Useless husband ruining my life

[Sisyphus2]

Hello. Perhaps some of you have something to say that could help. I have been married for 5 years to someone I've known since I was 12. I love him, and I know he loves me, but it doesn't seem to matter. He refuses to do anything to earn money. He also doesn't help out around the house much, and is generally loathe to do me any sort of favor or take on any adult responsibility. But the big problem is the money. We've run two home businesses into the ground, mainly because we had to spend all profits on personal expenses to make ends meet. I've gone through a series of crappy jobs that were never enough to pay the bills. Now we're tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and living with my parents in some god-forsaken s%$*hole in the midwest, where I'm working for next-to-minimum wage, and there are no other jobs in this area. Running a home business doesn't seem reasonable because I have almost no space and no privacy where we're living now, so I can never get anything done, and of course I have no capital or credit. We're more broke now than ever. Moving here to save money on rent hasn't helped us at all. My parents are about to kick us out because they're mad at him for being so lazy. They tried to pay him $20 an hour to fix up things around the house, and he refused to even do that! I try talking to him about this, I try screaming. But he doesn't talk back. He has nothing to say in his own defense. He just won't do anything, and doesn't apologize for it. Even if I wanted to leave him, I don't see how I can get myself out of this situation. I have no money, I can't drive, and I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere with this useless person whom I can't count on for anything, with my Mom and Dad giving me crap all the time. I just can't figure out what to do next. It seems so hopeless.

[JimOfferman]

Hi Sisyphus2,

First of all, let me welcome you to the forum!

As I was reading your post, I couldn't help but notice that you put the blame for ALL of your misery firmly on your husband's shoulders. You are not helping yourself by doing that and, what's worse, you are not even right! There is only one person to blame for your sense of misery and it's (brace yourself)...

YOU!

I know this sounds a little harsh, but it is true. Your happiness starts with you. You have to make yourself happy, not your bum husband, not your parents and certainly not us forumfolk (although we do all wish you lots and lots of happiness).

It is you who has to say to herself: "I am not taking this any longer! I refuse to be unhappy with my situation! I am not going to wallow in my misery for one more second! I am going to change my world around!"

You - and you alone - have the power to change.

Have you seen the movie "The Pursuit of Happyness"? Sure, it's just a movie and it has all been dramatized for maximum effect, but the story really happened. There really is a Chris Gardner who started out with nothing and became a millionaire. He refused to accept his situation and worked and worked and worked until he made it - big time!

I'd share my own story as another example, but it is not nearly as dramatic and also not as conviently available on DVD

Bottomline: it all start with you!

[Angela]

What Jim says is completely and utterly so.

And.... just because you love someone, that doesn't mean they're a good life partner for you. If you have a partner who is not participating at all in the well-being of your relationship, he's not really a partner. You can't make him be a partner; but if you want to generate a life you love, you'll have to take a stand for making your well-being the most important priority in your life, whether he's in it or not.

Best wishes (and be grateful you've got your parents to lean on, even if they do give you crap!)

[Ak47]

I also believe marriage isn't always about passion... i'm pretty young but a firm believer about this. In this day and age there are too many other factors to consider in marriage than passion- that is, if you want to live satisfied, content, or happy.

Financial situations are always an important aspect of marriage.

You can't start your own homebusiness without your own capitol to invest, and it's a general rule in business that you always put ALL of the money you earned back into the business for the first 6 months that it's operating. Most people can't afford to do this, thus the businesses fail.

For starters, i might suggest that you have him get some sort of theraputic help AND/or medicated. I'm not much for meds myself, but they do help some people.

I've had problems with laziness myself, but i'm generally strong in overcoming my problems because i've been through some troubles and i'm pretty good at problem solving. So, i'm -slowly- overcoming my demotivation.

You might suggest to him that he becomes a vegabond for a month. While it might be hard to convince him to do (and may not) his opinions of life would drastically change, i'm sure.

If those things don't work, as well as sincerely and lovingly telling him how you feel, then you'll probably have to leave him behind, i hate to say.

As far as theraputic techniques, it'd probably be both in yours (and maybe his) benefit to find out WHY he's lazy. For instance, does he smoke weed? Did he used to do drugs and quit? Is he depressed? Pessimistic? etc... there are good ways to approach these things as yourself, or as a spouse or friend. you just have to find the right way.

[Ak47]

Oh, and Jim is right:

"happiness is an inside job"

i might suggest for both you and him to seek pleasures of the mind that are infinite. i.e. writing, reading, playing music, painting, drawing, etc

typically, not always, people are much more satisfied with life when they find some sort of art related thing they enjoy doing just for fun. (math is sometimes used too)

if there's something you enjoy doing, or have always wanted to do, you should try doing it. more importantly in this situation- your husband should be 'finding himself' and doing something he enjoys. it's not always art, some people just love cars, but everyone has a passion for doing something. i'm simply not myself if i don't play the guitar every day, for instance.

[Honeywith4bees]

Hey Sisyphus2 ~

I can really relate to your story. I spent quite a few years married to a guy who had kind of "given up" on life. He decided he didn't want to do anything anymore but smoke pot and play his guitar. We had four kids together and we were broke. I spent quite a long period of time trying to "help" him. The more I tried to "help" and take care of him, the worse he treated me and the worse I felt. I was consumed with resentment that left me utterly depressed. It seemed hopeless for sure.

Thing is, all those years of "helping" him, I should have been taking care of myself.

It's been said already, start thinking about yourself. Where do you want to be in 5 years? Start going there, if hubby wants to follow, he will, if he doesn't, then you will have to say your goodbyes. It may sound painful, the idea of separating from him, but is it any less painful then what you are going through now?

Good luck!

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Honeywith4bees

...is it any less painful then what you are going through now?

She meant to say "more", not "less"

(as in, separation will, in the end, be less painful than going on in endless suffering...)

[Honeywith4bees]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

She meant to say "more", not "less"

(as in, separation will, in the end, be less painful than going on in endless suffering...)

Yeah ~ what you said!

(In my mind, they are both different ways of saying the same thing, but yeah, what you said!)

[Ak47]

i agree- leave him if you think it will be to no end.

if he's old enough (20+) he's likely not to change his ways. it does happen, but not as often as it should; guess it depends on if you're willing to play the lottary. the big benefit is even if he never does come around after your attempt to change him.., you can always leave him later.

you need to weigh whether it's worth a bit more suffering to try some new tactics on him or not.

i'd advise that you at least give him a serious warning though (i'd expect one myself if i were in his shoes) - but don't take lame excuses or some lame romantic **** that he throws at you. i wouldn't believe him if he says he'll change either- most people don't, don't forget that. only let him think you believe what he says- but don't believe it yourself until you see it for a good several months in the least.

[ChangeYourTree]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus2

Hello. Perhaps some of you have something to say that could help. I have been married for 5 years to someone I've known since I was 12. I love him, and I know he loves me, but it doesn't seem to matter. He refuses to do anything to earn money. He also doesn't help out around the house much, and is generally loathe to do me any sort of favor or take on any adult responsibility. But the big problem is the money. We've run two home businesses into the ground, mainly because we had to spend all profits on personal expenses to make ends meet. I've gone through a series of crappy jobs that were never enough to pay the bills. Now we're tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and living with my parents in some god-forsaken s%$*hole in the midwest, where I'm working for next-to-minimum wage, and there are no other jobs in this area. Running a home business doesn't seem reasonable because I have almost no space and no privacy where we're living now, so I can never get anything done, and of course I have no capital or credit. We're more broke now than ever. Moving here to save money on rent hasn't helped us at all. My parents are about to kick us out because they're mad at him for being so lazy. They tried to pay him $20 an hour to fix up things around the house, and he refused to even do that! I try talking to him about this, I try screaming. But he doesn't talk back. He has nothing to say in his own defense. He just won't do anything, and doesn't apologize for it. Even if I wanted to leave him, I don't see how I can get myself out of this situation. I have no money, I can't drive, and I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere with this useless person whom I can't count on for anything, with my Mom and Dad giving me crap all the time. I just can't figure out what to do next. It seems so hopeless.

1. I'm glad you can't get anymore credit. You can't borrow your way out of your problems.

2. You need to go see a marriage counselor.

3. You need to sit down and look in your husbands eyes and tell him exactly what you are feeling.

4. You need to make some goals.

a. Fix your career crisis (do you need more education, do you need to try new things, etc.?)

b. Start budgeting your money so you know where everything is going.

c. Get current on all your bills and get out of your parents house.

d. Get out of debt

Remember--your situation is not the end of you, it's the beginning. The good thing about being at the bottom is that there is only one direction to go.

You'll make it if you stay calm and get focused.

[Lola]

Sisyphus2 -

I, too, relate to your current feelings of frustration. Can you see in your words that blaming others for all that is not *right* with your world completely deprives you of any power in your own life? Is that who you really are? Do you really want to play the role of victim - powerless to make choices and decisions to create the life you really want?

Experiencing happiness, peace, and contentment in your life IS a choice and totally up to you regardless of the attitudes, thoughts, and behavior of others.

If you find yourself in situations and circumstances that are not supportive of the life you truly desire, then you must create new situations and circumstances.

[Sisyphus2]

Originally Posted by Honeywith4bees

Hey Sisyphus2 ~

I can really relate to your story. I spent quite a few years married to a guy who had kind of "given up" on life. He decided he didn't want to do anything anymore but smoke pot and play his guitar. We had four kids together and we were broke. I spent quite a long period of time trying to "help" him. The more I tried to "help" and take care of him, the worse he treated me and the worse I felt. I was consumed with resentment that left me utterly depressed. It seemed hopeless for sure.

Thing is, all those years of "helping" him, I should have been taking care of myself.

It's been said already, start thinking about yourself. Where do you want to be in 5 years? Start going there, if hubby wants to follow, he will, if he doesn't, then you will have to say your goodbyes. It may sound painful, the idea of separating from him, but is it any less painful then what you are going through now?

Good luck!

I thank you all for writing. Of all the replies I've gotten, the one quoted above is the most helpful, because Honeywith4bees has personal experience with what I'm talking about.

So, Honeywith4bees, how did you finally bring yourself to break up with him? And how did you handle the logistics of it? Did he have somewhere else to go as soon as you kicked him out? Did he start to change afterwards? What's he doing now?

I am worried not only about the pain of separation, but whether or not he will even be able to survive. He does not have anywhere else to go. He has pets that would have nowhere to go. I honestly think he will probably be dead within three months, either from effects of homelessness (illness that he can't afford to treat, frostbite from sleeping outside), or from suicide. And in order to make it happen, I would literally have to physically throw him and his things, including his pets, out of the house and then change the locks, and try to ignore it as he's pounding on the door, stuck outside in the snow with nowhere to go. I can't imagine doing this to my best friend. This is why it is not easy to solve this problem. Because I actually care about this person. I actually care about what happens to him, even if we don't stay married.

Some of the other advice I received here, while I'm sure it was given in earnest, was not very helpful, and I see the same problems in advice given to other members of this forum, so I will offer my critique, in hopes of improving the ways in which we forum members try to help each other.

The advice that I should blame myself for everything, and not blame anyone else for anything was not very useful because I already have and do blame myself. Of course, I chose to marry this guy and to stay with him for this long, so I am to blame for that. But he has failed to live up to all of the most basic responsibilities that a husband has towards his wife. It is a breach of contract. He is to blame for that. And my description of the situation, as a set of problems caused entirely by him, were statements of fact. If it wasn't for his refusal to cooperate, there would be no problem. We would have a happy marriage. Therefore the blame does naturally reside with him. But I am the one who will end up having to fix the problem, because he won't do anything to fix it.

The Law of Attraction mindset teaches you to be aware of the effects and control you have over your own life. But you can't really control someone else. You can only try to treat them the way you yourself would want to be treated, and hope for the best. When you marry someone you've known for years, you have a reasonable expectation that they will treat you with respect, and that includes at least covering his/her own expenses in the household. My husband has not met that expectation, and I am angry. I think that is reasonable. But unfortunately, blaming the victim is one of the unfortunate manifestations of the Law of Attraction mindset, just like it is with the similarly flawed "social Darwinist" mindset. [Example - Q: "Why are all those kids starving in Africa?" A: "Because they don't have a positive attitude!"] Self-awareness and personal responsibility are good, but I don't think it's effective to just blame yourself and wallow in self-hatred because someone else screwed you over, nor is it wrong to place blame on the person who screwed you over. The same goes for a situation where the problems are caused by circumstances beyond a person's control (like the kids starving in Africa).

I have tried to do whatever was in my power to fix this problem. At first I tried to help him get a job, and I was successful several times at getting him a job, but he would quit within a few days. So after much frustration with this, I decided to quit trying to control him, and to concentrate on making more money myself. But after years of trying to do that, I've realized that I do not have it in my power at this time to earn enough money to support 2 people. If I could, I would, but I can't.

I find blaming myself to be just as useless as blaming others. It doesn't get me any closer to solving the problem. So thanks, but no, I'll pass on that.

I resent the implication by one forum member that I have used credit to solve my problems. I never said anything to indicate that, and it was an unfair assumption to make. When I moved in with my husband, I owned a business, and I had racked up a couple of charge cards in my own name to pay for printing catalogues. I was making payments and everything was fine. But after living with him for a couple of years, it got to the point where I couldn't make the payments anymore, and that's how my credit got screwed up. I invested in a business, and it didn't work out. It could happen to any of you. It happens to multi-billion dollar corporations all of the time, but they are not held to account for the bad investments they make, like human beings are.

I wouldn't use credit to solve my problems, but having bad credit creates a number of road blocks that make it harder to get your life on track. For one thing, you have to pay twice as much as a normal person to get into an apartment. There are many jobs you can't get if you have bad credit. For cars you pretty much have to buy something outright, which usually means something that's broken and dangerous. This is why I mentioned my lack of credit. Because it creates these road blocks in life.

Regarding hobbies that may bring new meaning to my life, etc, I actually already have something I'm passionate about, that I'm very talented at, and that I've been doing somewhat successfully for many years now. I still make a couple hundred dollars a month in royalties from things I've done in the past. In fact, I used to make a lot more money with my talent, and for a while I was supporting us both on the money I made from it. But it was never enough, of course, for two people to live comfortably, and I have frequently had to find jobs outside the house to fill in the gaps. Now I've been working full-time for a year. In this time my talent has gone largely unused because I no longer have time to devote to it, and because I now live in a place where I have no space or privacy in which to work. I suppose I would have more space and privacy without my husband around.

Someone asked, why is my husband so lazy? I had spent a lot of time psychoanalyzing him, and this is what I've come up with. His stepfather was very abusive to him, his biological mother and father both never cared about him at all. I know: I was friends with him when we were both pre-teens and I witnessed it myself. They made him so miserable, that the only way for him to cope was to shut down emotionally and make himself not care what happened to him. They never gave him any encouragement, and so therefore he never had any desire to do anything that would make them proud. So early on he never had any personal goals for himself, nothing he wanted to accomplish in life. Now he's all grown up, and he's still stuck in the mindset he created for himself as a defense mechanism, even though he doesn't need to defend himself anymore.

None of this is an excuse, of course. Unlike his parents, I love him, and I've sacrificed so much for him. I have no doubt that I am the best thing that's ever happened to him. Without me he would have been dead long ago. So you would think that if nothing else, his goal would be to please me by making something of himself, and contributing to the household finances. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

At any rate, I would be interested in hearing more from Honeywith4bees and anyone else who has ever had a similar situation.

[Angela]

Sysiphus2, you have made the mistake of hearing us say blame when in fact we are talking about responsibility. Blaming and taking responsibility are two entirely different things, of course.

When you're being blaming, you're completely powerless. And when you are taking 100% responsibility, you have all the power in the world to generate a life you're in love with.

As I've mentioned, it looks like you've chosen a partner who is not willing to make your well being -- or even his own! -- a priority. You have taken that to the extreme of "If it wasn't for me, he would die." So now you have taken on the responsibility not only for his well-being, but actually for his EXISTENCE! That is not a partnership, my dear. I am not saying anything is your fault; I am saying that until you take 100% responsibility for the life you find yourself leading, you are 100% powerless to change it, and to create a life you love.

[ZHereford]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus2

I am worried not only about the pain of separation, but whether or not he will even be able to survive. He does not have anywhere else to go. He has pets that would have nowhere to go. I honestly think he will probably be dead within three months, either from effects of homelessness (illness that he can't afford to treat, frostbite from sleeping outside), or from suicide.

Sisyphus2 your husband has no motivation to change. He knows you're going to be there no matter what. You may be willing to take responsibility for your actions but he is not for his (or lack of them in this case).

Unless you give him reason to change, he won't. Why should he? Until you are willing to stop enabling him, nothing will change, so you might as well get used to the status quo.

[Holistic Star]

I was with someone for 3 years who would not work, or manage to get fired within a few days of starting a job. We lived with his parents as we couldn't afford anywhere else. Who stole money from me and then shouted abuse at me for being 'materialistic', who could only think about where the next lot of dope was coming from and who frequently threatened to kill me when high and I believed him capable of it.
I often thought of leaving, but I had no money and loads of debts and couldn't afford the deposit on the smallest accommodation. All my friends had disappeared so I had no-one to help me.

Eventually something inside me just flipped. I realised I would rather be dead than live like this anymore so if I left him and he killed me it couldn't be any worse! (OK completely twisted thinking - but desperation warps your mind). I left, he threatened suicide several times but didn't go through with it. He even found a job and held it down briefly in an attempt to win me back and kept asking for 'one last chance'. He said he didn't realise the last time I said he was on a last chance that I really meant it. I realised then that he would always push people to the limit and then some more. I was so pleased to be free.

I was lucky in that someone I worked with had a spare room and I paid a weekly rent and they didn't want a deposit upfront, gradually I got myself esteem back. It took a long while to stop being angry at myself for allowing it to happen, but I got there evenutally. I threw myself into my work and eventually got promoted. I started to clear the debts and my finances started to recover. I started going out and enjoying myself and although not the least bit interested in meeting someone new, I eventually met and married a wonderful person who I have been with now for 5 years. He has never hit me or threatened me, he has never had to be put on a 'last chance' because he treats me with respect. I'm not saying it is all plain sailing. It took a lot of time to extract myself from the situation. He kept turning up unnanaounced with gifts and tears trying to win me back. I had phonecalls from his mother crying asking why I was breaking her son's heart and I torn her family apart. Even a few years later large bills kept turning up that were unpaid, even though I had given him the money when we were together to pay them and I had balliffs round threatening to take my possessions on more than one occassion. Each incident reminded me of why I had left and why I was pleased to be single and making my own way in the world.

I bumped into him recently and he is still living at home and still on government benefits. He hasn't worked in several years. He used to say he 'needed' me and only I could make him happy. Like you, I was the best thing that ever happened to him, but he still treated me like crap. I can't tell you how to do it, but the day I decided to stop being responsible for him was the day I got my life back.

I wish you courage and strength because they will help you decide what to do and carry it through. It didn't get better straight away, in fact immediately after it got worse. But knowing I wouldn't tollerate it anymore got me through and that attitude can help you too.

I wish you all the best.

[Lola]

I'm curious, Sisyphus2, are there any worthwhile people in your life? You've made it very clear your husband is useless, you've implied it of your parents, then you reach out to this forum and within two days determine its participants are useless as well.

So? Are there at this moment any worthwhile people in your life?

If you cannot immediately start naming people of worth and value currently present in your life, then I encourage you to stop with the blaming long enough to consider what common denominator is present in each of your (unsatisfactory) relationships.

I can't speak for your husband or your parents but I do know the people here pretty well. In spite of your very limited view, most of us have been through our own particular 12 gates of hell. Our stories may not match yours word for word, we may have chosen to not relay the details (yet again) in response to your post. But one thing every one of us has in common is that we each have lived through, survived, and overcome (or are in the process of overcoming) our unique histories. As we've worked together through numerous issues on this forum regardless of the specifics, two themes have consistently arisen:

1. The things we don't like about people around us can serve as a mirror to help us see undesirable attributes or behaviors in ourselves. Objectively examining, accepting and owning this mirror reflection can illuminate what parts of ourselves may not be helping us to get what we truly want.

2. We cannot affect change in any person other than ourselves. We are each 100% responsible for our individual life experience.

I am not by any means implying that you have to put up with unhealthy relationships. I'm just reiterating that it is all up to you. It is your choice to remain an enabler in a co-dependent relationship. It is your choice to live with "Mom and Dad giving [you] crap all the time." It is your choice to continue to see this (and any other situation) as caused entirely by another person or to accept responsibility for creating your own life.

Good luck.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus2

The advice that I should blame myself for everything...

I'm very sorry that I used the word blame in my post. I realize now that caused you to read my words as implying that your current situation is your fault, but that is not what I meant at all.

I have tried to do whatever was in my power to fix this problem.

Herein lies the rub: you don't have the power to fix this problem. You don't have the power to "fix" your husband. It is both sad and fortunate that we don't have the power to change others against their will.

The only thing that lies within your power is to make the choice whether or not to allow him to be an influence in your life. Herein lies your responsibility. Right now, you are choosing to stand by your husband in his miserable little life, at the expense of your happiness.

Stay with him or pursue your own happiness. You decide.

None of this is an excuse, of course. Unlike his parents, I love him, and I've sacrificed so much for him.

And yet he has given you nothing in return but misery. You deserve better. You deserve to be with someone who is as devoted to you as you are to him. You deserve happiness.

He is not giving that to you. He failed. He does not deserve you.

Jim.

[beautyscientist]

There has been a lot of good sense spoken on this. Just one other angle - I went through a period where I felt much the same way, though not so extremely, as you do about my partner.

We worked through it and are still together. If you have to break up then that's the way it is, but don't necessarily give up straight away. I think people can change out of all recognition sometimes.

[Honeywith4bees]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus2

So, Honeywith4bees, how did you finally bring yourself to break up with him? And how did you handle the logistics of it? Did he have somewhere else to go as soon as you kicked him out? Did he start to change afterwards? What's he doing now?

Hey Sisyphus2 ~

It took a long time to finally make the decision to make him leave. We also had been together since we were teenagers and had four children together. As I said before, I spent a lot of time trying to "help" him and he became very angry and resentful towards me because of that.
My oldest son and I were driving past a billboard one afternoon that was an advertisement for a battered woman's help line, and my son said, "Look! Your picture is on that billboard!" I looked up to see a woman holding her head in her hands and crying. At that moment I realized that all four of my sons were learning first hand how to be future fathers/husbands/lovers by watching what was going on in my home.

When I told him to leave, there was a lot of "rattle-banging" on his part. He pulled every trick in the book to get me to change my mind.

Within months he was moved in with a female friend of mine and she's been taking care of him ever since!!

As far as what's he doing now? Mostly the same thing. He has his periods of doing ok, works a little, starts counseling, quits pot, but it doesn't usually last. I don't think about it much anymore,to be honest, I have my own life to take care of.

Originally Posted by Sisyphus2

I am worried not only about the pain of separation, but whether or not he will even be able to survive. He does not have anywhere else to go. He has pets that would have nowhere to go. I honestly think he will probably be dead within three months, either from effects of homelessness (illness that he can't afford to treat, frostbite from sleeping outside), or from suicide. And in order to make it happen, I would literally have to physically throw him and his things, including his pets, out of the house and then change the locks, and try to ignore it as he's pounding on the door, stuck outside in the snow with nowhere to go. I can't imagine doing this to my best friend. This is why it is not easy to solve this problem. Because I actually care about this person. I actually care about what happens to him, even if we don't stay married.

I cared, and still care about my ex husband, he is after all the father of my children and a man I've known for over 20 years now. Caring, loving and taking on the responsibilities of someone else are separate things, however. He's done surprising well for himself, mooching off of other people.

Originally Posted by Sisyphus2

Someone asked, why is my husband so lazy? I had spent a lot of time psychoanalyzing him, and this is what I've come up with. His stepfather was

None of this is an excuse, of course. Unlike his parents, I love him, and I've sacrificed so much for him. I have no doubt that I am the best thing that's ever happened to him. Without me he would have been dead long ago. So you would think that if nothing else, his goal would be to please me by making something of himself, and contributing to the household finances. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

I used to feel the same way. How could he do this to me? When will he wake up and see that I am the only one that really cares about him? I saw past the man to the little boy he used to be, the one that was wounded by his father and step mother. I thought I could heal him, fix him, change him. I shouldn't have done that. I took away his chance to grow and take control of his own destiny. It's called co-dependence. Melody Beattie writes some good books about it. I should have been paying attention to my own needs and letting him grow up and take care of his own.

I'd be lying if I said it was easy. I broke up our family. I didn't have a job. I didn't have any money. I had loads of debt. I had four children ranging in age from from 1 and a 1/2 to 10 all counting on me and only me.

It was the best thing I could have done and I am so glad I did. Our lives our so much better now, it's like those days were a dream.

I'm still learning a lot from the whole situation too. For instance, I never could understand how when I was doing everything "right", I was holding up my end of the marriage bargain so to speak, then why did I get treated so badly? What was I doing to "deserve" this? Looking deeper, I see that the "I am worthless" feeling had so deeply permeated my being that I attracted to myself a "partner" that would prove to me just how worthless I really thought I was.

You too, Sisyphus2, are worthwhile and deserving. You deserve to be in a loving and mutually beneficial relationship. I can't speak for every one on this board, but I know that that is the general sentiment. Good luck!

[Jennihul]

Great advice here.

I would also change my nickname here. Seriously.

If I wanted abundance and prosperity, great relationships and joy I don't think I would choose a name that means "cursed one who is punished in hell having to endless roll the same rock up a hill and have it fall back down for all eternity..."

God REALLY is in the details....

Jennifer

[Ninja]

I just want to say one thing: he'll die if you leave him to fend for himself? Well, too bad then. Yes, I know, I'm being incredibly harsh here, but you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself: is he my husband, or my pet? Am I his wife or his mother? Why should he even try to get his act together if everyone around is taking care of him? He's living a comfy little existence now and there's no way he'll give up on that until you cut the apron strings. If he loved you, he would want you to take care of yourself first, and live the life you wish, with or without him. You've putten his needs over your own for years: I'd say it's time you claim your share of the pie that is life.

P.S. About his pets: maybe you could take care of them? If you do leave him, you wont have to worry about them and you'll have some company!

[m18pak]

Sisyphus2, I feel for you, and I want to say that I know how it feels. I know what it's like to have a so called family of people who cause you nothing but pain and misery. I know what it's like to have those who are supposed to be your own flesh and blood slowly drain the life out of you and kill you a bit more inside everyday. I know what it's like to be abused for so long that you feel horrible for wanting a different life, for wanting to be free. I know what it's like to feel like a slave, like a chained dog, to feel stifled and suffocated. I know what it's like to live in fear and frustration and bitter impotent rage.

Listen, Sysiphus2, LEAVE HIM. You cannot change him against his will. You cannot help him if he refuses to be helped.

You have to realise that if you stay with him things will never change.

If you stay your life will never get better.

If you stay all you have to look forward to will be the release of death.

Yes, I know it's hard. I know you'll feel bad for leaving him, but you know what? you should think of any feelings of obligation to him as being a form of Stockholm syndrome, because that's really what it is. He is, in reality, a jail warden who has turned your life into a cage.

Give up on him, Sysiphus. Give up trying. There comes a point when you realize that there really is no point, that they never will be the person you need them to be, that they'll never give you what you need from them. I don't know if you're there yet, but it comes eventually. The point comes when you wake up and see the truth of the situation, when you see the relationship for what it really was, is, and will be if you let it go on.

He can't, Sysiphus. He just can't. He can't be the man and husband you need him to be.

Cut him out of your life now, before it's too late. Leave him and never think about him again.

I am worried not only about the pain of separation, but whether or not he will even be able to survive. He does not have anywhere else to go. He has pets that would have nowhere to go. I honestly think he will probably be dead within three months, either from effects of homelessness (illness that he can't afford to treat, frostbite from sleeping outside), or from suicide. And in order to make it happen, I would literally have to physically throw him and his things, including his pets, out of the house and then change the locks, and try to ignore it as he's pounding on the door, stuck outside in the snow with nowhere to go. I can't imagine doing this to my best friend. This is why it is not easy to solve this problem. Because I actually care about this person. I actually care about what happens to him, even if we don't stay married.

I know how you feel, Sysiphus. I felt that way too for a time. I felt like I was committing some horrible crime in leaving. I felt evil.

Sysiphus, it is easy to solve this problem. STOP CARING. Start seeing your feelings towards him for what they really are: a sickness that is slowly strangling the life out of you

Sysiphus, realise that your feelings of guilt are really nothing more than obstacles that need to be overcome if you want to survive, if you want to live.

Because that's really what it comes down to in the end: you have the right to live.

I vacillated like you for a long time too, debating with myself whether I was doing the right thing, and do you know what I realised? that I didn't ****ing care if it was the right thing or not, because I wanted to live. I wanted to live, dammit, I wanted to live, and I didn't care anymore if other people chose to hurt themselves because of it. I didn't care anymore if it was the wrong thing. I didn't care anymore if the heavens opened up and angels came down to tell me that I was violating the sacred moral code of God. I didn't care anymore. I just wanted to live.

You have the inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, so put what your husband might do if you exercise that right out of your mind: it is none of your concern. It is his life and his decision, and he has the right to do whatever he wants with himself. If he really does end up committing suicide, then that's his choice.

Sysiphus, some people on here have suggested that you should take up some kind of hobby or find some sort of passion to give your life meaning. They obviously do not understand your situation in the slightest. You can't give your life any meaning, because as of right now you have no life. Their suggestion is in the same vein as saying to a soldier who's been hit with machine-gun fire that he should relax and take some deep breaths to calm down. They just don't have a clue.

Sysiphus, it is very clear what you must do: get your husband out of your life now. Do it as soon as possible. Make it your top priority, make it your only priority. Get him out. Do all that you can everyday to achieve this end. You should, to all intents and purposes, view this as being important as getting a cancerous tumor in your brain removed.

And no, this is not being cold and cruel; you are simply doing what must be done, as painlessly as possible, because there really is no point in prolonging the torture.

I know it's hard to do since you haven't done it for so long, but you have to be willful now. You have to do this, so put everything that doesn't pertain to this end out of your mind. Think about nothing else. Don't worry what will happen to him or if it's right or wrong. Just do what you have to do.

You deserve to live, Sysiphus, remember that.

[blueyedathena]

So like Sisyphus I married a man who was not ready to be a husband in any sense of the word except that he wanted someone to be a wife in the biblical. Only ever having seen dysfunctional relationships I thought this was how it is supposed to be. And knowing my beliefs from a religious standpoint I believe that this is all there is, marriage is a lifelong commitment and should be carried out as such.(wow that makes it sound like a death sentence) In the past two years of our marriage he has had jobs and either quit them all or been fired from them due to his own stupidity, he has made promises to me and to his parents (who have been financially supporting us through his last stint of unemployment), and he has been angry with me for where all "our" money is going because he sees his entire paycheck get deposited to our account and I don't want to give him money for cigarettes (which I am allergic to). Now I understand that I am partially to blame for marrying him so soon after we had started dating, we were together 1yr 3 mons before tying the knot. Also I was 19 at the time and as we all well know no one really knows who they are at 19 let alone what they truly want. (This is not to say that every marriage before or around this age is doomed I just don't think I should have jumped in so soon) At 19 I thought I knew who I was and what I wanted I have always been on the fast track in life and wanted it all. The husband, the house, the kids (thankfully I did not get everything I wanted at that time and still don't have it). He has never had to take care of himself before In his life, his mother has been a stay at home mom since his birth 25 years ago and has been cleaning up for him ever since. As a couple this is our 2nd financial short coming and the second time they have stepped in to help. Each time he returns to the same stupidity because mommy and daddy will always be there to fix it for him. I have completely resigned myself to the what if of him not meeting his "goals" by the end of the two months. However I don't feel like I can move on and I suppose that is my fault too if I really wanted to see results I should have made his deadline shorter but two months made sense at the time. Like I said before however I am not patient at least not in waiting for "grow-ups" and I am still having the internal struggle as to whether what I am doing by "leaving" him is right. My parents (mother and step father, the perfect example of a realtionship that should have ended) try to be supportive but I wonder at this point if their relationship with him and the fact that my step father and husband are so similar is hurting me more then helping.

So now that I have blurped our entire marriage story and essentially why I am living with my parents again. Here is the problem I am faced with at this moment, what can I do in the meantime to keep my self occupied (am getting certifications of my own, participating in two bible studies through my second job which just happens to be a church, and working almost 60 hours per week at my full time job not to mention the time at the second job). However I am finding myself still pre-occupied with things about our relationship in the past month that have made me confused and frustrated and are cornerstones that lead me to the finial strike of him quitting his job that pushed me over the edge.

I have lost all physical attraction to him, I don't feel like I can relate to anything he finds entertaining, I am frustrated by many of his actions (including but not limited to his inability to keep a job), and I find myself secretly wishing that the two months was over and I found out he had cheated on me making it so much easier to just say "I'm done". At this point I have no intention of moving back into the house that we currently can't afford, because I am the only one working, that I don;t have any attachment to. We had two dogs and I had to give them up because I could not take care of them with the number of hours I work to keep our heads above water and he cannot be bothered to let them out to go to the bathroom but will b**** when they make a mess on the floor (it is not like they can let themselves out to use the restroom). I am just so angry and frustrated about the whole mess that I all can think about is making a big mistake with another person to take my mind off the person that is frustrating me. I know this would only cause more problems then it would solve, which is none. But at this point maybe my standards are just set too high but I don't see anyway that my husband can live up to what I have asked of him in the next month and a half and I don't think that I want him to.


So I suppose after all this I am just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to send him back to WI to his parents and start life over when the mountain of debt includes a contract with a debt solution agency and a house we cannot afford and in this market slump cannot sell. Plus I think the worst part of it all is I find myself wondering if I married him because I wanted him and love him or if I married him because I love his family.
Perhaps I am just being stupid to want it all you know a husband who loves me and will work with me as a partner, I suppose I just posted on here to see if Sisyphus has any advice as she was going through the same thing around this time last year. Maybe a year has given her wisdom to pass on to my situation. Someone please help me.

[mattpd]

Life is like baking a cake.

You get a recipe, add together a heap of ingredients, mix it together, put it in the oven, check on it now and again, wait a while, and hope to hell it turns out well when you pull it out.

Sometimes the cake is awesome and tastes nice, sometimes its a little off but still edible, and sometimes its just a complete failure, or sometimes you are like Larry David and accidentally get a black cake shaped like a penis for a 7 year old's birthday party.

So what I am trying to say is that we always do things with best intentions, but it takes a while to find out how things turn out, and sometimes you really do need to start again.

I'm not sure why you don't kick his arse out on the street, and start baking another cake.

[ar81]

I think you are not growing together. That's bad.
And money is not helping. That's worse.

I would ask a few questions:

1.Why does he think that causes him not to do anything to make money? What are his inner feelings? Does he want some help in his recovery or not? Or is it that he thinks that he is doing right and things are now as they have to be?

This will tell you if there is a chance to get his collaboration to find a way out and at the same time helping him to find a way out if there is a way out.

2.What are the life plans of both?

If his life plan is different than yours, and too incompatible, taking different paths is the way to go. Having a different life plan is perfectly respectable. So the separation should not be surrounded by bad feelings.

I once separated in the past because her lifeplan was not to live like a couple. She found that out as we lived together.
We separated but we remained as good friends. No offense taken from any side.

We can't expect anyone to change. So I would survey his feelings on that and make a decision.
This the most serious decision of all. So be sure about what you decide, for it can't be reversed.

If there is a chance or not to grow together and make your marriage to grow together and recover, is something that you need to examine carefully. Lack of money is a very important love killer. Love can't live of sparks and magic only, it needs bills paid and food on the table.

If he wants to help that's Ok, but if not, separation would prevent love to be destroyed. Yes, you might feel nostalgia, but if situationcontinues as it is now, bad feelings may arise between you and that hurts far more than nostalgia.

What do you want for YOUR future? This is the most serious question you must have to ask yourself.

[blueyedathena]

So mattpd and ar81 thank you for confirming what I believed to be true. As in any story there is more to this one the I have the fortitude to type out online. Suffice to say that over the past two years I have tried everything from supporting him in everything he does to giving him room to breathe to forcing him into jobs whether he wants them or not and I just cannot do it anymore. Okay I take that back I am sure that I am capable of continuing this same song and dance for the rest of my life but I choose not to.

I went out and found a new home for one of the three cats we had left today and will find homes for the others, thank GOD that we did not have any children that I need to try and re-arrange. At this point I just want it to all be done but well that means going through that evil D word and parting company. Knowing that it is all for the better however does not make it any easier but well my state government does if we can both agree that we should be divorced and agree on how the assets should be divided (which should be easy since I don't want anything that I did not walk in in with) it could be done (legally speaking) in less then a month. However do I just let him run out his deadline and tell him that it is over and good luck with all that you have accomplished. Or do I tell him sooner, such as before our wedding anniversary this weekend, you know it is supposed to be less painful when you do it quicker, like a band aid.

[ns123]

blueeyeathena,

Good on you for setting things in motion to change your situation. I applaud you for having the courage to leave.

And yes, if you can come to an agreement on how things will be divided up, it won't cost you that much and it won't take very long. A friend of mine's divorce cost him just the court costs, which I think amounted to $40, because his wife didn't want anything. She just wanted out. He got the house, the kids, everything, and she got her "escape."

I hope your divorce goes smoothly and that you will begin stepping into your new, joyful, wonderful life.

Sisyphus2,

You need to leave. And leave now. Your family, your husband, is not doing anything to you that you have not allowed them to do to you. You allow them to ruin your life by choosing to remain in this situation. Leave.

I struggled with this issue for years. Someone who I love dearly is just like your husband and I finally had to kick him out of my house. I wanted to save him, he was my family. In the end, I almost allowed him to ruin my own life and my wonderful marriage. Since he's been out, he's not killed himself, he's not homeless, but he has gotten worse off since he lived with me.

When you are someone's keeper for so long, and you love that person, you feel as if it's your duty to go to hell and back for them. The problem is, they don't want to get out of hell, and you don't want to stay there. So sometimes, you have to "go back" to the land of the living without them and let them climb out of their own hell. Or not. It's their choice. You cannot make it for them.

I kicked him out of my home, it's been five years, and he's still in hell. And I beat myself up for years about it, because I love him dearly. Once I realized that it's not my job to save him, I cannot save someone against their own will, I started letting go of that pain.

I tell him that when he's ready, when he's pulled himself out of hell, he could always come back and my heart and home will always be open to him. But not until then. And he cannot tell me he's ready, he has to demonstrate it first. You'll be surprised how people say they will do something, but don't really end up doing it.