guys night out

[wolfgang]

So I normally have a guys night out on tues but that was shifted to wed. I told my gf last night, since I came home early compared to the normal tues, that the guys are getting together wed. She didn't quite get it since I left a note this morning saying I'll be out with the guys tonight - and she called me at work and chewed my ear about it. Saying how she puts wed aside because it's the only night she and I can hang (bs, I'm around all weekend with her) but I was hanging tues evening.

It just pissed me off and makes me feel jailed. Something isn't right that we have to have issues about me changing a night. I maybe realize I'm not at the same level in the relationship with my gf that she is. Or she relies on my company too much. I have thought that am about to can this relationship, and move out (which I should have done a while ago). Instead I goof up because I'm not operating as my gf expects. Actually I don't feel like she is a gf. I feel I have left her but not changed the amount of time we spend together. There's a mismatch going on that is stressful. I've been hanging on with whatever excuse to not leave but we really aren't having the relationship of my dreams right now. And I am not going to be able to make her and I into what I want, I know this but haven't taken the step to move out and move on.

So, just tell me to leave her already so she and I can be spared this drama.

[mlc82]

As long as you didn't already have something special planned with her that night (this could include an agreed upon "just you and me" night) and especially if you'll also see her plenty over the weekend, then just do your thing and let her throw her fit. Really feminine women tend to pull stunts like this often in my experience- I've dated both, very feminine girls (my current gf is) and girls who acted more like guys. The 2nd category was much easier to always get along with, however I'm just much more attracted to feminine women, and I've also been told that I have next to no feminine qualities, so the old "opposites attract" idea might be why.

You can always check this site out as well, some of it's over the top but it has some relevant articles: Masculine Power Development, Spirituality, Self-improvement, & Dating Advice at Yang Town

Edit: on the 2nd paragraph of yours, that's more something you'd have to decide yourself (IMO) since only you know what you're feeling like in regard to it... I've had the most fun to date in relationships once I dropped the idea of ever wanting to marry, although women tend to dislike that (my current gf sure does)...

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

So, just tell me to leave her already so she and I can be spared this drama.

You don't need us for that, you can just hire a parrot!

Seriously, though, it looks like you have already made up your mind. Maybe you should act on it?

[absvan]

Is that the only reason? Then I think you just need to sit down and talk. I dont see this as a reason to break up.

The second paragraph sounds like there are more issues...well thats how it come across to me. How about taking a break so that you can clear your head. Things might give you a better perspective.

[uberinquisitive]

May I offer you a female perspective?

I have often pulled what your gf is pulling. One time, my bf was 30 minutes late for a concert, and I cried. I mean, the main act hadn't even gone on stage yet (and I didn't even like the opening act), and I told him he had ruined my night.

Yes, I do it because I'm needy and insecure. But, underneath it all, I do it because I haven't learned there is a better way. I know it may make absolutely no sense to a guy - but many girls don't know a better alternative. Our neediness makes the guy withdraw, and then we become even more needy. It's a vicious cycle of total miscommunication.

I'm assuming that your gf has a couple of redeeming qualities. She's just not self-aware enough to realize that her behavior is awful. I suggest the following:

- Ask her to put together a fun day of activities. Something besides just hanging out in the house. Tell her that next week, you'll plan the activities. And then just cycle off.

- Sit her down, hug her, and tell her, "I realize you feel really alone when I go out with my guys. So, on those days, why don't you also schedule time with your female friends? We'll make it a mutual "friends only" day."

- What sort of hobbies does she like? Tell her you think it's very attractive when she's busy and passionate about something. Suggest she take a class or something. Women actually enjoy being "mothered" like this. It makes them feel loved.

I know this sounds like a lot of work...but it's easier to make an existing relationship better, than to start a new relationship (which will probably be the same animal, just a different color).

[Angela]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I feel I have left her but not changed the amount of time we spend together.

Wolfgang, my guess is that your girlfriend is relating to you right now as a ghost -- you're not present for her, but you're not gone either. This can make a person feel really unstable and panicky and freaked out.

How honest have you been with her about what's going on for her in the relationship? It sounds like you've been keeping her out of the loop on what you're thinking and feeling.

I think that whether you stay or go, you'll be glad if you clean this up with her, have integrity, be straight with her and with yourself, and do the right thing for yourself. You like her enough to part with her with lots of love, don't you, if that's what it comes to? Wouldn't that be better than parting with her with acrimony and regret? You'll be making it easier for both of you to go freely forth and find good matches for yourselves, free of leftover pain. Just be straight.

Best wishes.

[ixmatus]

Make up or break up man, make it simple and decisive - it's what we do best.

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive

May I offer you a female perspective?

I have often pulled what your gf is pulling. One time, my bf was 30 minutes late for a concert, and I cried. I mean, the main act hadn't even gone on stage yet (and I didn't even like the opening act), and I told him he had ruined my night.

Yes, I do it because I'm needy and insecure. But, underneath it all, I do it because I haven't learned there is a better way. I know it may make absolutely no sense to a guy - but many girls don't know a better alternative. Our neediness makes the guy withdraw, and then we become even more needy. It's a vicious cycle of total miscommunication.

I'm assuming that your gf has a couple of redeeming qualities. She's just not self-aware enough to realize that her behavior is awful. I suggest the following:

- Ask her to put together a fun day of activities. Something besides just hanging out in the house. Tell her that next week, you'll plan the activities. And then just cycle off.

- Sit her down, hug her, and tell her, "I realize you feel really alone when I go out with my guys. So, on those days, why don't you also schedule time with your female friends? We'll make it a mutual "friends only" day."

- What sort of hobbies does she like? Tell her you think it's very attractive when she's busy and passionate about something. Suggest she take a class or something. Women actually enjoy being "mothered" like this. It makes them feel loved.

I know this sounds like a lot of work...but it's easier to make an existing relationship better, than to start a new relationship (which will probably be the same animal, just a different color).

Good post. Women really would do better if they could just understand that for a lot of us guys, needy or irrationally insecure behaviour is SCARY. Ideally, in a relationship, I want a girl who loves being with me and would generally elect to spend her free time doing just that, but not one who NEEDS to or feels like something's wrong, can't concentrate on anything, etc.

Another thing I've learned from experience (and I have plenty to go, I'm only 25) is that no matter how much fun it can be, relationships can also be WORK. Again, I do not ever want to get married, I cannot clarify this enough, and I think this realization is partly why.

It requires a hell of a lot of thinking for most men if they want to figure out WHY their woman has apparently gone insane with something or another (the situation you described is perfect- breaking into tears or becoming angry over something that the man sees as silly or irrational, or just flat out over the top/exaggerated- you may feel justified, but to us men it really does appear that you've lost you mind). What most women (again I do not say "all") don't seem to understand is that, when they call their man and start crying about some unrequited situation that logically seems to have an obvious, direct way to fix, our initial thought is usually something like "Why the hell are you complaining on and on about this? Shut up and go fix it!". This is what we'd say to our male friends, and also what our Dad's, or any other masculine father figure, maybe an older brother, have likely said to us at some point in our lives (I got quite a few memorable one-liners from my dad during my headstrong, angry teen years).

Don't get me wrong, I love feminine women and their quirks, however too much of this too often will probably drive any man far away due to it just being too much to handle.

*I probably went off topic here- if so, please excuse my caffeine induced raving *

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by mlc82

As long as you didn't already have something special planned with her that night (this could include an agreed upon "just you and me" night) and especially if you'll also see her plenty over the weekend, then just do your thing and let her throw her fit...

Yup - that's what I am doing. Go hang with some guys and let her throw a fit if she feels the need too. She actually is of the tom boy type but also has the insecurities and need to have me be clear enough to be reassured I'm not bloting (again). I have broken it off with her before and then we tried doing things as friends that eventually caused us to hook up and then sort be in a relationship again.

Originally Posted by JimOfferman;

You don't need us for that, you can just hire a parrot!
Seriously, though, it looks like you have already made up your mind. Maybe you should act on it?

The act of acting this out builds up in me and then there's some life (or death) event that gets in my way to go for moving out. Like I'm waiting for some perfect time to break up and move out - which may never exist - that perfect time to act.

Originally Posted by uberinquisitive;

May I offer you a female perspective?

Thanks for the ideas for working on the relationship. But I don't have it in me to try with her. I have spent many years with her in a mode of wondering what I'm doing with her and at times it's been good and fun. There's a rut now that we are in and I don't have attraction or affection, just maybe friend feelings on my side. Then it's hard because of all the time we have been around each other and activities we do still have in common.

Originally Posted by Angela;

Wolfgang, my guess is that your girlfriend is relating to you right now as a ghost -- you're not present for her, but you're not gone either. This can make a person feel really unstable and panicky and freaked out.

So true - and I'm tired of being a ghost and struggling to seem like I'm there when I'm thinking independantly a lot. It's one thing to want to be a little independant and really be into someone because a lot of the choices would be to spend time with the other in that case. But is just seems like I think of going and doing something on my own and not inviting her along - and she does the wanting to include me in everything she does.

Originally Posted by Angela;

You like her enough to part with her with lots of love, don't you, if that's what it comes to? Wouldn't that be better than parting with her with acrimony and regret? You'll be making it easier for both of you to go freely forth and find good matches for yourselves, free of leftover pain. Just be straight.

Hitting the nail on the head. How to part in a loving way - I would like that. And I hear myself telling myself to be true to myself which is like you say "be straight".

Originally Posted by ixmatus;

Make up or break up man, make it simple and decisive - it's what we do best.

A friend says this as : "sh$t or get off the pot"

Originally Posted by mlc82;

Good post. Women really would do better if they could just understand that for a lot of us guys, needy or irrationally insecure behaviour is SCARY. Ideally, in a relationship, I want a girl who loves being with me and would generally elect to spend her free time doing just that, but not one who NEEDS to or feels like something's wrong, can't concentrate on anything, etc.

I actually don't think women are generally that way. It's usually a dynamic that the guy is being aloof or (like me) not too into her and that drive the woman nuts. I see it as a pattern between two. The "needy or irrational insecure behaviour" is born of the other not being able to say "I really do want to relate to you". Instead there's one saying "I kind of want to be with you and it's ok enough but..." and the the other gets to feel nuts.

Originally Posted by mlc82;

Another thing I've learned from experience (and I have plenty to go, I'm only 25) is that no matter how much fun it can be, relationships can also be WORK. Again, I do not ever want to get married, I cannot clarify this enough, and I think this realization is partly why.

I understand about maintainence of relationships can seem like work - but it's my idea that it doesn't feel like work when there's a desire for keeping the connection close. The work will feel like joy because the connection gets stronger and closer and juicer. The motivation will be there automatically, instead of having to muster it up and "work" at it. And some of that is just deciding you want to be with someone and liking how the chemistry of the connection is that you wouldn't want to do anything that takes away from that.

Originally Posted by mlc82;

It requires a hell of a lot of thinking for most men if they want to figure out WHY their woman has apparently gone insane with something or another (the situation you described is perfect- breaking into tears or becoming angry over something that the man sees as silly or irrational, or just flat out over the top/exaggerated- you may feel justified, but to us men it really does appear that you've lost you mind).

I don't know - seems like it about expectations. Sometimes guys "forget" they have set up expectations and the women gets to feel the rug pulled out from under them.



Thanks for replies - just needed some venting,
Wolfie the ghost.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Hitting the nail on the head. How to part in a loving way - I would like that. And I hear myself telling myself to be true to myself which is like you say "be straight".

Yes, I mean be true to yourself; I also mean be true to her -- in the sense that you tell her the truth. You do yourself and her no favors by beating around the bush, and although the pain of a breakup may be sharp, it's not nearly as bad as the pain of being needlessly strung along in the limbo of an inauthentic life.

[Wulfen]

I would not recommend you to split up with her just because of this, or for a series of events like this one.

Why? Because this is drama. Women create drama all the time. If we were to break up with a girl everytime she makes a fuss out of something seemingly unimportant, couples would not last at all and humanity would become extinct

So let me explain, before people jump at my throat for saying that women love drama:

Women need emotion in their relationships.

It's kinda difficult for us guys to understand, because we guys don't need a roller coaster of emotions in our lives. We prefer to have an stable emotional state, all the time.

We guys need action. We need to get stuff done, solve problems, have steamy sex, all this.

Women wonder why guys love sports so much. That's because they're full of action.

Men wonder why women love soap operas so much. That's because they're full of emotions.

So the fact that a guy does not give her girl enough emotions is similar to a girl not letting him play sports, have sex... or have a guys' night out. It would drive you crazy.

And the lack of emotions drive women crazy. Like a steam engine, they need to vent or they explode. And when they explode they make a fuss out of ordinary stuff. They create drama so that there is emotion on their lives. They crave the tension of quarreling with you. And the great make-up sex afterwards.

She's communicating in the emotional channel.

But you are listening in the logical channel. You think she's being a brat, a control freak or that she's trying to dominate you. Which might be true on its own also, google for "betaization". But most possibly she's creating drama just to stir the relationship. And to test your character.

Wulfen's recipe:

- Corteously but firmly put her back on her place. Go to your guys' night out by all means. Don't try to argue logically, say you go because you want to, or that you need to vent some steam, or whatever, but don't look for a complex logical explanation.

- Don't lose your temper with her. Lead her emotions to make her see how silly she's behaving. Don't become irate or raise your voice. It's better to joke around the issue (but without disrespecting her).

- At some point, just say something like: "hey, you know what? come here", hug her and kiss her, and if possible have sex with her afterwards.

Regards,