A Letter to a Woman I Love

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Angela

It's much easier and more fun to remember all the times it worked out very well!
(many, many)

I meant jump right in with proclamations of undying love and devotion after only kissing her a few times.

But again, it just may work out!

And with that---I'll give you the last word.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by cylon

I was basically asking examples of men putting pressure on you too soon, and what the reaction was...

This guy in my example didn't put any pressure on me too soon. The reason for my no was that there wasn't enough sexual attraction on my side. That has nothing to do with too soon or not too soon.

I think the point is not putting pressure on the girl too soon or not too soon, but putting pressure on the girl in the first place. When I have a feeling that the guy is needy, that he wants a relationship, any relationship, but not necessarily exactly me, or that he requests, demands something in return for his love, or that he's being manipulative or such things, then, yes, he would get banned. Maybe that's why it didn't work for you, not because it was too soon?

That's not what the OP is doing though. I cannot feel any pressure in his letter. He's just expressing what he feels, nothing more, nothing less. That's great.

When I tell a guy that I love him, that doesn't mean that I want him to be my bf or to have sex with me or to do anything either. It just means that I love him, and there's no need to react to that statement.

[Lola]

Originally Posted by Angela

He's just saying how her existence has made his life better.

And we LOVE, LOVE, LOVE hearing that!

I do agree, cylon, that there IS a fine line between making declarations of love too soon and holding off too long.

heh - SlyApplePie is going to flip when he logs back in and sees where this thread has gone!

[cylon]

SlyApplePie--I'll leave it at this: Do what feels RIGHT to you (no matter what it is), because you KNOW it's the right thing to do.

I need a drink.

[Lola]

Originally Posted by cylon

I need a drink.

It's five o'clock somewhere...

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by cylon

SlyApplePie--I'll leave it at this: Do what feels RIGHT to you (no matter what it is), because you KNOW it's the right thing to do.

I wholeheartedly agree!

I need a pizza

[Angela]

Maybe he should just buy her a pizza and a drink.

[Rose of Cairo]

yeah, and give us the lovely letter

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

yeah, and give us the lovely letter

Sometimes I feel like part of the Witches of Eastwick here.

[Sly Apple Pie]

Haha, wow. I expected two or three responses to this thread when I posted it. Stunned at where this discussion has gone. Some of the views and perspectives in here are absolutely fascinating, and if this letter achieves nothing else, I at least feel more enlightened for allowing you guys to read it.

I'll not be making any amendments to the letter tonight, because I'm work-tired, and I want to be in a prime state of mind when I do. But thanks again. You guys are awesome. I feel like writing you all letters too now

[Lola]

I will say reading that letter made me feel all warm and tingly - so thanks, sly, for letting us be the vicarious recipients.

Originally Posted by Angela

Sometimes I feel like part of the Witches of Eastwick here.

Better than the Stepford Wives...

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Sly Apple Pie

I feel like writing you all letters too now

That's an excellent idea, you know, you need to practice
But seriously, keep us posted, we're curious!

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Angela

Generating a space of freedom and acceptance, that is, accepting people exactly as they are and exactly as they are not, renders the term, "unrequited love" obsolete. When you're feeling "unrequited love", what you're feeling is the desire to "get" something out of a person -- you want her to "return" your love, or otherwise give you something, and if you don't "get" it, you suffer. Now, if you grant that person the freedom to be exactly as she is, without requiring her to do anything in order for you to be happy, then there's nothing to requit!

I almost get it. I know you are on to something and would rather not have heartache. If you are with someone or wish to be with them - that means you are or going to be building some life parts together. Once that other is gone, those life parts won't exist with this person and you have to search again. It is a loss. It is something to fear or maybe fear is too strong. It's something to gauage so you don't get stuck with a lot of disappointment. It's not that you are trying to get something from someone or depending your happiness on someone - it's simily a loss that would require grieving.

So maybe what you are saying is go for it anyway, assume that everything will work out and don't worry about what it might feel like to have it fall apart.

That doesn't mean you can't think, "god, I really like this woman and would love to give it my best shot to generate a great relationship with her -- maybe even a LTMBR." That would be excitement or enthusiasm, yes? Not fear -- because you wouldn't really be losing anything if it didn't end up exactly as you pictured. Giving each other the freedom to Be, even if it means not fitting your perfect picture -- that's what a great, loving relationship is all about.

What's LTMBR? Of coarse it is good to be enthusiastic and optimistic. Yes I agree holding up your own picture of what you want the other person to fit is not what works. So even if you don't do that, if you don't hold up any expectations you will still feel this desire to be with the other person. This desire is about yourself enjoying the company of the other and looking for ways to connect more and more. Its not about trying to make them do anything that they don't want to do or that you are holding up a picture of them that isn't them. In fact is about discovering what the real picture of them is. Its desiring a connection with someone and seeing it could work with a particular person that then makes you stay going down that road enthusiastically with wondering how far it will go.

If Danger Man and I were to part, I would be grateful to him for having given me the opportunity to find out what really satisfying and fulfilling love is all about, and I would be excited about going out into the world and generating it again with another man. I might be disappointed or sad (it's hard to conjecture) but I don't think I would suffer, or be fearful about the next phase in a life I love.

I would think that if you might be disappointed or sad is something to fear and is a form of attachment.

[Angela]

I think I know what you're saying: that you invest time, energy, and spirit into a relationship, and it would be a loss if that all went down the drain. If you had a wonderful two year relationship with a woman, maybe bought a home together, and she died suddenly, do you think it would not have been worth all you put into it? Why would that be different if she suddenly left you for another man? What I'm saying is, if you are really present to a life you're in love with, it's life itself that gives you satisfaction, fulfillment, and joy, completely without regard to the actions of others, not even your closest romantic partner.

What's LTMBR?

Loving Long Term Mutually Beneficial Relationship. (I guess is should be LLTMBR.) I just get weary of typing that whole thing out.

I would think that if you might be disappointed or sad is something to fear and is a form of attachment.

You might be right! And the key is to remain vigilant about taking 100% responsibility for my own satisfaction and fulfillment. Let's say Danger Man left me for another woman. It's hard to imagine not being disappointed or sad about that. And then I would accept 100% responsibility (I hope I would, anyway!) and remind myself that he is the CEO of his own life, his choices are his own, and he's doing exactly the right thing for himself. As CEO of my own life, I might determine that I need to grieve for awhile before dating again (which I'm quite positive I'd have a blast doing -- dating, not grieving!).

But to live out my relationship in fear that Danger Man might leave me for another woman, or to date other men while holding onto a fear that they might leave me, too, or die, or whatever, and to behave with caution to prevent myself from being hurt by that... well, that would be a choice; it's not mandatory. You're not required to keep carrying old fear or old emotional pain in your life.

For me, living a life I love entails being alert to old fear and pain, seeing them for the ghosts that they are, and surrendering them.

[Sly Apple Pie]

Well guys, the letter wasn't even needed.

After work the other day, she came over mine to exchange christmas wishes and whatnot. I ended up saying almost everything that was written in the letter (almost word for word), she cried a little ( ) and then she well and truly reciprocated those feelings.

Suffice to say, we've had three pretty brilliant days together - hence me not being online to post a follow-up - and she's going to stay over on christmas eve, which is really amazing. I'm still thinking of giving her a letter - a variation on the one in this thread - but I've also bought her a few really nice gifts to go with it.

All in all probably the best christmas in a long while

[Terumoto]

Originally Posted by Sly Apple Pie

Well guys, the letter wasn't even needed.

After work the other day, she came over mine to exchange christmas wishes and whatnot. I ended up saying almost everything that was written in the letter (almost word for word), she cried a little ( ) and then she well and truly reciprocated those feelings.

Suffice to say, we've had three pretty brilliant days together - hence me not being online to post a follow-up - and she's going to stay over on christmas eve, which is really amazing. I'm still thinking of giving her a letter - a variation on the one in this thread - but I've also bought her a few really nice gifts to go with it.

All in all probably the best christmas in a long while

That's great to hear!

I'm glad things turned out well for you. I bet you're looking forward to that Christmas Eve.

[Rose of Cairo]

[JimOfferman]

Congrats Sly! Have some very happy holidays!

[JSB]

Congratulations, and Merry Christmas!

Originally Posted by Sly Apple Pie

Well guys, the letter wasn't even needed.

After work the other day, she came over mine to exchange christmas wishes and whatnot. I ended up saying almost everything that was written in the letter (almost word for word), she cried a little ( ) and then she well and truly reciprocated those feelings.

Suffice to say, we've had three pretty brilliant days together - hence me not being online to post a follow-up - and she's going to stay over on christmas eve, which is really amazing. I'm still thinking of giving her a letter - a variation on the one in this thread - but I've also bought her a few really nice gifts to go with it.

All in all probably the best christmas in a long while

[Sly Apple Pie]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Congrats Sly! Have some very happy holidays!

You too, Jim.

Thank you for all your input. Didn't agree with everything that you said, but the opposing perspective is often the one that warrants the most consideration.

Have a great christmas

[nvictor]

Sly,

I did not know that the thread would turn out that way; it's the consequences of all the social networking thing, nowadays; but, I however stay in my position, even though I'm not a woman; showing your friend's present to the whole world before her is clumsy, getting help to choose but not showing anyone is not; but this is not the sense I get from this thread.

A great writer once said this to me, I was bugging him to help me write a poem for my girlfriend; he said, the problem with writing is that people don't go enough into themselves to say what they really want to say; because they are afraid to tell truth, they fall into the common, they write the common, the speak the common, but once somebody says what he really has inside without any censuring, this one is called a great writer; all great writers don't even consider themselves great writers.

Sly, if you have learn something here, apply this to writing something new, something that comes from within yourself; nobody can ever know what's lies inside.

Please don't collect everybody's input into a new letter, write your OWN letter; don't pretend we know her better than you do.

Have a great christmas.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

That's great Sly. Looks like you did very well! I am really happy for the both of you. I guess you are looking forward to the New Year and all it's possibilities. Congrats!

[ixmatus]

Congrats m8! I was voting for you the whole time.

Just for the record, poetry has worked flawlessly in the past for me. As long as I wrote it with meaning I always received very positive responses. Glad to see someone with enough balls to stick it (even though it manifested BEFORE the planned date, awesome!).