Painful friendship+sex...help me please :(

[Bliss Sage]

I need help with an issue that is so embarrassing and sensitive to me that I had to make a new id to ask for help...

I need help with two issues surrounding the same incident. The first one, and one I am afraid to explain, deals with a friendship or some twisted sort of relationship I have with a guy here. To start with, he and I are so incompatible it's not even funny. He is so negative and hellbent on his misery that he makes me feel like a ray of sunshine (and I've suffered from depression all my life). However, when he is not drowning himself in self-pity and brooding in anger and resentment (about God-knows-what) or trying to make me feel guilty about something, he is very fun, he is a laugh-riot, he is nice, he pays attention to me and everyone really likes him, because he brings humor and fun and life.

He and I fight a lot, though, because he has such issues that make him imagine bad things about me and then, without my having any clue, he gets angry at me, he shuts me out, doesn't let me tell him what is, he hangs up the phone on me or never answers so he doesn't have to listen to me when I tell him what happened to me (nevermind if I am calling him from a hospital bed, he will never know - HE is the victim and I am the nasty b*tch who hurt him)...

He has hurt me so much I can't even remember all the times, and usually due to him wanting to not listen so he can feel sorry for himself believing some lie about some awful thing I did to him.

It was never a question in my mind that I wouldn't mind never having him as a friend. I am just so dead alone where I am and he was always the only one who spoke to me, and in the beginning, he always made me laugh - he made everyone laugh. Later, though, he let me see the darkness beneath the surface.

A few nights ago, when he was in one of his delightful moods, he came to watch movies with me. But we didn't end up watching a movie...

To set the stage, though, I should mention that the last time we had watched movies, he took the opportunity to lean his head on my shoulder and seemingly fall asleep. I was a little shocked, as we had never hardly even touched hands before that and the society where we are is not accepting of such behavior (outside of marriage). I thought, ok, no big deal if he falls asleep on me like that - he's suffered a lot and has no sort of emotional shelter and has insomnia. But...the next thing I know, his arm is wrapped over my stomach and his hand on my hip and butt and I felt him lightly fingering my undies once through my bathrobe and he was holding me tight like a teddy bear (it half felt good to me, but I couldn't indulge in the feeling, because circumstances were all wrong). He looked like he was in heaven, but it just wasn't right...

I wasn't sure what to do, but in the end I got up, because it wasn't appropriate. After the fact, he told me he hadn't ever slept so well, that he felt like I was an angel and that he slept like an angel. I did see he had a smile on his face like I'd never seen and he had also been making noises, so I guess he was really asleep. However, he said these nice things to me in the context of making me feel guilty as I was telling him he couldn't sleep beside or on me again. That was followed by a week of us not speaking to each other.

This time, Wednesday night, when we sat down to watch a movie, I felt myself overcome with fatigue and wanted nothing more than to rest on him...so I did (I guess I had softened up a bit, it's a hard tug-of-war between wanting affection in wrong conditions and forcing yourself to wait for the right ones before allowing yourself to be affectionate with someone). I rested my head on his shoulder and it was lovely. He was caressing my hair a little too. But then, things happened so fast - first of all, it seems as if I lost consciousness, or I blacked out somehow, because I don't know how anything happened. Just the next thing I knew he was on top of me kissing me and ... and well...I didn't not like it, in fact, I really liked it and that is the problem and why I am writing.

To give a background on my principles, I am old and ... waiting for marriage to have sex (i.e. am not holding my breath to have sex before I die), but...can't say I have no experience of physical intimacy. Whenever he went somewhere I didn't want him to go, I'd intervene and he would say to me "Je te supplie..." and I kept saying "Non, non, pas comme ca, ma premiere fois" and "C'est pour la nuit de noce, pour la nuit de noce...non, je te supplie, non..." I didn't want my first time to be like that and I kept telling him it's for the wedding night.

My concerns:

1. Health: I was in a daze the entire time, which is normal for me judging also from my previous experiences with physical intimacy. This time, however, the daze I was in seemed to be more severe, like a virtual loss of consciousness. He eventually gave up, I guess, when I wouldn't let him go all the way. The last thing I remember was seeing him put on his pants and then I must have blacked out. I stayed unconscious/sleeping on the couch for ... I don't know how many hours, but I woke up there at 4 a.m. and stumbled dizzily to my bed. In the morning when I woke, I was overcome with dizziness and fatigue (possibly a result of anemia, which I think I have now...or a result of our activities the night before...??) and it was so severe I had to rest in bed for hours and didn't get out until the afternoon. I later learned that on his way out, he took one of my keys and a bottle of water I had in the fridge - later he told me that he had told me he was going to borrow the key and take the water, so...I was unconscious, but I don't know if my body was functioning and if I responded to him when he said those things.

2. The relationship: I loved the experience with him. It was the first time ever, out of ... well, 2 other guys, that I felt like the guy didn't forget me by being consumed by his lust. Like I didn't become an object or a tool to him, as I felt the past few times I have had physical intimacy with male people. I hated sex, because I felt like men just turn into raving beasts and I become just the thing they are using to get rid of some overpowering twitch they have. The guy who I know and might love, and even one who may say he loves me, turns into some kind of freak beast when he gets horny, scares me and he doesn't know or remember anymore who I am, but just touches and uses me like I am a blow-up doll or something inhuman. I began to say men just need a hole, they don't care where it is or who it's on, they don't even pay attention.

This guy, though, he was present with me in everything he was doing, I could feel it and I liked what he was doing and now I wonder...and wonder...if I should get involved in a relationship, or marriage, with him...despite how badly we go together otherwise. He was so warm and gentle and...in what he was doing, gave the feelings I need or I desperately wish for...also because I am so alone and most men where I am are bad, especially bad for me.

A side note: I love someone else and I have been waiting for him for months, but he has still not come and people keep telling me to forget him. The first time my friend touched me, fell asleep on me, I felt strongly that I was betraying the one I love. Due to my principles, however, even falling asleep on me (I mean fingering my undies!) without being married or in a proper romantic relationship is not right.

If anyone has any advice to share, especially concerning the two issues numbered above, I would be grateful to learn ...

[cdn2wheeler]

Hi Bliss. First off, welcome to the boards. No need to be embarassed about your question. We're here to help if we can.

From what's written here, you seem to have a lot of unresolved issues about sex. You mentioned that you hated sex, that it turns men into raving beasts, most men where you are are bad and that though you got some pleasure out of this one-off tryst that's somehow a problem.

It's very possible, even likely, that these issues about sex being negative are drawing men to you that act in the very way you describe.

Now, I can't speak for your "daze" experience, as that's something that, frankly, I've never heard of before. That doesn't make it any less real, but since it's something that's completely out of my experience I'm not a good person to comment on it.

Could be that your experience (as related in #2) was a good life-lesson, if nothing else. Certainly, there will be men you're attracted to that aren't sexually compatible, and sexually compatible men that don't turn your crank otherwise.

That's just the nature of the relationship beast. Yea, it can really suck sometimes. (I've recently been through this exact experience, where the intimacy was wonderful but the rest of the relationship left a lot to be desired. Really bummed me out! )

To draw those people towards you that will have both those sets of qualities, I suggest that you might want to re-frame your thoughts around sex as something to be enjoyed rather than something to be endured.

As for the fellow that you're interested in that hasn't made a move yet, it's very possible that he figures you've put him in the "friend zone" and like him as a buddy but not as a romantic partner. Bear in mind that generally guys don't do hints, subtle or overt. Life rewards action. If you want something, or someone, you're best off to go get it rather than wait for the universe to drop it at your feet.

[Pegasus]

Hello, Bliss Sage!

All kinds of sensitive topics are discussed on these forums.

I’m a little concerned about all the blacking out that you describe. Have you had any past traumatic childhood experiences or abuse? If so, a therapist should be able to help you work through some of this. If you do not have access to this kind of help anywhere in your area, try looking online (sorry, I don’t know of international resources off the top of my head; I only know of AASECT :: American Association of Sex Counselors, Educators & Therapists).

Sexual activity should be enjoyed by both parties. Your description of past sexual experience sounds almost like a description used in the book The Color Purple. Yes, men can become raving beasts when they are horny, but keep in mind that sex is powerful for women, too.

If the one you love has not come for you by now, then I would not expect that he will. There is no need to feel that you are betraying him. It is important that you share yourself with men whom you trust.


...

[Bliss Sage]

Hi cdn. Thanks for your kind reply.

Originally Posted by cdn2wheeler

From what's written here, you seem to have a lot of unresolved issues about sex. You mentioned that you hated sex, that it turns men into raving beasts, most men where you are bad

Just to clarify - when I wrote that I hated sex, it became that way due to the way I felt I was treated when the two guys I mentioned got in that mood. It was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I ceased to be a human being and turned into some kind of thing and it was like they didn't know who I was anymore.

Concerning the men - well, most of the ones where I currently am, and I say most to allow leeway for ones I've never met, are quite bad for me. If you knew where I am, chances are you would understand and agree.

and that though you got some pleasure out of this one-off tryst that's somehow a problem.

Well, it made me consider having a romantic relationship with him, maybe marriage - I don't want sex without marriage.

It's very possible, even likely, that these issues about sex being negative are drawing men to you that act in the very way you describe.

I never thought it was negative when I was younger - it just came with the experiences I mentioned above. I did have a lovely dream about my wedding night all through my teen years and even 20's. When I learned that I was at odds with society, I got resentful, hurt a lot...and, not surprisingly, abandoned and passed over by men for girls who would "put out". I came to feel worthless and also angry at all those girls in society who spoiled men with sex so much they won't even get to know me because I won't "put out". So much for my dream of my wedding night.

Could be that your experience (as related in #2) was a good life-lesson, if nothing else. Certainly, there will be men you're attracted to that aren't sexually compatible, and sexually compatible men that don't turn your crank otherwise.

So...does this mean it would be a mistake for me to become involved romantically and more with this guy? He was so different...not selfish or anything like he normally is. The way he was with me that night, that doesn't indicate that he will become more that way, say, loving, caring and gentle, in a full relationship? I mean, since I have been putting him off for like four months...

To draw those people towards you that will have both those sets of qualities, I suggest that you might want to re-frame your thoughts around sex as something to be enjoyed rather than something to be endured.

Well, I thought I had ... I have been working on reframing my thoughts concerning sex, but I haven't thought it was something merely to be endured. I sort of felt like the other two guys just didn't love me, or rather ... well, one loved me until he got horny and then he stopped. When he wasn't horny anymore, he loved me again.

As for the fellow that you're interested in that hasn't made a move yet, it's very possible that he figures you've put him in the "friend zone" and like him as a buddy but not as a romantic partner. Bear in mind that generally guys don't do hints, subtle or overt. Life rewards action. If you want something, or someone, you're best off to go get it rather than wait for the universe to drop it at your feet.

He's not in the friend zone. And there's nothing subtle about my self-expression when I love someone . He's the only guy in my life who's not in the friend zone. He's not near me. Suffice it to say...maybe he has better things to do with his life.

[cdn2wheeler]

There's a lot in here and I'm not quite sure where to start. So, let's take this one bit at a time. For instance,

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

I never thought it was negative when I was younger - it just came with the experiences I mentioned above. I did have a lovely dream about my wedding night all through my teen years and even 20's. When I learned that I was at odds with society, I got resentful, hurt a lot...and, not surprisingly, abandoned and passed over by men for girls who would "put out". I came to feel worthless and also angry at all those girls in society who spoiled men with sex so much they won't even get to know me because I won't "put out". So much for my dream of my wedding night.

I think I'm starting to see what's going on. Granted, I'm willing to be wrong here, but bear with me for a moment.

You mention that you don't want sexual relations outside of marriage. OK, that's fine.

What may be happening - and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this - is that you're holding yourself and your sexuality as some sort of prize. Something like, "If a guy does A, B, C in the right order, at the right time, in the right way and chooses to marry me, then I'll consent to have sex with him."

Do I have that right?

Because, if so, that may be the core of the problem, and it fits with your experiences.

When you hold out yourself and your sexual expression as some sort of prize or goal, you'll inevitably be treated as an object. Essentially, you're objectifying yourself. The result is that those other two guys (Messers. Jekyll and Hyde) treated you in the same way you treated yourself: as an object. Not as a human being worthy of love and respect and attention and caring, but as a prize.

But with the other fellow, there never was any objectification, you never set yourself up as some sort of prize because the relationship just wasn't on that level. So when intimacy did take place, there was no sense of conquest, which is why the experience was much more pleasurable.

As far as what other girls do or don't do, that's their personal issue. There's no real up-side in comparing yourself to them, because your history and background is different from theirs (as is theirs from yours). But don't diminish them in your eyes because they made different choices.

[Lauxa]

I just want to say that I felt that way about sex too. I would get very defensive if I felt like a man was trying to go faster than I wanted in the physical intimacy arena. I didn't want anyone to rush me. The thought that I was saving myself for that special someone while he was most likely bonking as many girls as possible was painful to me.

My circumstance was different because I was in college and surrounded by eligible bachelors. I decided I just wanted to date as many guys as possible, only short-term relationships. Ironically, as soon as I decided that I met the man I ended up marrying, and he was a virgin too, and very respectful and loving through the whole intimacy experience.

This guy does NOT sound right for you. If the relationship is painful, run as fast as you can and don't look back. When you find the right one, you will feel like you are floating on a cloud... at least at first... You need to find a man that treats you like a queen.

The fingering your undies thing creeps me out. I knew a guy in middle school who would feel up my leg during geometry class... and then never talk to me outside of class or even mention what he had done. It made me feel so uncomfortable and powerless because once I had let him get away with it once, I felt I could never stop him again. Just remember that because you do something once does NOT give another person unlimited access to the activity and you CAN change your mind.

About the daze, I have never heard of this happening. Is it possible you were drugged? I do have a friend that was given GHB once at a bar. Is there even the slightest possibility he could have slipped something in your drink or anything like that?

You say that there are few eligible males near you. Is there anything you could do to change this? I majored in electrical engineering both because it interested me and because of the 4:1 male/female ratio. My cousin, when deciding where to apply for jobs, researched the best cities for older singles. If you are abstaining for religious reasons, you could try an internet dating board that targets your religious group... Jessica met her husband on one of those. Steve and Erin met online. I'm just saying that if creating a relationship is important to you, there must be something you can do to increase your odds of meeting the right guy.

If there is any way of contacting the one you love, you should get that done and find out where you stand. If you are going to have a long distance relationship, you should at least get a commitment from him. If there is no mutual commitment, then you should be free to explore intimacy with others.

Finally, it sounds like you need some friends! Is there anything you can do to expand your social circle? I'm a bit of an introvert and have a hard time getting close to people, but I generally feel better when I am meeting with small groups of people on a semi-regular basis.

I believe that you are going through this experience to learn something about yourself, so don't be too hard on yourself if you make mistakes, pay attention to what you like and what you don't like, and follow your heart. We'll all be rooting for you.

[ixmatus]

It almost sounds like you're from India or Pakistan...

Jekyll and Hyde is something you are going to find in any sexual being - it is natural. It happened to you in your 'daze', didn't it? Appreciate the men that find you attractive and want to have sex with you, love the man that wants to have sex with you AND walk with you through life.

As for your 'daze', that is the hormone cocktail your brain releases into your nervous system - it's what keeps the human race alive sweetheart.

Testosterone stimulates the sex drive of both men and women, men have higher levels of it in their bodies than do women - for a good reason. The evolutionary and biological reasons should be evident, but, I do hope if you think about it, you may have some valuable insights into the sexuality of men.


Only thing you can do about the situation now (since it happened already) is to lighten up about it. Did it feel good? Atleast you now know what to look forward to in marriage, eh? No reason to be hard on yourself - we were made to enjoy this, not endure it.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by Pegasus

Hello, Bliss Sage!

Hi

All kinds of sensitive topics are discussed on these forums.

Yeah...but I never wanted mine to be one of them

I’m a little concerned about all the blacking out that you describe. Have you had any past traumatic childhood experiences or abuse? If so, a therapist should be able to help you work through some of this.

Well, I've had my fair share of childhood trauma and I've quit therapists, but I tried for years. One thought I had been sexually abused when I was young, but I think I would remember such a thing or there would be some sign of it otherwise.

If the one you love has not come for you by now, then I would not expect that he will. There is no need to feel that you are betraying him. It is important that you share yourself with men whom you trust.

That would be...no one

cdn: What you wrote was insightful. I have to take some time to consider it. But when you say no to a man, or even if you don't, isn't it always a conquest for him to get the girl in bed? My brother had a friend who collected "screws" and he was so proud of himself, as he had well over 1000 and he bragged about it. Isn't it always a conquest? How can I maintain my "virtue" without becoming a conquest?

For me, for some reason, physical intimacy (sex) means more to me than to others, it's not about religion. It's that if I share that part of me with someone and he leaves me, especially soon afterwards, I couldn't handle it. Nobody touches certain places, except me, and not just anybody and not many people either should be allowed to touch those places on me. It's not shaking hands and the only one I go to sleep with and wake up next to every single morning is my teddy bear (and he always falls on the floor ) .

I am not my body and men are blinded by their eyes. The body is the last thing to get to know, when he knows me and understands me and loves me, my heart and mind, as such, the body is the last thing to get to know. I am not my body. And I think I really feel hurt every time I perceive a man who appears to be interested in me only because he has been blinded by his eyes, and he has no idea who I am, how sensitive, or compassionate, empathetic, poetic, profound etc., as I know myself - he knows nothing about me and he thinks he loves me or he wants me, he even can think he knows me, just by looking at me, but I feel him, he is just blinded by his eyes. Sometimes I can be a bit hostile even, seemingly for no reason, or in response to flirtations, yet no matter how mean I think I am being, it never puts the guy off and he always comes back for more. (I don't get it )

I know what I am inside and seeing how men only see the outside and don't care about who I really am, or that sometimes they think they know me so well they tell me who I am, and they would gladly touch me and have sex with me, while not even caring who I am...it hurts me a lot. It makes me feel worthless. I am not my body.

Why I got angry at girls...I'm not comparing myself, but I had to suffer the repercussions of their indiscretions and be even more forceful in my principle. I had to make sure from the get-go that men knew they wouldn't be "getting any" ever, and they expect to be "getting some" at some point, because that's how girls have now "trained" men and "friendships/relationships" are that way now. And I always ended up pushing men away when they would be trying to talk me into having sex with them, and say "What do you need me for, go find one of the multitude of girls who will do it with you and leave me alone." Men don't need me when there's a willing girl around every corner. I was not put on the planet to quench men's burning lust, he can do that elsewhere.

Lauxa - It seems in every way they are rushing in this subject. It is impressive if I manage to interact long enough with a man without him alluding to something sexual, that I actually begin to start to think about it with him. That almost never happens. If he starts thinking about it first and alludes to it or talks about it, I get so put off.

Then there's the "doing" part where there is just no time to catch up to him at all. That's why I don't know what happened that night. One second I had my head on his shoulder, the next his lips were all over me. And I think if I ever had any inclination to be actively involved in that physical interaction, I couldn't be, because he is so...well, even...I mean, they are the agressor and don't really allow for any kind of reciprocation.

It's nice that you found your husband like that. I don't date. I never have.

I did not have a "relationship" with this guy, it was a "friendship." Even if I think that friendships between me and a guy can't exist. It always goes in this very direction. And we did talk about his fingering my undies and that whole incident. It wasn't creepy, don't worry. He was leaning his head on my shoulder and had his arm around my stomach/waist and his hand naturally fell right on my hip there, so his hand was already there. Says he was sleeping, but I think it was more half awake, half asleep. We did talk about this in the context of me telling him I didn't want him to do it again. I knew if it became a habit, it would become harder to get him to stop and it would also lead even farther. We didn't speak for a week after that.

I assure you, I wasn't drugged. We were just here in my room, eaten nothing, drank nothing except some pineapple juice from one of those little sealed boxes. In the past I notice when "fooling around" I get really weak and ... I don't know ... maybe I'm scared and it overtakes me ...? Maybe I don't know what's happening, maybe he's just going too fast...? It all makes me dizzy. It was never as severe as this time though. Maybe I would pass out during my first time .

You say that there are few eligible males near you. Is there anything you could do to change this? I majored in electrical engineering both because it interested me and because of the 4:1 male/female ratio. My cousin, when deciding where to apply for jobs, researched the best cities for older singles. If you are abstaining for religious reasons, you could try an internet dating board that targets your religious group... Jessica met her husband on one of those. Steve and Erin met online. I'm just saying that if creating a relationship is important to you, there must be something you can do to increase your odds of meeting the right guy.

Actually, Lauxa, I am in a place where every guy on the street is eligible (and plenty good-looking) and I could probably have nearly any one I wanted - and you would understand why if you knew the country I am in. The thing is, they are bad for me (they are men who are blinded by their eyes) and many are dishonest and unscrupulous. I came here to wait for the one guy I love and mentioned above.

I don't fit in with religious groups either, our views are not compatible.

I'm not looking for a relationship per se. Just... waiting...

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by ixmatus

It almost sounds like you're from India or Pakistan...

No, I'm from North America like most people on this site, but I may currently be in a country like India or Pakistan...

Jekyll and Hyde is something you are going to find in any sexual being - it is natural. It happened to you in your 'daze', didn't it?

No, when I was dazed, my behavior, feelings and personality didn't change and I was aware of him, who he was, us and what he was doing (though I was a bit stunned, as always), I just...felt faint and like I was going to fall asleep immediately or like I was going unconscious. I had enough strength and consciousness just to tell him not to do..."things". And once he quit, I lost consciousness, or blacked out (I thought).

I have now talked to him since and he told me that when he left, he told me he would take my key and the bottle of water in the fridge and he told me I actually answered him, but according to what I experienced, I was unconscious and have no recollection of him talking to me and certainly not of me responding to him.

Is that really hormones?

Appreciate the men that find you attractive and want to have sex with you, love the man that wants to have sex with you AND walk with you through life.

yes... that was so nicely put
but I can't tell one from the other, as the former will lead me to believe they are the latter one just to get something from me...actually, I don't want or like the former and I just want to skip them and go to the latter one...

In fact, I have now had (another) fight with this guy and ... I think everything is over now, "friendship" and the "relationship" that, according to him, we never even had because he says he was never interested in me. Yet he put me through torture all these past months with his neurotic behaviors, and spent so much time, flirting, flattering me and making me laugh too. From the start I knew he was bad for me, because he is a joker, I mean, everything out of his mouth is a "joke" and on more than one occasion (that I am aware of) he has hurt me a lot because he would be telling me a story that I believed and then he would tell me he was just joking. If it's true that he was never interested in me for anything, not even a relationship or anything, then I know that even most of everything he has ever said to me was just a joke, all that I believed was true.

This pain is why I wait for physical intimacy...but I'm even too weak to avoid physical intimacy, or else too stunned when confronted with the situation if it arises.

The evolutionary and biological reasons should be evident, but, I do hope if you think about it, you may have some valuable insights into the sexuality of men.

I would much rather have insights into their intentions and the sincerity of their behavior with me at any given moment of interaction with them. And then if they would not lie about them later on...

[JimOfferman]

Hey Bliss,

I think you should consider changing your views a little, in particular this bit:

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

I am not my body and men are blinded by their eyes.

You seem determined to find a man who only cares about who you are on the inside and has no regard for the packaging.

The problem I see here: men simply don't work that way! Of course, I am generalizing here, there is bound to be someone somewhere who is the exception to the rule. Still:

Attraction, for me at least, works from the outside in. I take notice of a lady because of how she looks, how she carries herself. Physical attraction always comes first for me. The physical attraction alone is not enough to really get me interested, though. There has to be substance below the nice exterior, if I am to grant her more than a few steely glances. In the end, I fall for someone because she is beautiful, smart, loving, tender, etc. But beauty does come first. All men I know feel this way.

If a man is attracted to your looks and to the feel of your body, that doesn't mean that he does not care about what is on the inside. I'd say that, in general, it is more the opposite. He'll be amazed that something so smart can come in such a nice package and be exhilarated that he is the one who gets to play with her.

love,
Jim.

[Parthon]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

I'm not looking for a relationship per se. Just... waiting...

What are you waiting FOR?

I just saw a few issues highlighted in your post/reply here. There seems to be a disconnect between yourself and your body, you even mentioned it yourself when you said "I am not your body." That statement is entirely true, but you do have a body, but you seem totally afraid of it. I could be wrong, but the very experience of getting dazed and unconscious when your body took over, I'm thinking your body wanted him to continue but knew that you were just going to say no, so it got you out of the way, unsuccessfully thankfully.

I'm thinking you need to get back in touch with your own body, and start to appreciate and experience it more. You are not your body, but you have a body, and a body is one of the greatest instruments on the planet. There's not much a human body can't do.

As for men and their hunger, I do think because of our excess testosterone that we tend to focus more on the physical side of women early on, but as the desire is sated, then we get more interested in who it really is. Unfortunately it's a side effect of being male, even when we are intelligent and care about better things that sex, it still springs up on us from time to time. There are those men to be avoided who think about only sex, but more than half of us really do care who you are even if our hormones don't.

As for being distant and not dating. That's not going to work either. All the nice guys out there are only driven so far in order to meet someone, and as rare as we are, we don't last long until some woman catches us. Only the guys that are bold enough to reach through to you, or those where you are bold enough to reach out to them will you meet. Unfortunately the first set of guys tend to be the sex crazed idiots you want to avoid and the latter are the self-pitying fools that try and turn everything into a drama. The whole thing is a matter of odds anyway. Say your perfect guy is 1 in a million. Then you have to meet a million guys to get your one. Learn how to say no to the other nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine.

Listen to your spirit, and not your mind or body, and you'll be led to the one you were meant to be with.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by Parthon

I could be wrong, but the very experience of getting dazed and unconscious when your body took over, I'm thinking your body wanted him to continue but knew that you were just going to say no, so it got you out of the way, unsuccessfully thankfully.

Omg, why did I not ask for help with this issue before?? (well, I know why...) Yes! My body and part of me absolutely wanted him to keep going! I don't know if that is the reason for my dazed unconscious feeling, but I certainly have to consider it!

And if this is true...I wonder where that leaves me...?

I'm thinking you need to get back in touch with your own body, and start to appreciate and experience it more. You are not your body, but you have a body, and a body is one of the greatest instruments on the planet. There's not much a human body can't do.

Jim: I'm not really out of touch with my body per se, in other contexts, I did gymnastics since I was young, I do yoga, even belly dancing (which I really like), but as far as men are concerned - they don't need to know any of that, because they are already overzealous, so I downplay the physical - I try to.

I absolutely, definitely want the man I love to love my body too and it's important to me, but 1. I'm not overly concerned that he won't like my body and 2. that is not where the problem is - it isn't and hasn't ever really been a problem to find men attracted to my body and want sex, but to love me, to know me and understand me, this is where the problem is, so I deliberately want to and do downplay the physical.

Only the guys that are bold enough to reach through to you, or those where you are bold enough to reach out to them will you meet. Unfortunately the first set of guys tend to be the sex crazed idiots you want to avoid and the latter are the self-pitying fools that try and turn everything into a drama.

Wow, you just described every guy who has ever been interested in me. The latter kind is the kind I had this incident with.

Well, note that I'm not looking, but where are the ones who don't fall into those categories? There are other kinds, right?

The latter kinds, they always play on my sympathy and always say things to make me feel guilty, blame me for things, especially the guy I had this incident with. He goes into sulking for nothing. Then they also say things that make me want to comfort them or hold them, help them...to make them feel better. Yet nothing makes them feel better, what I give or do is never enough.

Listen to your spirit, and not your mind or body, and you'll be led to the one you were meant to be with.

You asked what I'm waiting for - well, I'm waiting for the one I love who I believe I'm meant to be with (someone I know now)...or... I don't really know at all what I'm waiting for...

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

it isn't and hasn't ever really been a problem to find men attracted to my body and want sex, but to love me, to know me and understand me, this is where the problem is, so I deliberately want to and do downplay the physical.

I don't think you'll attract the kind of man you are looking for (one who loves your body and your mind), if you downplay the physical.

You should not think so much about avoiding attraction from the kind of man you don't want, but instead focus on attracting the type of man you do desire.

[Parthon]

I think you have to willing to start looking, and look lots, but be willing to say no to nearly all of them.

You sound very intelligent and quite beautiful, but even that is not going to have your perfect partner fall into your lap. He's out there somewhere, you just have to find him, and like a diamond in the rough he's probably going to be hard to find. The best thing I can think of is go on lots of dates, even though you don't want to. Just first dates, rarely second and never third, until you find the guy who likes you for you. If you get out there and mingle, meeting people all over, you will find him.

Again it goes back to statistics. If there's only a small chance of something happening, trying for it 1000 times instead of 100 means you have 10 times better chance of getting it, regardless, and any trying is better than none.

Jim is right too though, focus on what you want, then cut out all the guys who don't meet that, but use them for dating practice if you wish.

Waiting is not the way to go, it doesn't get you anything except older.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

You should not think so much about avoiding attraction from the kind of man you don't want, but instead focus on attracting the type of man you do desire.

Well, I agree in theory. In practice, I am not trying to get any man. What I have really been wanting for years are female friends. I was never able to make female friends. I would be satisfied just to have a few good female friends to spend time with and talk to about anything.

In the meantime, I guess I will try to stop focusing on the kind of men I don't want...or on men in general...? I always end up trying to settle for male friends, hence this thread.

Parthon: Thank you for the compliments. Despite the impression, I am not any more beautiful than other girls, and besides that I'm nearly 40, but I am in a country where fair skin and fair hair are rare and considered very beautiful (evidently). I wouldn't have this situation in other countries. But I stay here and wait for the one guy I came here for...the one my misguided spirit led me to .

[ixmatus]

Well, note that I'm not looking, but where are the ones who don't fall into those categories?

You're talking to them.


The advice you have been given is very good, let go of this depressive and strange sounding fellow - you are the company you keep. Lighten up and be easier about all of this.

Almost sounds like you should move! You would meet alot of men with similar ideas regarding sex/marriage in the religious community out here ('out here' as in USA). Although, when I was in India, every Indian guy I talked to said that pre-marital sex is much more common than most people think - mostly because it is taboo but no one will talk about it (why do you think they have such a crazy population?).

[JimOfferman]

Loose this belief:

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

I was never able to make female friends.

And you'll gain this:

I would be satisfied just to have a few good female friends to spend time with and talk to about anything.

I've been stuck in the "I can't make any friends" train of thought for a long, long time and it really doesn't help. I started making new friends within days of letting go of that disabilitating belief.

(disclaimer: You do need to go out to make new friends - obviously, they won't just come knocking on your door. Most of the sane ones don't, anyway)

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by ixmatus

You're talking to them.

Oh .

The advice you have been given is very good, let go of this depressive and strange sounding fellow - you are the company you keep. Lighten up and be easier about all of this.

Almost sounds like you should move! You would meet alot of men with similar ideas regarding sex/marriage in the religious community out here ('out here' as in USA). Although, when I was in India, every Indian guy I talked to said that pre-marital sex is much more common than most people think - mostly because it is taboo but no one will talk about it (why do you think they have such a crazy population?).

ixmatus, Jim:

I'm "intending" to attract better people, friends, and to move away from this apartment where I cannot avoid this guy. I want to find more positive, upbeat people, more normal ones who don't only want something from me, but who actually like to be with me.

Until now, I have been attracting and drawn to guys like this one, who are suffering, because I want to comfort and help them (I used to be suffering a lot, depressed, suicidal, so when I see my suffering in someone else, I get a strong emotion in my heart), and as they see I am sensitive to them, they are drawn to me I guess, and I learn all of their miseries, but it becomes a circle and this guy in particular is more neurotic and hell-bent on his misery than anyone before, he is 100% impermeable to any feeling of love or concern I might have for him and there are many other problems about his behavior. He also treats me quite badly, as a fellow human, as a friend, or more.

Moreover, these past 2 weeks I have been trying to identify bad beliefs I have and change them, because I really don't like the kind of people I get in my life and I spend almost all my time alone and have done for years and years.

I was so afraid to post about this on here, but I am so thankful I did and I am so thankful for all the good and helpful responses I got. Thank you all so much .

[ixmatus]

You are making things worse by hanging around with him, he obviously isn't man enough to stand up and reclaim his own happiness, why should you be associating with this 'I need mommy because I am too depressed' dude?

Be woman enough to reclaim your happiness and honor, it is but a thought away, and the person you become because of it will be far more powerful.

It is ridiculous that you hang around with this guy - there is so much out there for you; honor and love yourself.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by ixmatus

You are making things worse by hanging around with him, he obviously isn't man enough to stand up and reclaim his own happiness, why should you be associating with this 'I need mommy because I am too depressed' dude?

Be woman enough to reclaim your happiness and honor, it is but a thought away, and the person you become because of it will be far more powerful.

It is ridiculous that you hang around with this guy - there is so much out there for you; honor and love yourself.

Thanks...I don't hang around with him anymore. As I wrote above, we got in another fight and we're not speaking. I haven't seen him since the fight either and by now we are pretty good at ignoring one another when passing by.

It's sad, because before I got to know him "too well", and when he is not being his miserable self, he is delightfully funny and uplifting.

I have got an enormous lift from this thread and all the people writing good substantial advice to me that I did something fun last night I haven't done in a few years, but used to do a lot and I feel pretty good. This is also due to the fact that I have found a solution to my "man" situation/problem that I feel quite happy and comfortable with .