Women aren't attracted to men

[Calculusaurus]

This is a rant from "best of craigslist"...

Women are not actually attracted to men. There is a vague idea of what a man is physically, and some are better than others aesthetically speaking, but the purely physical appearance of a man is almost inconsequential unless he is horribly ugly or outrageously attractive.

Women are attracted to status, money, how much a man smiles and laughs, how many friends and resources a man has, how full a man's life is--how many "cool," "exciting" and prestigious things he is doing or connected to.

They are interested in how other people view him--how many people want to be around him, how other people interact with him and whether their interactions convey that he is special and amazing. They want him to be extremely outgoing and aggressive, they want him to demonstrate his status over other people by dominating them in various non-violent ways.

A woman's attraction to a man is a function of her jealousy at the thought of another woman having that man. She doesn't care who he actually is or EXACTLY what he looks like physically, she only cares about the VALUE of the life he has constructed around himself.

A woman basically is a greedy materialistic prostitute. Although that sounds vulgar, it's true. She trades her physical self to buy into the success a man has created for himself.

As a man, I fall in love with how a woman is physically. I fall in love with simple parts of a woman. Like the way her hair falls around her face, the line of her neck, her shoulders. They way her ears might peek from her hair. Her eyelashes. The size and shape of her hands, her fingernails. The way she walks, the way she looks when she is tired or annoyed, the sound she makes when she sneezes, coughs, or cries. The way she sits in a chair. The way she breathes while experiencing different emotions. The way her lips move. A million little things.

Sure, a huge part of my attraction is mental, but the powerful seed of love that builds within me and crystallizes is based greatly on visual things that set off torrents of emotion and need.

It seems to me that women almost cannot think for themselves. Their estimates of worth are based on other peoples' estimates of worth. They don't really find an object beautiful on their own. The object becomes beautiful when other people let her know that it is beautiful.

I'm completely unable to reconcile the differences between men and women. It seems like success with women is equal to spending half of your life working to create a giant illusion, something vastly tiring and annoying, while sacrificing your own true self and your own interests. We construct our lives around nest-building. We're like male birds building nests and showing them off to attract mates. It's pathetic. Everything we do is to get women. It is a ****ing **** deal.

Someone needs to invent a drug which has no hormonal imbalance side-effects but is able to erase a man's sex drive and attraction to women. It would increase productivity rates to incredible heights. I'd be free and happy. I'd feel complete. I'd be able to concentrate on my biochemistry studying.

What do you guys think of this?

I found myself nodding in agreement with much of it. I'm not pulling the standard "I can't get laid" complaint. I've always had comfortable success with my experiences with women. But most of those successes were the result of what this guy calls "nest-building," that tiring process of showing a women that you're an alpha male of status who will bring excitement to her life. Sometimes I wish I didn't have to go through that so that I could focus more on my own interests.

I guess this craiglist article reflects a small amount of my recent cynicism toward the unfortunate psychology of male-female attraction. Maybe it's just that these observations are disproportionately true in my environment (college)... Who knows.

Thoughts?

[Rose of Cairo]

LOL


my post is too short. So, again: LOL

That's all I have to say to such a BS

[Ree]

LOL. I agree with you Rose, it's laughable. Sounds like some folks have been hanging out in the wrong places having encounters with the wrong women

[Calculusaurus]

I know his bitter tone doesn't exactly make you ladies sympathize with him, but bear with me here...

Get past his harsh vocabulary and look at what he's really saying...

[Ree]

It's one great big generalization.

[kellyrued]

I've no problem with his bitter tone... people who've been unlucky in love (or lust) usually get down about it at least once in a while. But his sexism and generalizing is really off the mark. I don't know one woman for whom these sentiments would apply. Status-chasing women looking to trade their bodies for second-hand wealth, fame, and admiration based on a mate's status are actually few and far between, imo. Those kinds of girls just happen to be some of the most "visible" to particularly shallow and immature males (sorry but if the only thing that makes you "fall" for a woman is visual stimuli... get some standards or think with the big head for a while).

I don't have anything but anecdotal evidence but I'd say most women are attracted to a mate's personality and what kind of chemistry they have when they are together or interacting. Beyond that, it really varies wildly (even with a single woman! I've had relationships primarily based on physical attraction, ones based on mutual interests and humor, even one based in part on shared personal tragedy/mutual understanding of hardship). If either sex in a hetero relationship were easy to put a generic label on... it wouldn't be the women. We're too damn diverse. As for the guys... well, looks matter. Most men of any intelligence, maturity, or taste will have *additional* traits that they seek out in females (or at least appreciate when they come with the physical ones as a bonus), but largely you can bet most men have a "john" like assessment of women more than women have a "hooker" like assessment of men. However I don't for a second think that most men form *relationships* based solely on that initial physical appraisal. Nope, in fact, many people eventually find that they are happier compromising some of their "physical goddess wishlist" so they can just have a mate that doesn't drive them crazy or ruin their life (in other words, with enough successful relationship experience people figure out what really makes or breaks it for them). The guy who wrote that rant about women just doesn't yet know what "breaks" his deal with a woman.

He's so busy looking at the physical traits he fails to notice why the types of women he's pursuing are NOT making him happy and most likely are NOT compatible with him on many levels (for example, many status-conscious guys are VERY proud and happy to be exactly the guy this whiner-baby is hating trying to look like-- they are the *real* alpha males that these status-hungry hotties are looking for, and this dude should stop fronting and step aside so like can seek like). There are a mother ton of women who do not care what car a man drives (if any) but then there are the women who can't be seen with a man who doesn't have at least a respectable ride (and the ones who are so picky they seriously only date guys with extremely expensive cars). The latter groups are fetishists, people with extremely specific desires/needs in a relationship where status really is important. There is nothing wrong with that, but you can't get a woman like that if you aren't cut out to provide her those status fetish objects. Just like a guy who doesn't have a sweet, pervy sense of humor is not cut out to provide the conversation/joking around I need to be happy. This guy ranting just needs to see that his desire to not provide those status symbols to a mate is IMPORTANT self knowledge. He's learning (slowly it sounds like). He knows that's not who he is, what he wants to become, how he wants to live, etc. He just hasn't yet connected this dissatisfaction to changing his behavior to seek out girls who are NOT like the ones he is unhappy with so far. Maybe he needs to broaden his social circle in general, date women from different economic/social classes, women with different life goals, different careers, different expectations and dreams in life than the ones he is finding now. But sitting around making up BS about all the women on earth (most of whom he's obviously never really listened to or gotten to know beyond the sound of their sneezes... wtf, btw, lol)... that's just going to make him unattractive to the kinds of women he probably should be checking out right now (the ones who are more interested in personality, sex, anything but status really). Cuz I think that only the status-whore type chicks are going to put up with a guy who talks like that about women in general (you get more slack when you're paying for it... literally... the rest of us have to actually LIKE you).

[NotesMaeve]

To counter that, here's (some of the reasons) why I love my fiance:

The perfect little gray patch on the left side of his head.

The way his curls feel resting underneath my hands lying in bed.

His passion for music.

The way his eyelashes are so dark for a blond.

The fact he's left-handed.

The way he purses his lips when he's really listening.

The way he is kind and engaging to babies and animals on a very personal level.

The way he treats waitstaff so naturally like you'd treat a friend - There's no falsity about it.

The way his legs feel burning hot and his waist feels cool when touching him at night.

The way I can wake up to him just sitting beside me at 6 AM gently rubbing my back.

I guarantee the men who agree with the Craigslist thing are not so giving, so sweet, and so wonderful. You want a woman who is sweet and giving and wonderful? Be sweet, giving, and wonderful, even before you meet the woman of your dreams, even before you're dating. Before Slamhot and I were dating, the first time we hung out, he gave me the biggest hug, initiated by him. Not because he was trying to grab my ass, but because he's a loving man who shows his appreciation for things he enjoys in a sweet and friendly way.

He's not the only guy I have dated who was like this. And two more ladykillers I dated:

I liked M because:

He had killer hair.

He was incredibly funny. (Mind you, I was 17 and he was 19. Making me think he was witty was slightly less difficult. )

He was so very sweet and kind during his volunteer work I worked with him on. I got to see him interact with young kids, and he was just amazing.

He had the cutest nose (before I met Slamhot) that I have ever seen.

He was just brilliant. Didn't take notes in college. SMART!

Other dude we'll call C:

This man was a freaking genius.

Again, super clever and funny.

NO ONE knew more about literary criticism than C. OMG SMART. <3

Just an aura of sexiness about him. Physically, he was okay, but just screamed sexy. I remember one time he was teaching me how to dance "The Rape." (Yes, actual dance.) Melts my butter to think of his gyrating hips. Good dancer. Damn good dancer.

Always treated me like a lady in this quiet dignified way where I never questioned it. This way of looking in my eyes and touching my hand and making sure he opened every door for me.

My point is, it ain't the car or the cash. Those things help; I won't lie, but trust me: If you work to be a considerate, loving person, attractive women will not stay away, in the same way that loving, sexy, successful men won't stay away if you work to be a loving, considerate woman (or gay/bi man, whatever ).

[rush23]

IMO, the piece is completely biased and misinformed.

As a woman, I find it completely insulting that the writer states that most women are just interested in a man's status. That is akin to saying that all men care for in a woman is a hot piece of a$$.

I'm sure there are women who are just with men because of what they've got, but those unfortunate individuals are in the minority and give us a bad name.

For the record, what I'm attracted to in a man goes much deeper than material status to physical attributes. It is that indescribable 'thing' that I just can't put my finger on. Also, it's not the what, but the how that really does it for me.

[votoshka]

Well, I agree there are some women like that in the world...just as there are some men who will only go out with tall, slim, big breasted blonde women!

What gets me is his line "As a man, I fall in love with how a woman is physically" So he's basically saying he falls in love with how a woman looks. Is that any better than the woman who falls in love with men for their status? And is it actually any different??

And while he's falling for these beautiful women, they're falling for the rich high status guys!

As for me, I am attracted to guys physically definitely, but what's more important is what's inside...their kindness, their personality etc. etc. I'd love to be rich, and sure it'd be convenient to fall in love with a rich guy! But I'm more likely to fall in love with some poor student (which describes the man I am in love with now!!) Now, it'd be great if some day he had a good job don't get me wrong! But that's hardly top of my agenda...

I think in the real world you find very few women like this man describes, and thankfully you also find few men who will only go out with traditionally beautiful women!

[Zukin]

Men are just as much to blame, since they don't have free will either:

Free Will: Now You Have It, Now You Don’t - New York Times

This is a total lie:

As a man, I fall in love with how a woman is physically. I fall in love with simple parts of a woman. Like the way her hair falls around her face, the line of her neck, her shoulders. They way her ears might peek from her hair. Her eyelashes. The size and shape of her hands, her fingernails. The way she walks, the way she looks when she is tired or annoyed, the sound she makes when she sneezes, coughs, or cries. The way she sits in a chair. The way she breathes while experiencing different emotions. The way her lips move. A million little things.

Silly craigslist author, you don't even realize that you don't have free will!

Plus it's so stupidly saccharine sweet. There's no way he actually believes that.

[Halcyon]

lol... well...

Someone needs to invent a drug which has no hormonal imbalance side-effects but is able to erase a man's sex drive and attraction to women. It would increase productivity rates to incredible heights. I'd be free and happy. I'd feel complete. I'd be able to concentrate on my biochemistry studying.

They do.... its called Zoloft... its a side affect.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

This guy sounds like he doesn't like women in the slightest.

[Angela]

Well, people have their beliefs about romantic relationships as if it were THE TRUTH, and we carry that into our relationships and make it so, over and over again. It's too bad that we rob ourselves of the freedom of encountering each new person with a beginner's mind, but the good news is that even if we are married to these limiting beliefs now, we are free to practice dumping them and generating something new for ourselves that works better in creating a romance (and a life) we love.

This guy has been hurting, and maybe he'll continue to carry this pooh-pooh around and keep on hurting. Or maybe the act of offloading it on Craig's List will give him the opportunity to examine it and see that he doesn't need it anymore. I hope that he's able to unburden himself of his "Truth" so that he can generate a new truth for his next relationship, and have it be joyful for both parties.

That's a good thing to ask a prospective partner on a first date: "What do you know is The Truth about romantic relationships?" Find out what they're already married to, so you can see if there's room for you in that marriage! Take a look at what he's willing to let go of, and what he holds onto with white knuckles. And look at that for yourself, too; you might be surprised by what you're creating in relationships with your own beliefs.

[Zukin]

Originally Posted by Angela

Find out what they're already married to, so you can see if there's room for you in that marriage!

In some cases it's also important to find out who they're married to.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Zukin

In some cases it's also important to find out who they're married to.

Yes! That's another question I make a point of asking on the first date. You would be amazed at the answers I've gotten.

[Matthew Shea]

It sounds like that that Craigslist poster is upset not that women aren't attracted to men, but that they're not attracted to HIM! Along the lines of what Rose said, what this guy says is laughable and a bunch of BS.

[Brien]

"...I'd be able to concentrate on my biochemistry studying."

HA HA HA



That is the punchline to the joke. It makes me question the seriousness of his post. Poor fellow has become a parody of male insecurity if he's serious.

It also makes me wonder about the kind of women this guy has in his life. Where's his mother? Did he have any sisters? Surely he wasn't just grown in the windowless biochemistry lab he currently dwells in.

[Peleke4]

I feel this applies mainly to some of the super attractive women.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Calculusaurus

I know his bitter tone doesn't exactly make you ladies sympathize with him, but bear with me here...

Get past his harsh vocabulary and look at what he's really saying...

Hi Calculusaurus,

I'm sorry I made fun of him if that's something you have a real problem with. I'm sorry you feel this way, this must be quite unpleasant.

Get past his harsh vocabulary what he's really saying is still BS IMO. Don't expect me to seriously discuss such statements.

If you think such things about women, you'll attract such women into your life, confirming what you think about women... You're getting what you expect to get. You should change your mind about women and the whole male-female interaction. Then you'll attract another kind of women!

And you should be what you want to get in the first place. If you're dating girls only for their appearance or their great ass, don't be surprised if they turn out to be superficial chicks dating you for your social status, money or car. Like attracts like.

Be genuinely interested in the whole woman and you'll see that there are plenty of nice girls genuinely interested in you out there.

[JimOfferman]

Ah, c'mon y'all... it isn't all bad. I really liked this bit:

As a man, I fall in love with how a woman is physically. I fall in love with simple parts of a woman. Like the way her hair falls around her face, the line of her neck, her shoulders. They way her ears might peek from her hair. Her eyelashes. The size and shape of her hands, her fingernails. The way she walks, the way she looks when she is tired or annoyed, the sound she makes when she sneezes, coughs, or cries. The way she sits in a chair. The way she breathes while experiencing different emotions. The way her lips move. A million little things.

That sounds about right.

For the rest of it, it does seem as if he has based his entire perception of women on Cruella de Vil alone. Now, that is one nasty lady!

[bamfblog]

values more than looks, I certainly think so too. however, the one's he's rambling on about, no.

[The Cloud]

And what is it that men do? Do they really pursue women for the kind of people they are, mentally and physically, or do they pursue them because they see a woman with good qualities as a trophy to be won in competition with other males? That's one thing that I've recently noticed about myself, and have decided is wrong, is that I saw women that I liked as trophies to be won, competitions to be won or lost. And I can't imagine that I am a minority in having this view, not in the ultra-competitive society we live in today. I'm not even a competitive person, I see it as a waste of time, so what chance do other men have of being different? It's just the different aspects of the same issue, women go for men because they perceive him as being desirable by other women and therefore worthy of her pursuit, and men go for women because they perceive her as being desirable and therefore worthy of fighting and competing against other men for.

[votoshka]

Well it's quite interesting the way different people go about pursuing a mate, I guess!

I don't think I've ever pursued a man as a trophy to be won, or whatever. (I don't think I've ever actively pursued any one though!! I always admired the men I liked from afar )

I guess, I would just fall for a guy for the qualities he possesses (okay looks are a part of that, but if a guy I thought I liked turned out to be a jerk, he'd appear less appealing in my eyes) but I've never really thought of men I liked in terms of their status in society (of course, most of my single life was spent as a student, surrounded by other students, most of whom had no money anyway!

But even now, I think it would be nice to be with a man who had money, it just isn't really that important. When I fall in love, I just don't fall in love with those aspects of the person!

I hope some of that makes sense

But I definitely disagree that women aren't attracted to men, because for me, at least, attraction has always been the deciding factor!! And after initial attraction, it's always been the personality of the man, the basic facets of what make him who he is...his kindness and sensitivity, his sense of humour, his intelligence etc. etc. never his money or his status!

[ella]

I agree that some women feel attracted to men due to their status, social circles and other things deemed material, just as some men feel attracted to women due to their physical attributes.

I do not think one is inherently superior or more worthy of notions of true love than another.

After all, both sets of qualities are very often a result of our own efforts and focus, and both can change over time. Is it more shallow to be attracted to a man because he's rich than it is to be attracted to a woman because she's pretty? I feel that's debatable.

[votoshka]

Ella, I agree. I think that's sort of what I was trying to say in an earlier post... to me there's little difference between a woman being attracted to a man because of his "status" and a man being attracted to a woman purely based on her physical attributes.

Which is where I had an issue with that whole Craigslist article in the first place... here was a guy complaining that women were only after men for status, while he made it clear that what he appreciated in women was their physical beauty!

But I struggle to believe that "True Love" can exist with either scenario! Real love has to go beyond looks and status...

[Holistic Star]

Ha Ha - reminds me of my 'if anyone asks me for a date I'll accept' policy (which I soon revised)

Conversation went like this:

Him: I've got a Porsche you know.
Me: (bored) really?
Him: I'm getting another one next week. I'll have two Porsches then.
Me: Oh that's nice. Do you like reading? What sort of books do you like?
Him: I don't like books. I only read 'Porsche' Magazine.
Me: This isn't going to work.
Him: Would you fancy me more if it was a Ferrari?


<sweeping generalisation> If men don't want to be trophy catches they shouldn't dangle their assets like a prize </sweeping generalisation>

[theone]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Ha Ha - reminds me of my 'if anyone asks me for a date I'll accept' policy (which I soon revised)

Conversation went like this:

Him: I've got a Porsche you know.
Me: (bored) really?
Him: I'm getting another one next week. I'll have two Porsches then.
Me: Oh that's nice. Do you like reading? What sort of books do you like?
Him: I don't like books. I only read 'Porsche' Magazine.
Me: This isn't going to work.
Him: Would you fancy me more if it was a Ferrari?


<sweeping generalisation> If men don't want to be trophy catches they shouldn't dangle their assets like a prize </sweeping generalisation>

Lol there is no way thats a real conversation , thats utter rubbish.
I think the point the original post was making was that you need money to make money .

so to speak.

but the way it was written was from the wrong angle , i could re write it but cant be bothered .

women are great , strict and brutal in terms of choosing a man though and most times not that quick to forgive and forget.

for me being ( 100% straight) if you mess up all i need is an im sorry a puppy dog look and a blow-job.

sorry for the bluntness but it is what it is .

[Holistic Star]

I swear - God's honest truth that was a date I went on. He went on and on about Porsches trying to impress me and he did tell me he only read Porsche magazine when I asked him what books he read. He had no conversation what so ever. It was like he thought the only way I could possibly be interested in him was because he had cash to spend on 2 expensive cars.

(I missed out the bit where he tried to jump me at the end of the date. And the fact he stroked the car seat after he dropped me home saying he'd enjoyed having a girl sit in it - blurghhh, still makes me feel queasy even now!)


He wasn't the only one who tried to impress me with possessions. I tried internet dating and a couple of guys just talked about their posessions. When I told them I wasn't interested in what they owned, I wanted to know what more about them as a person - they just talked about more possessions. (Cars, stereos etc). In fact one guy said 'It's great you're not a gold-digger' and then still carried on talking about swopping his saab for a sporty bmw or something.

Maybe I was just making a series of duff dating choices, but there are a lot of guys out there that felt the need to display their wadge of cash thinking it would get the girl.

[NotesMaeve]

^ Agreed. I've had men pull similar crap about their Bimmers/boats/whatever, and they tried very hard in the same spirit not to seem "nerdy."

[JonB07]

Originally Posted by NotesMaeve

^ Agreed. I've had men pull similar crap about their Bimmers/boats/whatever, and they tried very hard in the same spirit not to seem "nerdy."

Men pull similar crap because it works on SOME women and they think it works on all women