with her in quieter situations and among friends where she is more comfortable rather than in public, meeting new people, where she will be most easily embarrassed. Maybe some of this makes sense and would apply in your situation as well?

[MyBrainHurts]

Hey,
I didn't quite read all of the post or commentary but I did skim it; and the replies seemed a little harsh, so I'm sorry (though do learn from it what annoys your readers). I understand you probably aren't posting because of the individual incident so much as because it is a pattern in your life that you'd like to understand better/change.

I'm similarly somewhat socially awkward, and I have a cousin who is similarly concerned with appearances and easily embarassed. Ever since we were children, when we would go out in public she would scold me for eating too fast and loudly, for making random comments, for dressing oddly, for not being friendly enough, for bringing a book to read when I wasn't interested in socializing... I used to get upset with the criticism, partially because I knew it was true but I was frustrated with trying to change it and partially because I thought she should chill and stop judging me.

I've since realized that the problem wasn't entirely either one of us, but is the interaction between someone socially awkward/introverted and someone with self-esteem issues and a huge fear of embarressement. I also realized that I couldn't change her by repeatedly insisting that superficial things don't matter, but I could try to change/moderate my weirdness when around her, learn to ignore the comments and her embarassment, and/or spend less time with her especially in public settings where she would get embarressed. When I eat out with her I do make a conscious effort to eat slowly and quietly, I ask her opinion on clothes before we go to big events, I keep quiet but smile a lot and ask a few questions, etc so she can be more comfortable; I am more confident in myself- that I'm not perfect but there are a lot of great things about me, that there are many people in the world who don't think I'm socially awkward at all- so I don't take her criticism personally, but do usually apologize "sorry for embarrassing you" if I think I did do something a little odd; and I try to spend time with her in quieter situations and among friends where she is more comfortable rather than in public, meeting new people, where she will be most easily embarrassed. Maybe some of this makes sense and would apply in your situation as well?

Yah, this is very similar to my situation. I will give it a try I just don't like changing who I am or my principles for someone else's personal gratification.

I'm going to mention a few more things that I don't understand.

Earlier today he said that "smoking is cool" and we got into a long argument over it because in my view since I was a smoker for 6 years and quit 3 years ago, someone who believes "smoking is cool" has a major lack of wisdom. I eventually gave up and told him to quit talking to me LOL.

Is "smoking" really "cool" or do people who think smoking is "cool" lack wisdom and experience. (because I can write a book on why I quit smoking).

Another time we were talking about wall mart for some odd reason and he mentioned that everyone who works at wall mart is stupid just because of the fact that they work there. From my perspective you cant really judge someone just because they work somewhere at a certain time, I tried to explain that allot of them may be in between jobs, in college or it just fits there needs at the time he just doesn't get it.

Pretty much every time he makes a judgment of someone i just want to.... well bad thoughts come time mind.

I've decided its just best not to talk to him or try to ignore his judgments. Which can be abit difficult for me not to respond because of the way I am I guess, not responding is very difficult.

My analysis is: near complete lack of wisdom.

PS:
I work with him everyother day in the same room so I have to at least "hear" what he is saying, I can't just go somewhere else lol.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by MyBrainHurts

My analysis is: near complete lack of wisdom.

Funny how you accuse him of being too judgmental and then turn all judgmental on him.

His judgments can't spark a flame unless you add fuel to the fire.

Stop adding the fuel.

[Rose of Cairo]

MyBrainHurts (funny nickname, why does your brain hurt?),

You're analyzing yourself and people around you quite a lot. So you diagnosed this guy with a major lack of wisdom, with superficiality, with saying useless and uninteresting things, and some other illnesses. You also diagnosed very extroverted people with being judgemental and shallow.

He for his part diagnosed you with a major lack of social skills. Because of that, and probably based on some social fears of his, he doesn't want to spend time socializing with you and other people at the same time. So far so good.

Now you have to realize that your diagnosis, which you call analysis, and his diagnosis, which you call judgemental harassing, is the same thing. You're obsessed with wanting to be right and telling him how wrong he is, that's harassing him just as judgementally as he does harass you.

I wonder why you want to be right so badly. You seem to think that there is a right and a wrong. I don't agree. You think people who think that smoking is cool have a major lack of wisdom, because you've thought about that a lot. Fine. Well now imagine I think that eating meat is having a major lack of wisdom, because I've thought about that a lot, and you didn't. You don't agree? Oh, now we're having a problem. Who's right?

What you think about him is not the truth. It's nothing more than your opinion based on your values. What he thinks about you is not the truth either. It's nothing more than his opinion based on his values. There is nothing to be hurt or to fight about.

I understand that you feel unjustly treated. You're making a lot of efforts to socialize, and all you get is being told how bad you are. That's very frustrating. Maybe you just want him to aknowledge your efforts, or to be kind to you, or to like you? I don't know. But why is it such a problem for you that some guy (that you find has so many bad attributes anyway) doesn't honor you?

I'm going to be very direct: I think that you have a major lack of social skills indeed. From what I've read so far, you really seem to have a problem in that area. However, the reason is not your introversion. I'm a strongly introverted person, but I don't lack social skills. (Or I lack them so much that I don't even notice it )

I don't know what the reason is in your case. Unfortunately, I can't even explain what the problem exactly is. It's just that you say things that are kind of inappropriate, or behave in a way that is strange. That's nothing to freak out about, it's just... unusual. I hope you're not offended now, I'm really trying to help you, and you seem to want some feedback.

I guess this is an important problem for you. You wrote that you want to understand it better and improve yourself, I find that very courageous. Maybe we can help you here

I didn't find it anymore, but if I remember correctly, you said that you have some problems with guessing what someone feels when you look at their face, is that correct? That gave me an idea: maybe you have a high AQ? (Autism Quotient) That wouldn't mean that you're an autist, my AQ is 45 (that's very high), and I'm not an autist. But it would explain a lot of your problems with socializing. So since you have a very rational approach on all questions, maybe you could start with checking your AQ?

[MyBrainHurts]

I didn't find it anymore, but if I remember correctly, you said that you have some problems with guessing what someone feels when you look at their face, is that correct? That gave me an idea: maybe you have a high AQ? (Autism Quotient) That wouldn't mean that you're an autist, my AQ is 45 (that's very high), and I'm not an autist. But it would explain a lot of your problems with socializing. So since you have a very rational approach on all questions, maybe you could start with checking your AQ?

I took the test and answered all questions honestly.

I understand that you feel unjustly treated. You're making a lot of efforts to socialize, and all you get is being told how bad you are. That's very frustrating. Maybe you just want him to aknowledge your efforts, or to be kind to you, or to like you? I don't know. But why is it such a problem for you that some guy (that you find has so many bad attributes anyway) doesn't honor you?

I think that my problem is that I am unable to understand his reasoning or analyze what he says, it seems chaotic. Perhaps when I listen to people I am more involved in understanding there reasoning ability and logic and the reason why they are saying what they are saying instead of actually listening or understanding the core of what they are saying, which I eventually get to but am slower to react to if that makes any sense. I guess it makes people feel as if im not listening.

I understand that you feel unjustly treated. You're making a lot of efforts to socialize, and all you get is being told how bad you are. That's very frustrating. Maybe you just want him to acknowledge your efforts, or to be kind to you, or to like you? I don't know. But why is it such a problem for you that some guy (that you find has so many bad attributes anyway) doesn't honor you?

I used to not speak to anyone but only observe and analyze, only reasontly have I made an effort to be in the picture instead of looking at it from various angles.

I'm going to be very direct: I think that you have a major lack of social skills indeed. From what I've read so far, you really seem to have a problem in that area. However, the reason is not your introversion. I'm a strongly introverted person, but I don't lack social skills. (Or I lack them so much that I don't even notice it )

I agree, but it can be difficult to maintain extreme control over my "natural" state of thought for long periods of time, I can manage it in short bursts.

MyBrainHurts (funny nickname, why does your brain hurt?),

Because when I want to stop thinking I cant, the more I try to not think, the more I think about things and the more I try to focus on one thing, the more involved I become in analyzing it from all perspectives and even the concepts that make up the principle or idea.
Sometimes it takes me hours to fall asleep and its extremely irritating and frustrating that I can not slow my mind down when I want it to be slow and calm without the help from external sources. I have to take downers when im having extreme insomnia.

Lets take counting sheep for example, when I think of counting sheep it involves numbers which gets me to thinking about the software that im writing which takes me abstract thinking and analysis. As corny as this may sound to you I am attracted to science fiction and love large dynamic universes such as star trek, babylon 5 and battlestar and often try to create an entire dynamic universe in my mind as a means to falling asleep which has proven more effective than focusing on something simple.

I do have a small fear of sleeping because I have entered lucidity over 100 times at least in my lifetime so far (something that has become a huge study subject) and have experienced things that seem real to me that other people can not even grasp, some of them so terrifying that I woke up in an altered state of mind and took several minutes to realize that I was even awake.

I am so analytical that even in my sleep I often become consciously aware.

What you think about him is not the truth. It's nothing more than your opinion based on your values. What he thinks about you is not the truth either. It's nothing more than his opinion based on his values. There is nothing to be hurt or to fight about.

I do not think negatively of him as some people have drawn that conclusion, I do not think he is an evil person or anything like that. He just does not help me to understand him and I lack the capability to engage him in a way to obtain useful information so that I can understand his reasoning.

[Parthon]

Simply:
You are selfish, care about only yourself, never listen to other people, and think way WAY too much.

I've heard from your responses to other people including those to your work colleague that you are only interested in others in so far as they help you in some way. You have a group of friends that support you in being selfish, and I guess you probably do the same for them. Do you actually care about anyone in your life that can't do something for you?

Onto the thinking: You are walking around the world in a fog, analysing and thinking, instead of dealing with what's really going on. He said something, you related it to something to yourself after you thought about it and said something irrelevant to him, then he chastised you on the way you talk and you took offense, after you thought about it some more. Nothing happens for you, it's always covered by a thought, analysis, opinion or judgement. No wonder your brain hurts.

Now, I say all this not to pass judgement of my own, but to emphasis what everyone else has been saying here, for you to: Stop thinking, Stop judging, and Stop being selfish. In that order.

To stop thinking, the only thing you can do is listen to the thinking. Who is thinking? And who is thinking the thinking? And who is thinking that? Keep trying to find the source of your thoughts, and every time you have a thought, find the source of it. Every time. If you practice you will find the source of your thoughts, and then, like a tap, you can turn them off. Then you can finally live in your life instead of in your head.

Right now you are trapped in your thoughts at the moment, but because the thoughts are everything you have, you can't see the cage that's built around you. The cage is your world and you are stuck. Finding the door of the cage is all that you need to be doing now, and once you find it you will have the freedom from all the worry and the anxiety that you've been looking for.

You can dismiss this, analyse it or argue with it, the only way out is to follow it. Then let us know here how it went.

[MyBrainHurts]

Right now you are trapped in your thoughts at the moment, but because the thoughts are everything you have, you can't see the cage that's built around you. The cage is your world and you are stuck. Finding the door of the cage is all that you need to be doing now, and once you find it you will have the freedom from all the worry and the anxiety that you've been looking for.

I agree with you in the fact that I do feel stuck otherwise I wouldn't have looked outside of myself for answers.

You are selfish, care about only yourself, never listen to other people, and think way WAY too much.

I am not selfish at all, I donate to charity (most children's funds) and help friends and even people I don't know and expect nothing in return. I can make an example of this even today ( a person I just met the other day was telling me that he was in between jobs and needed money to fix his car, so I decided to let him do the brakes on my truck and paid him more than what I would have paid at an automotive shop just to help him out.) I view myself as a compassionate person.

To stop thinking, the only thing you can do is listen to the thinking. Who is thinking? And who is thinking the thinking? And who is thinking that? Keep trying to find the source of your thoughts, and every time you have a thought, find the source of it. Every time. If you practice you will find the source of your thoughts, and then, like a tap, you can turn them off. Then you can finally live in your life instead of in your head.

MyBrainHurts