Sexual Incompatibility

[striving4peace]

I'm a virgin, and I couldn't find much information on the net about this. But this question goes out to everyone -from married people who have only slept with each other, to PUA's:

How real is the problem of sexual incompatibility? Is it something you can always overcome with communication and improvement? Or are there instances when it's completely futile, beyond hope?

[NotesMaeve]

Very real problem. Both partners have to be 100% honest about likes and dislikes, and yes, there are instances where it's unfixable, usually when one or both (or all, heh) are unwilling to renegotiate.

I had a partner who simply would not discuss sex. He would only use one position and he would not talk during sex. As I told him, if we can't discuss it, then it can't get better, and I wasn't happy...

I recommend just being sexually open. Date people you like, and when you feel like you trust and know the person, then test the goods. Decide how important sex is to you, and ask the other person how much it matters to them. If your libidos or sexual styles aren't close, then the relationship has to be worked on.

Why are you asking? Are you afraid of something?

[striving4peace]

well, I think you missed my first line in that post there
I've been abstaining from pre-marital sex. But I've been very open about sex and have also tried to get as much information/educated as I can at this point, and plan to enjoy a very healthy sexual relationship once I begin it.

But obviously, not having the advantage of test driving the car befoe you buy it can be a risk. So I'm gathering information.

[cdn2wheeler]

Striving, I applaud your fortitude in remaining celibate before marriage. That takes a strength of character that's worthy of praise.

That said, though, I personally don't think it's a particularly smart idea.

Physical intimacy is a HUGE component of a relationship. Sure, people may say stuff about "best friends" and "he's/she's always there for me" and all the rest, somehow diminishing the importance of sex in a relationship, but the fact is that when physical intimacy disappears, it's highly likely that the relationship will crumble.

And if you don't know what your compatibility factors are going in to a marriage, then you may be in for an unfortunate surprise.

Stats on this sort of thing are hard to come by, but there seems to be evidence that those who chose to remain celibate before marriage separate and divorce at about the same rate as the rest of us pagans.

Is your choice a spiritual one? A health concern? Family pressures?

[NotesMaeve]

Originally Posted by striving4peace

well, I think you missed my first line in that post there
I've been abstaining from pre-marital sex. But I've been very open about sex and have also tried to get as much information/educated as I can at this point, and plan to enjoy a very healthy sexual relationship once I begin it.

But obviously, not having the advantage of test driving the car befoe you buy it can be a risk. So I'm gathering information.

Oh, the kitten has claws! I read it. You said:

I'm a virgin, and I couldn't find much information on the net about this.

I don't assume your motivations for being a virgin or that you're intentionally abstaining. Not on Steve's site, fo' sho'.

While a lot of marriages seem to thrive starting out like that, just remember that it's a crapshoot how sexually compatible you and your partner would be. Personally, that'd be a killer for me on my wedding night if I discovered there was some sexual problem. You'll have to be super honest with your partner and she or he will have to be super honest with you, and keep in mind sex gets MUCH better over time. Don't get scared off it by the first time. The problem with starting to be sexually active within the constraints of marriage, especially for the woman, is that there's an expectation for a fair amount of sex. If she's got a bruised cervix and a sexually frustrated husband, this can't end well! Numbing cream may be your friend.

[striving4peace]

@cdn2:
Thanks for the kudos on the fortitude. It does get difficult at times.
And I do believe sex is good (not the root of evil), that it is a huge part of making a relationship work, and that a good sexual relationship (and even the non-sexual part) requires absolutely clear, smooth and open communication.
I abstained because of two reasons: spiritual - and because I wanted to have sex with someone I love, and the majority of my life so far involved a love that was mostly unrequited. Though I am seriously looking out for a fresh start and a new long term relationship, I am looking at whether the abstinence will damage my prospects at a successful one. That being said, my alternatives at this point untill the relationships will be casual hook-ups, which is a choice I won't easily make.

@maeve
I didn't get the joke about the kitten having claws? sorry
(and I didn't understand the part about motivation for intentionally abstaining either - For the record, I did intentionally abstain, whether that was a stupid thing to do or not)
What I meant was I couldn't find information on sexual incompatibility, other than just tips on how to overcome it. Not much statistics, and no psycological or physiological studies results.

And with regards to the wedding night and starting the sex, I don't mind being super honest it's actually how I prefer to be, I'm more worried about getting her to be super honest, but I hope to sort the honesty / communication part before marraige itself.

{And after holding out for so long, I don't mind taking it slow in the beginning untill she is comfy enough to ask for more I do want to make it MUCH better and I want to see what I can do to get there }

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by striving4peace

How real is the problem of sexual incompatibility? Is it something you can always overcome with communication and improvement?

My answer: NO, you cannot always overcome it. That's true for me, I don't know about others. But I could not have sex with anyone.

First there are people I am not sexually attracted to. Even if I find them beautiful, cute, charming, ... everything, sex would be impossible. Hormones? dunno.

Then there are people I am sexually attracted too, but then, when we try it, the characters are too different. For instance imagine the one loves very tender, romantical sex, in the bed, with kissing and stroking... and the other one wants some wild sex on the floor or on the kitchen table, with a lot of dirty talking, toys and bondage games. I mean, imagine they want that not only once, but as a general tendency. Having sex together would be a major turn-off for both of them. And how do you want to fix such a problem with communication and improvement?? The one will always be frustrated and the other one bored, no matter how much both try to be what they are not...

Last but not least there are very physical incompatibilities (incompatible sizes of sexual organs for instance) that can make having sex together unpleasant or even painful.

[striving4peace]

Well, I would agree with the "having sex with someone you're not attracted to". Man, I wouldn't want to ever marry or have sex with someone I'm not physically attracted to, and I do think that's a big part of who you choose to be with (and it's also important to maintain yourself to attract your partner too)

Regarding the difference in character, has there been a case where the personalities outside the bedroom were in exact sync, but only when it came to sexual preferences were different? - like the tender versus rough?

And regarding sexual organs, this is one thing I have managed to find in medical coloumns of people asking for advice, apparently this is something people can do something about. Apparently it is like Nigel powers says "it's not the size, it's how you use it"?
Anyways I need to research on what to do if the vagina's too small and it hurts her, or it's too big and she doesn't get satisfied. Anybody else have this problem?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by striving4peace

Regarding the difference in character, has there been a case where the personalities outside the bedroom were in exact sync, but only when it came to sexual preferences were different? - like the tender versus rough?

Well yes. Maybe I should be able to predict those things, but I'm not. Some men are like rough pirats, and then in the bedroom they're sentimental, cuddly teddy baers... Sometimes I thought "oh great, what a hot temper!" and then it was just plain boring. Others behave very rationally and reasonably when you see them, but when you reach the bedroom they suddenly switch off their brain and emerge as passionate sex beasts... or they pull out some handcuffs.

Sometimes the personalities outside the bedroom are in exact sync, but not inside the bedroom. Sometimes the personalities inside the bedroom are in exact sync, but not outside. My experience: you never know.

Originally Posted by striving4peace

And regarding sexual organs, this is one thing I have managed to find in medical coloumns of people asking for advice, apparently this is something people can do something about. Apparently it is like Nigel powers says "it's not the size, it's how you use it"?

Well sometimes you cannot do anything about it! If the penis is too large (more precisely, too long), THAT HURTS!!! Of course you can be careful, but that's frustrating isn't it?

[Ilya]

Hi, striving4peace.
This is a hard question to answer. Not because it is hard, but because to answer it one need to be very open. Well, I guess this thread will get buried after all.
I'm no PUA and I'm no Carrie Bradshow, but I've known good sex before marriage. During marriage I was fair to my wife. So I can tell from two sides.
When I've met my future wife and we've started dating, it turned out she was still a virgin. Before that I've more then once was unknowingly attracted to virgins and had a few bitter disappointments. You know, in my country, when you meet a virgin who is over 16 she usually has no experience with intimate relationships. Any of it. No petting, no oral sex, even kissing is inexperienced. I have to teach them. And here is problem number one. If both partners are inexperienced, the chances that they will learn as they go are slim. This usually means little fun for the girl. The nature was kinder to the guys in this respect.
So in my early years several times we've broke up with girls and they stayed virgins. Mostly because I was not ready to take responsibility to teach them.
By the time I've met my future wife, I was ready to try. I've learned the ropes, and I was in love. This helps.

Well. That was not easy. Turns out that sexual adaptation for girls is a hell of a complex process. And it is a long one. We are talking months and years.
There are some surprising things going on. First of all, she gains weight and her body starts to change. Hips become wider, the face changes in a certain way, the voice, the way she walks and so on. I'm not fond of anorexic supermodels and I don't think that women should starve themselves to some abstract ideal of beauty. I'm just saying that she went for a couple of weeks trip after we've had sex for the first times and when she came back, I didn't recognize her at first. Most of the features I was physically attracted to (ahem) have changed beyond recognition. Physical attraction was not the only attraction I've had, I was in love so I've adjusted ok, but it was a nasty surprise.
Then there is a multitude of different problems below the waste. At the start of active sexual life girls start to get all sorts of infections. No STDs, just some flora and bacterias getting all excited. Sometimes it goes unnoticed, sometimes it hurts like hell and required a course of antibiotics with "no sex before it is cured" written on it. Add these little traumas, stretching and bruising, during physical adjustment down there.
Then there is an emotional level. She may cry every time you have sex. And the tears do not really look like the tears of happiness. And you have to guess if something is wrong or is it just the hormones overload. I know some girls laugh their head off during sex. I don't know if it is any better.
Speaking of hormones... At first, the only time my fiancee genuinely wanted sex is right before her period. That was the only day when the hormone level was high enough for her to become horny. Once a month was her appetite. I was 20 and I wouldn't mind having sex three times a day. So most of the time the initiative was mine and I had to warm her up to the idea of having sex.
Now I know it were hormones. At the time I was wondering if she loves me or finds me attractive. That is the closest to sexual incompatibility I've experienced.
All above combined created a very frustrating and difficult situation for both of us. You know, there are books on sex later in marriage and it talks about routine, boredom and so on. We've had this from the get go.

So, incompatibility can happen and on many different levels. We've managed to overcome these problems. However it took all my skills of self control, all my psychology training to keep a positive outlook. Still it took us about 5 years before the situation started to improve. In fact we were not married all this time. I've just behaved as a husband supposed to behave. Not that girls take that for anything without the wedding

I guess, it could have been done faster. We could have went to therapy. I could have been more insisting to have sex just for practice sake. Many "coulds" here. I was how it was and now it is all good and will become better.
I can imagine that the average man would have either break up or have a multitude of affairs in this situation. I'm no saint, and I've thought about it more then once. But as main character of "Highway 60" once said - "thinking about it yes, doing it - no"

So, I'd say, if sex life is important for one of the partners you better try it before the wedding. It's hard to anticipate all problems.

Unfortunately from the moral point of view, the efficient strategy to learn sex is to have sex and preferably with different partners. This way you learn to tell the bad from the good, to identify when you are the problem and when the partner is and what is the problem. However, I understand that what I'm suggesting borders with being promiscuous and is not acceptable for some.

Learning from books and forums is helpful to an extent. I find that the people tend to be untruthful when writing about their sexual experience. Plus, sex is physical, it is very hard to explain it with words. I've tried to be very sincere in this post, but I'm afraid you've got a very vague idea how hard, but at the same time not hopeless can it all be.

Well, if you are sure that your love is strong enough, you can try "marriage first" approach. But be responsible and realistic that if something goes wrong, the marriage is unlikely to last. And yes, it is the man who is likely to be the bastard and quit. Please, be honest with yourself and don't hold it just against him.

[Angela]

I think at least half of sexual compatibility is actually mental compatibility.

There aren't too many "sexual incompatibilities" that can't be harmonized by communication, and one problem is that shame and "privacy" and religious training keeps people from opening their mouths (so to speak ). One or both partners could go for years without being completely satisfied or as excited as they'd like to be, just because they're too embarrased to bring it up (again, so to speak... d'oh, stop!) It can take a lot of courage and practice to stay in communication when it comes to intimacy (see, I held back that time.)

The other BIG part really is built-in physical stuff, though, and it would be a shame not to find out about that till the wedding night. If you don't love the way your partner smells, for instance, forget about it. That might be a friendship, but it's not much of a marriage. Don't waste your time. Also, I believe that a woman must love a man's penis to really love the man. I think if she doesn't treasure it and want to be near it as often as possible, especially if she's repulsed by it, a romantic relationship will never be ideal, to say the least!

I think if you're waiting till your wedding night, it would be an excellent idea to at least do some heavy messing around so you make sure a) you love the way each other smells and b) you fall in love with each others' bodies. Then in neutral moments (not during the make-out session!) also practice having explicit conversations about what turns you on & off, fantasies, must-haves and can't-stands regarding sex and intimacy. If you find your partner refuses to talk about it, you've got a problem and might want to consult a therapist together before you get married.

Sex talk in the morning! I love it.

[striving4peace]

@Ilya
wow, thanks for the details. I read your story thrice. But I'm not sure what message to take from it as far as my strategy is concerned. What was the lesson learnt by you: experience fom premarital sex helped you get your fiance' / wife's through sexual problem and the incompatibility?

@Angela,
hey, sex talk anytime is interesting
There is no girl in the picture yet. But I definately plan to use your tips before the wedding night.

{Aside from the original topic, I'm just really wondering after all these years of abstaining, on whether to let go of those religious beliefs (against pe-marital sex) and aspiration (of having sex only with someone I love) to have casual sex if it'll counter the pain of an uncurable sexual incompatibility. Nothing sounds worse to a virgin than reaching that finish line and it turns out to be a nightmare after so much faith, discipline and effort}

[Jennihul]

If sex is important to you, even though you have not experienced it, it seems like it is....do not enter into marriage lightly without knowing your partner's ideals.

I could write a book about sexual incompatibility, partly from my own experiences but mainly from listening to friends lament. In fact, I probably will.

My opinion on the number one sexual problem in the world: some women have a hidden, unknown hormone that, once they have kids, kicks in and makes them crave celibacy and motherhood over sexuality and wifehood. I truly think it's one of the biggest marriage killers and infidelity fuels in America.

Jennifer

[votoshka]

I think if there is love and attraction between two people, the risk of true sexual incompatibility would be minimal! (Well, I could be wrong about this so I'm open to debate )

Of course communication and experimentation are important in this! Obviously if you or your partner can't communicate your likes and dislikes, then there may be problems.

Sure, some people may be more sexually compatible from the get-go than others, but I think that most people who really do love and value their partner can eventually work it out!

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by striving4peace

Aside from the original topic, I'm just really wondering after all these years of abstaining, on whether to let go of those religious beliefs (against pe-marital sex) and aspiration (of having sex only with someone I love) to have casual sex if it'll counter the pain of an uncurable sexual incompatibility. Nothing sounds worse to a virgin than reaching that finish line and it turns out to be a nightmare after so much faith, discipline and effort

I can understand how your beliefs and aspirations are challenged by worries about sexual incompatibility, but don't base your decision on the fear of that alone. You have to stay true to your character.

I don't share your religious beliefs, but the 'only have sex with someone I love' aspiration I do share and I feel it is one of those traits that really define who I am.

[striving4peace]

Thanks Jim. I think that post really summed up the way forward for me

[JimOfferman]

You are more than welcome! Glad I could help!

[CBlokland]

This isn't something you can learn about from books. Neither is it something you can discuss and compromise around... there will always be resentment.

My opinion is that you are delluding yourself and taking a big risk if you think that you can work it out 'on the night'.

[striving4peace]

@CBlokland
I don't expect to work it out 'on the night'. Yes, books and discussion and thinking can only prepare you so much, and yes I know that the wedding night itself may not go as great - and I am aware of that. However I'm willing to put a lot of effort into honing my sex life once it begins.
The sexual compatibility fear is acknowledging the risk that even the efforts for improvement may fall short. But then I haven't met too many people who regret abstaining till marraige, rather I have talked to many people who believe it was worth it.

[Jim11]

I'm sure if you find a nice woman who is an open communicator you will be fine. Don't worry about it..

[Michael Chui]

If you and your eventual partner agree that you're sexually incompatible,

Then consider allowing each other to have casual sex with others, or agree that divorce is an option if it becomes too much of a problem.

Don't make marriage the seal on a tomb.

[striving4peace]

@Jim11
yeah, I think so too. I'm going to make sure I have extremely clear and comfortable lines of communication before I marry someone

@michael Chui
Yeah, if it does come to that, then divorce will be the absolute last resort. I don't think swinging is easy to agree on in a marraige... sorta defies the point of marraige if you ask me

[Doku]

Actually, if you are worried about sexual incompatibility, being a virgin until marriage is likely the best thing. That way you won't have any clue if it is good or bad, it will just be what it is.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by striving4peace

@michael Chui
Yeah, if it does come to that, then divorce will be the absolute last resort. I don't think swinging is easy to agree on in a marraige... sorta defies the point of marraige if you ask me

That depends on what you think the point of marriage is. I won't get into that unless you want me to, since it's off-topic and it's been discussed a couple of times before in this forum.

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by Doku

Actually, if you are worried about sexual incompatibility, being a virgin until marriage is likely the best thing. That way you won't have any clue if it is good or bad, it will just be what it is.

You're kidding, right?

Sexual intimacy is a foundational requirement in a marriage. Going into it without being informed of your partner's needs, desires, wants and turn-offs is a recipe for disaster.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by cdn2wheeler

Sexual intimacy is a foundational requirement in a marriage.

Only if your marriage is about mutual exploration of love for the other person. There are plenty of reasons to marry beside that.

[Doku]

Originally Posted by cdn2wheeler

You're kidding, right?

Sexual intimacy is a foundational requirement in a marriage. Going into it without being informed of your partner's needs, desires, wants and turn-offs is a recipe for disaster.

That's kinda my point. (forgot to put the /sarcasm in the original post.)

[striving4peace]

@michael Chui
I actually did read some of those threads on marraige (and divorce). It's a tough debate, I don't think there's a right and wrong when it comes to people's view on marraige. What it is to them, is how they choose to see it.
@Doku
Sorry, but I don't think you need to turn to sarcasm to show your apathy. I'm open to a peaceful and civil discussion on the matter.
@Cdn2Wheeler
I agree with you. But do you think that it's not something you can resolve by talking about before hand?

I'm really curious about what happens to people who fall in love. Falling in Love is not subject to checking for sexual compatibility, right? Yet people in today's world marry (or become live-in partners) for love, not sexual compatibility. There's even the minority that fall in love and then have sex after marraige. How is it that many of these people manage to go on to a lifetime of a happy marraige?
I'm beginning to wonder if this is the reason in todays dating world, sex tends to come first and then love. But then that could be hormones as opposed to checking for sexual compatibility.
Also am wondering if most people are too insecure to mention sexual incompatibility as reason for break-ups because they don't want people, specifically future partners to know that there might certain boundaries on the kind of sex they can have... Because either I've been not looking for it, or I just don't hear too many cases of sexual incompatibility being the cause of a split.

[Michael Chui]

Quite simple: because sex isn't the foundation of any relationship. It's a supplement, and often a very powerful factor, but after ten, twenty, thirty years...

There's seriously only so much variety, especially in a monogamous relationship.

The reason that sex comes before marriage in today's world isn't because of a need for compatibility. It's because people no longer vilify sex as a necessary evil. So as long as there are no real consequences beyond losing your virginity (which is nil for a male), there's a strong sense of "Why not?" regarding sex, especially since its taboo nature has lifted it up into a kind of veneration.

Beyond that, just about every human being on the planet has a sex drive, and delaying it for marriage is, as cdn2wheeler said, a show of fortitude and character that is worthy of praise. With no reason to bite back on the instinct, people will try it out, and if they like it, go back for more.

But I think you're wrong to say that sex comes before love. It's more accurate, I think, to say that people are more willing to love more people, and that people are more willing to put a stop to the relationship when they stop loving.

Most people are sexually compatible, because the essence of sex is fairly simple, straightforward, and universal. We're all homo sapiens, and we're all built to make more homo sapiens. Two people can be friends and love each other without having sex. Or they can have sex, too.

Your wedding ring doesn't need to have a diamond on it. But it's nice. If two people love each other, they'll love each other despite any sexual incompatibility. Sex, at the end of the day, is really overrated.

[striving4peace]

That's a good summarisation.
And I meant, today a lot of people have sex by the third or fourth date, where obviously the people aren't in love with each other. i.e. chronologically sex comes before love