Married but at risk of being unfaithful

[frajilthunder]

I've been faithfully married for almost 19 years now, and we have a good marriage -- talk easily and openly, good sex life, still get romantic, rarely fight, etc.

But I'm getting tired of monogomy, and the only thing keeping me monogomous is knowing how my infidelity would devistate my wife were she to find out about it. I've got the biggest crush on this woman I work with and I want to sex her up so bad I can taste it. She gives me signals, like hugs when I come back from vacation, her telling me she missed me, teasingly inviting me to run away with her when she's had a bad day, things like that.

My obsession with her ebbs and flows, and it's flowing like hell recently, but I have yet to initiate anything more than some light flirtiness. Still I live with the urge to step up my game everyday. So I'm looking for some smart people on here to give me advice on how to be content with my fragile fidelity.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I am not going to tell you you have to be content with your "fragile fidelity."

Either leave your wife and pursue this relationship or realize it's normal to have these types of feelings and look to the apparently wonderful 19 year relationship with your wife and ask "is it worth giving that up for a roll in the hay?"

I don't believe it's some kind of mandate that people be in monogomous relationships for all eternity, but since it doesn't seem there are any major issues in your marriage, I think your wife at least deserves the curtesy of not being deceived. Not that I think it would be right to behave without integrity even if she were a colossal jerk. Go ahead and pursue a relationship with this other woman, but only after you have divorced your wife. Or alternately discussed and agreed on an open relationship. If you are saying to yourself "but I love my wife, I don't want to leave her, I just want to have some fun too" then to you I say "GROW UP." And if I could reach through this computer screen I would slap you.

Sorry to be harsh, but I feel the attitude you have is really selfish. Just like you are free to feel like I am being a ♥♥♥♥♥.

Good luck and hopefully you will get some more compassionate advice from other posters. My stance on infidelity is that it is unnecessarily cruel (when in a relationship where fidelity is agreed upon). If you want to be with someone else, do it by all means, but don't lie about it.

Edit: Also, what would your reaction be if your found you wife had these types of feelings?

[frajilthunder]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I am not going to tell you you have to be content with your "fragile fidelity."

Either leave your wife and pursue this relationship or realize it's normal to have these types of feelings and look to the apparently wonderful 19 year relationship with your wife and ask "is it worth giving that up for a roll in the hay?"

I don't believe it's some kind of mandate that people be in monogomous relationships for all eternity, but since it doesn't seem there are any major issues in your marriage, I think your wife at least deserves the curtesy of not being deceived. Not that I think it would be right to behave without integrity even if she were a colossal jerk. Go ahead and pursue a relationship with this other woman, but only after you have divorced your wife. Or alternately discussed and agreed on an open relationship. If you are saying to yourself "but I love my wife, I don't want to leave her, I just want to have some fun too" then to you I say "GROW UP." And if I could reach through this computer screen I would slap you.

Sorry to be harsh, but I feel the attitude you have is really selfish. Just like you are free to feel like I am being a ♥♥♥♥♥.

Good luck and hopefully you will get some more compassionate advice from other posters. My stance on infidelity is that it is unnecessarily cruel (when in a relationship where fidelity is agreed upon). If you want to be with someone else, do it by all means, but don't lie about it.

Thanks for your candor, a_t_c. I know it's a selfish attitude, but it's the only one I have right now. "but I love my wife, I don't want to leave her, I just want to have some fun too" is exactly where I'm at, and I'd love to grow out of it but the more I deny my desire the more persistant it gets.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I really hope you do get some less confrontational advice here, in fact I am sure you will. And after I say what I am about to say I will gladly bow out of the conversation if you'd like.

I want you to know I can sympathize with what you are feeling, but the part where you said "if she found out" is what bothers me. Please whatever you do don't lie to your wife. I know we don't owe anything to anyone, but I think that it's the least you can do for someone who's shared a life with you, especially one that seems to have been really great.

I was only eight years old when you and your wife got married, so I can't pretend I have the experience to even say this to you, but sometimes being a grown up means not doing something just because you feel like it. The reason considering being with this other woman is so enticing is because it's taboo. That's what I think at least - new and different. What would the reality be if you left your wife for her? The flirtiness that goes on in offices does not have anything to do with the realities of day to day life with someone. Like you said, you still love your wife and don't want to leave her. So what is this really about? What is it you gain by having sex with someone outside your marriage?

Have you considered discussing your feelings with your wife? And since I think you were responding when I was editing my last post, what would your reaction be if you found your wife was having feelings like this, to the extent she was flirting with a coworker on more than just a friendly level?

[Angela]

So, fraj, you want what you want (your cake and eating it, too). What are you asking of us here? I think "advice on how to be content" with your dilemma is not exactly what you're really looking for.

You are faced with choices based on your conflicting desires. I think the most basic of these choices is: "Am I going to act with integrity, or not?" Are you going to behave with honor for your wife, either by keeping your word about your marriage vows or by renegotiating them? Or are you going to try to weasel around, sneaking, lying, pretending? Or are you going to remain in limbo, wishing and resenting?

All of the choices you're faced with rest upon that one underlying choice: Do you have integrity, or not?

[Ninja]

If you want to stay faithful, at least don't make things harder on yourself by responding positive to that other womans attention. Be firm and tell her your happily married, and that she should stop flirting. It's not fair to give her false hope anyway.

[Lola]

In addition to the suggestions that you grow up, honor your mutual committment to fidelity or renogiate the terms of your marriage, examine your integrity, and just quit responding to the other woman if you really want to remain faithful---what I'm wondering is----

Originally Posted by frajilthunder

"but I love my wife, I don't want to leave her, I just want to have some fun too" is exactly where I'm at

Any way at all you and your wife could have some (illicit) fun together? What's the chances of the two of you creating a little kinkiness and thrill together?

Other than that, the others pretty much covered it. I'll just add this---If you go through with *sexing up* your co-worker, your wife is not the only one your infidelity will devastate. She can leave. You, on the other hand, are pretty much stuck with you.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Lola

...your wife is not the only one your infidelity will devastate. She can leave. You, on the other hand, are pretty much stuck with you.

Yup, and how about the sexupee? Maybe you should watch "Fatal Attraction" before taking another step!

[Erin Pavlina]

What if your wife posted the same thing you did and you found out? How would you feel?

And the woman at work who knows you're married and is still flirting with you? Wow... nice woman.

If you have an affair and keep it from your wife you're liable to feel guilt and/or shame which are two of the lowest vibrations you can feel.

I agree with other posters in that you should try to get what you're seekign from your wife first and then make your choice.

[Lola]

Originally Posted by Angela

Maybe you should watch "Fatal Attraction" before taking another step!

Excellent suggestion!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

And the woman at work who knows you're married and is still flirting with you? Wow... nice woman.

Althought I believe the fault will lie solely with you if you are to go through with an affair, I have to agree this woman's character is not exactly stellar. She does know you are married, right? (Man, I am really snarky today, I apologize...a little ).

[wolfgang]

It sounds like the OP is not going to do the sexual wandering that is a temptation. He's not looking for reasons not to do this, he's looking for how to alievate the temptation. At least I think that's where the OP is coming from but we haven't seen any replies for clarifying the situation.

What about looking at what the temptation means in a spiritual way?

If you look at the situation as a reflection of your inner self - what is being reflected to you?

What does it mean to be presented with something that looks like something you want that you cant' have?

What are you learning to resist the temptation?

How will that make you stronger?

I don't know the answers to that but would be asking myself those if I was you.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if you have an affair or not for what you can learn from this situation. But the route of an affair will make the lessons much more painful to everyone. But in fact, you have partly gone down the road - it's starting to be an emotional affair, I'd say.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Good points, wolfgang! I like how you've approached the subject.

[frajilthunder]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I really hope you do get some less confrontational advice here, in fact I am sure you will. And after I say what I am about to say I will gladly bow out of the conversation if you'd like.

No need to apologize for being confrontational, it's probably what I need right now, and no need to back out unless it's what you like.

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I want you to know I can sympathize with what you are feeling, but the part where you said "if she found out" is what bothers me. Please whatever you do don't lie to your wife. I know we don't owe anything to anyone, but I think that it's the least you can do for someone who's shared a life with you, especially one that seems to have been really great.

I really don't want to hurt her, and like I said that is what is keeping me on the straight and narrow in my actions if not in my desires. And yeah, I know the honorable thing to do would be to leave her first if i decide to persue this woman, but honestly I don't know if I'm up to doing the honorable thing. Right now I have no intention to act on my feelings for her, but I've flip-flopped a few times on this in the past months.

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I was only eight years old when you and your wife got married, so I can't pretend I have the experience to even say this to you, but sometimes being a grown up means not doing something just because you feel like it. The reason considering being with this other woman is so enticing is because it's taboo. That's what I think at least - new and different. What would the reality be if you left your wife for her? The flirtiness that goes on in offices does not have anything to do with the realities of day to day life with someone. Like you said, you still love your wife and don't want to leave her. So what is this really about? What is it you gain by having sex with someone outside your marriage?

Yeah, the forbidden fruit concept is definately at work here, I realize this intelectually, but it does nothing for me on the emotional level.

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Have you considered discussing your feelings with your wife? And since I think you were responding when I was editing my last post, what would your reaction be if you found your wife was having feelings like this, to the extent she was flirting with a coworker on more than just a friendly level?

Well, here's the rub. She was unfaithful to me about 10 years ago, came clean herself because she realized the story was about to break. I forgave her after awhile and we never really separated. So I'm of two minds. I know exactly how it feels because she put me though it, and I don't want to do the same to her. Then there's the selfish part of me that says turnabout is fair play. And yeah I've considered talking to her about this, but decided it would likely not end well if I did. Hopefully I will be able to in the future.

And sorry for taking so long with the response. I started this out on my lunch hour, but I'm on the clock now and keep getting distracted with work.

[Rose of Cairo]

Well, at risk of getting lapidated...

It's a fact that such situations frequently happen. I think what the OP feels is just normal, because IMO monogamy is totally unnatural in the long term.

Still, frajilthunder, you agreed to be in a monogamous relationship, so now you have to find a solution based on that. It's your decision. Ask yourself what is more compatible with your values. Are you clear about your values?

I don't agree that you have any responsibility for that other woman though. She knows that having an affair with a married man means that he may not leave his wife, and that she's probably going to have a lot of trouble. That's her problem, not yours.

But I don't agree to judge her or give her any fault either. It's frajilthunder's decision. Nobody threatens him with a gun and forces him to have an affair or to flirt with her. What he makes with his relationship is alone his responsibility, no matter how many sexy women are trying to seduce him.

Additionally, as far as he wrote, she's just flirting with him. I don't know how that is in the US, but at least here flirting is no biggie. It doesn't mean that she would be ready to do anything more.

I have no problem with flirting with married men. It's just a game. If that's not ok in their relationship, they don't have to do it, so why should I go around and take some responsibility for other people's relationships? It's none of my business.

[frajilthunder]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

It sounds like the OP is not going to do the sexual wandering that is a temptation. He's not looking for reasons not to do this, he's looking for how to alievate the temptation. At least I think that's where the OP is coming from but we haven't seen any replies for clarifying the situation.

Exactly. I've pretty much decided I'm not going to do this, but I can't talk myself out of wanting to anyway.

Originally Posted by wolfgang

What about looking at what the temptation means in a spiritual way?

If you look at the situation as a reflection of your inner self - what is being reflected to you?

What does it mean to be presented with something that looks like something you want that you cant' have?

What are you learning to resist the temptation?

How will that make you stronger?

I don't know the answers to that but would be asking myself those if I was you.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if you have an affair or not for what you can learn from this situation. But the route of an affair will make the lessons much more painful to everyone. But in fact, you have partly gone down the road - it's starting to be an emotional affair, I'd say.

Thanks for that. I don't have answers for now but that looks like a good direction to take. And yeah, it's like an emotional affair I guess. I feel guilty for letting it get that far, but at the same time it's exiting, like how close can I get to the edge without falling off.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by frajilthunder

She was unfaithful to me about 10 years ago, came clean herself because she realized the story was about to break.

Ah, the plot thickens. Well, that sounds like I am taking this whole situation really lightly which is not what I intend, but really it seems like this probably has more to do with what's going on now than you might think. How fresh is the pain of what happened back then? Is it something you still think about a lot? The feeling that turnabout is fair play will ruin a relationship.

Also, check out what wolfgang wrote. He seemed to get ahold of the fact that you were more looking for understanding and a way to asuage the feelings and desires than anything else. It seems you would prefer to be faithful to your wife and also not feel the way you do about this other woman. That's a tough one. I am not sure I have the answer to how to get rid of the feelings regardless of what you decide to do.

Doing the honorable thing is a matter of choosing to do it or not. You decide if you want to be honorable or not and then follow through accordingly. Being up to it or feeling like it has nothing to do with it, in my opinion.

[frajilthunder]

Originally Posted by Angela

So, fraj, you want what you want (your cake and eating it, too). What are you asking of us here? I think "advice on how to be content" with your dilemma is not exactly what you're really looking for.

You are faced with choices based on your conflicting desires. I think the most basic of these choices is: "Am I going to act with integrity, or not?" Are you going to behave with honor for your wife, either by keeping your word about your marriage vows or by renegotiating them? Or are you going to try to weasel around, sneaking, lying, pretending? Or are you going to remain in limbo, wishing and resenting?

All of the choices you're faced with rest upon that one underlying choice: Do you have integrity, or not?

Well, I obviously don't have total integrity or I would have asked this woman to leave me alone some time ago. But I also don't have a total lack of integrity either, or things would have progressed much further by now. So for now I'm in limbo, trying to lean toward integrity, and failing.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by frajilthunder

And yeah, it's like an emotional affair I guess. I feel guilty for letting it get that far, but at the same time it's exiting, like how close can I get to the edge without falling off.

That's not a gues, it's true.

That excitement is to be looked at. Some of the excitement is not love or attraction, it's "I'm thinking of getting away with something that can potentially hurt lots of people". It's actually a fear mixed up with the attractions. If there wasn't potential harm in having sex with this other woman it wouldn't be as exciting to think about. It's a bubble to burst that will kill some of the "got to have her" stuff, perhaps.

[Angela]

Fraj, having integrity is like being pregnant -- you either are or you aren't.

In this case, integrity is more than just avoiding this woman or boning her. Integrity means keeping your word, or renegotiating in good faith. It means being straight with people -- it doesn't sound like you've been straight with your wife, and maybe not with the Other Woman, either.

You say you're failing in your attempt to lean towards integrity -- what does that mean?

By the way, I'm not telling you that you have to or even "should" behave with integrity. It is a choice; one that in my experience, makes life work much better; but it's your personal choice to make and I'm not judging you, whatever you choose. I realize you're in a tough spot.

[frajilthunder]

Originally Posted by Angela

Fraj, having integrity is like being pregnant -- you either are or you aren't.

In this case, integrity is more than just avoiding this woman or boning her. Integrity means keeping your word, or renegotiating in good faith. It means being straight with people -- it doesn't sound like you've been straight with your wife, and maybe not with the Other Woman, either.

You say you're failing in your attempt to lean towards integrity -- what does that mean?

By the way, I'm not telling you that you have to or even "should" behave with integrity. It is a choice; one that in my experience, makes life work much better; but it's your personal choice to make and I'm not judging you, whatever you choose. I realize you're in a tough spot.

Well if it's all or nothing I'm obviously not acting with integrity, as I know what a person of integrity would do, and so far I'm unwilling to do it. I continue to have feelings for this woman, lust being a big part of my feelings but not the totality of them. I lack the resolve to ignore these feelings, I've tried in the past to ignore them and have failed.

[Angela]

Yeah, ignoring feelings (or trying to) doesn't do much, does it. They just keep popping up like weeds through the cracks in the sidewalk.

If I were you, I'd work with a therapist or a trusted friend to find out what's missing that would make a difference for you, and to generate that missing quality. Once you know what that thing is, it will be easier to see what inspired action you could take to make it real in the world.

And if you want to figure it out in two weekends: do the Landmark Forum and the Advanced Course. Very effective stuff.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

It seems to me that ignoring the feelings is not going to do you any good. Like it's been said, you just need to decide what action you will take and then do that. If your decision is to act with honor and integrity toward your wife then either 1) divorce her and do whatever you want with the other woman or 2) decide to stay with your wife and honor that commitment by informing the other woman that there will be no further flirtatious contact, training yourself to not give focus to the feelings and if necessary taking away the opportunity to have contact with the other woman.

You have stated you are unwilling to act with integrity. That's a choice. Yes, what you are going through is hard, but I think it's mostly a matter of making a decision. The feelings will not magically disappear, but you will have a guide to what behavior and actions you want to take.

If what you want is to get rid of the feelings because you don't want to act on them to the detriment of your marriage, I think that it's possible that the feelings would subside much more easily if you resolved that there was no chance of anything happening with the other woman and then proceded to cut off contact with her. The current nature of your relationship with her is fueling the feelings.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by frajilthunder

Well if it's all or nothing I'm obviously not acting with integrity, as I know what a person of integrity would do, and so far I'm unwilling to do it. I continue to have feelings for this woman, lust being a big part of my feelings but not the totality of them. I lack the resolve to ignore these feelings, I've tried in the past to ignore them and have failed.

Maybe you have to find a way to train yourself to be unattracted to this woman. Make up sour grape statements about her, instead of induldging the fantasy. Where you don't really know about her in certain ways - make sure you fill in those gaps with the most yucky thing you can think of. And stay away from filling in the unknown gaps with "wow that would be great" stuff.

If you hear your head glorifying - remind yourself often that it would be hell to start something more with her.

[Honeywith4bees]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Maybe you have to find a way to train yourself to be unattracted to this woman. Make up sour grape statements about her, instead of induldging the fantasy. Where you don't really know about her in certain ways - make sure you fill in those gaps with the most yucky thing you can think of. And stay away from filling in the unknown gaps with "wow that would be great" stuff.

If you hear your head glorifying - remind yourself often that it would be hell to start something more with her.

Thats what I was thinking too. There is a name for that kind of psychological action, I forget what it is though. Every time that you start to indulge in fantasies about having sex with this woman, stop yourself and imagine how your wife would look if she walked in on you. Or how your children (if you have any) would deal with having too take sides in a divorce. Or how it would feel to have to continue seeing this woman at work every day if the affair didn't work.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

You could go all old-school and put a rubber band around your wrist which you proceed to snap any time you think about her.

[frajilthunder]

Thanks for the responses all, quality advice. Honeyw/4bs, cognitive dissonance (sp?), is that the term you're looking for? Whatever it's called, I've started that today; looking for unattractive traits and trying to focus on them, and on consequences whenever she comes to mind. I get the feeling I'm treating the symptoms rather than the disease, but maybe that has to come first.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by frajilthunder

Thanks for the responses all, quality advice. Honeyw/4bs, cognitive dissonance (sp?), is that the term you're looking for? Whatever it's called, I've started that today; looking for unattractive traits and trying to focus on them, and on consequences whenever she comes to mind. I get the feeling I'm treating the symptoms rather than the disease, but maybe that has to come first.

Maybe it's behaviour modification or negative reinforcement.

Cognitive dissonance is when you have conflicting thoughts, I think.

Good on you to "treat the symptoms". I hope doing what you are doing can have less cognitive dissonance because it's a form of deciding keep yourself and life more whole. The disease is not recognizing the fracturing that is part of the temptation.

[DayInTheLife]

I lack the resolve to ignore these feelings, I've tried in the past to ignore them and have failed.

Well, I obviously don't have total integrity or I would have asked this woman to leave me alone some time ago. But I also don't have a total lack of integrity either, or things would have progressed much further by now. So for now I'm in limbo, trying to lean toward integrity, and failing.

And yeah, I know the honorable thing to do would be to leave her first if i decide to persue this woman, but honestly I don't know if I'm up to doing the honorable thing.

It sounds to me like you're trying to rationalize cheating by pinning responsibility for your actions on some sort of character flaw. To declare some sort of limitation in yourself ("I lack the resolve...") is to shirk responsibility.

You are basically saying you lack the ability to do the right thing. That's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. You are more than capable.

Then there's the selfish part of me that says turnabout is fair play.

Your wife's prior indescretions are not relevant here. They do not in any way justify your making a decision to cheat. You said you forgave your wife. Obviously you have not. Think about what it will take to let that go for real. Ask yourself if it is even possible.

Question: What do you expect would be the result of you going through with this? My guess is you'd end up with two things: 1) exciting sex for a while, and 2) a destroyed or compromised marriage

Do you disagree?

[wolfgang]

Then there's the selfish part of me that says turnabout is fair play.

I thought if that is in there then the affair that your wife had is still effecting the marraige - that it has not been cleared out really.